I can be wrong, but I believe Saran is talking about the initial pushback and groaning given for yet another PK event. The pushback and groaning, mainly, being from the players that feel there are bigger issues than not having enough ways to murder the opposition. Due to the perceived (Using this word specifically since it has been said as much by both players and admins until evidence can be supplied to show the imbalances) imbalances, many players are already not engaging in combat or other conflict mechanics simply because there is no point. So to them, yet another way to just have a loss rubbed in their face is being introduced.
So the statements such as the ones that are being brushed aside, are valid to the people making them and to the people of relatable mindsets. It is a feeling of oppression to them and kind of just feels like you're shushing them all the while whispering, "Just let it happen." Whether that is the case or not, doesn't necessarily matter, because perception is what drives people's opinions. Therefore, if the perception is "they don't care about us" you're going to receive these kind of statements.
Timequakes looks amazing in concept. However, I doubt I will participate regularly because it will be getting jumped by more people, so it is literally just going to be another buff to make the snowball larger. I actually dread the release of it because I will want to test it out, but our side will be grossly outnumbered. More often than not Glom/Gaudi/Celest has at least 2-3 more than Halli/Mag/Seren. There was one domoth I remember that we had more. We won that domoth. It wasn't that the others needed to git good. They were outnumbered.
One of the goals with timequakes is that because they are random and often, there will be more opportunities to participate as city populations flux throughout the day. This should lead to more situations of having more equitable fights. There will no doubt be ones that favor one side or the other still, but some of them should appear more even.
Only implementation and time will tell. I'm certain those that spoke against the new event-type will give it a fair shake when they are able to and give their feedback on the experience. There's no sarcasm or digs being made, I know I can come off that way and it's not intended.
Hence a combat score suggestion. Tarken has combat value 5, so you could fight him with 5 people who are value 1. Etc.
Eh, this is literally saying that Tarken is 5 times better than the average person. I think this is really the viewpoint, and if that is the case then we will never be able to agree there is an issue. We will continue to put our heads in the sand, and ignore the dwindling "Halli/Mag/Seren". If only we would be positive and git good instead of moving on. The point is Hallifax/Mag/Seren has PvP population issues, so much so that I am ignoring playing my favorite Org because I don't want to further the divide. However, let's ignore the data and continue to allow this side to lose valuable players. Winning by default is not a win in my books.
(Keep in mind I'm using Tarken as a random example. I don't want to single any one person out here.)
IF the goal is to make competitive parts of Lusternia truly competitive, so say Wildnodes and Domoths, then an MMR system makes sense to me. Players are forcibly matched into a rough equivalent of combat scores, and then can PVP. And at some point in competitive settings, yes, you do just have to 'git gud'. Like that's not the literal advice I would ever give to anyone who wanted to get better, but the idea behind it being that if you engage in competition, your own motivation is getting better. Again, this is IF you want to make and play Lusternia (or parts of) as a competitive game.
To that end, could make timequakes divorced from orgs and make it all about teams... like I could make a team with players from any org, and only the players in that team would get benefits. Hrm.
IF the goal is to instead just allow anyone to compete, then, that's a different conversation. I understood that was originally your point, the MMR system was brought up as a suggestion to add onto other things. For example, you could just make things hard limits. You hold 3 villages already, you are unable to enter any more villages during this revolt. At 14 villages, this would mean most orgs would hold at least one village.
The MMR system is good in theory, but anybody who has participated in PvP, in almost any sense game (I meant game), knows that the more bodies will win over skill. If we continue Tarken being 5 and say, Lycidas and his Fantastic Four (all worth 1 point because we suck) are now worth that 5 points. We could be awful, and we are, and still win that fight simply because skill does not make up for taking up to five times the normal pressure any individual exerts. Assuming this was implemented, there would always be lopsided numbers, in someone's favor, and would no longer be competitive. If we sent in three 1-pointers would this system allow Tarken to enter to compete, or keep him out because 5 is greater than 3?
I don't know, heh. I suggest something, you suggest something, we come up with a great something is how this works.
The numbers are flexible, obviously. So if you were to do something like +x points for value of combat artifacts, +y points for level, +z points for previous number of 'wins' in wildnodes/domoths. As you lose, that number decreases. So it would be self-correcting, to some extent.
And there would be some leeway. Like if Glom has MMR 15 active on astral during nodes, then another org can have 13-17 MMR activate.
We'd have to either use decimals for artifacts, or truly define what a combat artifact is, otherwise we're gonna have some biggies rollin 50+ points just for existing before other variables. I'd be fine with levels 1-79 being 0 points, 80-99 being 1 point, and 100+ being 2 points in this kind of system. The idea for win/loss affecting points is also nice, but it needs to be made a ground rule it cannot go below zero, with other stipulations. You gain a point just by participating in the event, this is so people can't pop in and help, then dodge out before event ends to avoid scaling up. You only lose points, however, by being present at the time of a loss. This counters the other aspect, so that people can't jump in, poke, then leave just to lower their score.
Hence a combat score suggestion. Tarken has combat value 5, so you could fight him with 5 people who are value 1. Etc.
Eh, this is literally saying that Tarken is 5 times better than the average person. I think this is really the viewpoint, and if that is the case then we will never be able to agree there is an issue. We will continue to put our heads in the sand, and ignore the dwindling "Halli/Mag/Seren". If only we would be positive and git good instead of moving on. The point is Hallifax/Mag/Seren has PvP population issues, so much so that I am ignoring playing my favorite Org because I don't want to further the divide. However, let's ignore the data and continue to allow this side to lose valuable players. Winning by default is not a win in my books.
You gotta love the idea, though, that not only does our side have 5 people to send against Tarken, but one additional person for each member of Glomdoring or Celest or Gaudiguch that show up, so it'll be "even". I mean... Jesus. If we could do that, there would be no problem at all. It's almost as if one side is entirely divorced from the reality of what being on the other side is like.
Honestly, Innon, I wouldn't worry about the divide at this point. PVP doesn't exist, and no one wants it back.
