There was a brief analysis for it here in the forums, I just don't remember where to look, wherein if there was a 2v2v2 setup, one org would realize, "Hey, if I switch, it'd be a 3v2v1 and it'd be easier to win." The game's conflict systems (domoths, revolts, wildnodes, etc.) basically requires the population of at least 3 orgs to work. This is because if you win, you win a little, but if you lose, you lose big (essence/experience, power).
Because #Winning is not as easy when you don't have 3 or even 4 pools of people to draw from. Without stepping into the cat fight currently going on, I'll say that 95% of the reason for any alliance is always going to be PK. Sorry Roleplayers, it's just the nature of the game. Smaller, multiple alliances would make more sense from an RP standpoint but not from a PK standpoint. While it's a nice pipe dream to want to keep both parties equally appeased, it's just never quite going to be all that possible. Lusternia is a PK mud where RP just pops up from time to time.
It's like going to watch a fight and suddenly a hockey game breaks out.
Purely roleplayer people can say what they will, but at the end of the day when they have no villages, no domoths, no bubbles, no one to stop raids and bashing ganks, etc... then you can bet they will probably turn to the PKers and go 'hey how can we fix this?' the answer usually always being 'ally with whoever will take us and we'll get it done.'
I wouldn't say it is a necessity, I feel like Magnagora is an example of being able to do a pretty decent amount with little to no allied help. In the majority of conquest events Post-Silvanus, it's typically just been Magnagora + Malarious on a regular basis, with guest appearances by at best 3 different Gaudis every half dozen or so events.
Give me a full strength Gaudi goon squad again and I feel like we could have a lot more W's in the Outcome column for the both of us. I try to keep my finger on the pulse of Mag as much as I can, and I've not gotten the vibe of 'man we need like 2 more orgs for allies' it's mostly been a lot of 'man it'd be great if just one of those orgs would go kick rocks during events'. If that makes any sense.
All organizations are out for themselves, no org is pro friendship4ever, and to say Glomdoring is somehow unique in this is more telling of your own personal bias than anything to do with Glomdoring.
Anyways, my point has never been to blame the RPers who made this decision for being the ones to make this decision, Everinne is correct in that PKers can be just as stifling in their actions. My points is that at this point, those who made the choice should now review the consequences of that choice, recognize it has only benefitted them and their own, private goals at the cost of a lot of other people. This game cannot survive as an RP chatroom, and Glomdoring certainly isn't going to flourish as it has in the past (and as I wish to see it do again) if this continues.
You keep talking like I don't want things to change either- BS, @Celina. What I have a problem with is that no one asked HOW we wanted things to change. No one seemed to care about how things were going until a few days ago. Then suddenly, they had a problem with everything and everything needed to change to "this way" and screw anyone who thinks differently. No, I don't want to play the game in an RP chatroom either, but as I see it, you're still ignoring some pretty fundamental problems with communication and everyone's ability and desire to work with everyone else- and I don't believe switching alliances is going to magically change that.
Let's make some more clarification for hilarity's sake. Since you want to share your perspective, it's my turn. Salome as a character (and player) is not suddenly having problems with everything, she's already had these problems, and she HAS been working on these problems with/against you for rounding about a decade now in Glomdoring. You can go ahead and just tag me if you're going to be this obvious about things, then just say so. I have no problem with being mentioned, as long as I am able to defend my position within this whole mess of things, just as Celina is when she is mentioned. Communication has been heavily present as far as I am concerned, and here's why you probably haven't been hearing any of it.
What is also really funny, is that the everyone and everything will respond to me a 'screw whatever you think, this is way better because I like it more than you, and I hate your thing more than my thing, so its obviously better,' regardless of how I post, how I RP it, even if it is genial, nice, sweet, or full of rainbows. "People" will just tear it up, and maybe that's the habit of really passionate players and all - I do that a lot, I have been known to destroy posts on the basis that I have lost my temper. But I don't use other people to post their ideas for me when I am unsure of the environment, especially in terms of foreign affairs the subject is hostile and def-con 10 if I even breathe a word of it. You have been voicing your opinions, and you know it. And they call for everything that isn't any idea of mine, most of it was devil's advocate, but it was definitely counter-intuitive to trying to fix anything at all. You are right that I was extremely agitated when I wrote how Glomdoring sucks (because that's how it was viewed, it was really Glomdoring could rock if you see the truth of the matter/we eat Hallifaxian fart leftovers), but you know what? At least it got the conversation going once more, and I could actually be truthful to how my character see's this deadlock. It wasn't a sudden decision, it was a long time coming. Even before @Celina decided to leave, I was going to cough up a spine and say something.
