I'm puzzled by your puzzlement! You, and many others, consider it not-standard (and many of those went out of their way to say that they do not own it to prove this lack-of-standardness). On the other hand, you have the people who do consider it standard (and thus bought it).
That seems to be a pretty cut-and-dry example of, for this one specific artifact, at least, "You and your friends (Glom) have more".
You also have a knack for equivocation of things that shouldn't mix.
This is still such a true statement. Now you're going to attempt to mix that into us claiming that 'Glom just has more artis'? Nobody, absolutely nobody, attributed your consideration of the charm standard as artifact imbalance. The claim was made that they were standard and a must-have, many said it wasn't. Claims done and points proven on both sides. The statements were made that just because this group considers it standard, doesn't make it a universal truth. If that is too hard to understand, then I apologize.
You told me the original reason you left the game was because of the negativity on discord.
You are right that was the final straw. A certain few made my life difficult. However, I did not mean to suggest the reasons listed was my retirement reasons. They were issues I complained about. Lack of things to do also played into that. Some of the most fun times I had was the wargames you hosted .
You also have a knack for equivocation of things that shouldn't mix.
This is still such a true statement. Now you're going to attempt to mix that into us claiming that 'Glom just has more artis'? Nobody, absolutely nobody, attributed your consideration of the charm standard as artifact imbalance. The claim was made that they were standard and a must-have, many said it wasn't. Claims done and points proven on both sides. The statements were made that just because this group considers it standard, doesn't make it a universal truth. If that is too hard to understand, then I apologize.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, because you flat-out acknowledged that some people considered an artifact standard must-have (and thus possessed it) vs. others who did not (and left it on the shelf). It's pretty apparent, to me at least, that nerfing fixing said artifact is going to most negatively impact the people who own it, and most positively impact those who don't but have to fight against it.
You told me the original reason you left the game was because of the negativity on discord.
Rofl, leaving Lusternia because of a third party messenger application is pretty radical. Why wouldn't you just... delete discord?
At that time, Gaudi didn't have a entirely active envoy. Dischord and Deichtine was one of the few ways I could get ideas out. This pushed me to communicate via dischord. Admins wasn't truly a part and was just going into dischord when I left.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, because you flat-out acknowledged that some people considered an artifact standard must-have (and thus possessed it) vs. others who did not (and left it on the shelf). It's pretty apparent, to me at least, that nerfing fixing said artifact is going to most negatively impact the people who own it, and most positively impact those who don't but have to fight against it.
Agreement made, it was wonderful having civil discourse. While I will yield that the charm being altered may lower and bring things more in-line, it is not the magic band-aid and I think we both agree on that. So we'll leave that there.
I'm not going to speak for anyone, because it'd be wrong to do so, but I can talk about my own experience and the general vibe I've gotten from a lot of people. You can dismiss my input, of course, but doing so merely proves it right.
For a long time my friends and I tried. We tried very hard. We won some, we lost some. For a while we won most, but for the greater amount of time we lost most. Lusternia's community is a humble one, but it's full of people who genuinely care(d) about the game. More than any playerbase I ever have or probably will encounter.
Problem is losing sucks.
When you lose a few times you go back and review what you've done and you try again. Losing a few more times, you ask for help. Losing a few more times, you look at the differences between you and your opponent. You invest more, in most every sense of the word. Losing a few more times, time and time again, you either give up or you analyse why you're still losing. You and your friendly genuinely believe there's a discrepancy in balance. You talk about it for well over a year, trying to show people that it's there only for the most of people to continue to tell you to do better or that you're bad. Eventually people start to write you off and treat you as negligible. You keep trying, of course, because you're still playing the game. Hoping for some change in the environment that will make it fun again. You try for a very long time and then you just give up and leave. You leave the game for about a year, maybe over. Sometimes you come back and dabble for a week or so, then leave again. You see a major, long awaited change to your favourite class, one that you had pushed for for the majority of the time you played. You get excited, you come back. Except the magic isn't there any more. The people who were being dismissive continue to do so, and you don't really want to interact with them anymore. The friends that you used to strive with have all moved on. Most of the problems that you pointed out, while now are still being echoed, but in a much larger voice as problems, are still present.
I want to play Lusternia again, which is the worst part, I suppose. I really do want to enjoy the game again, but I don't know where the magic went. I'm sure I'll keep trying here and there in the future, but this is why I've left and why I may/may not end up returning.
Is it entirely what I perceive as a mechanic difference? No, far from. Is it the experience that I've endured while trying to make positive changed to the game? Largely. Sometimes you just have to perform a little bit of introspection and help yourself before you can help the game.
The biggest problem with this game? The people who, still to this day, proclaim there is no problem when confronted, and write you off.
