Conversely, maybe we should just add in a guild function that raises a person's guild rank immediately, rather than asking multiple people to favour someone to raise him/her to another rank. I guess I just don't understand why we want there to be less high-ranking guild members, going so far as to add in favour functionality that does not increase someone's rank, and reverting someone to a low rank after serving in guild leadership. Are there actually people who want to make guild advancement as difficult as possible?
Favouring is kinda awkward in its current state. The reason that I would like the lower tier favours is because then you can hand them out more often, you can say "hey you did something really cool and here's a favour for it" without having a comparison to the amount of effort involved in most systems to get a favour, the points still build up and get you to the same place but you can also give them out a bit more often so that advancement as a whole is easier.
Also, as far as I'm aware this is how the system currently works for the most part. The number of "points" is just related to the guild rank of the person favouring you, which in turn seems to lead to only guild leaders doing favouring.
Just raising someone's rank compared to this would be something that you wouldn't do that often, so I prefer regular positive reinforcement.
Regarding guild leaders, I'd hazard a guess and say that a large majority of guild leaders have done little personally in terms of guild advancement. Mostly because there have just been so many that got to gr3, got elected, and then guild advancement wasn't a thing they ever really needed to deal with after that because they had no need to raise their rank after that.
Not giving people top rank for being a previous guild leader adds emphasis to the achievement of having a high rank. I have way more respect for Astrasia (gr16 from memory) than most gr19's in the Hartstone because her rank is a reflection of her long standing dedication to the guild, while really... depending on some factors you could potentially have gr19 in under a month.
I just want faction rank to be something that you earn over time(though I agree with @Lerad that the scaling needs to be brought down so higher ranks are more feasible), I want to be able to have rewards tied into having a faction rank, I want to be able to look at someone's rank and be like "hey, that person is awesome and dedicated to the faction" rather than just being like "oh yeah they were a leader for five minutes I think"
Even if your system is one of demonstrated meritocracy instead of requirements somebody may or may not have even written, it takes an unholy length of time to achieve anyway. Has anybody ever reached 19 by merit? If you get up to 14 or 15, then later get elected, those bragging rights are now washed away by a GR19 people assume you didn't earn.
If it were to revert back to your original rank (not such a terrible thing), I wouldn't mind seeing a feature where any guildmember can favour or disfavour a leader accordingly. That's not anything that has an immediate effect other than a pat on the back, perhaps, but in a social game that's not nothing. And if you do a good job, especially over time, theoretically you're left higher than where you were.
Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
Even if your system is one of demonstrated meritocracy instead of requirements somebody may or may not have even written, it takes an unholy length of time to achieve anyway. Has anybody ever reached 19 by merit? If you get up to 14 or 15, then later get elected, those bragging rights are now washed away by a GR19 people assume you didn't earn.
If it were to revert back to your original rank (not such a terrible thing), I wouldn't mind seeing a feature where any guildmember can favour or disfavour a leader accordingly. That's not anything that has an immediate effect other than a pat on the back, perhaps, but in a social game that's not nothing. And if you do a good job, especially over time, theoretically you're left higher than where you were.
I posted at the end of my break but wanted to add pretty much this in while I was walking to work.
It's one of the nice things, like... I would totally be favouring Lleuke if I could fairly regularly for all sorts of things because it's a nice easy way of say "Thanks, you're awesome" and there's actually a benefit to it, as opposed to it being "wasted" now because "it doesn't do anything".
House rank is another thing I think Achaea got right. House leaders could use all the House privs on anyone, and distribute them among their customized leadership positions as needed, but their House rank increased slowly over time instead of jumping to 20 and staying there when they left office. So if you got elected, effed up royally, and immediately replaced, you'd return to your original rank, whereas if you did a good job for a long time, you might legitimately be HR20 at the end of your term. As far as I can recall, House favors and disfavors a from other members could affect the HL's "true" rank as usual (can't verify that, though, because I was a good HL and never got disfavored O:-) )
If you think that you understand nothing about the history of the Serenwilde.
Lets be honest here, Arcanis doesn't understand half of what he thinks he does.
You're giving him credit for half?
