Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Not to be the voice of the obvious, but no matter the solution, some subset of the playerbase is going to think it's a bad idea. That being said, those players need to think more on the level of what is good for the game rather than what is good for them on a personal level. Everyone is entitled to be selfish, but be prepared to be passed over if you are only out for your own enjoyment.
Would there be space (that there isn't now) for factions to evolve more organically than guilds? In other words, could it be possible (for example) for one faction in Serenwilde to develop two additional elected positions fitted to their style, while another uses unweighted voting only, while a third has the leader appoint an Administrator-esque position who in turn has the power to appoint and oversee secretaries?
Also, will there be some space for class-based subgroups or dedicated RP clans with coded support? Something in the vein of High Clans, that will allow inclined players to recreate some of the 'guild' feel without forcing everyone to participate would be nice. For example: If a guildhall (like the Illuminati) isn't totally nuked, but instead is transferred to the control of a high clan based around the more secret mystical elements of the guild. That way, the Illuminati would continue to exist and would be able to handle their own advancement-esque RP, but wouldn't necessarily be a primary political force in Gaudiguch. A good example of this is how the Alchemist 'guild' worked in Achaea's Hashan. People with the alchemist class could join the Hashanite guild that allowed them in, but they could also join the "Crown's Alchemists" clan, who owned and operated the alchemy equipment and who had advancement based around roleplaying being an alchemist. It was a totally optional part of being an alchemist, but it provided a way for class-based, 'secrets' based roleplaying with a mechanical backbone.
EDIT: My first point speaks to the concern I share that having just one elected leader per faction might not work out. What I'd rather do is run it that way for a while, but allow (and encourage) each faction or org to figure out what alternate division of power would most fit their concept and move to that. It doesn't all need to be uniform, it makes no sense for it all to be uniform.
With covenants, most guilds are used to being 2 guilds at a time for what that is worth. This will divide people by a goal or idea instead of by guild, take that for what it is worth.
I would not be adverse to destroying an org (Celest) and letting people fan out.
What way would you suggest? Many of the admin
worked to create and improve the guilds, both as admin and as players.
We are not interested in ditching that hard work and we would be working
with guild leaders on how best to translate those ideas forward. All
ideas are appreciated.
The best solution would be sorta what Kalaneya said, putting some sub-groups into the mess of an amalgamated guild system. Perhaps a little faction type thing in the mess where people can identify with a common theme... And... now I realize how much that sounds exactly like what we have now...
Wait, here we go: Vote or something on which guilds get deleted, keep the ones with an identity, and drop all the bard and monk guilds because that's the same thing I just said. Let you pick a skillset on chargen, and then join the Aero/Sentinel/Institute/Pyro/Templar/Illuminati/ur'Guard/Geo/Nihilist/Celestines/Paladins/Aqua/The same 3 original guilds with actual identities from Serendoring/Glomwilde.
You're implying that bard/monk guilds don't have cohesive identities, which as a lifetime member of a monk guild, I have to disagree with. Admittedly, Scorpion has had an immense amount of love from an admin perspective with a dedicated area and honours quest, which as I understand it, isn't the case for the Shofangi's Spirit Bull. No matter how you slice it, someone is going to feel screwed in consolidating the guilds, like Ixion said.
As I understand this, the purpose of the merging is to consolidate each org's culture into one cohesive whole. I feel the best way to consolidate would be likely to find out what it means from each guild and guild member to have that specific identity and to make this understood broadly within the org. It will be important to preserve people who have that strong sense of identity in the 'scholar/art/culture' faction and have that new faction have to educate the rest of the org about that particular identity. There may be a need to supplement currently underrepresented aspects of guild culture coded more solidly into the game if it is a priority for the guild's players to see it a part of the greater org. I keep going back to Spirit Bull on this because even when I had a shitty Seren alt so many years ago, I couldn't find much about it.
As far as new names for "factions", I agree with @Malarious that this is a good opportunity for orgs to develop their own flavour. For example:
Hallif: company
Seren: tribe
Glom: cabal
Gaudi: sect
Celest: don't know much enough about Celest, but they seem like they would love a good council
Mag: same, but they seem like a syndicate kind of city
If @Estarra insists on a broader term, then maybe alliance, coalition, union, I personally like fellowship.
