***************************[ THE GEOMANCERS GUILD ]**************************** Guildmember Rank Position GT GNT CGT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Person NOV On On On ******************************************************************************* Currently, there is 1 member on this Plane and 2 on other Planes.
**********************[ THE GRAND DOMINION OF MAGNAGORA ]********************** Citizen Rank Position CT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sakaki Master On Person Serf On ******************************************************************************* Currently, there are 2 Citizens on this Plane and 10 on other Planes.
This is what I just logged in to. Yes, you definitely need to trim off a few guilds (and maybe even cities). Condensing the players you have into less orgs will bring everyone together, helping immensely in the long run when newbie #231 joins and actually sees other people in the city with him or her.
The bolded also hurts you guys probably more than you realize.
A lot of people are at work when you posted this, so.
It's not that people were on other planes. It's that they aren't listed in any of the QW, CW, or GW player listings. That makes the game seem even more empty than it really is.
It's not that people were on other planes. It's that they aren't listed in any of the QW, CW, or GW player listings. That makes the game seem even more empty than it really is.
cwho and gwho always have people on them. if it says 'other planes' they are really on other planes.
qw doesn't have those who have cloaking gems (unlike cwho/gwho who do).
I'm not sure what you mean by 'aren't listed', but there is always the gmcp channelList that can tell you who those offplane people are if your client/system tells you those things.
Meanwhile, a CR4/GR19 is sitting around on prime not helping with the Flares.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
I think Rami's point is that having so many people around and active, but not having newbies know it, may be a contributing factor to newbies who feel like their org is empty because they don't know what being on "other planes" mean.
Just a random thought while I'm doing something else. There's no reason why the coalitions have to be tied to anything per se. In Magnagora, for example, we could name the three coalitions:
Infernal Aristocrats (short name Aristocrats)
Machina Maximus (short name Machina)
Masters of Nil (short name Masters)
Would certain classes or RP styles be concentrated in any of these coalitions? Perhaps, but the point is that coalitions would constantly evolve through the player members as the histories of the coalitions develop over time. If the coalitions start as relatively blank states, it would truly be the players who determine ultimately what they become.
I just want to weigh in on these options. Machina Maximus is a beautiful concept, since it doesnt focus on a specific class (like Warrior or Nihilist), but rather plays to a powerful theme in Magnagora: Advancement through Technology/Industry (the Engine). I dont feel this same power in the other two.
Masters of Nil just feels like Nihilists remade. As if it a guild that is focusing on Nil itself. Why not make a guild that is giving the image of the faith itself? Masters of the Damned.
This would showcase the faith, rather than the class. It would also play to the ideas of Necromancy and Undeath, which many love the theme of.
Infernal Aristocrats is also a bit wonky. Why are they Infernal Aristocrats? What makes them infernal exactly? Also what would the guild even do? Why not play it more towards a theme of "Superior race"? This may be what you are already intending, but to me, it isnt really presenting it. I cant think of another name right now, but maybe later.
I feel like everyone is so caught up in naming these proposed factions. I would love to hear more about how you plan to keep all of the work people have put into the current system, and particular quirks that make each of us enjoy the guilds as they are now, even if empty. Like, Adushoc? The kitty that roams about the MD tower, the rituals that are tied to the towers. All of that plus whatever else people have in their guildhalls.
Maybe if we could share what we love so much about our guilds and find ways to ensure those aspects are taken into account it wouldn't feel like the rug is being ripped from under us so much. I understand this isn't set in stone, but the way people are running with this I get the feeling it is really just a matter of time.
Just a random thought while I'm doing something else. There's no reason why the coalitions have to be tied to anything per se. In Magnagora, for example, we could name the three coalitions:
Infernal Aristocrats (short name Aristocrats)
Machina Maximus (short name Machina)
Masters of Nil (short name Masters)
Would certain classes or RP styles be concentrated in any of these coalitions? Perhaps, but the point is that coalitions would constantly evolve through the player members as the histories of the coalitions develop over time. If the coalitions start as relatively blank states, it would truly be the players who determine ultimately what they become.
This sounds like the nuclear option, if I'm reading you correctly. I don't think wiping away guilds and installing three directionless, loreless groups in their place is what anyone wants.
Right, players generally need something to work on. It's nice to think otherwise, but we do not work well if you just hand us a blank canvas and some tubes of paint. Too many hands will try to take up space, and ruin the entire painting.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Depends on where the factions are and who takes over as the initial leadership of these factions. It could work out great for factions with inspired, creative leadership. It could totally flop for the factions that just want to murder people and have other things they'd rather be doing than writing help files.