The way I'm picturing it, is simply that the alliances are technically still doing what has been done throughout Lusternia's history. That is fighting each other's anathemas, the fact of the matter and yes the reality is the lacking of combatants on your end. I could go into some examples of what I mean but it'd be obvious to what I just said. I mean, Avurekhos resurrected his dream IronHart with a twist no? Also, why not consider advertising other mudding friends of yours to get them into Lusternia and play on your team(?) That'd be a strong suggestion whereas numbers are concerned and I still suggest that there is some encouragement to teach Serenwilders how to contribute to your causes. It's not to say that I am noticing one or two Serens being proactive in your alliance's causes, but that'd be another great boon if competitiveness and gaining ground is concerned. Last thing you'd want to do is put even MORE stress on the admin as I have seen over the years when complaints come up. I'm not saying I didn't contribute, but I don't go running to the forums at every minute's turn about it either. Just look at yourselves and your allies and evaluate what is lacking there as well is all.
It doesn't really matter if you are a nice person and not contributing to the (percieved) oppression of the rest of the game by a certain org, people are mostly going to lump you all together, or say 'Well, you're in the org and the org is oppressive so you're obviously not doing anything to stop it'.
That's part of why I left Celest despite my love of Aquamancy, what Serenwilde thinks of her matters to Daxi, and unlike in previous times I was active, I had run out of excuses to tolerate the alliance with Glomdoring, plus it really felt like Celest has just gone full-on crusade, nothing matters as long as we win because we are the Light. (I'm not sure that is actually true of Celest, but it's what Daxi saw when she returned, a severe lack of something like the old Aquamancers guild that cared more about being scholars and sea-keepers than about the Supernals.)
I think the part of the full-on crusade is false, and by all means, Minkahmet has never heard/seen Daxi in almost the entire time he has been the prince. Admittedly it could've been you've been dormant/opposite timezones or whatever, but other than that, he has never heard of you until this in the log: 2019/03/06 21:26:04 - Daxi quit the city. That day anyway. I try to employ the rp of enacting tenets of Elohora in balancing everything of each Supernal and their tenets. It might seem like a constant phase of Methrenton's tenets, but that usually only happens when we need to defend or counterattack Magnagora/Hallifax when they raid us, and unfortunately my character, as well as another two or three of us, aren't just going to sit idly on our thumbs like nothing ever happened. Nonetheless, there are actually a fair few of the citizens who don't or can't contribute in that fashion and there's nothing wrong with that and often a thing one can connect to other people who have similar likings/tastes/preferences like you. I do hope Serenwilde will treat you warmly as you get settled in and nothing but the best for your character.
A novel idea, never thought to try and brings friends or other acquaintances to the game! Pardon the cattiness, meant more in jest than anything, but that suggestion really holds no weight as I think that is an exhausted option, even for both sides of the argument. Serenwilde definitely has its own problems to deal with first, and from what I've heard, steps are being taken. Regardless, and I will keep saying this, numbers will always trump talent, skill, time invested, whatever you want to call it. There is also the problem that some of the Serens have this glorious mindset of, "Ewww undeath!" and make sure to do nothing with us, even if we're trying to give them things.
The main issue people have with Glomdoring is the number of capable -and- willing (that and is very important) people to partake in combat, where other orgs lack that. Whether from actual desolate populations or people just tired of being beaten regardless how hard they try, that isn't the discussion though. The population that is capable but not willing, have their reasons, that they hold as valid, and are leaving because they're either not being addressed or being turned away. Can we all agree that is the case at the bare minimum?
Want to bring up my hard-cap idea again, by itself. What's wrong with it/poke hole sin it. It doesn't resolve the problem of participation, really, but it does make it so one org can't just constantly steamroll. If you win wildnodes, you cannot go up on astral during the next one. If you hold 3 villages, you cannot enter more villages during revolts. If you killed x number of demons or fae during this weave, you cannot enter nil/ethereal until the next weave.
Hence a combat score suggestion. Tarken has combat value 5, so you could fight him with 5 people who are value 1. Etc.
Eh, this is literally saying that Tarken is 5 times better than the average person. I think this is really the viewpoint, and if that is the case then we will never be able to agree there is an issue. We will continue to put our heads in the sand, and ignore the dwindling "Halli/Mag/Seren". If only we would be positive and git good instead of moving on. The point is Hallifax/Mag/Seren has PvP population issues, so much so that I am ignoring playing my favorite Org because I don't want to further the divide. However, let's ignore the data and continue to allow this side to lose valuable players. Winning by default is not a win in my books.
You gotta love the idea, though, that not only does our side have 5 people to send against Tarken, but one additional person for each member of Glomdoring or Celest or Gaudiguch that show up, so it'll be "even". I mean... Jesus. If we could do that, there would be no problem at all. It's almost as if one side is entirely divorced from the reality of what being on the other side is like.
Honestly, Innon, I wouldn't worry about the divide at this point. PVP doesn't exist, and no one wants it back.
The way I'm picturing it, is simply that the alliances are technically still doing what has been done throughout Lusternia's history. That is fighting each other's anathemas, the fact of the matter and yes the reality is the lacking of combatants on your end. I could go into some examples of what I mean but it'd be obvious to what I just said. I mean, Avurekhos resurrected his dream IronHart with a twist no? Also, why not consider advertising other mudding friends of yours to get them into Lusternia and play on your team) That'd be a strong suggestion whereas numbers are concerned and I still suggest that there is some encouragement to teach Serenwilders how to contribute to your causes. It's not to say that I am noticing one or two Serens being proactive in your alliance's causes, but that'd be another great boon if competitiveness and gaining ground is concerned. Last thing you'd want to do is put even MORE stress on the admin as I have seen over the years when complaints come up. I'm not saying I didn't contribute, but I don't go running to the forums at every minute's turn about it either. Just look at yourselves and your allies and evaluate what is lacking there as well is all.
Uh, yeah, the combatants on our end gave up after being hopelessly outnumbered 20 times too many, and most of them have fled to other muds/other games. For I while I protested, but it's really not fair for me to do so when logging on is a chore and even when we have some numbers, it won't be enough. The last time I remember being able to batphone successfully was during the last Wildnodes, and yeah... that went as expected. So why should we bother?