And what @Tarkenton reminded me of afterwards is that we still all have to work together to achieve a product. Which is why I believe that we can move forward to some compromise, instead of smacking each other around. It's exhausting, true, but let me tell you. What else is fun, draining and completely apathetic making is how people who support Salome don't get upset when Salome is attacked/dragged through the wyrden mud/ect. I don't get the kind of backing that the Shee-Slaugh do when they feel threatened by something, whatever minor part of my post that it may be. Which is why I have been working around people to provide information through my posts and those who ask me, 'what's up?' It's a lot easier not to feel bullied or harassed OOCly when I'm just speaking to individuals, I can actually stay in character.
But yes, we did have a try at that individual talk, Keth. I really tried to tell you what's happening. But when I did tell you of what is happening now and you grow belligerent in RP and then basically act like its all my fault for basically putting the hammer down on Keth's behavior. It's really frustrating to try to RP with you just because of these issues. But, if that's how your character acts who am I to police it, I can only react with what comes natural to my character, which is to grow vague because she's being bullied, loses her temper or completely shuts down. After almost six-seven months of RP in Glomdoring with you, you should know this - especially after their last spat, but you press anyway, and then blame me for not communicating with you. I tried, if that wasn't good enough, well nuts I am sorry if I have hurt your feelings somehow. If you say that communication is a problem, it's not on my end. Do you see this post? It's ridiculously long.
But in RP, I don't have the opportunity to act victimized, I am too busy wanting Glomdoring to become a better organisation OOCly and IG. I am fiercely dedicated to Glomdoring if that isn't obvious, I was willing to go all the way to VA to make sure that we have really good representation in PK even though I heavily favor RP most times. Far more than any other org I have been in. I want to stay here, and without saying that I'm threatening, I can tell you it has been difficult. Not just because of you, if you're reading this the wrong way, but because of how we go about things the wrong way. I think I am going to lay some ground-rules for how the Court conducts business soon in a proposal, just for everyone and see if we can't clear all of this tension IG and OOCly up with some good old fashioned protocol.
The apple is cold, crisp, and sour as the juices fill your mouth. As you consume the fruit, you glimpse, for a moment, a massive, shadowy figure, Her snow-white hair framing a perfect, icy-eyed visage. Beneath you, a vast, perfect web of silken strands lies - and, for a moment, you realize that you too are part of it, weaver and strand both - and home.
Yes, it's to do with the population spread. It's not practical for an org to do well long term without any allies, because population within orgs fluctuates. If you don't have a high enough baseline of people, the solo org can pretty rapidly plunge into numbers where the few folks still around aren't enough to avoid getting crushed, pushing those few people to go elsewhere (or go dormant). With allies, there's a bigger pool of people to participate in conflict with (note I didn't say win, but even participate), so having a few players go dormant isn't as big of a deal.
It would be nice if everyone just stayed out of everyone's business and let 1vs1vs1vs1vs1vs1 happen.
No Org really has a reason to like any other Org, it is just that we find OOC friends and we are so desperate to get involved in PK that we find a way to sugar coat our RP to still play with them.
"Oh you left X Org for Y Org. Well that's ok cause I like to "rp" with you and I like to fight on your side, so I will just alter my character's perception to ignore that pesky little thing called... you betrayed everything my character and my Org should be standing for."
I don't think it's really true that any particular side intentionally calls down ganks because "hey, screw those guys, let's just dogpile them". It's more that everyone is looking for conflict to participate in, so if any conflict happens on any scale, everyone equally wants to participate and shows up.
It would be nice if everyone just stayed out of everyone's business and let 1vs1vs1vs1vs1vs1 happen.
No Org really has a reason to like any other Org, it is just that we find OOC friends and we are so desperate to get involved in PK that we find a way to sugar coat our RP to still play with them.
"Oh you left X Org for Y Org. Well that's ok cause I like to "rp" with you and I like to fight on your side, so I will just alter my character's perception to ignore that pesky little thing called... you betrayed everything my character and my Org should be standing for."
You know, I still don't quite get how the Glom-Halli thing has happened myself. I've purposely avoided it so I might be of limited perspective, but if there's no draw for Gaudi whatsoever then it might have to do with limited effort on both ends.
I've not seen lots of Gloms in the city and know nothing of clandestine meetings, but where I do see Gloms is on our aetherhunts. Serens end up on those sometimes too. On rare situations, we might even have a few on the same ship. And I know for sure it's inspired Seren to go out on a few trips of their own! But who else is getting out there? How often is there a big astral hunt anymore either, for that matter.
I don't know, I think offering to share group exp opportunities - particularly the ones that are significantly more profitable than solo work - is one of the best ways to build up good feelings where you'd like to. It certainly works better than biding, and is also likely to provide you with exp buffer for when the PK deaths do come around (or just to get ridiculous luxuries like Second Trade).