Admittedly, Scorpion has had an immense amount of love from an admin perspective with a dedicated area and honours quest, which as I understand it, isn't the case for the Shofangi's Spirit Bull.
What, you mean the one that had tons of dialogue removed and the admin telling Janalon and co. they couldn't take their RP with them a certain way? The same area and honors quest that, when the nekotai incorporated it into their RP, the admins deleted all the bits to do with the nekotai?
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EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
I think, if handled properly, this could work. It would be painful transition, but one we had to make. And I hope that players will be involved in how this plays out. I'm one of those players would be pissed if all my hard work over the years was just forgotten in place of someone else's new vision.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
I know that when this sort of thing got discussed before, there was talk of having factions be more malleable than guilds. Specifically, that if enough players got together and did a factional type thing, it could become a mechanical faction. And of course, if a faction lost its playerbase it could be retired. I think allowing that to happen is a good thing.
Take Hallifax, as an example. I'm confident that an arts/science faction could sustain itself more or less forever. I do not like that particular grouping, but I'm pretty sure it could last forever. Military would probably be small but it could hold itself together. I'm not confident that a bureaucrat faction could sustain itself. There aren't very many people who play bureaucrat types. That might be because there's no guild that supports it right now, but I'm guessing that it's more because they just aren't interesting to many people. Letting factions rise and fall means that a bureaucrat faction can exist if there are people for it, but it won't become an empty group if those people go inactive. Plus, letting organic factions form based on what players do will ensure that the active factions represent the things that people are actually interested in. Administer new faction approvals the same way that approvals for getting a historical family name work. Three factions or so does seem like a good starting point, unless you want to just poll members of each city to see what they want design initial factions accordingly.
Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
I think, if handled properly, this could work. It would be painful transition, but one we had to make. And I hope that players will be involved in how this plays out. I'm one of those players would be pissed if all my hard work over the years was just forgotten in place of someone else's new vision.
Yes, that is why we posted this to the forums to get feedback instead of going full steam ahead and in 3-24 months just dropping the new system on everyone without a word. The point of the system is to reduce the number of guilds but retain the hard work and lore that we currently have. Will it be difficult? Yes, definitely. Half the admin, including Estarra, said "I hate this." when the idea was first brought up. But this is very do-able without losing everything we have done so far. If this moves forward, the org patrons will be working with the player leadership to come up with the best outcome possible.
I do not think this is a good idea. Maybe if pulled back a little, a bit of tweaking, but nothing this major. It would just split the playerbase more and some people would leave. Plus, we all see our cities differently, Magnagora is more than just a syndicate, mafia, even an organisation. Seems like there will be bottlenecking still.
There are several things which are responsible for lack of players, and it's not guilds. A lot of it is to do with the players currently playing and their attitudes along with what's happening at the moment. Why do we not try and bring in new ones?
I like the idea of guilds. It fits with Lusternia's style, that fantasy, science fiction combo which is a good enjoyable staple. It also is clear what everyone does. Guildmaster deals with external affairs and cuncil, Guild Administrator deals with guild inner affairs, Champion deals with combat affairs, and there are minions (Secs, undersecs, security, protectors). It's simple, it's straightforward, it works.
Admittedly, Scorpion has had an immense amount of love from an admin perspective with a dedicated area and honours quest, which as I understand it, isn't the case for the Shofangi's Spirit Bull.
What, you mean the one that had tons of dialogue removed and the admin telling Janalon and co. they couldn't take their RP with them a certain way? The same area and honors quest that, when the nekotai incorporated it into their RP, the admins deleted all the bits to do with the nekotai?
Well, yeah obviously. I've never actually seen the pre-nerf version of the quest, even oocly, but it didn't make a difference to my opinion. Sure it's not the direction Jan wanted to take, but she made it work within the confines and never made me feel like we got culture-nerfed. That's what developing a player-driven culture is about anyway. So I take it back, maybe we don't need hardcoded stuff in the game, just a figurative Janalon for every org.