As for my other mudding friends, they all play Aetolia, and they're aware that Lusternia has half the numbers and too much forum anger and salt (unless you're trading it for goop of course). I can't convince friends to play a game that I barely enjoy. As it is, I am tired of the suggestions that the problem is just that we suck, that we're negative, or that we just need to try harder to force people to play/pk who don't want to. I'm sorry for the admin, as I think for the most part it isn't their fault, but we keep saying the same things over and over, and getting the same useless suggestions back. Edit: From other players, mostly.
Now, I am no great combatant. I also don't have the time right now to sit and work out strategies and do testing and write code for it, let alone force other people to do it, too. Even if I did, it would mean less time of the only things I still enjoy in this game: Writing and roleplaying with people. And with the increasingly smaller population of willing combatants, I'm supposed to do more of what I don't have time for already to make up for their slack, too? This is literally what 'the snowball effect' means. I can't fix it myself, and neither can anyone else on my side. I don't know what you think you'd even do differently, but I'd love to see evidence that it'd work.
"Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
At this point I cannot in good conscience recommenced this game to my friends as a way to get more even numbers. Because then they would have to try and learn combat which will consist of them getting smacked down over and over, and then they would get frustrated, and question my sanity for continuing to play in such a one-sided conflict. It's just easier to play something that's actually fun for them.
One of the goals with timequakes is that because they are random and often, there will be more opportunities to participate as city populations flux throughout the day. This should lead to more situations of having more equitable fights. There will no doubt be ones that favor one side or the other still, but some of them should appear more even.
Haha. This is painfully naive. Batphones still exist (and I'm definitely not against it, as a concept; you can't expect everyone to stay logged in and waiting 24/7). The idea that "okay, Glomdoring has 3 people and Serenwilde has 9, surely Serenwilde can win this," is broken. I'm almost worried that this is what constitutes as balance according to the admin.
Timequakes are just another combat mechanic that is geared towards securing Glomdoring's perpetual topdog position. This will just broaden the gap between Glomdoring and its allies versus the rest of the game. Essentially, implementing this before addressing the discrepancies between skills was a colossal waste of resources, because timequakes will now further add to the already-muddied waters of combat (on top of all the wondercrystal, goop, and all the rest of the cashgrab artifacts that Lusternia has introduced over the years).
There's "nothing to do" because there's nothing you can do against Glomdoring. That's the root of the issue, and all the distraction from this continues to undermine the admin's insistence that they're impartial.
One of the goals with timequakes is that because they are random and often, there will be more opportunities to participate as city populations flux throughout the day. This should lead to more situations of having more equitable fights. There will no doubt be ones that favor one side or the other still, but some of them should appear more even.
Haha. This is painfully naive. Batphones still exist (and I'm definitely not against it, as a concept; you can't expect everyone to stay logged in and waiting 24/7). The idea that "okay, Glomdoring has 3 people and Serenwilde has 9, surely Serenwilde can win this," is broken. I'm almost worried that this is what constitutes as balance according to the admin.
Timequakes are just another combat mechanic that is geared towards securing Glomdoring's perpetual topdog position. This will just broaden the gap between Glomdoring and its allies versus the rest of the game. Essentially, implementing this before addressing the discrepancies between skills was a colossal waste of resources, because timequakes will now further add to the already-muddied waters of combat (on top of all the wondercrystal, goop, and all the rest of the cashgrab artifacts that Lusternia has introduced over the years).
Sure, batphones exist -- the Lusternia twitter account tweets when Big Events and Little Events run by admins and players. It tweets Wildnodes starting - which is a Big Conflict Event. Lusternia is batphoning everyone! So.. you can't really shame others for batphoning for any other combat event. It's going to happen. It happens on every side.
Batphoning is really only a problem when you are trying to ninja domoth which is literally just avoiding conflict. Imo, that entire mechanic is flawed in such a small population.
Let's be real. Who is to blame? We are. Alliances are run by players. Every action we take has consequences. Look at Ascension. Malarious literally made it fun and competitive. Yes, we lost, but it was because we lost. Losing is okay. The issue is alliances are too set in stone. There should be more disputes between orgs. Each org on its own will have lulls and weakness (even Glom). Let's be real Gaudi and Celest will never leave Glom's side, but if you truly wanted PvP then split the alliances. Imagine a wild nodes where it was an actual free for all. Honestly, why is Hallifax so cozy with Magnagora? Serenwilde should hate everyone. Celest should want to take it's place as the "rightful" place a king and punish any that step out of line. Magnagora should be wanting to rule us all with an iron fist and cull the weak. Gaudiguch should be a wild card playing by they're own rules. Glom should be focused on spreading the wyrd everywhere. It is the entire basis of the game, but because we want the safe and sure wins we create these 3v3 alliances.
I would love to see villages where orgs would fight any org. I would like to see wildnodes have nodes ticking at different orgs spheres. This would make it chaotic, fun, and eventful.
Let's have an understanding between leaders that we keep raids and defenders between 1-2 players between raiders and defenders. I would gladly hang back. I have seen some Glom's do this before too.
We have an amazing lore. We have a great game. We have taken it and turned it two sides with little org importance.
Honestly, Hallifax and Magnagora getting along doesn't really seem far-fetched to me. To my understanding, Hallifax is all about maintaining order, harmony, and scholarly works. They're the ones mistaken for mad scientists making death rays, or possibly chaining up their criminals to use as a renewable power generation source. On the flip side, you'll have the extremely calm and collected that sips tea and speaks in the utmost correct fashion. Magnagora also fits that, just replace mistaken mad scientists for actual, and the proper speakers for nobles. Same place, different skin.
Except for the fact that Halli took a firm stance against the taint and blew it toward Glom. I would also say Hallifax would think themselves higher than Magnagora.