To counter a point he himself brought up: The Paladins are the same Paladins that were founded in the Celestine Empire, but their founding is so far back in history it's not even funny. Like, they founded the Paladins before Magnagora was a city, sometime after the Celestines were brought into existence.
Don't preach historical superiority where none exists.
Let's make something clear here, mr. I have no idea who you even are, I'll -rarely- quote something has historical, if I dont have the factual backing behind it. Lusternia Lore is a hobby of mine, because I enjoy the story, and there is a reason I do so well in quizes concerning it. So how about you back it up a bit here Lucy, and mull this over before posting that I am throwing incorrect facts up, mm?
You often bring up incorrect facts about lore, as has been pointed out often. Just because you say it does not make it true, and never will. You claim lore things that directly counter what the Admin say, you believe that there are more than 9 seals (with the rest out there waiting to be discovered), etc etc. You, sir, are no authority on Lusternian lore because you just make stuff up and assert it as fact.
So, how about dropping it as requested by the admin in this thread and discussing the topic at hand? Thank you.
I am an expert in the universe you see. I can tell you about the geography of the flat earth, the division of angels and devils, how astrology affects our humors and thus all mental illness can be explained, and I can pontificate for hours on the Aristotelian spheres and how the Earth is the center of the solar system.
Copernicus, who?
Would it be counter to the whole position-reduction thing to suggest we keep a councilmember/guildrunner split? One to run the guild, one to represent guild on council.
Or maybe something more like how the most prestigious families have a leader, and then also a ruling council member. So, the Guildmaster appoints the guild's council member, they could appoint themselves if they feel they can do both, or delegate to someone else?
I think the change can be done without losing too much of the guilds. In some cases, the balance between what goes/stays won't be perfect, but most elements can be split. There might be an issue with keeping some of the names, which could be confusing. However, once we let the old names slip, it becomes easier.
Example: The Serenguard has a rich lore, built up from the centaur tribes and traditions and involving three totem spirits beyond the great spirits. It would be perfectly logical to just allow any class to join, but due to confusion, I'd suggest reforming into the "Nintoba Tribe", through some event and threat, we'd likely take part in a great centaur ritual that would add Bull to the totems, bring in some spirit song in the ritual and rebrand most of the Serenguard as a faction, taking some shofangi elements, keeping the path of the Noyan within the tribe for example. Meanwhile, a faethorn crisis could require exploring lost ruins, and finding the Rituals of the Old Summer and Winter Courts and assuming their mantle (and ancient duties), while on Prime Trialante and Hart lead a ritual to awaken spirits, and eventually form a new faction as well. A slow migration, superceding and assimilating the guilds, rather than destroying them.
As to the Ur'guard, may I suggest The Heirs of Ur'Lach, it can include Ur'guard as a rank/path in the faction, while still absorbing a large part of the Ur'lach lore and continuing to be true as the inheritors of the original death cults. If a returning Ur'guard reawakens, instead of 'the Guild is gone', it becomes, "we've recognized our greater destiny as the children of Ur'lach and now all walks of life share in his gift of Undeath" The guild can transcend, blending other elements and keeping most of its own.
It gives me some ideas for Mag: The Heirs of Ur'lach (Undeath Faction); The Machina Maxima (machine/transformation faction), the Despondent Faith (Worship of the demon lords). Three different avenues for roleplay with room for all sorts of RP within each.
Thats alot of pages to go through and i don't have the time right now so I will simply say this... I don't like the idea of removing guilds at all. a huge amount of Lusternian history and Lore revolves around these guilds, not to mention roleplay. Getting rid of this will negate all the hard work people have put into their guilds. and from the little I did have time to read it sounds like bard/monks might be getting the short end of the stick. but the main reason I oppose this... is because the removal of guilds and transferring to houses is exactly why I left Achaea and came to Lusternia to begin with. Achaea got stupid after hte introduction of houses and just ruined the game. suddenly peopls characters had lost huge chunks of hteir identity and RP. everything was restructured, people who worked hard and had made it to the top of their guilds as a leader, were no longer leaders and the whole political process had to start from the beginning. they lost their entire identity and what made them special and unique... you could be any class and in any house basically and it just wasnt fun anymore... that wasn't the point of the lore and the culture of each guild and they lost ALL of that culture and history... none of it mattered anymore and it just plainly ruined the game... and that isnt the point in Lusternia either. I don't want to see it become as ridiculous and annoying as Achaea's house system is.. I'd have to quit playing Lusternia too and I don't want to, I like Lusternia and I don't want to have to go find some other game and spend 10 years learning the ins and outs of htat game like I have with Lusternia, not to mention the hundreds+ dollars I have spent on this game... that would all be wasted... thats why I came to Lusternia... it still cared about the culture in the game, it cared about the lore and the history and it cared about each guild being different and unique... I would be very sick and upset to see it turn into another Achaea....
