Harbs have had the Mahalla quest as part of GR1 advancement for years now, and @Eliron put a good deal of work into bolstering the mythos of the guild around what Krik has to say. It's an easy enough quest that it can be done by lowbies, but it involves a logic puzzle and potential for a horrible death at the hands of angry beetles.
The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure pure reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog!
One thing I hope for if/when these societies are implemented instead of the guilds is that the leadup to this happening gives us a chance to make the societies our own idea. By that, what I mean is that when the event-time rolls around and the guilds disappear, don't let it be the sudden removal of the guilds due to some crazy murder supermob destroying them all. Put an emphasis on how the societies are the evolution of guilds. A passage going from one system and onto another. Give us a natural evolution to put emphasis on. Something that lets the world and the players know that they have control over their own organizations. I think it'll go a long way to ease any frustrations at having your guild nuked.
Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
Yeah, it's a bit of a difficult one. One option is that players could check the books out before they leave and create their own libraries to store them in.
The other option could also be an rp event for the new factions where they recover some of the books, the admin would be able to access them and they could hand over books that are appropriate.
There are things that some of us have been (albeit lazily and almost not for some time) working on developing and that would be lost if not entirely wasted with the changes. Obviously not everything can be salvaged, and loss is going to hurt everyone on some level or another. But the libraries, and the denizens in the guildhalls. There needs to be a way to salvage them and have them be meaningful in the new factions. I feel, really heartbroken at the prospect of MD losing some of that. I know I know, not MD anymore, but I -know- it there for others if they want it and I would love to tie Nihi and MD together in some way or another and there were other plans and...just not the libraries! Think of the books!
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EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
They've already said that they aren't just going to delete everything and replace it with the new system after yelling "SURPRISE!" They're going to make it a meaningful transition that saves and honours as much of the existing guild lore as possible.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
If you had actually spoken to me in-game as @Marcella DID, you would know that I 'wasn't helping' because a) Sakaki doesn't have appropriate training in Aethercraft and I knew I would not be able to hang around because I had to take my uncle to a doctors appointment. I have stated numerous times in other threads that RL will always come first and I will not drop everything or postpone imminent commitments just because a revolt or flare has occurred.
Kiss of the Enchantress hisses eerily, "Let them fear, and despair."
All I am saying, is that maybe we can also focus on the more substantially important aspects. Ideas for transferring information, and what to do with the guildhalls/libraries/rituals/quests/whatever else I am missing. You all have such creative idea, I'd just like to see something other than, let's call it this!
If you had actually spoken to me in-game as @Marcella DID, you would know that I 'wasn't helping' because a) Sakaki doesn't have appropriate training in Aethercraft and I knew I would not be able to hang around because I had to take my uncle to a doctors appointment. I have stated numerous times in other threads that RL will always come first and I will not drop everything or postpone imminent commitments just because a revolt or flare has occurred.
Whoa, whoa. Calm down, sunshine. I didn't speak to you in-game because I didn't see it in-game. I didn't see it in-game because I wasn't logged in at the time. I only saw the post here. Calm your moobs.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
If factions come to fruition, one of the Mag ones should just be the Ur'Guard.
Why? Because Ur'Guard are the best, clearly. The guild has often been nearly half of the entire city's active population for the game's duration (certainly more than a third), anyway.
I just hope whatever the starting names are can be re-named and left customizable, because, quite naturally, we're going to burn one of them to the ground and call it Ur'Guard anyway.
Just a random thought while I'm doing something else. There's no reason why the coalitions have to be tied to anything per se. In Magnagora, for example, we could name the three coalitions:
Infernal Aristocrats (short name Aristocrats)
Machina Maximus (short name Machina)
Masters of Nil (short name Masters)
Would certain classes or RP styles be concentrated in any of these coalitions? Perhaps, but the point is that coalitions would constantly evolve through the player members as the histories of the coalitions develop over time. If the coalitions start as relatively blank states, it would truly be the players who determine ultimately what they become.
Re: Masters of Nil
Two second thought
I'd just stick with the old name Nihilists honestly.
