Alliances

Davos

Hey guys, since Raves was kinda taken over by alliance rants, I wanted to just make a new thread for it.


Specifically @shuyin You mentioned the gods in Achaea took steps to insure independence. I hadn't really heard about that, what happened there?

Maligorn

I was late to the topic and what @Celina said, but if she thinks Hallifax doesn't help with villages or aetherbubbles, it's probably for the best that Glom and Halli split up. Hallifax doesn't need any freeloaders.

Celina never really wanted to commit to the alliance cause it meant fighting the goon squad, whom she's friends with. Fine and dandy and fair weathery, but not really a basis upon which to call out Glom on its politicking. It's probably for the best that she finally up and left to PK with the people she wanted to PK with.

Current political situation is bad and boring for PKers but great for Hallifax in general, as evidenced by their frequent and consistent conquests lately. So I'm ambivalent.

Synkarin

Maligorn said:

Current political situation is bad and boring for PKers but great for Hallifax in general, as evidenced by their frequent and consistent conquests lately. So I'm ambivalent.

This comes across as a pretty 'fair-weathery' comment itself. It basically reads to me 'we're winning because we don't have anyone to compete against, so I'm all for that'

Maligorn

And that's fine, because I haven't competed for anything in a long time. I'm just an armchair forumsist at this point!

EDIT: The main takeaway was really that she's finally PKing with people she wants to PK with, and really I think that anything other than that desire being met is fluff or trying to shift blame. Nothing to be guilty for, though.

Arcanis

Im pretty happy with Mag's political situation: Kill all, except Gaudi, but they are barely around these days, so kill all!


Much fun.

Cyndarin

Lol. Fair weather. Is Gaudi winning something I'm not aware of? Last I checked Hallifax and Celest control most on POLITICS. 

Goon squad may be my friends, buy separate from that, the Goon squad is leaps and bounds more capable than the whole of Hallifax's equivelent. It's simply a reality. That is why I would rather PK with them, I trust them to engage competently, have my back, and continue to engage even if the odds are against them. I would rather PK with Synkarin and Shuyin before Elanorwen and you, for example, because I trust them more than I trust the two of you to not bail or mess things up. As a competent PKer, I want to PK with the same. Not babysit people who are not. You're just word vomiting assumptions, which while predictable, are not accurate. 

The politics of Glomdoring ignore the competency levels of PKers across orgs. It measures success based on who likes who on a personal  level and what the hierarchy of grudges they currently hold, Magnagora being on top of that list. They fail in considering what alliances will reap the most tangeable benefit.

edit: I've engaged in PK more with Gaudi in the past week or so than the past couple of months I did with Glom. I've actually died more than I've killed people. If this is "fair weather," I'm doing something wrong. Perhaps it is having teammates that will start a fight with you that is far more engaging to a PKer than just sitting on my thumbs.

edit2: For the record, Glom has PKers that will fight but they don't have the same login times as I do (Lerad and Tarkenton, for example).

Thalkros

Alliances are pretty crappy in Lusternia mainly because of the giant influence outside factors make on them, or don't make on them when they should. 

Diplomacy and Politics basically get kneecapped because of two reasons 1) We like easy victories that don't require us to take a bad loss and being carried is nice. 2) Some event/person did something we don't like 10 RL years ago and we're going to stand on my mountaintop and denounce you till kethuru finally wins.

Then you get alliances that don't make any sense because there's usually never 100% support on both sides. I feel like Hallifax and maybe to a degree Gaudiguch are the only two org's that for the most part will give 100% of the support that they receive. 

To explain what I mean by this, we can go back in time to IronHart when Horacle used to actively push Seren's to not come to Nil or Earth and help us during raids. While yes, some people like Enyalida said YOLO and came anyway, yet when I would sit in the middle of a group of Seren's defending their avatars for hours and then when the mob would move to nil, all those people who were so happy to have my support suddenly go 'sorry, can't come, because RP' It's like... uggghhhhh #Headdesk.