And there's definitely avenues for pressure that I haven't seen pressed in a long time. I think anyone wanting to try to shake things up from where they are now could do so by pushing for more UV questing, get the kephera/illithoid divide going between orgs again. I'm guessing that's not happening because some branch or another of it is bugged again? Or people just got burned out from the last bout? No idea.
Mag and Seren used to always go on aetherhunts all the time, for almost entire days at a time. I made most my Seren buddies that way. Even if they are all losers now who don't love me anymore
All organizations are out for themselves, no org is pro friendship4ever, and to say Glomdoring is somehow unique in this is more telling of your own personal bias than anything to do with Glomdoring.
Anyways, my point has never been to blame the RPers who made this decision for being the ones to make this decision, Everinne is correct in that PKers can be just as stifling in their actions. My points is that at this point, those who made the choice should now review the consequences of that choice, recognize it has only benefitted them and their own, private goals at the cost of a lot of other people. This game cannot survive as an RP chatroom, and Glomdoring certainly isn't going to flourish as it has in the past (and as I wish to see it do again) if this continues.
You keep talking like I don't want things to change either- BS, @Celina. What I have a problem with is that no one asked HOW we wanted things to change. No one seemed to care about how things were going until a few days ago. Then suddenly, they had a problem with everything and everything needed to change to "this way" and screw anyone who thinks differently. No, I don't want to play the game in an RP chatroom either, but as I see it, you're still ignoring some pretty fundamental problems with communication and everyone's ability and desire to work with everyone else- and I don't believe switching alliances is going to magically change that.
Let's make some more clarification for hilarity's sake. Since you want to share your perspective, it's my turn. Salome as a character (and player) is not suddenly having problems with everything, she's already had these problems, and she HAS been working on these problems with/against you for rounding about a decade now in Glomdoring. You can go ahead and just tag me if you're going to be this obvious about things, then just say so. I have no problem with being mentioned, as long as I am able to defend my position within this whole mess of things, just as Celina is when she is mentioned. Communication has been heavily present as far as I am concerned, and here's why you probably haven't been hearing any of it.
What is also really funny, is that the everyone and everything will respond to me a 'screw whatever you think, this is way better because I like it more than you, and I hate your thing more than my thing, so its obviously better,' regardless of how I post, how I RP it, even if it is genial, nice, sweet, or full of rainbows. "People" will just tear it up, and maybe that's the habit of really passionate players and all - I do that a lot, I have been known to destroy posts on the basis that I have lost my temper. But I don't use other people to post their ideas for me when I am unsure of the environment, especially in terms of foreign affairs the subject is hostile and def-con 10 if I even breathe a word of it. You have been voicing your opinions, and you know it. And they call for everything that isn't any idea of mine, most of it was devil's advocate, but it was definitely counter-intuitive to trying to fix anything at all. You are right that I was extremely agitated when I wrote how Glomdoring sucks (because that's how it was viewed, it was really Glomdoring could rock if you see the truth of the matter/we eat Hallifaxian fart leftovers), but you know what? At least it got the conversation going once more, and I could actually be truthful to how my character see's this deadlock. It wasn't a sudden decision, it was a long time coming. Even before @Celina decided to leave, I was going to cough up a spine and say something.
I... actually haven't been voicing my own opinion much in Glomdoring, @Salome, in-character. I spoke to @Stratas to ask his opinion- I didn't tell him what to think about. At least, I hope not. I also spoke briefly to @Tau to find out the same, asked @Xenthos- though Xenthos didn't say anything to me, just posted his opinion. The latest post, if you want to blame someone, that would be @Eliron, who didn't have the time to write it himself. As for me, there's a reason why I've tried to stay out of it, really, even if I obviously care.
"Deadlock"- I just want us to commit to something, and stick with it. And the reason why conversations between us often in arguments is, I suspect, because the way you present information is unbelievably frustrating to me, as a player. I ask you questions and you immediately go on the defensive, or else give vague, non-answers that don't address the actual question I asked. And eventually, the end result is that I'll be frustrated, you'll get angry with me and demand I stop asking questions, and it ends with my not wanting to speak to you, period. I suspect you often reach the same conclusion...
And what @Tarkenton reminded me of afterwards is that we still all have to work together to achieve a product. Which is why I believe that we can move forward to some compromise, instead of smacking each other around. It's exhausting, true, but let me tell you. What else is fun, draining and completely apathetic making is how people who support Salome don't get upset when Salome is attacked/dragged through the wyrden mud/ect. I don't get the kind of backing that the Shee-Slaugh do when they feel threatened by something, whatever minor part of my post that it may be. Which is why I have been working around people to provide information through my posts and those who ask me, 'what's up?' It's a lot easier not to feel bullied or harassed OOCly when I'm just speaking to individuals, I can actually stay in character.