Ur'guard is perhaps thee most distinguished guild in the game, with one of the biggest lore backings and involvements. I dont think any other guild has an involvement in the histories as big as the Ur'guard (seeing as how they are the descendants of the Ur'guard from the vernal era). They even have their own area, Shallach, that is connected to their history. I honestly would not be surprised, or upset, if they were made to be their own coalition.
The Ur'guard are warriors of undeath as is, it is even in their name and function. It would make sense to simply make them the military group. Midnight Legion is nice, but we could always simply shove it all into Ur'guard.
I thought the coalitions weren't going to just be 'Hey, we're this guild, but now you can be other classes'.
Also, this is no where near set in stone and we already having people threatening to burn things to the ground if they don't get X? Really?
Technically in this scenario, we'd be remaking the Ur'guard to be the warriors of undeath, and not "the ur'guard class'". Truth be told, the ancient ur'guard werent focused on just being warriors swinging swords around. They focused on undeath and the powers in it. If you ever visit Shallach and catacombs, and are brave enough to hit one of the leaders, you can see that they have much more to them than 'swinging a sword'.
I thought the coalitions weren't going to just be 'Hey, we're this guild, but now you can be other classes'.
Also, this is no where near set in stone and we already having people threatening to burn things to the ground if they don't get X? Really?
I was attempting to be cheeky as hopefully picked up by the previous comment, but if you read that as "ARGH HATE DIS NOOO BURN TO DA GROUND" in a threatening tone then I am sorry you perceived it in a way I was not intending.
All I am saying, is that maybe we can also focus on the more substantially important aspects. Ideas for transferring information, and what to do with the guildhalls/libraries/rituals/quests/whatever else I am missing. You all have such creative idea, I'd just like to see something other than, let's call it this!
For me I'm mostly holding back on too many plans. If I was left to it I'd probably have a factional structure mostly written up already (as opposed to getting close to such in my head). It's also different for everyone.
As I've said, I think most of the guild purchased stuff (halls/quests/mechanical rituals) would be nice to stay with the hall as a class thing because it'd just be nice for class rp. Some space that people with the same skills can access.
For information type stuff that would need to be passed from a guild to a faction, that's mostly up to players but I think that's actually one thing that, if it's considered valuable, we won't have to worry too much about because the players will make sure it's saved. Though specific books could be recovered even if the players don't manage to do this, as long as the admin don't delete the libraries which I doubt they would.
Though there's also a level of stuff that can't come over to enable the factions to form their own identity. The flame of the Ancestors is something that I imagine should stay in the Hall of the Ancestors, for example. Similarly, the way that people commune with Mother Moon and the White Hart might change a bit because you aren't Her wiccans or His druids any more. The implements chosen to contact entities should also reflect the people trying to contact them, more... refined practitioners may use forged chalices and swords, where more wild types might use bowls and staves made from fallen bark and wood with only a little shaping on the users part.
Ok, cool. That's fine then. I apologise for misunderstanding.
I was thinking of one of the coalitions being undeath-based, merging stuff from the ur'Guard with the some of the Nihilists who emphasise Necromancy over Nihilism, and some of the Cacophany can join in under the idea that, if you have a guild full of undead, it would be a good idea to have people that power them up. Am I right in saying the ur'Guard came to Mag because the Nihilists could do necromancy after the taint (taught by the demon lords?)
The thing is, if you go and call the undeath-coalition the ur'Guard, it's sounds like people are going 'This coalition is actually just the ur'Guard only' which leaves out the possibility of members of other guilds coming in and contributing things.
hmm, I see what you mean, it could definitely confuse newcommers that assume it is for ur'guard only.
Perhaps a mix then. We keep the orclach use of undead of 'Ur' with something else. Maybe Ur'lords? (Though I think Urlach may have been a literal translations to Master of the Dead....not sure)
Ur'Guard literally translates as "warriors of the dead."
Warrior can just evolve into a classless term. Tada.
Warrior is the term for the Archetype of all warriors, like how Guardian is for nihilists/celestines/etc.
At first I was thinking how the name of the guild (ur'guard) would be a copy of the class...until I realized that there technically will no longer be Ur'guards, Paladins, Sentinels (class) etc. with this change. They'll simply be Warriors with a ritual spec, which in truth was always the case. The advantage of the flexibility of the warrior archetype, made it that their guilds represented a cause (power in undead, protecting the light, etc.) rather than the class itself (Nihilists for Nihilists).