Also Serenwilde suffered from the pox that was having Lehkiscendant. I don't know how many times Akyaevin and I would help secure Serenwilde a Domoth, only to have Lehki ALWAYS upgrade on prime peak time for Equinox, and even then when we would help defend the claim, he'd never have any essence so every time he died it took him 10+ minutes to reform, which usually always resorted in Serenwilde losing the Domoth.

Now with Hallifax, we never really had this problem. We typically always seemed to get along with each other, even when the alliance broke up. I've not been enemied to anything Hallifax related in RL years, if ever. Outside of what I assume is just boredom absolves(we need an entire new thread for me to rant about stupid absolve mechanics) and Aeden sticking to celest like glue, Hallifax even right now is pretty chill.

Working with Gaudiguch has been fine, ever since Haiden/Lyria/etc moved on Gaudi has been a respectable ally, albeit mostly a ghost town. 

Glomdoring is a pain in itself to work with, and I'm pretty sure every Glom will swear up and down it's never them, it's always their allies. But I've had conversations with Glom leaders and even they will tell me how internally there are people that cause problems just to cause problems. I mean, I wasn't here for the Maeve stuff, nor was I active when Silvanus was trying to resolve it, however I feel like if Glom and Mag would just agree to never mention the name Maeve ever again until such a time as we had a Fain and a Raezon that actually wanted to do something about. To be frank, if something happened IC more than 1 real life year ago, and people are still torn up about it IC, I feel like both IC and OOCly you should just let that stuff go. Hell, I used to have a massive hate boner for Revan and Daevos, the former I kicked out of Magnagora just because the Geomancers elected him to GM. That's not even been that long ago, and I've let that crap go and don't even lose sleep over it anymore.

Plus, Glom and Mag both have fair weather players(and alts) that only like to come around to cause trouble, or log in late at night when bored and raid, etc. These players also harm our relations with each other but we never seem to ever excise them.

tldr: The alliances that work out seem to only be those where nothing bad ever happened in the past with X and Y org. The ones that don't work out are the ones where X org has bittervet syndrome towards Y org, and vise versa, thus X and Y org will always snip at each other or half ass the alliance just because of stuff older than half the playerbase OR X org does all the work while Y org just gets the benefits and then doesn't ever really carry their weight.

I'd like it if Lusternia alliances went to a place where it could just be Mag v Celest, Glom v Seren, Halli v Gaudi and no one jumped into each others picnic. Or at most, each of us just grabbed one buddy, and we all assaulted each other in a 2 on 2 on 2. This 1.25 v 4 alliance stinks, and even 3 on 3 can get a little meh because there is always going to be that one member who gets carried, and no one really likes that.

Maligorn

Celina said:

Lol. Fair weather. Is Gaudi winning something I'm not aware of? Last I checked Hallifax and Celest control most on POLITICS. 

Goon squad may be my friends, buy separate from that, the Goon squad is leaps and bounds more capable than the whole of Hallifax's equivelent. It's simply a reality. That is why I would rather PK with them, I trust them to engage competently, have my back, and continue to engage even if the odds are against them. I would rather PK with Synkarin and Shuyin before Elanorwen and you, for example, because I trust them more than I trust the two of you to not bail or mess things up. As a competent PKer, I want to PK with the same. Not babysit people who are not. You're just word vomiting assumptions, which while predictable, are not accurate. 

The politics of Glomdoring ignore the competency levels of PKers across orgs. It measures success based on who likes who on a personal  level and what the hierarchy of grudges they currently hold, Magnagora being on top of that list. They fail in considering what alliances will reap the most tangeable benefit.

edit: I've engaged in PK more with Gaudi in the past week or so than the past couple of months I did with Glom. I've actually died more than I've killed people. If this is "fair weather," I'm doing something wrong. Perhaps it is having teammates that will start a fight with you that is far more engaging to a PKer than just sitting on my thumbs.