I mean it's not like the Magnagora of the past stared up into the sky with empty bowls going, "Can I have some more?" People miss that crucial link, Magnagora never made it their goal to be tainted. But instead of just wallowing in self-pity and loathing, they decided to embrace their alterations and run with it, to prove to everyone just how strong they were. It bothers me that Magnagora gets labeled as a city of evil, even by the website's briefing, when the history clearly paints them as survivors of a really unfortunate event.
I mean it's not like the Magnagora of the past stared up into the sky with empty bowls going, "Can I have some more?" People miss that crucial link, Magnagora never made it their goal to be tainted. But instead of just wallowing in self-pity and loathing, they decided to embrace their alterations and run with it, to prove to everyone just how strong they were. It bothers me that Magnagora gets labeled as a city of evil, even by the website's briefing, when the history clearly paints them as survivors of a really unfortunate event.
Not labeling Magnagora evil. Just saying Hallifax views itself as more sophisticated and higher functioning. You also have Isune and her teaching that clash with Mag.
Batphoning is really only a problem when you are trying to ninja domoth which is literally just avoiding conflict. Imo, that entire mechanic is flawed in such a small population.
Let's be real. Who is to blame? We are. Alliances are run by players. Every action we take has consequences. Look at Ascension. Malarious literally made it fun and competitive. Yes, we lost, but it was because we lost. Losing is okay. The issue is alliances are too set in stone. There should be more disputes between orgs. Each org on its own will have lulls and weakness (even Glom). Let's be real Gaudi and Celest will never leave Glom's side, but if you truly wanted PvP then split the alliances. Imagine a wild nodes where it was an actual free for all. Honestly, why is Hallifax so cozy with Magnagora? Serenwilde should hate everyone. Celest should want to take it's place as the "rightful" place a king and punish any that step out of line. Magnagora should be wanting to rule us all with an iron fist and cull the weak. Gaudiguch should be a wild card playing by they're own rules. Glom should be focused on spreading the wyrd everywhere. It is the entire basis of the game, but because we want the safe and sure wins we create these 3v3 alliances.
I would love to see villages where orgs would fight any org. I would like to see wildnodes have nodes ticking at different orgs spheres. This would make it chaotic, fun, and eventful.
Let's have an understanding between leaders that we keep raids and defenders between 1-2 players between raiders and defenders. I would gladly hang back. I have seen some Glom's do this before too.
We have an amazing lore. We have a great game. We have taken it and turned it two sides with little org importance.
This is just my opinion though.
Alliances stem from the fact that if you go at it alone a bigger org will come after you. If Gaudiguch where to go alone at a domoth it would not be just Hallifax coming after them, it would be Hallifax and Magnagora. Likewise if Hallifax goes at it alone a bigger org like Celest would go after them. This results in alliances. The fact alliances are so inflexible has multiple reasons.
Since Gaudi is the most recent to actively consider its alliance I'll show you my reasons for not changing alliance:
Allying with Hallifax would be a mess, we tried this before and phantheon went oh no you don't
As we were considering post ascension I took cross sections of engagements that were happening, in the majority of those engagements Glomdoring/Celest was at that time outnumbered (do note this was while I was around, I can't speak for other times)
The neutral route I wanted originally would result in not being able to participate in conflict at all, eg no villages, no domoths, no future timethings, no raiding. The only thing we might be able to do was flares and that is if nobody else showed up. Neutral = get bullied by everyone.
These are my reasons though, I am sure others have other reasons.
You need to read what I wrote. I am a fan of batphones. My point was that batphones negate the "oh the topdog org has only a few people at this time, surely the dregs can win this" scenario that the admins naively think was the best solution to Lusternia's problems
Batphoning is really only a problem when you are trying to ninja domoth which is literally just avoiding conflict. Imo, that entire mechanic is flawed in such a small population.
Let's be real. Who is to blame? We are. Alliances are run by players. Every action we take has consequences. Look at Ascension. Malarious literally made it fun and competitive. Yes, we lost, but it was because we lost. Losing is okay. The issue is alliances are too set in stone. There should be more disputes between orgs. Each org on its own will have lulls and weakness (even Glom). Let's be real Gaudi and Celest will never leave Glom's side, but if you truly wanted PvP then split the alliances. Imagine a wild nodes where it was an actual free for all. Honestly, why is Hallifax so cozy with Magnagora? Serenwilde should hate everyone. Celest should want to take it's place as the "rightful" place a king and punish any that step out of line. Magnagora should be wanting to rule us all with an iron fist and cull the weak. Gaudiguch should be a wild card playing by they're own rules. Glom should be focused on spreading the wyrd everywhere. It is the entire basis of the game, but because we want the safe and sure wins we create these 3v3 alliances.
I would love to see villages where orgs would fight any org. I would like to see wildnodes have nodes ticking at different orgs spheres. This would make it chaotic, fun, and eventful.
Let's have an understanding between leaders that we keep raids and defenders between 1-2 players between raiders and defenders. I would gladly hang back. I have seen some Glom's do this before too.
We have an amazing lore. We have a great game. We have taken it and turned it two sides with little org importance.
This is just my opinion though.
Alliances stem from the fact that if you go at it alone a bigger org will come after you. If Gaudiguch where to go alone at a domoth it would not be just Hallifax coming after them, it would be Hallifax and Magnagora. Likewise if Hallifax goes at it alone a bigger org like Celest would go after them. This results in alliances. The fact alliances are so inflexible has multiple reasons.
Since Gaudi is the most recent to actively consider its alliance I'll show you my reasons for not changing alliance:
Allying with Hallifax would be a mess, we tried this before and phantheon went oh no you don't
As we were considering post ascension I took cross sections of engagements that were happening, in the majority of those engagements Glomdoring/Celest was at that time outnumbered (do note this was while I was around, I can't speak for other times)
The neutral route I wanted originally would result in not being able to participate in conflict at all, eg no villages, no domoths, no future timethings, no raiding. The only thing we might be able to do was flares and that is if nobody else showed up. Neutral = get bullied by everyone.
These are my reasons though, I am sure others have other reasons.