@Nyxx - guild identity and lore is probably the most common 'against' point posted in this thread and it's been acknowledged by the admin as a major consideration when moving from 'guilds' to 'coalitions'
I believe coalitions can be done in such a way that preserves lore and history.
After all, this is a fluid growing game, we're not stuck in a singular point in time, so the expectation is that characters, as well as the game as a whole, should grow, and there really isn't any reason that a character can't 'grow' into the coalition system while maintaining their identity and background.
I dunno, maybe I don't have a horse in this race, but some mechanical questions that come to mind are: What'll happen to current guild-members after the transition period is over if they haven't chosen a coalition? Will they just be ousted from their guild and left without a coalition entirely?
Second: What'll happen to those with current guild honors lines? Will those be retained until the end of time? Will there be a way for the city's leadership to petition a Patron to strip someone of one if they do something far enough out of line? Will Coalitions be given an equivalent? Can city leaders?
Third: Guild-based mechanics, such as mob responses, guild emotes, guildhall entrances, etc. Will these become tied to skillsets instead, or just nuked?
Four: If classflex permissions are going to be moot for city- or communemates of the original guild's home, can the NPC teachers' restrictions be lifted as well?
Five: Guild newsboards actually can have some important stuff in them vis-a-vis lore and prophecies and Patron/NPC stances on past events. What will happen to these?
Six: Will coalitions be able to use a mechanic similar to a Guild Rite? If so, will the number of members needed be tweaked?
@Nyxx - guild identity and lore is probably the most common 'against' point posted in this thread and it's been acknowledged by the admin as a major consideration when moving from 'guilds' to 'coalitions'
I believe coalitions can be done in such a way that preserves lore and history.
After all, this is a fluid growing game, we're not stuck in a singular point in time, so the expectation is that characters, as well as the game as a whole, should grow, and there really isn't any reason that a character can't 'grow' into the coalition system while maintaining their identity and background.
Agreed wholeheartedly with this. @Nyxx IIRC when Houses were introduced to Achaea (the first time, not the most recent consolidation), the lead-up to the implementation was "ok guys, pick what classes you want in the House and we're gonna do this" with very little if any RP involved with the transition. I trust Lusternia's devs to do better than that and make a consolidation not terrible.
@Nyxx - guild identity and lore is probably the most common 'against' point posted in this thread and it's been acknowledged by the admin as a major consideration when moving from 'guilds' to 'coalitions'
I believe coalitions can be done in such a way that preserves lore and history.
After all, this is a fluid growing game, we're not stuck in a singular point in time, so the expectation is that characters, as well as the game as a whole, should grow, and there really isn't any reason that a character can't 'grow' into the coalition system while maintaining their identity and background.
Agreed wholeheartedly with this. @Nyxx IIRC when Houses were introduced to Achaea (the first time, not the most recent consolidation), the lead-up to the implementation was "ok guys, pick what classes you want in the House and we're gonna do this" with very little if any RP involved with the transition. I trust Lusternia's devs to do better than that and make a consolidation not terrible.
For those of us not familiar with the details involved in guild-to-houses/coalitions transitions in other games in the past, could those who played through those transitions write up a summary, highlighting mistakes made in the process, or give links to critiques of such transitions?
Building on previous iterations is always more productive than blazing new paths.
I think the change can be done without losing too much of the guilds. In some cases, the balance between what goes/stays won't be perfect, but most elements can be split. There might be an issue with keeping some of the names, which could be confusing. However, once we let the old names slip, it becomes easier.