It's fair weather because you chose not to raid Gaudiguch during your time in Glomdoring, instead preying on Ladies and sometimes Nil? Fuck if I know; the point is, you were NOT taking all the PK opportunities you could've taken, e.g. Fire Lords or other Gaudiguchi objectives. I think that's fair weather, you would probably call it RP in that you didn't want to piss off the people you wanted to ally back with. That's fine. But blaming Glom for your PK deficiency is pretty lame.

As for PKing more, of course you are, you went to the 2 side of the 2v4 alliance.

Davos

I feel like to your point about Hallifax and Gaudi, it has a lot to do with the fact that our RP really doesn't restrict us from doing what is reasonable or beneficial.

Of course, that only goes so far. Hallifax hosted a referendum to see if we should pursue an alliance with Gaudiguch, to which Jadice said she'd leave Hallifax and Zvoltz strongly warned against it. It still went 13 against, 12 for.

To be fair, if Hallifax and Gaudiguch aligned, it'd be pretty unfair for the rest of the game because none of the other opposing orgs would ever do that, so we'd always have number advantage so I don't blame the gods for stepping in against that.

However, that's kinda the difference between Hallifax/Gaudi and the other nations. We don't actually have any reason to dislike each other or anyone else inherently in our RP.

Synkarin

Gaudi and Glom have kept up a pretty straight 'gentleman's agreement' since Glom bailed on us during Ascension. We've (for the most part) left each other alone.

There's instances where that's not the case (usually involving @Malarious), but othertimes too (like the failed DL raid I was in the other week) but it's stuck for awhile. 

My side (and I think the rest of Gaudi's side) being that we don't want to promote a 4v2 permanently, so we leave Glom alone, they leave us alone (in domoths, villages etc, again for the most part, not 100%) and it makes it easier for us to compete.

Even when a Glom or Gaudi does show up, it's usually to  only kill certain people (like Xenthos dropping Mags). 

So, you're right, she wasn't raiding Gaudi, but nobody was, nor has anybody really raided us recently (except for the one time that Shedrin couldn't get anyone's attention).

Thalkros

@Davos Exactly, which is why I think Hallifax/Gaudi are always the best allies for anyone to have. Because outside of random 1 or 2 random bad apples that come and go in both Orgs, the general populace is actually usually pretty chill and will work with whoever they are with without making it a big deal. Moreso Hallifax I feel because you guys never had to deal with the Gen 1 leadership that Gaudi had. 

I also understand not wanting to piss your active divine off either, since they are going to be the main people who don't ever break their RP. It's hard for Mag to have that feeling since every time we get an active god they are regulated to mostly being coder guys or always seeming to be the most busy individuals OOCly. (I miss you RaeRae come baaaack) 

Cyndarin

Maligorn said:

Celina said:

Lol. Fair weather. Is Gaudi winning something I'm not aware of? Last I checked Hallifax and Celest control most on POLITICS. 

Goon squad may be my friends, buy separate from that, the Goon squad is leaps and bounds more capable than the whole of Hallifax's equivelent. It's simply a reality. That is why I would rather PK with them, I trust them to engage competently, have my back, and continue to engage even if the odds are against them. I would rather PK with Synkarin and Shuyin before Elanorwen and you, for example, because I trust them more than I trust the two of you to not bail or mess things up. As a competent PKer, I want to PK with the same. Not babysit people who are not. You're just word vomiting assumptions, which while predictable, are not accurate. 

The politics of Glomdoring ignore the competency levels of PKers across orgs. It measures success based on who likes who on a personal  level and what the hierarchy of grudges they currently hold, Magnagora being on top of that list. They fail in considering what alliances will reap the most tangeable benefit.

edit: I've engaged in PK more with Gaudi in the past week or so than the past couple of months I did with Glom. I've actually died more than I've killed people. If this is "fair weather," I'm doing something wrong. Perhaps it is having teammates that will start a fight with you that is far more engaging to a PKer than just sitting on my thumbs.