In current game, Celest, Glom, nor Hallifax should be aligned. Gaudiguch is actually my favorite org flavor wise, but I play on this side because of population. Honestly, I think the number of combatants right now are ranked Glom>Celest~Halli>Mag (Depending)> Gaudi > Seren. This is sheer average number of combatants. I never expect Gaudi to leave Glom. However, add you and Dys to the Glom/Celest army and we never have a chance. Mag used to be one of the larger PvP pops, but they were hit hardest by the retirees.
Edit: If you are saying post-ascension that Glom/Gaudi/Celest has been outnumbered then I need logs. Because that is untrue.
in all seriousness, this topic has been hashed out to death. The admins have decided to side with Glomdoring and maintain the status quo. Nothing is going to change.
Move on.
The admin deciding to maintain the status quo is absolutely false. A goal that I've stated multiple times is that I want everyone to feel like they can compete. That's the direction we're heading when we look at things like the mage revamp etc. It's something I think we achieved with the Aeonics rework and it's something we'll continue to work towards. We recently reworked two major complaint artifacts and are looking at a third. We are making strides, but it takes time. We'll continue to make strides.
Prioritising a brand new conflict system over continuing in this "direction" really doesn't help the look of things. Reading over the forums, it seems as though what's coming next is another opportunity for the "winners" to extend their lead and for the "losers" to feel bad about themselves. If I'd had to deal with some of the bonuses being suggested while I was active, I'd be logging out the moment any raiding started.
There's a thread for these kind of comments, feel free to comment there with your concerns!
The fourth comment in that thread expresses concern about it and then is dismissed.
Actions speak louder than words, in the current context of the game the administration decided it was more important to add in yet another conflict mechanism rather than dedicating the dev time spent on that to bringing more equivalence across the orgs.
If equivalence was the focus then would it not be the focus right now and be receiving the same "nothing can get in the way" treatment Timequakes is receiving?
I said 'A goal', not the 'only goal.' Timequakes are being focused on because they address a few other major complaints, most notably the 'there's nothing to do' complaint.
I don't understand how choosing to focus on one thing means that anything else we state about our other intentions or other goals is suddenly false and not true, even when it's backed up by action (ie, aeonics report). I think this is a perfect example of the 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' phrase. No matter what we do, a subset of players will be upset that we're not doing something they want us to do.
As one of the players that mentioned the complaint about having nothing to do, they really don't. Particularly because not everyone that was looking for stuff to do was a combatant.
There are comments all over the forums and even in this thread about how the current state of conflict is apparently driving even people interested in PvP away from the game depending on the "side" you're on (which in turn is negatively impacting the other "side" when they're looking for a fight).
So who actually gets to enjoy this system? Given the current bonus layout we'd logically expect those dominating domoths, flares, and villages to accelerate pretty quickly through the research which would in turn make them better at various things including the Timequakes leading to some snowballing.
But on top of that, once they start hitting capstones, which you would expect them to faster, at this point they're going to have all these interesting raiding powers that are liable to make the smaller orgs lives hell as the larger ones start playing with them.
Sure, maybe if a timequake happens during some time of the where the smaller orgs have larger numbers AND the larger orgs don't have people they can batphone (or the game can batphone for them) then maybe the smaller orgs might be able to scrape some points together. But that doesn't really do anything for the people stuck in the prime time for the "winners".
We also have no idea if sharing anomalies is possible, how long they last to be converted into power, how much power, etc. Regardless of those answers, there will be no conflict, simply because playing big brother can happen. It happens in every revolt, flare, you name it. "Don't mind us, we're just security forces, you go on ahead little buddy."
We also have no idea if sharing anomalies is possible, how long they last to be converted into power, how much power, etc. Regardless of those answers, there will be no conflict, simply because playing big brother can happen. It happens in every revolt, flare, you name it. "Don't mind us, we're just security forces, you go on ahead little buddy."
Batphoning is really only a problem when you are trying to ninja domoth which is literally just avoiding conflict. Imo, that entire mechanic is flawed in such a small population.
Let's be real. Who is to blame? We are. Alliances are run by players. Every action we take has consequences. Look at Ascension. Malarious literally made it fun and competitive. Yes, we lost, but it was because we lost. Losing is okay. The issue is alliances are too set in stone. There should be more disputes between orgs. Each org on its own will have lulls and weakness (even Glom). Let's be real Gaudi and Celest will never leave Glom's side, but if you truly wanted PvP then split the alliances. Imagine a wild nodes where it was an actual free for all. Honestly, why is Hallifax so cozy with Magnagora? Serenwilde should hate everyone. Celest should want to take it's place as the "rightful" place a king and punish any that step out of line. Magnagora should be wanting to rule us all with an iron fist and cull the weak. Gaudiguch should be a wild card playing by they're own rules. Glom should be focused on spreading the wyrd everywhere. It is the entire basis of the game, but because we want the safe and sure wins we create these 3v3 alliances.
I would love to see villages where orgs would fight any org. I would like to see wildnodes have nodes ticking at different orgs spheres. This would make it chaotic, fun, and eventful.
Let's have an understanding between leaders that we keep raids and defenders between 1-2 players between raiders and defenders. I would gladly hang back. I have seen some Glom's do this before too.
We have an amazing lore. We have a great game. We have taken it and turned it two sides with little org importance.
This is just my opinion though.
Alliances stem from the fact that if you go at it alone a bigger org will come after you. If Gaudiguch where to go alone at a domoth it would not be just Hallifax coming after them, it would be Hallifax and Magnagora. Likewise if Hallifax goes at it alone a bigger org like Celest would go after them. This results in alliances. The fact alliances are so inflexible has multiple reasons.
Since Gaudi is the most recent to actively consider its alliance I'll show you my reasons for not changing alliance:
Allying with Hallifax would be a mess, we tried this before and phantheon went oh no you don't
As we were considering post ascension I took cross sections of engagements that were happening, in the majority of those engagements Glomdoring/Celest was at that time outnumbered (do note this was while I was around, I can't speak for other times)
The neutral route I wanted originally would result in not being able to participate in conflict at all, eg no villages, no domoths, no future timethings, no raiding. The only thing we might be able to do was flares and that is if nobody else showed up. Neutral = get bullied by everyone.