At first I felt kinda skeptical about this. I mean, getting rid of guilds? But it is super lonely being a Cantor most of the time, and at least half of our novices explicitly leave because "there's noone around in the guild". So that's a definite point in favour of doing this. But I have questions.
1. Will there still be a City Leader? If so, that would put most organizations at 4 voting Council Members and could lead to an increase in political stalemates. Or maybe not. We managed when it was just 3 guilds per city. 2. How is cross-organizational classflexing going to be handled? Will it be forbidden, become a Council power or become a power of one of the Ministries? If a Ministry power, which Ministry? 3. Will still Ministers be appointed under this new system? Or would they switch to being elected, like GA/GC are currently, but now with a citywide vote?
1. Yes, there will still be a city leader. Ruling councils were able to manage when there were only 3 guilds so I don't anticipate a huge problem. 2. I'm not really sure that cross-org classflex was ever something that was truly "intended". It may stay or it may go. 3. Yes, ministers will still be appointed. Nothing about city ministries is planned to change except for the Security and Ambassador changes in the original post.
Ooo that cross org classflex thing..... that could be a doozie.
if this is coming before the monks, then there are rogue monks (and some other guilds) in Gaudi and Halli, I would prefer they keep their skills if they do not have an alternative to them.
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EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
Re: Scorpion/Bull
Yes, the Shofangi had little information about Bull to start with. But then the players decided they would all but jettison anything having to do with Bull. So it wasn't just that nothing was built around Bull--there was a dedicated effort to prevent it.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
Also, will there be some space for class-based subgroups or dedicated RP clans with coded support? Something in the vein of High Clans, that will allow inclined players to recreate some of the 'guild' feel without forcing everyone to participate would be nice. For example: If a guildhall (like the Illuminati) isn't totally nuked, but instead is transferred to the control of a high clan based around the more secret mystical elements of the guild. That way, the Illuminati would continue to exist and would be able to handle their own advancement-esque RP, but wouldn't necessarily be a primary political force in Gaudiguch. A good example of this is how the Alchemist 'guild' worked in Achaea's Hashan. People with the alchemist class could join the Hashanite guild that allowed them in, but they could also join the "Crown's Alchemists" clan, who owned and operated the alchemy equipment and who had advancement based around roleplaying being an alchemist. It was a totally optional part of being an alchemist, but it provided a way for class-based, 'secrets' based roleplaying with a mechanical backbone.
This is something that players are already capable of doing with a clan and an aethermanse. Anything that would be required for class based abilities (flesh, -chem reagents, institute weapon labs, etc.) is going to be publicly available to members of the city or that class so no clan is going to need coded support to exist.
Ew, Manses. Manses are a really poor way of adding any kind of concrete flavor, because they are by nature totally and completely non-concrete. I can walk into any manse, look at all of the descriptions, and make my manse be an exact copy of that manse, yawn. It's something fundamentally different to have real, coded support for real areas of the game with administrative legitimacy. Deepnight and similar endeavors didn't take off for a reason - they were totally divorced from the 'realities' of the rest of the game, gated into their own 'do whatever' section of the code. Likewise, any player can create a clan that purports to be anything and play make believe with roleplaying that utterly breaks from Lusternian lore, if they want.
The point was not to gate off class abilities, but to allow guild identities that necessarily revolved around a sense of separateness that couldn't carry into a factions system to continue to exist to some degree, and maintain that feel for characters to whom those identities are central. In other words, having some mechanical construct that allows people devoted to the inner teachings of Hart (or Crow or Night/Moon) and the bond with others who are devoted to those ideals, because that probably won't translate into a faction. Having a priesthood of Moon would make a valuable apolitical addition to a faction system, and having tools in place to make that experience something beyond what you can get in a freeform chat room is probably a good idea.
EDIT: In other words, a core part of some guilds won't be amenable to folding into one of 3 factions, unless you basically just give that guild a pass and let it carry forwards as one of those factions with few changes. The outlet I'm suggesting is to include support for an optional and apolitical (no council member) method with comparable mechanical structures to a guild. I used High Clans as an example because they use a lot of the same underlying structure of a clan, but are elevated above the 'do whatever' rabble of regular clans and are afforded special rights and responsabilities that bring legitimacy.