It's fair weather because you chose not to raid Gaudiguch during your time in Glomdoring, instead preying on Ladies and sometimes Nil? Fuck if I know; the point is, you were NOT taking all the PK opportunities you could've taken, e.g. Fire Lords or other Gaudiguchi objectives. I think that's fair weather, you would probably call it RP in that you didn't want to piss off the people you wanted to ally back with. That's fine. But blaming Glom for your PK deficiency is pretty lame.

As for PKing more, of course you are, you went to the 2 side of the 2v4 alliance.

You really are remarkably partisan. Indiscriminate soloing of whoever I am not currently bound to an alliance with because of a third party's decision is not what "fair weather" means. You are not using this term correctly. 

More to the point, I can't be both "fair weather" and willingly choosing the 2 in a 2v4. 

Shuyin

I really just meant that in achaea, the gods seem to give off the vibe that every side other than your own is bad because of x reasons. Targ fights everyone except Cyrene, same with the other orgs, and so on.

I mean, I still think it's super weird that glom and seren don't fight or if they do, they needed to have a written contract with celest and Halliday to do so. But I digress.

I'll address this more when I get back too.

Ps gaudi is a super ghost town but give us a reason to do things and it'll happen. I just need to pen you in.

Thalkros

Even when a Glom or Gaudi does show up, it's usually to  only kill certain people (like Xenthos dropping Arcanis). <---- Fixed

Salome

Maligorn said:

Celina said:

Lol. Fair weather. Is Gaudi winning something I'm not aware of? Last I checked Hallifax and Celest control most on POLITICS. 

Goon squad may be my friends, buy separate from that, the Goon squad is leaps and bounds more capable than the whole of Hallifax's equivelent. It's simply a reality. That is why I would rather PK with them, I trust them to engage competently, have my back, and continue to engage even if the odds are against them. I would rather PK with Synkarin and Shuyin before Elanorwen and you, for example, because I trust them more than I trust the two of you to not bail or mess things up. As a competent PKer, I want to PK with the same. Not babysit people who are not. You're just word vomiting assumptions, which while predictable, are not accurate. 

The politics of Glomdoring ignore the competency levels of PKers across orgs. It measures success based on who likes who on a personal  level and what the hierarchy of grudges they currently hold, Magnagora being on top of that list. They fail in considering what alliances will reap the most tangeable benefit.

edit: I've engaged in PK more with Gaudi in the past week or so than the past couple of months I did with Glom. I've actually died more than I've killed people. If this is "fair weather," I'm doing something wrong. Perhaps it is having teammates that will start a fight with you that is far more engaging to a PKer than just sitting on my thumbs.

It's fair weather because you chose not to raid Gaudiguch during your time in Glomdoring, instead preying on Ladies and sometimes Nil? Fuck if I know; the point is, you were NOT taking all the PK opportunities you could've taken, e.g. Fire Lords or other Gaudiguchi objectives. I think that's fair weather, you would probably call it RP in that you didn't want to piss off the people you wanted to ally back with. That's fine. But blaming Glom for your PK deficiency is pretty lame.

As for PKing more, of course you are, you went to the 2 side of the 2v4 alliance.

Let's not get this thread closed @Maligorn, because obviously there is validity to some of the things that Celina has been saying regardless of how she acts IG. Being salty about it will not help anything if you're just here to nitpick. This is about alliances, not who has done what, and wow that's really bad of them talk time. Sorry cupcake.