Example: The Serenguard has a rich lore, built up from the centaur tribes and traditions and involving three totem spirits beyond the great spirits. It would be perfectly logical to just allow any class to join, but due to confusion, I'd suggest reforming into the "Nintoba Tribe", through some event and threat, we'd likely take part in a great centaur ritual that would add Bull to the totems, bring in some spirit song in the ritual and rebrand most of the Serenguard as a faction, taking some shofangi elements, keeping the path of the Noyan within the tribe for example. Meanwhile, a faethorn crisis could require exploring lost ruins, and finding the Rituals of the Old Summer and Winter Courts and assuming their mantle (and ancient duties), while on Prime Trialante and Hart lead a ritual to awaken spirits, and eventually form a new faction as well. A slow migration, superceding and assimilating the guilds, rather than destroying them.
idk, I feel like this is more a guild merge than what's been discussed. Might be misreading, but yeah, I guess I prefer Mayela's suggestions because I feel they take things that we already have and mix them up into something that retains much of the lore while also creating new avenues. Part of it might also be that the mention of Trialante and Hart working together feels like it might end up being a guild merge between the Spiritsingers and Hartstone ending with a faction where the Hartstone have reclaimed the rp that was "transferred" to the Spiritsingers when they first came out.
And like, I love Hartstone RP, it's quite literally my favourite in Lusternia(sorry MD I still love you just not that tower so much), but I feel like that could end up... not as good in the long run, not necessarily bad, but just... not as good. It might be because my brain feels that the clearer the line between a guild and a faction, the more likely people are to transition directly to their "guilds" faction.
I suppose the example there is that I feel all the Shofangi would end up in the proposed tribe, while if you split the spirits off allowing Moon, Stag, Bull, and the others (except ancestors, they should go to a different faction) to all be concentrated in one place, then... well Bull might actually get explored and those that have a potential interest in him can go there while those that are more interested in Kephera type stuff can go to a faction more likely to interact with them. Though part of this might be because of the older discussions about the shofangi with how anti-bull some people seem to be, dividing things up could be beneficial.
So.. instead of getting rid of all the guilds, I think some
have touched on this and forgive me if it has been said I did not read though
everything, why not give the cities and the guilds the option of merging the
guilds as seen fit with keeping the archetype. If they desire to change their
names to better reflect themselves allow a onetime change. When a new player
joins that guild they are given the choice at what archetype to take so no city
or commune is losing anything really but it is pulling people together.
Think of covenant but, merged and not able to part later.
This is not something that should just be DONE either, there
should be RP events that go on to make it reasonably explained other than an
OOC reason, the admin said we had to. Right now, with my guild there is a lot
of resentment on this and strong feelings. They do not want to lose the
ur'Guard at all as it is, the guild is strong, our only issue really is we do
not have novices really coming in. That is not really something we can do
anything about.
We continue down this, I can really see a number of people becoming rogue (simply not joining a coalition), flat out refusing to participate in this change in order to undermine
you. So long as they stay in the city, their skills work, and they do not need
whatever it is you are trying to create here. Just my own thoughts.
The soft, hollow voice of Nocht, the Silent resounds within your mind as His words echo through the aether, "Congratulations, Arimisia. Your mastery of vermin cannot be disputed."
Yeah no half-assed covenants, just forget about that system.
Yeah that's fine, no one's forcing you to join a guild/coalition.
But for the people who do want something to belong to, they'd appreciate more people to help them out and make things more lively.
Honestly, if you want to keep the ur'guard and have absolutely nothing change, you can always make a clan (induct only undead warrior classes), get a manse and literally copy the guildhall room by room, as an example.
Not sure why people who will just flat out refuse to participate in stuff should be catered to, honestly. Especially when they're specifically doing it just to undermine/be contrary.
EDIT: Not that I understand why someone would just flat out go "I can't have my exact guild structure, screw it all" anyways. I guess it would be helpful to explain why people would do that, if it's more than petulant spite.
Not sure why people who will just flat out refuse to participate in stuff should be catered to, honestly. Especially when they're specifically doing it just to undermine/be contrary.
EDIT: Not that I understand why someone would just flat out go "I can't have my exact guild structure, screw it all" anyways. I guess it would be helpful to explain why people would do that, if it's more than petulant spite.