And IIRC, the bard guild-quests were put in due to complaints about them having no lore.
They were, but then there was a complete lack of documentation for them. How many Cantors do the Dove Quest? How many Minstrels (are stupid enough to) help the Merry Minstrel? So few Spiritsingers even know how to begin repairing the Sundial.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
And IIRC, the bard guild-quests were put in due to complaints about them having no lore.
They were, but then there was a complete lack of documentation for them. How many Cantors do the Dove Quest? How many Minstrels (are stupid enough to) help the Merry Minstrel? So few Spiritsingers even know how to begin repairing the Sundial.
This. While the quests aren't extremely difficult to figure out (and two of the three guilds mentioned have [or had] detailed guides in their ghelps) there is nothing aside from this and word of mouth to even prompt an interested player into investigating. Not all of the Voices even have greet responses to indicate a quest exists. Also, let me just say that Cantors who haven't worked through the Flock of Miracles quest are missing out on SO MUCH GOOD STUFF.
More to the topic, though, I hope this all becomes a thing. The game will benefit, and though we'll obviously have to cut away some things that we've grown comfortable with, the outcome is having more room to expand and build better things in their place. Don't fear progress, stagnation when stuff doesn't work is Bad.
Crumkane, Lord of Epicurean Delights says, "WAS IT INDEED ON FIRE, ERITHEYL."
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With a deep reverb, Contemptible Sutekh says, "CEASE YOUR INFERNAL ENERGY, ERITHEYL."
And IIRC, the bard guild-quests were put in due to complaints about them having no lore.
They were, but then there was a complete lack of documentation for them. How many Cantors do the Dove Quest? How many Minstrels (are stupid enough to) help the Merry Minstrel? So few Spiritsingers even know how to begin repairing the Sundial.
Most of the active ones, actually. We make it a point to have people go out and do that. Its even a common "Novice Hunting Trip" idea.
Yep, without some kind of guidance, you have all kinds of players with conflicting ideas and the best won't always win out. It'll be the one supported by the most persuasive, charismatic, or strong-willed proponent. Either that, or you have people endlessly spinning their wheels. It also seems like an enormous burden on players to be excellent lorecrafters, writers, and communicators, which are qualities selected for in ephemeral applications. There has to be some cooperation between players and admin when considering a change like this. That seems to be the direction of this conversation anyway, so I won't spend too much energy decrying the dangers of giving players carte blanche with coalitions.
Yes, definitely think we need to not lose sight of the parts of this process beyond "what will the groups be"! While I've thrown out some coalition ideas because ideas are fun and I want to make sure Hallifax doesn't do a caste thing, they're just vague suggestions and not meant to be the entirety of the planning. Like I'm doing some sketches in the margins of the paper and not being quite sure what the final composition is gonna be yet, yeah?
I'm curious about all the mechanical changes, and plans on implementation. I agree with @Daraius that the coalitions shouldn't go in as totally blank slates, because that only works if you have a lot of really passionate, motivated players who agree with each other to get the ball rolling. Passionate and motivated are easy enough to find, getting them to all agree on what direction to go in...maybe not so easy, haha. I don't think that the foundation needs to be so set in stone that it removes all possibility of flexibility while moving forward, but there needs to be enough of a foundation that a coalition won't suffer if none of the players put a huge amount of effort into establishing the lore right out the gate.
I do think it is important that coalitions should have a chance to exist in the game for a little while and make themselves known before players are given access to them, so we aren't going in blind (and I think it'll help people come up with ideas for how to expand on them before it becomes a pressing issue.) This gives them a chance to settle in as a piece of the organization, too; an especially important consideration for those coalitions that don't have the luxury of an existing establishment to latch onto. It would also help to make the transition feel more like a natural process than a sudden switch.
Sorry my posts in this thread keep ending up so long, ack. I am not meaning to do this, I am just full of words on this subject, apparently!
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EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
The Serenguard have a quest (not the evil quest), a super simple quest leftover from a very old event. We made it a requirement for advancement, so that everyone does it. I don't see why the other guilds mentioned couldn't say, "Hey, in order to be advanced, you have to do the Dove Quest". I'm assuming, of course, that these are quests able to be done by newbies.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
I'd like for them to be, but the bard guild quests are disproportionate in hardness. I don't even know that the Merry Minstrel quest is supposed to be "our quest", and it gives an honours line while the others do not.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Something I have wondered but never known: Is there a Symphonium quest along these lines that I've never heard of?