We must all keep in mind that this is just a game, and in games we do things that make us happy. @Celina, is, if you'll excuse me, darling, is the perfect example of this. If something happens that makes Lusternia boring, what do people usually do? They try to change it, or they go somewhere else. And knowing Celina to some degree, she doesn't take crap, she tried to change it but 0% of the people would listen so she left. While she did leave, things triggered some changes in RP. And while I am not the most notable PKer, I can say that I am budding at least. I can also say that Glomdoring has grown incredibly boring, in hindsight - Because of the PK being non-existent, and because of the RPers butting heads over which principles are the best. It frustrates me, it makes me sad, and it overall ruins my experience, it doesn't make me want to log in.  And with such issues, this has left us in an eternal chokehold of how people want to keep going on and being happy with different things in comparison to what makes me happy. I am ALL for compromise, but my character isn't. And in RP, my character sees that warriors/Pkers valuable people are growing restless with how Glomdoring kind of rolls over and yells, 'WELL, THEY'LL COME AROUND EVENTUALLY...maybe...Hopefully...No, you won't? Okay that's cool, we'll wait...' My reaction simply is: 'This is not Glomdoring gais, y u do this.' And the cycle happens over and over and over.

Unless some huge miracles happen to where Celest can choose Glomdoring over Serenwilde, and where Hallifax is no longer a neutral Collective of academe.  The gridlock will not change without CHANGE, and I mean big change. RPers will not loosen their teeth, even if it IS for a compromise. And while I don't want to be fair weather, and what to make my org the greatest it has been since the last time it rocked the house - Then I honestly don't know what to do. Talking with @Thalkros has really shown me the perspective, as well as his post, concerning Glomdoring in general. If someone else from another ORG is talking this way about us, then why can't we just come around to find some way to compromise IG? What does that say about the community base in Glomdoring as a whole?

Just some things to think about, because honestly organizations should be really nice places for everyone. And while we are passionate players, obviously - I am, too. I have a temper, I'm obviously frustrated at this current thing - Then why can't we just set aside the differences and make Lusternia better?

Eodh

Heh. Does anyone else remember when people said Hallifax was the freeloader in the Celest-Glom alliance

good times

Maligorn

Everyone freeloads at some point or another. It's nbd, but I was using an example of total ungratefulness and selective memory to make a point.

Thalkros

I don't remember a time that Hallifax ever freeloaded, must have been like a 1 month spurt. From Team Prav to Present, Hallifax has always had their own not-so-goonie goon squad. Some of you may not remember when they used to basically live on Fire and Vortex crushing Gaudi so bad that no one ever logged in until Malarious, myself, and a few other Mag's would scare them off.

Cyndarin

Hallifax has definitely had a moocher period. Especially when it first opened, it was all but inacapable of defending anything because the first round of leaders decided to punish PKers and limit their progression as some sort of RPer vengeance against their now overthrown PK overlords. 

Shedrin

Hallifax freeloaded before Prav. Due to various reasons (like the Caste system), we had very little warriors, and what we did have were mostly young and inexperienced (like myself). Then there was a period after Prav left that we became pretty weak again, but since then, to my knowledge we've done alright. Ups and downs as any org, but never rock bottom.

Enyalida

I think that Thalkros is right here, in that there is a remarkable amount of baggage that comes with the older orgs that makes things weird in a LOT of ways, not just for alliances. It also doesn't help that any 'diplomacy' is totally opt in, regardless of what RP might or might not dictate. 

Honestly, we (the playerbase) engage in large scale alliances because without them, the player base is to fractured to have much fun. Having some allied nations provides a cushion protecting against fluctuating populations totally boning an org. Serenwilde is a ghost town? That's okay, we're allied with X nation and Y nation, we can interact (RP, PK, whatever) with them while they have more people than we do. In the lore, each of the nations has many many more people than it does players, creating a disconnect between what could happen and what does actually happen. 

A few comments on things said previously in the thread: @Salome, Celest has chosen Glomdoring over Serenwilde before - long term. That was the IronHart era, and generally things were more competitive back then, though not to a massive degree. 