You need to cut this Shee-Slaugh vs You crap. In fact, I'd wager the fact that you think that's what this is all about is why you get the reactions that you do- people can tell when you view them as the enemy. Eliron and Xenthos stood up for me ONCE when you overreacted to the point where even @Celina, of all people, seemed to acknowledge that was the case. People disagreeing with you is not harassment- it's part of trying to lead. It's the part of it that sucks the most, really, but you signed up for the job. I never told you how you should go about giving information- hell, mail everyone in Glom a duplicate letter a week if that'd be easier- I only said what MY perspective of the situation has been.
But yes, we did have a try at that individual talk, Keth. I really tried to tell you what's happening. But when I did tell you of what is happening now and you grow belligerent in RP and then basically act like its all my fault for basically putting the hammer down on Keth's behavior. It's really frustrating to try to RP with you just because of these issues. But, if that's how your character acts who am I to police it, I can only react with what comes natural to my character, which is to grow vague because she's being bullied, loses her temper or completely shuts down. After almost six-seven months of RP in Glomdoring with you, you should know this - especially after their last spat, but you press anyway, and then blame me for not communicating with you. I tried, if that wasn't good enough, well nuts I am sorry if I have hurt your feelings somehow. If you say that communication is a problem, it's not on my end. Do you see this post? It's ridiculously long.
Lots of words do not equal communication.
But in RP, I don't have the opportunity to act victimized, I am too busy wanting Glomdoring to become a better organisation OOCly and IG. I am fiercely dedicated to Glomdoring if that isn't obvious, I was willing to go all the way to VA to make sure that we have really good representation in PK even though I heavily favor RP most times. Far more than any other org I have been in. I want to stay here, and without saying that I'm threatening, I can tell you it has been difficult. Not just because of you, if you're reading this the wrong way, but because of how we go about things the wrong way. I think I am going to lay some ground-rules for how the Court conducts business soon in a proposal, just for everyone and see if we can't clear all of this tension IG and OOCly up with some good old fashioned protocol.
And I think you absolutely should, and it'd be a positive change.
"Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
There is a functional UV divide between orgs? News to me :P I think it died out because the three players who had feelings about it stopped playing.
Lol, I remember when Ixion worked out an agreement where we'd let(sometimes help) Seren raise Zenobia so that Mag could drop her for Illithoid questing. Good times
I think Mag/Gaudi get the dogpile because Mag at least is the only clear enemy the other 4 orgs can attack without solving a logic puzzle first to determine if it's ok. And like others have said, people want to join in on the conflict, and if it's the only clear path to fighting, they'll go for it.
I think people are forgetting that just because you ally or make peace with an org, it doesn't mean you suddenly don't care about their opposing ideals or past sins. It doesn't have to be about being 'friends', but a strategic decision to join forces for the purpose of warfare. You don't have to be allies to socialise in manses (though it's easier if you're not open enemies). In fact Hallifax is very welcoming of such so long as you personally are not enemied. If the only reason Glom allied Hallifax is so they could drink tea in manses and aetherhunt with them, it is seriously overkill.
I'm not making accusations or presumptions there either - if it weren't for the forums I wouldn't know about this Glom alliance drama because none of it makes its way out of the private clans. Just making a point.
Too much peace is frustrating. Enforced peace with Serenwilde for the sake of Maeve, allied with Hallifax, friends with Celest, now I hear whispers of friendship with Mag (and by extension probably Gaudi too?). I don't identify as a PKer but I do like to join in with it when it happens. Defending constant raids can be exhausting at times, but it's also good for Lusternia to promote that conflict. To have people interested in raiding and defending. To be on both sides of that table. I think making strategic alliances is good, but I don't think they should be made out of fear of being raided, so lets make a lot of peace treaties/NAPs and bore all those people in the game who like to fight senseless.
And there is always a way to justify allying with anyone. It's not acceptance of said org, it's compromise for your larger goal. It makes no sense for Serenwilde and Magnagora to be allies for example thematically. Mag doesn't care about forests and Serenwilde hates the taint. And yet, it can be easily spun that making a treaty with Magnagora is a means of protecting the forest from their attack, and a way of helping keep the tainted in check. It can be a way of turning the 'evil' taint to a good purpose in using their strength to fight off what would defile it. And Magnagora has historically used any tool to its own purpose, so it's hardly a stretch there. My point? There's a lot of room to not only hate all the other orgs, but also to make peace with them. It's just a matter of perspective. What's hard to change are ooc mindsets and personal preferences of who they do/don't like to play with. I think that is the biggest hindrance to politics in the game, not the RP of orgs or lore or background.