I know that when this sort of thing got discussed before, there was talk of having factions be more malleable than guilds. Specifically, that if enough players got together and did a factional type thing, it could become a mechanical faction. And of course, if a faction lost its playerbase it could be retired. I think allowing that to happen is a good thing.
Take Hallifax, as an example. I'm confident that an arts/science faction could sustain itself more or less forever. I do not like that particular grouping, but I'm pretty sure it could last forever. Military would probably be small but it could hold itself together. I'm not confident that a bureaucrat faction could sustain itself. There aren't very many people who play bureaucrat types. That might be because there's no guild that supports it right now, but I'm guessing that it's more because they just aren't interesting to many people. Letting factions rise and fall means that a bureaucrat faction can exist if there are people for it, but it won't become an empty group if those people go inactive. Plus, letting organic factions form based on what players do will ensure that the active factions represent the things that people are actually interested in. Administer new faction approvals the same way that approvals for getting a historical family name work. Three factions or so does seem like a good starting point, unless you want to just poll members of each city to see what they want design initial factions accordingly.
As I said in my initial post, the Hallifax example was provided to illustrative purposes only. We plan to work with cities to determine what the best faction composition is for them.
Honestly, being able to create your own Faction isn't really going to work with this system. The idea is to reduce the number of guilds due to population issues, not make it a variable number. It also creates the opportunity for some situations where players spend time creating an organization that gets rejected, leading to hurt feelings among players and putting the org patron on the position of being the "bad guy/gal".
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EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
Maybe something like a very much smaller, simpler version of homesteads that could be owned by clans, but if the group goes inactive, the mini-homestead falls into ruins and is destroyed? That way there's not a thousand little mini-marts all over the Basin.
I don't know, I think it's perfectly possible to do really cool things without a lot of code support. For the Serenguard vision quests, there's now a brand new mechanical thing that can be done to make them a little easier, but other than that, the entire premise, organization, and structure is "in the wind", not coded by anything. Places like Deepnight didn't succeed partly because, as you say, they were totally divorced out in an aethermanse, but also because Deepnight was a MASSIVE undertaking intending to replicate a fully functional city out of nothing.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
I think there's no need to have coded subsections in the new factions-or-whatever. First of all, keep the new factions-or-whatever system simple. They are smaller, leaner guilds, with no archetype restriction and are therefore based off ideology.
Good enough.
Players can still make their Shofangi Clan and have members in it who are members of different factions-or-whatever. Or you could create a Paladins clan and recruit every single warrior archetype in Celest to join that clan, no matter which of the factions-or-whatever they belong to.
The next step we can consider after all of that is to improve the code behind the clan system, which I think everyone, regardless of faction-or-whatever or not, will appreciate. Make it possible to designate shop bin policies based on clan (if not already possible), allow clans to create "clan halls", but with caps or limits or restrictions, whatever works. That can come later.
Whatever you do, however, do remember to let the players in the game decide at least the ideology, the structure, and perhaps even the implementation. Forum players are a subset of the game, and the in-game players can surely have good ideas too. The skeletal structure/plan we have in the first post is probably more than good enough as a base - any more specific details and you start alienating too many people. Start getting the stakeholders involved in the process from here on out, is my recommendation.
I'm really really torn. When I think about the lore built in the Nihilists for example, and the whole lot of work poured into the help files and the guild hall and the rituals and quests on Nil it pains me to think it would be obliterated or made obsolete and broadened and watered down. It makes me feel really ill, to be honest.
And yet...I am not entirely against the notions suggested. It's never sat well with me to see inactive leaders in positions or novices unable to progress because there is no one around during their play time. I think the proposal would address that, especially with professors and security linked to ministries.
I do agree that there needs to be a way to keep a leadership balance in guilds. One despot in charge is not always a good thing (and it can be almost impossible to oust someone who has family support, family honour > leadership suitability.) A balance between red tape of needing a million leaders to agree and one ruling fist is best.