So in conclusion, yeah, definitely wont be a problem...though I still think Ur'lords sounds cool
@Qistrel The ur'Guard are the military of Magnagora these days, too. Basically in the coalition world, yes, @Ixion is right, I will absolutely be burning something down as quickly as I get the chance and recreating the strict militant atmosphere and rich (re: best in the game) lore of the ur'Guard.
Then every warrior/mage/guardian/druid/wiccan guild is an inextricable part of the lore and RP of the game, and it'll end up just being those five classes' guilds in the new thing. Which, as has been said a few times already, just means drop bard/monk guilds, release classflex restrictions.
Yeah, like I'm willing to bet that most people are in their guilds because they think they're the best. Everyone would be losing something but in exchange we're evolving into something that ultimately is better. So I'm not sure why one guild should have special snowflake status just because... wow the people that play there happen to like playing there?
EDIT: Also the assertions that your guild is the "best in the game" as one of the reasons for this snowflake treatment are pretty gross and discounts the amazing amount of work that people have put into their guilds over the years the game has been around. First and foremost in my mind being the Serenguard.
Im not part of the Ur'guard, and I am saying they are the best, simply by the facts. They have the strongest lore and involvement, and are part of the history of the game (the ur'guard themselves, not the guild). It is why I am saying that it wouldnt be too much of a longshot for Ur'guard to be a coalition themselves.
The other guilds really cant compare. The only ones I can think of are maybe Illuminati, but a lot of their backlog is supposedly hidden, so I cant really attest there.
A reason why a lot of guilds need offing is from how unpopular they are as a theme (alongside the sheer number). I would be pretty surprised if a guild like Shofangi for example was to cause a ruckus saying they are one of the best and need to stay
Yeah, like I'm willing to bet that most people are in their guilds because they think they're the best. Everyone would be losing something but in exchange we're evolving into something that ultimately is better. So I'm not sure why one guild should have special snowflake status just because... wow the people that play there happen to like playing there?
EDIT: Also the assertions that your guild is the "best in the game" as one of the reasons for this snowflake treatment are pretty gross and discounts the amazing amount of work that people have put into their guilds over the years the game has been around. First and foremost in my mind being the Serenguard.
Evolving into something better: Yes. The warrior/mage/guardian/druid/wiccan guilds being able to take in the people/what little lore there is of the bard/monk guilds, and growing into something else. Off the top of my head, for the ur'Guard, that would mean warriors: the soldiers, mages: engineers or something, guardians: the Chaplains, monks: special forces, bards: morale officers or something. And then just do something like that for the other guilds to incorporate other classes. The ur'Guard are only going to still be around because despite them being the warrior guild for Magnagora, we're also the actual IC military branch of the city, so it's less 'our guild stays' and more 'our guild becomes more a part of the city than it already is.'
The ur'Guard are the best: See above.
Serenguard: I already said that warrior/mage/guardian/druid/wiccans are the guilds that have the most RP and lore in them, I'm really not sure what you mean here. Dropping bard/monks just makes less organizations, and the bits and pieces of RP and lore some of them might have can just be layered on to the existing organizations pretty easily.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
edited December 2015
Mag is basically Texas. Cool, sure, but they don't get out much and think everything Texas is the best. Texas shaped waffle? Obviously the best. Texas sports team? PSHH. BEST. No one loves Texas more than Texas.
edit: I was part of the Ur'guard once upon a time. I've been part of like 12 guilds at one point or another. My Favorite lore wise, both admin and player build, is still the SDs. It's all perspective, Ur'Guard certainly have a very strong sense of identity, but arguing over who is "best" (in the serious sense, not in the mock sense Ixion was doing) is really stupid. You can't take a subjective topic like "best guild," or "favorite type of tomato" and justify it with "just the facts." That's entirely contradictory.
Many guilds are great. Some are kind of boring. What that means for each person is different. Almost all have deep ties with game history and lore.
Comments
The plinths? No, that isn't a Symphonium thing. It's a blanket Hallifaxian history thing.