Not to my knowledge, but that could very well change.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Something I have wondered but never known: Is there a Symphonium quest along these lines that I've never heard of?
Not to my knowledge, but that could very well change.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
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EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
I'd like for them to be, but the bard guild quests are disproportionate in hardness. I don't even know that the Merry Minstrel quest is supposed to be "our quest", and it gives an honours line while the others do not.
Ah, that would be a problem then. Our is just "get this item, use it to grow another item, then get two other people to say two lines and eat the item. BAM. Done."
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
I feel like everyone is so caught up in naming these proposed factions. I would love to hear more about how you plan to keep all of the work people have put into the current system, and particular quirks that make each of us enjoy the guilds as they are now, even if empty. Like, Adushoc? The kitty that roams about the MD tower, the rituals that are tied to the towers. All of that plus whatever else people have in their guildhalls.
Maybe if we could share what we love so much about our guilds and find ways to ensure those aspects are taken into account it wouldn't feel like the rug is being ripped from under us so much. I understand this isn't set in stone, but the way people are running with this I get the feeling it is really just a matter of time.
I think some of those things can stay behind with the guild halls if they become well... class halls. Mostly the mobs and the like. But I think with the rituals it also really depends on what the factions would look like in the end.
As an example, I expect that the Spirit Circle would start gathering up all the rituals for all of the spirits almost immediately. I imagine that as part of this they might have some rp sessions where they might try to earn access to some aspects of the guild halls that focus primarily on the ritualistic aspects of rp, though I also expect that things that are "ritual objects" that mostly give the ability to use room echoes would be something that they'd end up buying for themselves to not give them a freebie.
Aside from the ritualistic aspects, I would want to see their starting point being about gathering all of the information and general other stuff that has been developed over the years. While not all of it will be as relevant all the time, the first and biggest project would be taking all of that and synthesising it into a functional faction. Finding a way to teach people and encorage rp around Moon, Stag, and the other spirits. The early stages being just about learning about all of them individually, then perhaps some dedicated study and ritual, that transitions quietly into focusing on their unity and the many ways they are both similar and different, before eventually progressing on to looking at the will of nature.
Of course, I also really hope that the faction does things like growing their own guild hall the same way that the bridges were grown. Nice big ritual, offerings to the spirits and then it starts to grow all blessed by every spirit working together in harmony.
One thing that actually comes to mind immediately is that the Spirit Circle might not actually take on the ancestors as an aspect, instead they might be incorporated into something like the suggested Winter Court.
Comments
cwho and gwho always have people on them. if it says 'other planes' they are really on other planes.
qw doesn't have those who have cloaking gems (unlike cwho/gwho who do).
I'm not sure what you mean by 'aren't listed', but there is always the gmcp channelList that can tell you who those offplane people are if your client/system tells you those things.
@Sakaki he throwing shade your way.
I just want to weigh in on these options. Machina Maximus is a beautiful concept, since it doesnt focus on a specific class (like Warrior or Nihilist), but rather plays to a powerful theme in Magnagora: Advancement through Technology/Industry (the Engine). I dont feel this same power in the other two.
Masters of Nil just feels like Nihilists remade. As if it a guild that is focusing on Nil itself. Why not make a guild that is giving the image of the faith itself? Masters of the Damned.
This would showcase the faith, rather than the class. It would also play to the ideas of Necromancy and Undeath, which many love the theme of.
Infernal Aristocrats is also a bit wonky. Why are they Infernal Aristocrats? What makes them infernal exactly? Also what would the guild even do? Why not play it more towards a theme of "Superior race"? This may be what you are already intending, but to me, it isnt really presenting it. I cant think of another name right now, but maybe later.
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
But...it didn't work so well for some of the monk guilds.
And IIRC, the bard guild-quests were put in due to complaints about them having no lore.
This. While the quests aren't extremely difficult to figure out (and two of the three guilds mentioned have [or had] detailed guides in their ghelps) there is nothing aside from this and word of mouth to even prompt an interested player into investigating. Not all of the Voices even have greet responses to indicate a quest exists. Also, let me just say that Cantors who haven't worked through the Flock of Miracles quest are missing out on SO MUCH GOOD STUFF.
More to the topic, though, I hope this all becomes a thing. The game will benefit, and though we'll obviously have to cut away some things that we've grown comfortable with, the outcome is having more room to expand and build better things in their place. Don't fear progress, stagnation when stuff doesn't work is Bad.
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Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
Not to my knowledge, but that could very well change.
Not to my knowledge, but that could very well change.