Also, how would family representatives work? Would they be removed? If so, what would be the benefit of becoming the most honourable great house in the org? (It could be a great time to bring in some of those family perks purchasable with honour or something to make it less of a 'must be on top' competition and a more engaging system.)
And one other thought. I know that a lot of care and planning and consideration will go into factions. But my request/suggestion would be to not divide the orgs by the same lines, ie I hate the idea of the 'fighter' group, the 'designers/rpers' group and the 'politicians' group. Ideally you'd want those sort of people spread across all the factions, for richness and depth. I would suggest considering each org individually and splitting thematically, such as in Magnagora you could have a faction devoted to the protection and worship of Nil and Earth (a spiritual faction I suppose), a faction that is focused on expansion and transformation of the basin, the spreading of the Taint, outward focused etc, and one perhaps that is insular, the elitist noble/viscanti type attitudes that believe in their superiority and the 'purity' of their tainted nature and culture......I don't know, these are just half baked ideas, but I just wanted to get the point out there about coming up with something more overarching than pkers/rpers/politicians.
I'm nervous, really nervous about it. I do wince at the very idea, but I am being optimistic that it can be done, so long as it is done somewhat gently and very very thoughtfully. I think a lot of existing guild lore can easily be preserved and adapted, if it's done carefully.
I think the family rep can be there to be the tie breaker, as is the case currently (except with Gaudi/Halli who only have 4 GMs instead of 5)
And yeah, definitely let the players decide their faction themes. Settle on a number, 3 is good - what three, and how to choose the three, and the ideology/themes of the three etc should be up to the players.
What I'm suggesting isn't dividing the factions into sub-factions, it's just pointing out that a lot of what people want to keep about guilds can survive with only minor additions to the clan mechanic.
Achaean High Clans are differentiated from regular clans in a similar way that Historic Houses are differentiated from mere Great Houses. You develop some RP, get other people to participate in it, contact administration, make a case, and if you pass your clan is added to a list of dedicated RP clans that have been vetted by administration. Your clan leader then gets the power to retitle people in the clan, the clan doesn't count towards your clan limit (so it's more guild-ish in that sense), and you're considered an organization for the purposes of diplomacy, albeit a tiny one.
I'm just struggling to see how ritualist guild lore could reasonably be incorporated into a broader factional system without lumping together all of an org's ritualism into a single bloc. As long as the same experienced players stick around, they can probably keep things going just fine, but without a structure, if they leave the org or the game, that roleplay dries right up, a lot of lore going with it. Allowing those portions of the guilds to continue to exist outside of the voting schemes (in the way that Orders exist in a separate system to the guilds) and outside of the heads of the players currently doing that rp makes a lot of sense to me.
Putting makeup on a pig doesn't change the fact that its still a pig. Merging and destroying guilds and building towards factions is not revolutionary enough to increase the population, while at the same time being enough of a shinkick to some people that will feel slighted about it and may leave.
This is not going to solve the issue, there are times when I am the only member of my organization on. No amount of factions will solve that, and it will destroy one of the unique parts about Lusternia compared to the other IRE games.
Improve the outdated organization mechanics, allow ministry customization, and allow people to hold more than one elected position. That's a band aid solution that doesn't piss anyone off, does not remove guildhalls, nor remove cool flavor items like the Nil Grim Horror.
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
I'm really really torn. When I think about the lore built in the Nihilists for example, and the whole lot of work poured into the help files and the guild hall and the rituals and quests on Nil it pains me to think it would be obliterated or made obsolete and broadened and watered down. It makes me feel really ill, to be honest.
And yet...I am not entirely against the notions suggested. It's never sat well with me to see inactive leaders in positions or novices unable to progress because there is no one around during their play time. I think the proposal would address that, especially with professors and security linked to ministries.
I do agree that there needs to be a way to keep a leadership balance in guilds. One despot in charge is not always a good thing (and it can be almost impossible to oust someone who has family support, family honour > leadership suitability.) A balance between red tape of needing a million leaders to agree and one ruling fist is best.