I think people are forgetting that just because you ally or make peace with an org, it doesn't mean you suddenly don't care about their opposing ideals or past sins. It doesn't have to be about being 'friends', but a strategic decision to join forces for the purpose of warfare. You don't have to be allies to socialise in manses (though it's easier if you're not open enemies). In fact Hallifax is very welcoming of such so long as you personally are not enemied. If the only reason Glom allied Hallifax is so they could drink tea in manses and aetherhunt with them, it is seriously overkill.
What I thought was the reason was because we wanted to fight against Magnagora, who were constantly attacking us and threatening war themselves... but teaming up with Gaudi meant taking Mag too... that's how I remember it. Celest had Serenwilde. It made reasonable sense at that time, except that there's a certain amount of doublespeak and false memory going on here among some of the players, in-my-ever-so-humble-opinion.
I'm not making accusations or presumptions there either - if it weren't for the forums I wouldn't know about this Glom alliance drama because none of it makes its way out of the private clans. Just making a point.
I agree.
"Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
Someone needs to be a hero here and save us all. Drop Celest, drop Serenwilde, make friends with an enemy and punch your old friends in the brain... It'll be fun. Do it.
@Vivet My IC understanding of Glomdoring-Hallifax-New Celest-Serenwilde was that Glomdoring was shoved away by Magnagora. H-NC-S said they would hug G and take care of them forever. H and NC followed through. S kinda stopped. Then G and S said "We will make this work! .. eventually?" We were told to step back and let them handle it. And then awhile ago people realized it wouldn't work out, so everyone asked "Ok. What do we do?" And ... we are still working on answering that.
From the OOC view, H and S were taking turns being ghost towns. G hit their own slump and was so small that they needed major help to get just about any win. The idea of 4v2 at that point seemed like the only way to keep struggling back against the unreasonable power duo that was M and G. Now the populations have evened out more and the [1v1..4..3...???]v1 seems ridiculous. Magnagora is holding onto approximately an even number wins with other nations, but the wins are far from even on the North vs South fight.
Keep in mind that I was not CL at the beginning of this so I don't have all the inside knowledge. I also am not a combatant in the least and any say I have on "balance" should be mocked.
For Mister Zvoltz, Pejat has been terminated by the Replicant Dynodeon.
Disclaimer: I don't have that much time to log in during Lusternian peak on weekdays anymore, and most of my activity is usually confined to the quieter hours, so my opinion doesn't really have much of an effect on politics in or outside Glomdoring itself - not that I actively put much time or effort into politics in the first place, of course.
I don't actually mind playing with Celest/Halli against Mag/Gaudi. I look at the skillsets out there and I know which side's abilities complement my own skillset better, and as a min-maxing PKer, I therefore know which side I would prefer to be working with instead of fighting against. But win or lose, as long as there is a fight, I'm usually pretty down even with fighting against friends or against competent players. Peeps like Leolamins, Tark and others are also fairly supportive even when I mess up and make the wrong calls (maybe they'd be angrier after I run down enough of their essence buffers, hurr hurr), and (lately, at least) there hasn't been much virulent vitirol from opponents as combat aftermath, so generally speaking, I'm actually fairly content with the alliance or political situation for PK.
That said, however, I've also made active decisions to refrain from participating in fights because of numerically skewed situations. Haven't had the chance to do that much lately because I'm not actually online often when there are enough people also online to create numerically skewed situations, but it's happened, and it may well happen again. Of course, I've also made active decisions not to be on the same side as Serenwilde, but that's less about numbers and more about personal RP - and yes, I consider that my RP. Of course, all that said and done, my presence or absence in those instances probably would not have swayed the outcome of the fights I opted out of participating.
But anyway, my point is, the current political situation isn't actually all that grave in terms of institutionalizing boredom - I still get my kicks here and there. At the same time, it is important to note that there certainly is a dampening effect on PK activity when you have such a skewed (or complicated) political situation. It does not need to manifest in everyone the same way it manifests in me, but it's definitely there - at least, that's my opinion from my own personal observations. To take an extreme stance on either side of the fence is a little narrow-minded: Celina's "simple" suggestion of "simply" making it a cele/halli/seren versus mag/gaudi/glom (or swapping the forests' positions in the lineup) face-off being able to solve the problems is certainly true to an extent, because it WILL solve many problems, but to insist that is the only possible solution, or even the "best", is also certainly not the case. Letting things "play out" certainly can be an option as well. Maybe less efficient, and perhaps with a little overall more unhappiness in the process, or maybe not.
I don't quite think the situation is quite grave enough yet to warrant an OOCly driven action, from either the players' consensus or the admin, to enforce an equalizer (like the team ffa equalizer mechanic in the arena system) but it certainly should be kept in mind - imbalances created by player choices can and should be corrected even at the risk of displacing or retconning in-game RP if the need is there. Free markets and freedom of choice can go to hell.