Perhaps I could maybe offer a bit. I spoke of this before briefly when I expressed my disinterest in moving from the guild system but its about identity. To me. I am defined by my guild first and foremost. The order of things I would say "I am a <group>", city would be at the bottom of such a list. Merging two guilds together destroys this identity some claim to have. Believe it or not, some people do not join a city/commune for the org itself but rather part of it (be it a guild and the skills that come with it or an order)
I think the idea behind the factions-system is meant to facilitate more player created organisations, just not with mechanical, political structures that will only be left unfilled or filled with placeholders that only exacerbates the perceived emptiness of the game.
I mentioned that upgrades to mechanical support for clans so that players can supplement the mechanical, politically integrated org factions-system with their own, player mandated, subsections or communities - and these upgrades should be made to all clans, because everyone will benefit to have better clans. Also, as I mentioned, this is something that can be worked on in the long term, hammering out the factions-system to provide the backbone first should be our first step to creating a, hopefully, more vibrant Lusternia for everyone.
Not sure why people who will just flat out refuse to participate in stuff should be catered to, honestly. Especially when they're specifically doing it just to undermine/be contrary.
EDIT: Not that I understand why someone would just flat out go "I can't have my exact guild structure, screw it all" anyways. I guess it would be helpful to explain why people would do that, if it's more than petulant spite.
There
is a lot of attachment involved, you cannot be a part of something for so many
years and invest yourself so much without becoming attached, first and
foremost. That is not just me or my guild. This aside in the RP, for my guild,
a lot of them are fiercely loyal to the ur'Guard - so that cannot easily be
changed, you cannot just change the players character or their RP. @Ayisdra sums it up pretty well. look at @Marcella for instance (sorry! you are just a very easy target!) Her whole character has been made to be an ur'Guard, and not just mag ur'Guard but Urlach ur'Guard which is what lead me to the thought of my previous post. Myself included honestly, the guilds was kind of my characters salvation from many things. She has been there for for at least four years RL years now.
The soft, hollow voice of Nocht, the Silent resounds within your mind as His words echo through the aether, "Congratulations, Arimisia. Your mastery of vermin cannot be disputed."
Well my experience is with Achaea's bards. I joined up during the guild phase, played through the transition to Ty Beirdd, and was HL up until the new class restrictions were put in. We were kind of a unique case, because the Bard guild was exclusive to Cyrene, and the guild leadership was always kind of rebellious. They were far more interested in exploring bard RP than bard mechanics, and guild advancement was all about producing and performing poetry and songs and stuff. They wanted to allow non-Cyrenians in, or move the guildhall to Delos, or just be as inclusive as they could to people who liked that kind of RP. So when Houses came around and we were allowed to admit almost any class (certain ones were still mechanically forbidden, since you couldn't have Paladins and Apostates in the same org, for instance), we embraced it. The RP was never dependent on players' class choices, but their class choices could definitely inform their RP.
Most other houses didn't fare so well, because their identities, and possibly their advancement routes, were so tied up with the guild's original class. There was incentive for all houses to allow as many classes as possible, simply to keep population numbers up, but that meant coming up with flimsy justifications for allowing them. Eventually, as I understand it, most houses were left without much in the way of direction or defining features (since their rosters were all the same), so the decision was made that houses within a city couldn't have any overlap in their allowable classes. Rationale being that dividing classes up like that would force uniqueness into the houses that had lost it, I guess. Some time later, houses were all deleted and three omni-class factions were opened in each city, but I'd jumped ship by then so I can't speak to the success of that transition.
My perspective on the initial switch to Houses is skewed. It was exactly what our guild wanted and needed, so we had no complaints about the process. I imagine the lack of admin guidance through the transition could have been what hurt other houses. There has never seemed to be a unifying Vision for Achaea, so I think HL's were kind of left on their own to construct new identities that accommodated multiclass. I definitely felt that way when the decision came down to turn houses back into pseudo-guilds. That is to say, I learned about the shift from our house patron when I requested Blademasters be added to our list of allowable classes. No warning from the admin, no consultation, no guidance on how I was supposed to frame the change in house policy as anything other than "the gods made me do it." Those are the pitfalls I really trust Lusternia's admin to avoid. I really have faith that they'd take their time with the transition, ensuring it makes sense within the context of the world and ongoing narrative.