These are my reasons though, I am sure others have other reasons.
No one said this time that couldn't happen, so you're making an excuse for wanting to be on the side with superior numbers/won Ascension.
Not a chance. This time, I'm demanding evidence.
Neutral route only works if everyone agrees to it, sure.
None of this is about you, personally. The entire system is broken, and encourages choices that make it worse.
"Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
Timequakes literally sit at the intersection of multiple complaints and even seems set to not only revive the quitting because you're getting raided but make it significantly worse with the current capstones. (given the expectation the smaller orgs wouldn't be able to sustain them to protect themselves)
Hence a combat score suggestion. Tarken has combat value 5, so you could fight him with 5 people who are value 1. Etc.
Eh, this is literally saying that Tarken is 5 times better than the average person. I think this is really the viewpoint, and if that is the case then we will never be able to agree there is an issue. We will continue to put our heads in the sand, and ignore the dwindling "Halli/Mag/Seren". If only we would be positive and git good instead of moving on. The point is Hallifax/Mag/Seren has PvP population issues, so much so that I am ignoring playing my favorite Org because I don't want to further the divide. However, let's ignore the data and continue to allow this side to lose valuable players. Winning by default is not a win in my books.
You gotta love the idea, though, that not only does our side have 5 people to send against Tarken, but one additional person for each member of Glomdoring or Celest or Gaudiguch that show up, so it'll be "even". I mean... Jesus. If we could do that, there would be no problem at all. It's almost as if one side is entirely divorced from the reality of what being on the other side is like.
Honestly, Innon, I wouldn't worry about the divide at this point. PVP doesn't exist, and no one wants it back.
The way I'm picturing it, is simply that the alliances are technically still doing what has been done throughout Lusternia's history. That is fighting each other's anathemas, the fact of the matter and yes the reality is the lacking of combatants on your end. I could go into some examples of what I mean but it'd be obvious to what I just said. I mean, Avurekhos resurrected his dream IronHart with a twist no? Also, why not consider advertising other mudding friends of yours to get them into Lusternia and play on your team) That'd be a strong suggestion whereas numbers are concerned and I still suggest that there is some encouragement to teach Serenwilders how to contribute to your causes. It's not to say that I am noticing one or two Serens being proactive in your alliance's causes, but that'd be another great boon if competitiveness and gaining ground is concerned. Last thing you'd want to do is put even MORE stress on the admin as I have seen over the years when complaints come up. I'm not saying I didn't contribute, but I don't go running to the forums at every minute's turn about it either. Just look at yourselves and your allies and evaluate what is lacking there as well is all.
Uh, yeah, the combatants on our end gave up after being hopelessly outnumbered 20 times too many, and most of them have fled to other muds/other games. For I while I protested, but it's really not fair for me to do so when logging on is a chore and even when we have some numbers, it won't be enough. The last time I remember being able to batphone successfully was during the last Wildnodes, and yeah... that went as expected. So why should we bother?
As for my other mudding friends, they all play Aetolia, and they're aware that Lusternia has half the numbers and too much forum anger and salt (unless you're trading it for goop of course). I can't convince friends to play a game that I barely enjoy. As it is, I am tired of the suggestions that the problem is just that we suck, that we're negative, or that we just need to try harder to force people to play/pk who don't want to. I'm sorry for the admin, as I think for the most part it isn't their fault, but we keep saying the same things over and over, and getting the same useless suggestions back. Edit: From other players, mostly.
Now, I am no great combatant. I also don't have the time right now to sit and work out strategies and do testing and write code for it, let alone force other people to do it, too. Even if I did, it would mean less time of the only things I still enjoy in this game: Writing and roleplaying with people. And with the increasingly smaller population of willing combatants, I'm supposed to do more of what I don't have time for already to make up for their slack, too? This is literally what 'the snowball effect' means. I can't fix it myself, and neither can anyone else on my side. I don't know what you think you'd even do differently, but I'd love to see evidence that it'd work.
Although it may seem irrelevant to you, even small tricks blossom into the larger scheme of things to work out. Like how Saz and I are able to shut down a few key players on Glomdoring side when we worked together cohesively and figured out it is possible and how to wiggle what throws a crux in their offense and that is all I'm going to say about it. You have to be willing to spend time on your craft and make it work and not be so simple enough to give up at the first death or two. Now if you magnify that same critical thinking with the next person and the next and so on..it'll click and you expand your discoveries to others. That's the Hallifaxian researcher in me giving advice to you and of course, you don't have to take my word or anyone's word for it as they say in Hallifax, but the burden of proof and to discover that will be the ones you'll have to provide. No excuses. Also...I mean if you can't be bothered with trying to work out code/offense that's fine, but it really feels to me that...why even bother to complain about it? As its easier to complain than to exhaust all options in the meantime or while complaining.
Hence a combat score suggestion. Tarken has combat value 5, so you could fight him with 5 people who are value 1. Etc.
Eh, this is literally saying that Tarken is 5 times better than the average person. I think this is really the viewpoint, and if that is the case then we will never be able to agree there is an issue. We will continue to put our heads in the sand, and ignore the dwindling "Halli/Mag/Seren". If only we would be positive and git good instead of moving on. The point is Hallifax/Mag/Seren has PvP population issues, so much so that I am ignoring playing my favorite Org because I don't want to further the divide. However, let's ignore the data and continue to allow this side to lose valuable players. Winning by default is not a win in my books.
You gotta love the idea, though, that not only does our side have 5 people to send against Tarken, but one additional person for each member of Glomdoring or Celest or Gaudiguch that show up, so it'll be "even". I mean... Jesus. If we could do that, there would be no problem at all. It's almost as if one side is entirely divorced from the reality of what being on the other side is like.
Honestly, Innon, I wouldn't worry about the divide at this point. PVP doesn't exist, and no one wants it back.