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The other option could also be an rp event for the new factions where they recover some of the books, the admin would be able to access them and they could hand over books that are appropriate.
Why? Because Ur'Guard are the best, clearly. The guild has often been nearly half of the entire city's active population for the game's duration (certainly more than a third), anyway.
I just hope whatever the starting names are can be re-named and left customizable, because, quite naturally, we're going to burn one of them to the ground and call it Ur'Guard anyway.
Shar Angarok.
The Ur'guard are warriors of undeath as is, it is even in their name and function. It would make sense to simply make them the military group. Midnight Legion is nice, but we could always simply shove it all into Ur'guard.
Also, this is no where near set in stone and we already having people threatening to burn things to the ground if they don't get X? Really?
Technically in this scenario, we'd be remaking the Ur'guard to be the warriors of undeath, and not "the ur'guard class'". Truth be told, the ancient ur'guard werent focused on just being warriors swinging swords around. They focused on undeath and the powers in it. If you ever visit Shallach and catacombs, and are brave enough to hit one of the leaders, you can see that they have much more to them than 'swinging a sword'.
As I've said, I think most of the guild purchased stuff (halls/quests/mechanical rituals) would be nice to stay with the hall as a class thing because it'd just be nice for class rp. Some space that people with the same skills can access.
For information type stuff that would need to be passed from a guild to a faction, that's mostly up to players but I think that's actually one thing that, if it's considered valuable, we won't have to worry too much about because the players will make sure it's saved. Though specific books could be recovered even if the players don't manage to do this, as long as the admin don't delete the libraries which I doubt they would.
Though there's also a level of stuff that can't come over to enable the factions to form their own identity. The flame of the Ancestors is something that I imagine should stay in the Hall of the Ancestors, for example. Similarly, the way that people commune with Mother Moon and the White Hart might change a bit because you aren't Her wiccans or His druids any more.
The implements chosen to contact entities should also reflect the people trying to contact them, more... refined practitioners may use forged chalices and swords, where more wild types might use bowls and staves made from fallen bark and wood with only a little shaping on the users part.
I was thinking of one of the coalitions being undeath-based, merging stuff from the ur'Guard with the some of the Nihilists who emphasise Necromancy over Nihilism, and some of the Cacophany can join in under the idea that, if you have a guild full of undead, it would be a good idea to have people that power them up. Am I right in saying the ur'Guard came to Mag because the Nihilists could do necromancy after the taint (taught by the demon lords?)
The thing is, if you go and call the undeath-coalition the ur'Guard, it's sounds like people are going 'This coalition is actually just the ur'Guard only' which leaves out the possibility of members of other guilds coming in and contributing things.
Perhaps a mix then. We keep the orclach use of undead of 'Ur' with something else. Maybe Ur'lords? (Though I think Urlach may have been a literal translations to Master of the Dead....not sure)
Warrior can just evolve into a classless term. Tada.
Warrior is the term for the Archetype of all warriors, like how Guardian is for nihilists/celestines/etc.
At first I was thinking how the name of the guild (ur'guard) would be a copy of the class...until I realized that there technically will no longer be Ur'guards, Paladins, Sentinels (class) etc. with this change. They'll simply be Warriors with a ritual spec, which in truth was always the case. The advantage of the flexibility of the warrior archetype, made it that their guilds represented a cause (power in undead, protecting the light, etc.) rather than the class itself (Nihilists for Nihilists).
So in conclusion, yeah, definitely wont be a problem...though I still think Ur'lords sounds cool
The other guilds really cant compare. The only ones I can think of are maybe Illuminati, but a lot of their backlog is supposedly hidden, so I cant really attest there.
A reason why a lot of guilds need offing is from how unpopular they are as a theme (alongside the sheer number). I would be pretty surprised if a guild like Shofangi for example was to cause a ruckus saying they are one of the best and need to stay
The ur'Guard are the best: See above.
Serenguard: I already said that warrior/mage/guardian/druid/wiccans are the guilds that have the most RP and lore in them, I'm really not sure what you mean here. Dropping bard/monks just makes less organizations, and the bits and pieces of RP and lore some of them might have can just be layered on to the existing organizations pretty easily.