So, @Kalaak, more to your point, the biggest mistakes we could make in this process would be failing to involve the guild leaders and members (including the ones who don't use the forums) who have worked hard to build up their guilds, and failing to provide a satisfying in-game explanation for the shift. The admin responses in this thread have eased a lot of my concerns. @Arimisia, I get where your alarm is coming from, but I think the Ur'guard would make it through this kind of transition just fine, especially if the lore and RP is as strong as everyone says. Those narrative hooks are what the admin and players will want to preserve, and none of them are specifically tied up with Ur'guard skills. I can see them playing heavily into the lore of one of Magnagora's factions. I don't see those lines of RP becoming unavailable.
I get that. @Enyalida's story is VERY tied into the Hartstone and being a Druid. Everything in her life has been sacrificed to her guild and commune, from a very young age. Family, her childhood, and her morals have been challenged and compromised in the name of what she thinks is the common interest. She's been an elected leader in Hartstone for a total time of... going on a century, starting from when she was ~20. Like... I get it. I've invested a LOT of my time thinking about and working on specifically guild-related roleplaying. What I don't get is just grumping and cutting off your nose to spite your face here.
I agree with @Lerad. There are big parts of being a druid that I would like to preserve in the factional system, and enhanced clan-type structures are the way to go. Specifically, it's been emphasized repeatedly that a non-guild organization should be non-guild and not just a merger of two guilds.
Yeah no half-assed covenants, just forget about that system.
Yeah that's fine, no one's forcing you to join a guild/coalition.
But for the people who do want something to belong to, they'd appreciate more people to help them out and make things more lively.
Honestly, if you want to keep the ur'guard and have absolutely nothing change, you can always make a clan (induct only undead warrior classes), get a manse and literally copy the guildhall room by room, as an example.
The ur'Guard loyalty comes from the sense of belonging to a military structure, and our dedication to each other/Urlach. There's nothing about only undead warriors, and myself and at least a few others have actually already tried working on a few things to merge members of other guilds into it. It helps that the guild is insular enough that it can and, on occasion, has operated in opposition to Magnagora's feelings (again, not to pick on @Marcella but the ur'Guard very much refused to let her go when Magnagora ousted her.)
Just as an example, because I can't really divorce myself from the obsession, there is no reason that, in a merging situation, the ur'Guard can't remain, as has been pointed out a few times, it would just now be mechanically, via assumed classflexing de-restricting, open to all. It could even be done in a cooperative manner, a re- (re-re-re?) rechartering of the ur'Guard to now be Magnagora's unified military, keeping it's current ranking structure and re-invigorated to have really interesting ways to incorporate scholarly, combative, and religious branches of all the guilds, united by military doctrine and such. Which, in a city like Magnagora, would quite easily be feasible as emerging as it's own quasi-political bloc.
Comments
Favouring is kinda awkward in its current state. The reason that I would like the lower tier favours is because then you can hand them out more often, you can say "hey you did something really cool and here's a favour for it" without having a comparison to the amount of effort involved in most systems to get a favour, the points still build up and get you to the same place but you can also give them out a bit more often so that advancement as a whole is easier.
It's one of the nice things, like... I would totally be favouring Lleuke if I could fairly regularly for all sorts of things because it's a nice easy way of say "Thanks, you're awesome" and there's actually a benefit to it, as opposed to it being "wasted" now because "it doesn't do anything".
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
Let's make something clear here, mr. I have no idea who you even are, I'll -rarely- quote something has historical, if I dont have the factual backing behind it. Lusternia Lore is a hobby of mine, because I enjoy the story, and there is a reason I do so well in quizes concerning it. So how about you back it up a bit here Lucy, and mull this over before posting that I am throwing incorrect facts up, mm?
So, how about dropping it as requested by the admin in this thread and discussing the topic at hand? Thank you.
Or maybe something more like how the most prestigious families have a leader, and then also a ruling council member. So, the Guildmaster appoints the guild's council member, they could appoint themselves if they feel they can do both, or delegate to someone else?
I think the change can be done without losing too much of the guilds. In some cases, the balance between what goes/stays won't be perfect, but most elements can be split. There might be an issue with keeping some of the names, which could be confusing. However, once we let the old names slip, it becomes easier.