Also, how would family representatives work? Would they be removed? If so, what would be the benefit of becoming the most honourable great house in the org? (It could be a great time to bring in some of those family perks purchasable with honour or something to make it less of a 'must be on top' competition and a more engaging system.)
And one other thought. I know that a lot of care and planning and consideration will go into factions. But my request/suggestion would be to not divide the orgs by the same lines, ie I hate the idea of the 'fighter' group, the 'designers/rpers' group and the 'politicians' group. Ideally you'd want those sort of people spread across all the factions, for richness and depth. I would suggest considering each org individually and splitting thematically, such as in Magnagora you could have a faction devoted to the protection and worship of Nil and Earth (a spiritual faction I suppose), a faction that is focused on expansion and transformation of the basin, the spreading of the Taint, outward focused etc, and one perhaps that is insular, the elitist noble/viscanti type attitudes that believe in their superiority and the 'purity' of their tainted nature and culture......I don't know, these are just half baked ideas, but I just wanted to get the point out there about coming up with something more overarching than pkers/rpers/politicians.
I'm nervous, really nervous about it. I do wince at the very idea, but I am being optimistic that it can be done, so long as it is done somewhat gently and very very thoughtfully. I think a lot of existing guild lore can easily be preserved and adapted, if it's done carefully.
Family representatives aren't going anywhere. This isn't a huge plan to change how everything works. If I didn't directly mention it in the original post and it's not something that is mechanically tied to guilds, we have no plan to change it.
As I have said (several times), the admin will be working with the players in each org to determine how best to craft their individual factions. Factions will be based on org ideology, not a convenient split of serious RPers/casual RPers/PKers. My example for Hallifax was, again, for illustrative purposes and may be in no way how Hallifax's factions end up (though I think it is a decent start!).
Please keep in mind that the admin were all players once and that some of us have built these guilds either as players or as admin. If there is anything we have done in the time that I've been an admin, this is with a 100% certainty the thing I have seen the admin are the most passionate about (not counting Est's comment about combining cities).
One thing I thought Achaea got right with their House system was customizable leadership. Every House had a leader and a Head of Newcomers (potentially not applicable here if the Embassy is taking over). But the HL could also set up to five additional positions, name them, imbue them with authorities from a pool of privs, and each position could have its own set of aides. These could be adjusted based on the needs and flavor of each house without any need for admin approval.
One thing I thought Achaea got right with their House system was customizable leadership. Every House had a leader and a Head of Newcomers (potentially not applicable here if the Embassy is taking over). But the HL could also set up to five additional positions, name them, imbue them with authorities from a pool of privs, and each position could have its own set of aides. These could be adjusted based on the needs and flavor of each house without any need for admin approval.
I'm in favour of this, if this is something that can be done with the approval of the patron. I dont' want to see all of the leadership positions and their names change every time a new leader comes to power. People already try to do that with a guild's and org's RP, let's not encourage it. If it needs patron approval, at least then there's that layer of "Yeah, this is needed," or "No, you're being dumb".
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
Comments
Celest
The Ecclesiarchy
The Army of Light
The Admiralty
Gaudiguch
The Hidden Temple
The Party Party
The Freedom Party
Glomdoring
The Court of Night
The Court of Wyrd
The Black Nest
Hallifax
The Institute of Art and Science
The Skylark Company
The Bureau of Collectivism
Magnagora
The Heresiarchy
The Army of Darkness
The Workhouse
Serenwilde
The Circle of the Moon
The Circle of the Ancestors
The Sacred Grove
Also, will there be some space for class-based subgroups or dedicated RP clans with coded support? Something in the vein of High Clans, that will allow inclined players to recreate some of the 'guild' feel without forcing everyone to participate would be nice. For example: If a guildhall (like the Illuminati) isn't totally nuked, but instead is transferred to the control of a high clan based around the more secret mystical elements of the guild. That way, the Illuminati would continue to exist and would be able to handle their own advancement-esque RP, but wouldn't necessarily be a primary political force in Gaudiguch. A good example of this is how the Alchemist 'guild' worked in Achaea's Hashan. People with the alchemist class could join the Hashanite guild that allowed them in, but they could also join the "Crown's Alchemists" clan, who owned and operated the alchemy equipment and who had advancement based around roleplaying being an alchemist. It was a totally optional part of being an alchemist, but it provided a way for class-based, 'secrets' based roleplaying with a mechanical backbone.