The way I'm picturing it, is simply that the alliances are technically still doing what has been done throughout Lusternia's history. That is fighting each other's anathemas, the fact of the matter and yes the reality is the lacking of combatants on your end. I could go into some examples of what I mean but it'd be obvious to what I just said. I mean, Avurekhos resurrected his dream IronHart with a twist no? Also, why not consider advertising other mudding friends of yours to get them into Lusternia and play on your team) That'd be a strong suggestion whereas numbers are concerned and I still suggest that there is some encouragement to teach Serenwilders how to contribute to your causes. It's not to say that I am noticing one or two Serens being proactive in your alliance's causes, but that'd be another great boon if competitiveness and gaining ground is concerned. Last thing you'd want to do is put even MORE stress on the admin as I have seen over the years when complaints come up. I'm not saying I didn't contribute, but I don't go running to the forums at every minute's turn about it either. Just look at yourselves and your allies and evaluate what is lacking there as well is all.
Uh, yeah, the combatants on our end gave up after being hopelessly outnumbered 20 times too many, and most of them have fled to other muds/other games. For I while I protested, but it's really not fair for me to do so when logging on is a chore and even when we have some numbers, it won't be enough. The last time I remember being able to batphone successfully was during the last Wildnodes, and yeah... that went as expected. So why should we bother?
As for my other mudding friends, they all play Aetolia, and they're aware that Lusternia has half the numbers and too much forum anger and salt (unless you're trading it for goop of course). I can't convince friends to play a game that I barely enjoy. As it is, I am tired of the suggestions that the problem is just that we suck, that we're negative, or that we just need to try harder to force people to play/pk who don't want to. I'm sorry for the admin, as I think for the most part it isn't their fault, but we keep saying the same things over and over, and getting the same useless suggestions back. Edit: From other players, mostly.
Now, I am no great combatant. I also don't have the time right now to sit and work out strategies and do testing and write code for it, let alone force other people to do it, too. Even if I did, it would mean less time of the only things I still enjoy in this game: Writing and roleplaying with people. And with the increasingly smaller population of willing combatants, I'm supposed to do more of what I don't have time for already to make up for their slack, too? This is literally what 'the snowball effect' means. I can't fix it myself, and neither can anyone else on my side. I don't know what you think you'd even do differently, but I'd love to see evidence that it'd work.
Although it may seem irrelevant to you, even small tricks blossom into the larger scheme of things to work out. Like how Saz and I are able to shut down a few key players on Glomdoring side when we worked together cohesively and figured out it is possible and how to wiggle what throws a crux in their offense and that is all I'm going to say about it. You have to be willing to spend time on your craft and make it work and not be so simple enough to give up at the first death or two. Now if you magnify that same critical thinking with the next person and the next and so on..it'll click and you expand your discoveries to others. That's the Hallifaxian researcher in me giving advice to you and of course, you don't have to take my word or anyone's word for it as they say in Hallifax, but the burden of proof and to discover that will be the ones you'll have to provide. No excuses.
This takes one major assumption. That we do not theory craft. My favorite part of this game is theory craft. I do it with anyone I can. Keth is always right there assisting with my nonsense. I always discuss theory with Eadei and Avurekhos and several other Mag's and Halli's. We are literally constantly looking for edges. Bashing us down isn't fun for anyone, but keep things the same if you wish. Winning by default isn't really winning.
Comments
IF the goal is to make competitive parts of Lusternia truly competitive, so say Wildnodes and Domoths, then an MMR system makes sense to me. Players are forcibly matched into a rough equivalent of combat scores, and then can PVP. And at some point in competitive settings, yes, you do just have to 'git gud'. Like that's not the literal advice I would ever give to anyone who wanted to get better, but the idea behind it being that if you engage in competition, your own motivation is getting better. Again, this is IF you want to make and play Lusternia (or parts of) as a competitive game.
To that end, could make timequakes divorced from orgs and make it all about teams... like I could make a team with players from any org, and only the players in that team would get benefits. Hrm.
IF the goal is to instead just allow anyone to compete, then, that's a different conversation. I understood that was originally your point, the MMR system was brought up as a suggestion to add onto other things. For example, you could just make things hard limits. You hold 3 villages already, you are unable to enter any more villages during this revolt. At 14 villages, this would mean most orgs would hold at least one village.
The numbers are flexible, obviously. So if you were to do something like +x points for value of combat artifacts, +y points for level, +z points for previous number of 'wins' in wildnodes/domoths. As you lose, that number decreases. So it would be self-correcting, to some extent.
And there would be some leeway. Like if Glom has MMR 15 active on astral during nodes, then another org can have 13-17 MMR activate.
<a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.lusternia.com/banner/minkahmet.jpg">https://www.lusternia.com/banner/minkahmet.jpg</a>I think the part of the full-on crusade is false, and by all means, Minkahmet has never heard/seen Daxi in almost the entire time he has been the prince. Admittedly it could've been you've been dormant/opposite timezones or whatever, but other than that, he has never heard of you until this in the log: 2019/03/06 21:26:04 - Daxi quit the city. That day anyway. I try to employ the rp of enacting tenets of Elohora in balancing everything of each Supernal and their tenets. It might seem like a constant phase of Methrenton's tenets, but that usually only happens when we need to defend or counterattack Magnagora/Hallifax when they raid us, and unfortunately my character, as well as another two or three of us, aren't just going to sit idly on our thumbs like nothing ever happened. Nonetheless, there are actually a fair few of the citizens who don't or can't contribute in that fashion and there's nothing wrong with that and often a thing one can connect to other people who have similar likings/tastes/preferences like you. I do hope Serenwilde will treat you warmly as you get settled in and nothing but the best for your character.
<a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.lusternia.com/banner/minkahmet.jpg">https://www.lusternia.com/banner/minkahmet.jpg</a>The main issue people have with Glomdoring is the number of capable -and- willing (that and is very important) people to partake in combat, where other orgs lack that. Whether from actual desolate populations or people just tired of being beaten regardless how hard they try, that isn't the discussion though. The population that is capable but not willing, have their reasons, that they hold as valid, and are leaving because they're either not being addressed or being turned away. Can we all agree that is the case at the bare minimum?