Related to my last sentence, I think Zvoltz's first post highlighted one of the best things about this game: because despite what I just said, there IS a huge amount of freedom of choice in the game, and not because of some universal human value in freedom and liberty and MURICA, but rather because the admin have taken the effort to keep those options open in terms of political (or RP) justifications. Mag could ally with Celest because of the civilization versus barbarians storyline, every org has a reason to hate every other org if they choose because of etc etc reasons that were listed ad nauseum, and all of these storylines exist in this game because they were deliberately created and inserted into the game - so that players can make political choices that have significance and impact, and that are driven more than "but the story tells me to do so".
This is, however, a double edged sword, because on theory, on paper, it can mean that there is a possible political reason to go even 5 v 1, and that's something that, well, rarely is a good idea in a game centered around conflict and contests, and the need to maintain, if not fairness, then at least the concept of "competition". I was around for the tail end of when Shuyin and co. pulled that off, but I would say that most people looking back with hindsight glasses would be able to say the end of that Glom-against-the-world alliance setup was inevitable in our game system.
And herein lies the problem: the unspoken, but largely recognized aspect, that a 3v3 is pretty much the only alliance lineup that is remotely sustainable.
Now, on to Glomdoring drama - one thing I love the most about being in Glom is that I can actually say "I want my hands off of this." and I can. The good thing about being "secretive" is that the drama doesn't drain my energy to be in the game, because it isn't in public domain. It happens in the ruling council clan, where those with their interests at stake can duke it out for control, and rarely bleeds over to the main commune channels. (Though when it does bleed out, the drama usually results in fairly messy stuff happening)
Now, the perplexing thing is... why is the current situation even dramatic? There's no such thing as common sense (the only thing common to human sensibility is idiocy) but the current developments are as close to common sense as such a concept can be defined. It was obvious the quarrel was coming months ago. The only alternative to the current situation was Serenwilde leaving the alliance. Period. There was literally no way Seren or Glom would agree to an alliance, indirect or not. Eventually, someone would say "this isn't going to work out" - it would either be a Glom, any Glom really (even me), or it would be a Seren, any Seren, most probably Avurekhos. How long such an arrangement can last in a limbo state was the only real question, and there are as many impatient people in Glom as there are in Seren. Just so happens that Salome decided to pull the trigger before someone else did. No big deal.
I'm not sure if Halli and Celest knew much about the internal debate in Glom, but I would be very surprised if their leaders could not put 2 and 2 together and understand that having both Glom and Seren together in an extended alliance would never work out. It was obvious (to me, at least) that this wasn't a situation that would last. If Seren didn't say they wanted out (which was what Glom going into the alliance was waiting to happen), then Glom will say their goodbyes. If Halli and Celest leadership were really hoping for some sort of indefinite compromise from either Seren or Glom, then they need new eyes. Ie. it was never going to happen.
It's a race of chicken, basically. One of the four parties has to say, "One of those two guys needs to leave." and it just so happens that enough time has passed that such has exactly happened, and it just so happens to be Glom. This is also what I mean when I say, no real intervention is needed "yet". Letting it play out on its own would have led to this anyway. It may be a little unfair of me to say this AFTER the fact has happened (the classic I-told-you-so that means nothing) but... it really was inevitable, trust me on that.
Alright, so we're both troubled with one another. That's clear enough. And yes, I am caught with the same conclusion and it makes me sad. Maybe it's just me knee-jerk reaction when you ask me anything, I'll have to work on that as I have said to you before, but at least there has to be some sort of way we meet halfway. As long as we understand that we're on the same side, and that perfection will never be attained by Salome as a character, seeing as ruling representative is a hard job anyway, yeah, I signed up for it - Then we can count on things going uphill from here. I've talked to @Davos, about some things that can make things in Court easier, and after we get this issue settled I'm going to be delving into Glomdoring's laws and legislative laws to prevent this kind of crap from ever happening.
However, IG it is Wyrden Supremacy vs. Shee-Slaugh, not just me alone. There are plenty of other people frustrated, frustrated with peace, frustrated with the time water takes to boil. It's beyond just me, I hope you realize. It's actually in the RP now, because many people believe that the Shee-Slaugh, though wanting what's best for the Wyrd doesn't really get it. Or at least, because of communication issues, we haven't understood one another enough to get each other. But up until now, we're making a start right? So that's good. That's all I care about now, which is obviously helping my outlook.
The apple is cold, crisp, and sour as the juices fill your mouth. As you consume the fruit, you glimpse, for a moment, a massive, shadowy figure, Her snow-white hair framing a perfect, icy-eyed visage. Beneath you, a vast, perfect web of silken strands lies - and, for a moment, you realize that you too are part of it, weaver and strand both - and home.
While inevitable, as Hallifax at least knew, we have been purposefully feeding off the indecision because it puts Gaudi and Mag (one our antithesis-enemy, one an enemy of Celest who we're on more solid ground with) out to not have their third for conflicts. It wasn't lack of foresight, Lerad, but rather calculated politics.