Take Hallifax, as an example. I'm confident that an arts/science faction could sustain itself more or less forever. I do not like that particular grouping, but I'm pretty sure it could last forever. Military would probably be small but it could hold itself together. I'm not confident that a bureaucrat faction could sustain itself. There aren't very many people who play bureaucrat types. That might be because there's no guild that supports it right now, but I'm guessing that it's more because they just aren't interesting to many people. Letting factions rise and fall means that a bureaucrat faction can exist if there are people for it, but it won't become an empty group if those people go inactive. Plus, letting organic factions form based on what players do will ensure that the active factions represent the things that people are actually interested in. Administer new faction approvals the same way that approvals for getting a historical family name work. Three factions or so does seem like a good starting point, unless you want to just poll members of each city to see what they want design initial factions accordingly.
2. I'm not really sure that cross-org classflex was ever something that was truly "intended". It may stay or it may go.
3. Yes, ministers will still be appointed. Nothing about city ministries is planned to change except for the Security and Ambassador changes in the original post.
Yes, the Shofangi had little information about Bull to start with. But then the players decided they would all but jettison anything having to do with Bull. So it wasn't just that nothing was built around Bull--there was a dedicated effort to prevent it.
Ew, Manses. Manses are a really poor way of adding any kind of concrete flavor, because they are by nature totally and completely non-concrete. I can walk into any manse, look at all of the descriptions, and make my manse be an exact copy of that manse, yawn. It's something fundamentally different to have real, coded support for real areas of the game with administrative legitimacy. Deepnight and similar endeavors didn't take off for a reason - they were totally divorced from the 'realities' of the rest of the game, gated into their own 'do whatever' section of the code. Likewise, any player can create a clan that purports to be anything and play make believe with roleplaying that utterly breaks from Lusternian lore, if they want.
The point was not to gate off class abilities, but to allow guild identities that necessarily revolved around a sense of separateness that couldn't carry into a factions system to continue to exist to some degree, and maintain that feel for characters to whom those identities are central. In other words, having some mechanical construct that allows people devoted to the inner teachings of Hart (or Crow or Night/Moon) and the bond with others who are devoted to those ideals, because that probably won't translate into a faction. Having a priesthood of Moon would make a valuable apolitical addition to a faction system, and having tools in place to make that experience something beyond what you can get in a freeform chat room is probably a good idea.
Honestly, being able to create your own Faction isn't really going to work with this system. The idea is to reduce the number of guilds due to population issues, not make it a variable number. It also creates the opportunity for some situations where players spend time creating an organization that gets rejected, leading to hurt feelings among players and putting the org patron on the position of being the "bad guy/gal".
I don't know, I think it's perfectly possible to do really cool things without a lot of code support. For the Serenguard vision quests, there's now a brand new mechanical thing that can be done to make them a little easier, but other than that, the entire premise, organization, and structure is "in the wind", not coded by anything. Places like Deepnight didn't succeed partly because, as you say, they were totally divorced out in an aethermanse, but also because Deepnight was a MASSIVE undertaking intending to replicate a fully functional city out of nothing.
Family representatives aren't going anywhere. This isn't a huge plan to change how everything works. If I didn't directly mention it in the original post and it's not something that is mechanically tied to guilds, we have no plan to change it.
As I have said (several times), the admin will be working with the players in each org to determine how best to craft their individual factions. Factions will be based on org ideology, not a convenient split of serious RPers/casual RPers/PKers. My example for Hallifax was, again, for illustrative purposes and may be in no way how Hallifax's factions end up (though I think it is a decent start!).
Please keep in mind that the admin were all players once and that some of us have built these guilds either as players or as admin. If there is anything we have done in the time that I've been an admin, this is with a 100% certainty the thing I have seen the admin are the most passionate about (not counting Est's comment about combining cities).
I am not sure you want that kind of drama.
(I didn't mention it when I first read that, but now that you have brought it up again...)
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."