I miss you, Hallifax, when everything was going well enough and we still had hope. Genuinely and truly.
N.B. I look forward to hearing about another exciting ascension this year.
I remember you ranting and shouting at me Keegan when you died to a toad and I pointed out you didn't use your healing scroll and if you'd have done that you wouldn't have died after I reviewed your logs.
I received private messages from you telling me how stupid I was for suggesting that.
I can't say I have any recollection of that event, and I'm not even sure if it happened, but cool. Enjoy using that toad ability power in the future against everyone from Hallifax.
So..while keegan is a noob for not using a scroll, are you implying that using a scroll would keep his mana up high enough to not get toaded?
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
@Deichtine People are explaining why they are leaving. I don't think you're helping your image or anyone's frustrations by belittling their posts now. I am trying to say this respectfully but nothing will ever, EVER get fixed in the name of player retention if the response to someone being upset is to say 'yeah but you did this thing' or 'I pointed out why you sucked once before and you were mean to me'.
This thread isn't called 'I'm leaving because of Deichtine' so perhaps it would help if you didn't come in defensively to every post as though they were aimed at you specifically - unless you feel you have a guilty conscience, perhaps. Shutting down people saying their piece (when they are civil) is counter-productive.
You told me the original reason you left the game was because of the negativity on discord.
Rofl, leaving Lusternia because of a third party messenger application is pretty radical. Why wouldn't you just... delete discord?
As an aside, probs worth keeping in mind that, given the admin interaction on the discord server there can be a pressure for some to be there also.
Same thing happens with the forums really, it can at least look like decisions are made through discussions on certain mediums so if you're not on those you're not included.
Case in point, I'm not apart of the larger discord, simply because I do not play well with others, nor do I want to hear a bunch of yammering is that is going to give me a headache and question why I joined. But those are my issues, and why I stay out of it, not the fault of the discord.
@Ellowyn Rofl, leaving Lusternia because of a third party messenger application is pretty radical. Why wouldn't you just... delete discord?
Because the same people who are in that discord server play the game...or do they? I don't know...I think maybe one or two of them play the game? Who knows! But if they don't play the game it'd be weird they moderate or include themselves in a serve that is no longer relevant to their gaming.
So if the same people in the discord server play the game, and those people 'made' someone leave then doesn't that make the discord factor irrelevant?
Enadonella said: And yet she still offers help, again and again. If people do not want to acknowledge that she is a capable combatant and that she may have some helpful tips or if they are just salty because they recently died they could instead just ignore her or say thanks, but no thanks
she still hasn't told me how many dust affs I need to apply to kill someone
Maybe I should have issued for my alts being outed on clans and the vile things being said that filtered back to me but instead I quit the game because some battles are not worth fighting and I was tired, physically, mentally and emotionally. I still am. There's so many things I'd love to say but I'll leave it at these few things (yes, I will take your very obvious bait) - telling someone who reveals some of their past struggles and what triggered it that it's a cop-out is really, really low. Saying you've never quit over it - well you're a freaking hero, good for you - but does it make the behaviour ok? Should I have to call the authorities over someone bullying in a game? Or is it really so outrageous to expect and hope that people might have empathy, a little remorse, and maybe even a hint of human decency? I think maybe it is.
@Shaddus - Because when one org wins the game and refuses to let other people have their turn, people get bored and GG.
Because I don't even let my kid win at naughts and crosses. If you want to win, work for it. Also, No mercy.
Which is why you're GR1 and only moved to Glomdoring because Gaudiguch wouldn't give you VA. You aren't winning, you're coasting.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
They urge people in their org not to join certain clans, or discord channels, or the forums because they don't want those people seeing the complaints against Glomdoring or knowing that anything is wrong. "They hate us because they ain't us."
People have been very casually discouraged from joining ONE discord server and that reason is evident to them as soon as they join, and they often say as much. Given that that admin now endorse that kind of behaviour by participating in the server only gives these new players a sense that it is okay to treat other players in this manner. Which is even worse. I have never heard of anyone telling any player not to join clan or forums. I think that is a bit of hyperbole.
@Lycidas - I say 'git gud' because I have played with those people, I say stop being lazy, because I have been on that side of the fence. I was friends once with most of those people. That changed when I defended my partner. I 'lost' friends because I will stand here and say that Deichtine has done nothing but offer help to anyone and everyone and instead of listening or making any real attempt at working on their class with quite often her coding assistance they'd rather cry and whinge. I see a lot of people calling her a cheater or being reliant on the OP class and what not
As for admin listening to me...that is a joke right? Very funny, needed a pick me up after reading all of this crap!