As for my other mudding friends, they all play Aetolia, and they're aware that Lusternia has half the numbers and too much forum anger and salt (unless you're trading it for goop of course). I can't convince friends to play a game that I barely enjoy. As it is, I am tired of the suggestions that the problem is just that we suck, that we're negative, or that we just need to try harder to force people to play/pk who don't want to. I'm sorry for the admin, as I think for the most part it isn't their fault, but we keep saying the same things over and over, and getting the same useless suggestions back. Edit: From other players, mostly.
Now, I am no great combatant. I also don't have the time right now to sit and work out strategies and do testing and write code for it, let alone force other people to do it, too. Even if I did, it would mean less time of the only things I still enjoy in this game: Writing and roleplaying with people. And with the increasingly smaller population of willing combatants, I'm supposed to do more of what I don't have time for already to make up for their slack, too? This is literally what 'the snowball effect' means. I can't fix it myself, and neither can anyone else on my side. I don't know what you think you'd even do differently, but I'd love to see evidence that it'd work.
Haha. This is painfully naive. Batphones still exist (and I'm definitely not against it, as a concept; you can't expect everyone to stay logged in and waiting 24/7). The idea that "okay, Glomdoring has 3 people and Serenwilde has 9, surely Serenwilde can win this," is broken. I'm almost worried that this is what constitutes as balance according to the admin.
Timequakes are just another combat mechanic that is geared towards securing Glomdoring's perpetual topdog position. This will just broaden the gap between Glomdoring and its allies versus the rest of the game. Essentially, implementing this before addressing the discrepancies between skills was a colossal waste of resources, because timequakes will now further add to the already-muddied waters of combat (on top of all the wondercrystal, goop, and all the rest of the cashgrab artifacts that Lusternia has introduced over the years).
Accountability is necessary.
Accountability is necessary.
Let's be real. Who is to blame? We are. Alliances are run by players. Every action we take has consequences. Look at Ascension. Malarious literally made it fun and competitive. Yes, we lost, but it was because we lost. Losing is okay. The issue is alliances are too set in stone. There should be more disputes between orgs. Each org on its own will have lulls and weakness (even Glom). Let's be real Gaudi and Celest will never leave Glom's side, but if you truly wanted PvP then split the alliances. Imagine a wild nodes where it was an actual free for all. Honestly, why is Hallifax so cozy with Magnagora? Serenwilde should hate everyone. Celest should want to take it's place as the "rightful" place a king and punish any that step out of line. Magnagora should be wanting to rule us all with an iron fist and cull the weak. Gaudiguch should be a wild card playing by they're own rules. Glom should be focused on spreading the wyrd everywhere. It is the entire basis of the game, but because we want the safe and sure wins we create these 3v3 alliances.
I would love to see villages where orgs would fight any org. I would like to see wildnodes have nodes ticking at different orgs spheres. This would make it chaotic, fun, and eventful.
Let's have an understanding between leaders that we keep raids and defenders between 1-2 players between raiders and defenders. I would gladly hang back. I have seen some Glom's do this before too.
We have an amazing lore. We have a great game. We have taken it and turned it two sides with little org importance.
This is just my opinion though.
Not labeling Magnagora evil. Just saying Hallifax views itself as more sophisticated and higher functioning. You also have Isune and her teaching that clash with Mag.
- Allying with Hallifax would be a mess, we tried this before and phantheon went oh no you don't
- As we were considering post ascension I took cross sections of engagements that were happening, in the majority of those engagements Glomdoring/Celest was at that time outnumbered (do note this was while I was around, I can't speak for other times)
- The neutral route I wanted originally would result in not being able to participate in conflict at all, eg no villages, no domoths, no future timethings, no raiding. The only thing we might be able to do was flares and that is if nobody else showed up. Neutral = get bullied by everyone.
These are my reasons though, I am sure others have other reasons.Accountability is necessary.
In current game, Celest, Glom, nor Hallifax should be aligned. Gaudiguch is actually my favorite org flavor wise, but I play on this side because of population. Honestly, I think the number of combatants right now are ranked Glom>Celest~Halli>Mag (Depending)> Gaudi > Seren. This is sheer average number of combatants. I never expect Gaudi to leave Glom. However, add you and Dys to the Glom/Celest army and we never have a chance. Mag used to be one of the larger PvP pops, but they were hit hardest by the retirees.
Edit: If you are saying post-ascension that Glom/Gaudi/Celest has been outnumbered then I need logs. Because that is untrue.
There are comments all over the forums and even in this thread about how the current state of conflict is apparently driving even people interested in PvP away from the game depending on the "side" you're on (which in turn is negatively impacting the other "side" when they're looking for a fight).
So who actually gets to enjoy this system?
Given the current bonus layout we'd logically expect those dominating domoths, flares, and villages to accelerate pretty quickly through the research which would in turn make them better at various things including the Timequakes leading to some snowballing.
But on top of that, once they start hitting capstones, which you would expect them to faster, at this point they're going to have all these interesting raiding powers that are liable to make the smaller orgs lives hell as the larger ones start playing with them.
Sure, maybe if a timequake happens during some time of the where the smaller orgs have larger numbers AND the larger orgs don't have people they can batphone (or the game can batphone for them) then maybe the smaller orgs might be able to scrape some points together. But that doesn't really do anything for the people stuck in the prime time for the "winners".
Its like a big warm blanket of love
None of this is about you, personally. The entire system is broken, and encourages choices that make it worse.
Also...I mean if you can't be bothered with trying to work out code/offense that's fine, but it really feels to me that...why even bother to complain about it? As its easier to complain than to exhaust all options in the meantime or while complaining.
<a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.lusternia.com/banner/minkahmet.jpg">https://www.lusternia.com/banner/minkahmet.jpg</a>This takes one major assumption. That we do not theory craft. My favorite part of this game is theory craft. I do it with anyone I can. Keth is always right there assisting with my nonsense. I always discuss theory with Eadei and Avurekhos and several other Mag's and Halli's. We are literally constantly looking for edges. Bashing us down isn't fun for anyone, but keep things the same if you wish. Winning by default isn't really winning.