Example: The Serenguard has a rich lore, built up from the centaur tribes and traditions and involving three totem spirits beyond the great spirits. It would be perfectly logical to just allow any class to join, but due to confusion, I'd suggest reforming into the "Nintoba Tribe", through some event and threat, we'd likely take part in a great centaur ritual that would add Bull to the totems, bring in some spirit song in the ritual and rebrand most of the Serenguard as a faction, taking some shofangi elements, keeping the path of the Noyan within the tribe for example. Meanwhile, a faethorn crisis could require exploring lost ruins, and finding the Rituals of the Old Summer and Winter Courts and assuming their mantle (and ancient duties), while on Prime Trialante and Hart lead a ritual to awaken spirits, and eventually form a new faction as well. A slow migration, superceding and assimilating the guilds, rather than destroying them.
As to the Ur'guard, may I suggest The Heirs of Ur'Lach, it can include Ur'guard as a rank/path in the faction, while still absorbing a large part of the Ur'lach lore and continuing to be true as the inheritors of the original death cults. If a returning Ur'guard reawakens, instead of 'the Guild is gone', it becomes, "we've recognized our greater destiny as the children of Ur'lach and now all walks of life share in his gift of Undeath" The guild can transcend, blending other elements and keeping most of its own.
It gives me some ideas for Mag: The Heirs of Ur'lach (Undeath Faction); The Machina Maxima (machine/transformation faction), the Despondent Faith (Worship of the demon lords). Three different avenues for roleplay with room for all sorts of RP within each.
Sorry, double post- Silly browser.
So.. instead of getting rid of all the guilds, I think some have touched on this and forgive me if it has been said I did not read though everything, why not give the cities and the guilds the option of merging the guilds as seen fit with keeping the archetype. If they desire to change their names to better reflect themselves allow a onetime change. When a new player joins that guild they are given the choice at what archetype to take so no city or commune is losing anything really but it is pulling people together.
Think of covenant but, merged and not able to part later.
This is not something that should just be DONE either, there should be RP events that go on to make it reasonably explained other than an OOC reason, the admin said we had to. Right now, with my guild there is a lot of resentment on this and strong feelings. They do not want to lose the ur'Guard at all as it is, the guild is strong, our only issue really is we do not have novices really coming in. That is not really something we can do anything about.
We continue down this, I can really see a number of people becoming rogue (simply not joining a coalition), flat out refusing to participate in this change in order to undermine you. So long as they stay in the city, their skills work, and they do not need whatever it is you are trying to create here. Just my own thoughts.
Perhaps I could maybe offer a bit. I spoke of this before briefly when I expressed my disinterest in moving from the guild system but its about identity. To me. I am defined by my guild first and foremost. The order of things I would say "I am a <group>", city would be at the bottom of such a list. Merging two guilds together destroys this identity some claim to have. Believe it or not, some people do not join a city/commune for the org itself but rather part of it (be it a guild and the skills that come with it or an order)
There is a lot of attachment involved, you cannot be a part of something for so many years and invest yourself so much without becoming attached, first and foremost. That is not just me or my guild. This aside in the RP, for my guild, a lot of them are fiercely loyal to the ur'Guard - so that cannot easily be changed, you cannot just change the players character or their RP. @Ayisdra sums it up pretty well. look at @Marcella for instance (sorry! you are just a very easy target!) Her whole character has been made to be an ur'Guard, and not just mag ur'Guard but Urlach ur'Guard which is what lead me to the thought of my previous post. Myself included honestly, the guilds was kind of my characters salvation from many things. She has been there for for at least four years RL years now.
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
Just as an example, because I can't really divorce myself from the obsession, there is no reason that, in a merging situation, the ur'Guard can't remain, as has been pointed out a few times, it would just now be mechanically, via assumed classflexing de-restricting, open to all. It could even be done in a cooperative manner, a re- (re-re-re?) rechartering of the ur'Guard to now be Magnagora's unified military, keeping it's current ranking structure and re-invigorated to have really interesting ways to incorporate scholarly, combative, and religious branches of all the guilds, united by military doctrine and such. Which, in a city like Magnagora, would quite easily be feasible as emerging as it's own quasi-political bloc.