Shuyin, I think, called us out on it a loooong time ago (only Hallifax and Celest benefit from this 4v2) but nobody listened to him.
I don't disagree it was inevitable, @Lerad. I'd just rather we had had more discussion about what should happen as a result. The suddenness is not about "oh hey, right, we hate Serenwilde", but more about why we needed to take Celina's simple solution rather than figuring something else out.
"Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
@Kethaera But, either way, the result would have been the same. @Celina 's solution was just ripping the band aid out, rather than pulling at it inch by painful inch.
To clarify something, Serenwilde was never exactly happy to ally with Glomdoring. There were a few vocal people in the commune pushing for it but it was hardly the general consensus. Most of the non-aggression was forced in Faethorn because of Maeve and the Gods, not really by choice. The fact that Mant chopped off Hoaracle's hand didn't exactly help the peace cause there either, though I doubt it would have happened regardless of that.
The whole situation is annoying and complicated because Serenwilde wants (wanted?) to stay allied with Celest/Hallifax, but then Glom basically butted in as far we're concerned. The whole confusing nature pretty much brought me to the point of "Whatever, I don't care what happens so long as it's something."
Alright, so we're both troubled with one another. That's clear enough. And yes, I am caught with the same conclusion and it makes me sad. Maybe it's just me knee-jerk reaction when you ask me anything, I'll have to work on that as I have said to you before, but at least there has to be some sort of way we meet halfway. As long as we understand that we're on the same side, and that perfection will never be attained by Salome as a character, seeing as ruling representative is a hard job anyway, yeah, I signed up for it - Then we can count on things going uphill from here. I've talked to @Davos, about some things that can make things in Court easier, and after we get this issue settled I'm going to be delving into Glomdoring's laws and legislative laws to prevent this kind of crap from ever happening.
However, IG it is Wyrden Supremacy vs. Shee-Slaugh, not just me alone. There are plenty of other people frustrated, frustrated with peace, frustrated with the time water takes to boil. It's beyond just me, I hope you realize. It's actually in the RP now, because many people believe that the Shee-Slaugh, though wanting what's best for the Wyrd doesn't really get it. Or at least, because of communication issues, we haven't understood one another enough to get each other. But up until now, we're making a start right? So that's good. That's all I care about now, which is obviously helping my outlook.
Ehh... I rarely know what the "Shee-Slaugh" wants as a collective, @Salome. If this is the perspective of some people, it's unfortunate, but I don't understand the justification. At the time it was done, teaming up with Hallifax seemed like the best solution, and we mostly kind of agreed to go along with it as a group. The fact that the SS people were the most positive about it was not because 1. We like drinking tea with them, or 2. We also wanted to team up with Serenwilde. It just happens that "the family" tends to be a bunch of like-minded people who came to similar conclusions. And you agreed to the treaty, too, with the rest of us, back when it was made- there's no reason to assume that we wouldn't like things to change now.
But there is so much more about this that I really just don't want to deal with anymore. I'm tired of it, as a player, much as I'd like to believe we can all be one big happy family again. It's not just because of you, it's the feeling that I'm always going to be going against certain people(can't even blame Celina anymore) and the people that actually tend to help me/be pleasant to hang out with are increasingly shrinking in Glom. The hostility that I get from a select few makes it very tiring to even try, and hearing that I'm the one apparently causing a huge part of these problems Glom has doesn't make me want to participate in things, 'for the glory of the wyrd' or whatever.
"Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
Comments
Salome as a character (and player) is not suddenly having problems with everything, she's already had these problems, and she HAS been working on these problems with/against you for rounding about a decade now in Glomdoring. You can go ahead and just tag me if you're going to be this obvious about things, then just say so. I have no problem with being mentioned, as long as I am able to defend my position within this whole mess of things, just as Celina is when she is mentioned. Communication has been heavily present as far as I am concerned, and here's why you probably haven't been hearing any of it.
What is also really funny, is that the everyone and everything will respond to me a 'screw whatever you think, this is way better because I like it more than you, and I hate your thing more than my thing, so its obviously better,' regardless of how I post, how I RP it, even if it is genial, nice, sweet, or full of rainbows. "People" will just tear it up, and maybe that's the habit of really passionate players and all - I do that a lot, I have been known to destroy posts on the basis that I have lost my temper. But I don't use other people to post their ideas for me when I am unsure of the environment, especially in terms of foreign affairs the subject is hostile and def-con 10 if I even breathe a word of it. You have been voicing your opinions, and you know it. And they call for everything that isn't any idea of mine, most of it was devil's advocate, but it was definitely counter-intuitive to trying to fix anything at all. You are right that I was extremely agitated when I wrote how Glomdoring sucks (because that's how it was viewed, it was really Glomdoring could rock if you see the truth of the matter/we eat Hallifaxian fart leftovers), but you know what? At least it got the conversation going once more, and I could actually be truthful to how my character see's this deadlock. It wasn't a sudden decision, it was a long time coming. Even before @Celina decided to leave, I was going to cough up a spine and say something.