@Lavinya, this was a direct evidence of how enemies respond when anyone ever tries to help someone after they die. Often there is ranting or disgusting retorts towards Deichtine when all she is doing is offering some advice or checking to make sure their system is functioning. Too many times I have seen the results of her attempting to offer advice or what ever end in her being abused. And yet she still offers help, again and again. If people do not want to acknowledge that she is a capable combatant and that she may have some helpful tips or if they are just salty because they recently died they could instead just ignore her or say thanks, but no thanks. Instead we see the kind of behaviour that seems to be driving away players.
People might leave Lusternia for a number of reasons, being unhappy with how your character/player is being treated is one of them for sure! However, with snub as a viable mechanic placing blame on a player or a number of players is just not reasonable
Pardon the snips, just wanted to keep things that I wish to address that will be relevant and what I'm calling upon. Things that were a single paragraph might also have been made separate lines for this purpose as well, preface complete:
1) What do you think people are doing? People are putting in work and trying. Stating that they're not is false. It's in the same vein of, "Just not positive enough."
2) Who is the 'they' in the start of this, asking for clarification because you don't really point out who you're talking about. Who is saying don't join these clans, discord servers, or forums?
3) I haven't heard of anybody discouraging joining any discord servers on any of the channels I have access to, which is a lot, hence my asking.
4) This kind of ties back into the first bit, they're not being lazy, and another big problem is you're here to defend your partner, and it shows. It isn't a bad thing, but when it is about defending said partner and not addressing issues, it makes you seem less interested in the topic. As for Deichtine helping with classes, can't say I've had that offer except until recently, but it was also recently shown they are not fully knowledgeable about how Mag skills work. That's fine and not a criticism, but you can't offer advice on skills you're not familiar with. I've also never seen or heard anybody call her a cheater or only successful because of 'insert class', so may I request citations?
5) I most definitely wasn't talking about them listening to you, that was a Xenthos comment, but glad you got a chuckle regardless.
6) Again, I haven't seen these rants or retorts made specifically at Deichtine, so I would need citations. Perception of words is also important. I cannot tell you how many times people think I'm pissy or hostile, when it is just my natural method of delivery. I will acknowledge she has a grasp on Glom mechanics on a few classes, but those don't truthfully carry into other orgs, as I discussed in fourth bit.
7) The behavior that is driving away players has been decidedly stated to be the mentality of, "We're doing nothing wrong, we're fair and balanced, you just need to be positive and work hard." ... you know, the things that we've discussed now in multiple threads.
8) Speaking of people leaving, you most certainly can blame a single person or multiple for leaving, and is in fact reasonable. Can't tell you how many times I've lost all interest in a character because of poor treatment. Just because you find it unreasonable does not make that opinion a fact.
They urge people in their org not to join certain clans, or discord channels, or the forums because they don't want those people seeing the complaints against Glomdoring or knowing that anything is wrong. "They hate us because they ain't us."
People have been very casually discouraged from joining ONE discord server and that reason is evident to them as soon as they join, and they often say as much. Given that that admin now endorse that kind of behaviour by participating in the server only gives these new players a sense that it is okay to treat other players in this manner. Which is even worse. I have never heard of anyone telling any player not to join clan or forums. I think that is a bit of hyperbole.
@Lycidas - I say 'git gud' because I have played with those people, I say stop being lazy, because I have been on that side of the fence. I was friends once with most of those people. That changed when I defended my partner. I 'lost' friends because I will stand here and say that Deichtine has done nothing but offer help to anyone and everyone and instead of listening or making any real attempt at working on their class with quite often her coding assistance they'd rather cry and whinge. I see a lot of people calling her a cheater or being reliant on the OP class and what not
As for admin listening to me...that is a joke right? Very funny, needed a pick me up after reading all of this crap!
@Lavinya, this was a direct evidence of how enemies respond when anyone ever tries to help someone after they die. Often there is ranting or disgusting retorts towards Deichtine when all she is doing is offering some advice or checking to make sure their system is functioning. Too many times I have seen the results of her attempting to offer advice or what ever end in her being abused. And yet she still offers help, again and again. If people do not want to acknowledge that she is a capable combatant and that she may have some helpful tips or if they are just salty because they recently died they could instead just ignore her or say thanks, but no thanks. Instead we see the kind of behaviour that seems to be driving away players.
People might leave Lusternia for a number of reasons, being unhappy with how your character/player is being treated is one of them for sure! However, with snub as a viable mechanic placing blame on a player or a number of players is just not reasonable
Pardon the snips, just wanted to keep things that I wish to address that will be relevant and what I'm calling upon. Things that were a single paragraph might also have been made separate lines for this purpose as well, preface complete:
2) Who is the 'they' in the start of this, asking for clarification because you don't really point out who you're talking about. Who is saying don't join these clans, discord servers, or forums?
3) I haven't heard of anybody discouraging joining any discord servers on any of the channels I have access to, which is a lot, hence my asking.