And what @Tarkenton reminded me of afterwards is that we still all have to work together to achieve a product. Which is why I believe that we can move forward to some compromise, instead of smacking each other around. It's exhausting, true, but let me tell you. What else is fun, draining and completely apathetic making is how people who support Salome don't get upset when Salome is attacked/dragged through the wyrden mud/ect. I don't get the kind of backing that the Shee-Slaugh do when they feel threatened by something, whatever minor part of my post that it may be. Which is why I have been working around people to provide information through my posts and those who ask me, 'what's up?' It's a lot easier not to feel bullied or harassed OOCly when I'm just speaking to individuals, I can actually stay in character.
But yes, we did have a try at that individual talk, Keth. I really tried to tell you what's happening. But when I did tell you of what is happening now and you grow belligerent in RP and then basically act like its all my fault for basically putting the hammer down on Keth's behavior. It's really frustrating to try to RP with you just because of these issues. But, if that's how your character acts who am I to police it, I can only react with what comes natural to my character, which is to grow vague because she's being bullied, loses her temper or completely shuts down. After almost six-seven months of RP in Glomdoring with you, you should know this - especially after their last spat, but you press anyway, and then blame me for not communicating with you. I tried, if that wasn't good enough, well nuts I am sorry if I have hurt your feelings somehow. If you say that communication is a problem, it's not on my end. Do you see this post? It's ridiculously long.
But in RP, I don't have the opportunity to act victimized, I am too busy wanting Glomdoring to become a better organisation OOCly and IG. I am fiercely dedicated to Glomdoring if that isn't obvious, I was willing to go all the way to VA to make sure that we have really good representation in PK even though I heavily favor RP most times. Far more than any other org I have been in. I want to stay here, and without saying that I'm threatening, I can tell you it has been difficult. Not just because of you, if you're reading this the wrong way, but because of how we go about things the wrong way. I think I am going to lay some ground-rules for how the Court conducts business soon in a proposal, just for everyone and see if we can't clear all of this tension IG and OOCly up with some good old fashioned protocol.
No Org really has a reason to like any other Org, it is just that we find OOC friends and we are so desperate to get involved in PK that we find a way to sugar coat our RP to still play with them.
"Oh you left X Org for Y Org. Well that's ok cause I like to "rp" with you and I like to fight on your side, so I will just alter my character's perception to ignore that pesky little thing called... you betrayed everything my character and my Org should be standing for."
Saying anything else is deluding yourself.
Lots of words do not equal communication.
And I think you absolutely should, and it'd be a positive change.
I agree.
Alright, so we're both troubled with one another. That's clear enough. And yes, I am caught with the same conclusion and it makes me sad. Maybe it's just me knee-jerk reaction when you ask me anything, I'll have to work on that as I have said to you before, but at least there has to be some sort of way we meet halfway. As long as we understand that we're on the same side, and that perfection will never be attained by Salome as a character, seeing as ruling representative is a hard job anyway, yeah, I signed up for it - Then we can count on things going uphill from here. I've talked to @Davos, about some things that can make things in Court easier, and after we get this issue settled I'm going to be delving into Glomdoring's laws and legislative laws to prevent this kind of crap from ever happening.
However, IG it is Wyrden Supremacy vs. Shee-Slaugh, not just me alone. There are plenty of other people frustrated, frustrated with peace, frustrated with the time water takes to boil. It's beyond just me, I hope you realize. It's actually in the RP now, because many people believe that the Shee-Slaugh, though wanting what's best for the Wyrd doesn't really get it. Or at least, because of communication issues, we haven't understood one another enough to get each other. But up until now, we're making a start right? So that's good. That's all I care about now, which is obviously helping my outlook.
Shuyin, I think, called us out on it a loooong time ago (only Hallifax and Celest benefit from this 4v2) but nobody listened to him.
Ehh... I rarely know what the "Shee-Slaugh" wants as a collective, @Salome. If this is the perspective of some people, it's unfortunate, but I don't understand the justification. At the time it was done, teaming up with Hallifax seemed like the best solution, and we mostly kind of agreed to go along with it as a group. The fact that the SS people were the most positive about it was not because 1. We like drinking tea with them, or 2. We also wanted to team up with Serenwilde. It just happens that "the family" tends to be a bunch of like-minded people who came to similar conclusions. And you agreed to the treaty, too, with the rest of us, back when it was made- there's no reason to assume that we wouldn't like things to change now.