She's quoting me, and I've had several people tell me that they've been urged not to join the main Discord for Lusternia because it's "toxic towards Glomdoring" apparently. I've also had reports of people from Glomdoring complaining about having the Admin in our discord, even though they have Nocht in both our discord and the Glomdoring one. All I can say is that if they don't trust our admin to be impartial or be able to separate discussions in Discord from ingame, IC knowledge, but they trust their own admin to be able to do so, then this further reinforces the delusional notion that Glomdoring is just being attacked by outside people who are simply jealous.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
There
was a core of really toxic players that were involved in a lot of
abuse on the discord server that have thankfully mostly retired. If
we can just move past the old toxicity I think we can really see
things improve.
I know, I wish people would be better than they are but yea the worst offenders seem to have left so fingers crossed things improve.
I don't know if you know how patronizing/condescending you're being, but this is a quintessential example of why people don't like Glomdoring. Did you even read what Aramel posted?
I notice a lot of people use the discord as a bit of a scapegoat. You don't have to be on there, there is no pressure. The admin don't make plans with players on there and implement them and leave everyone else out in the cold. They're just there to observe and interact in an unofficial capacity.
The one or two of you that complain about the discord are pretty much ignorant. Before this, it was Skype groups or AIM.
The admin have nothing to do with discord. IRE have nothing to do with discord. They are entirely separate entities. If you have a complaint about any discord server, take it up with the moderators on there. Or don't. You leaving the discord channel will not impact you playing Lusternia at all. Stop blaming a messaging application.
Comments
You told me the original reason you left the game was because of the negativity on discord.
For a long time my friends and I tried. We tried very hard. We won some, we lost some. For a while we won most, but for the greater amount of time we lost most. Lusternia's community is a humble one, but it's full of people who genuinely care(d) about the game. More than any playerbase I ever have or probably will encounter.
Problem is losing sucks.
When you lose a few times you go back and review what you've done and you try again.
Losing a few more times, you ask for help.
Losing a few more times, you look at the differences between you and your opponent.
You invest more, in most every sense of the word.
Losing a few more times, time and time again, you either give up or you analyse why you're still losing.
You and your friendly genuinely believe there's a discrepancy in balance.
You talk about it for well over a year, trying to show people that it's there only for the most of people to continue to tell you to do better or that you're bad.
Eventually people start to write you off and treat you as negligible.
You keep trying, of course, because you're still playing the game. Hoping for some change in the environment that will make it fun again.
You try for a very long time and then you just give up and leave.
You leave the game for about a year, maybe over. Sometimes you come back and dabble for a week or so, then leave again.
You see a major, long awaited change to your favourite class, one that you had pushed for for the majority of the time you played. You get excited, you come back.
Except the magic isn't there any more. The people who were being dismissive continue to do so, and you don't really want to interact with them anymore.
The friends that you used to strive with have all moved on.
Most of the problems that you pointed out, while now are still being echoed, but in a much larger voice as problems, are still present.
I want to play Lusternia again, which is the worst part, I suppose. I really do want to enjoy the game again, but I don't know where the magic went.
I'm sure I'll keep trying here and there in the future, but this is why I've left and why I may/may not end up returning.
Is it entirely what I perceive as a mechanic difference? No, far from. Is it the experience that I've endured while trying to make positive changed to the game? Largely.
Sometimes you just have to perform a little bit of introspection and help yourself before you can help the game.
The biggest problem with this game? The people who, still to this day, proclaim there is no problem when confronted, and write you off.
I miss you, Hallifax, when everything was going well enough and we still had hope. Genuinely and truly.
N.B. I look forward to hearing about another exciting ascension this year.
I received private messages from you telling me how stupid I was for suggesting that.
I can't say I have any recollection of that event, and I'm not even sure if it happened, but cool. Enjoy using that toad ability power in the future against everyone from Hallifax.
This thread isn't called 'I'm leaving because of Deichtine' so perhaps it would help if you didn't come in defensively to every post as though they were aimed at you specifically - unless you feel you have a guilty conscience, perhaps. Shutting down people saying their piece (when they are civil) is counter-productive.
Same thing happens with the forums really, it can at least look like decisions are made through discussions on certain mediums so if you're not on those you're not included.
There was a core of really toxic players that were involved in a lot of abuse on the discord server that have thankfully mostly retired. If we can just move past the old toxicity I think we can really see things improve.
The one or two of you that complain about the discord are pretty much ignorant. Before this, it was Skype groups or AIM.
The admin have nothing to do with discord. IRE have nothing to do with discord. They are entirely separate entities. If you have a complaint about any discord server, take it up with the moderators on there. Or don't. You leaving the discord channel will not impact you playing Lusternia at all. Stop blaming a messaging application.