@Thalkros I'm not sure that the problem here is that people are breaking RP, beyond the disconnect I mentioned earlier. Every org has legitimate reason to ally with any other org against a third group of orgs who they have equally legitimate reason to be enemies with. In character, I try very much to stress that Celest and Hallifax are equivalently bad from a Serenwilde perspective (in different ways) as Magnagora and Gaudiguch are. Newer players who weren't around for earlier permutations of the alliances (or the days when there were fewer orgs) have said (both IC and OOC) that Serenwilde ever allying with Magnagora or Glomdoring would mean that RP IS DEEEEAAAAD or something, when it's happened in the past and the world didn't end. Arguably, the world was better back then. 

I don't think that @Celina comments (in the Raves thread) about it being a problem that RPers decide the RP and the PK while PKers only PK is true either. From my perspective, it's more of a problem that there are so few RP tools org leaders have to engage with anyone who doesn't feel like engaging with them, in their org or other orgs. 

Daraius

Davos said:

Hallifax hosted a referendum to see if we should pursue an alliance with Gaudiguch, to which Jadice said she'd leave Hallifax and Zvoltz strongly warned against it. It still went 13 against, 12 for.

I feel like this could have had some legs if it hadn't been presented as "we must form an alliance with Gaudiguch immediately." 

Enyalida

TBH, the best solution to fixing wonky alliances and low-conflict would be to collapse orgs so that there are not six independent nations that cannot all realistically play by themselves.  That could happen any number of ways while still preserving the lore and flavor of the different orgs in a new form. 

Zvoltz

Davos said:

We don't actually have any reason to dislike each other or anyone else inherently in our RP.

That's not event remotely true, unless you're solely referring to the RP that players invent for themselves.

• Seren and Glom are barbaric and uncivilised savages. They barely even register as something that can be liked or disliked. And their veneration of the "Great" Spirits is dumb.
  

• Celest is a bunch of stuck-up people obsessed with the Supernals and a slavish devotion to morality rather than the pragmatism of logic and science. The Institute actually receives a future vision of Celest finally realizing how "evil" Hallifax is and trying to destroy them, which seems like Hallifax should be wary of Celest.
  

• Mag is Tainted which isn't really something you look for in a bestie. Also their Patrons are all Traitors, so two of Hallifax's three gods are not even remotely cool with that. And they are ugly (city aesthetics wise. I'm sure the players are all beautiful people inside and out).

• Gaudiguch... is the actual antithesis of everything Hallifax values.

Players are free to ignore that (at their own peril, sometimes), but the idea that Gaudi and Halli are set up to be freely available to buddy up with any other org, no baggage attached, is not at all true.

Enyalida

Except that some of those things are immediately and obviously disprovable after even cursory interaction with people from other orgs, at least in the case of the first two bullet points. 

A lot of the 'setup' antithesis RP always felt highly declarative to me, starting from "You hate each other" and only getting to why much later, if at all. That isn't to say that every org doesn't have reasons to dislike every other org. It's just more that the four hundred plus years of IG conflict tend to trump "The guy who was in this org when it came back into the world REALLY hates that guy that was in the other org when it came back. I'm originally from Glomdoring, but I must care a lot about their ancient disupute" plot lines. 

Zvoltz

Enyalida said:

That isn't to say that every org doesn't have reasons to dislike every other org.

Yes, that was my exact point.

Of course they are varying shades of grey to any RP or value system. Of course the current landscape dictates how a modern org feels about its allies and enemies. Of course there is both lore and modern baggage attached to any opinion about another org. If you look at any org at the most base level, it is the same as any other: it has players, they have some skills, some of them like certain parts of the game mechanics and others don't, some of them are cool and some are aggravating. But, if that was the way we treated the game we could just name 3 orgs Red Team and 3 orgs Blue Team and get about the same result.

You can't have it both ways though. If you are provided with actual lore reasons why one org doesn't get along with the other, you can't say "we have no RP that says we feel a certain way!" just because you feel that RP is declarative or is far enough back in history or ignore, or just doesn't meet your standard of how you think the org works. How much weight you give to that lore or RP is your personal choice, but it certainly continues to exist whether you acknowledge it or not.

Thalkros

Zvoltz said:

• Mag is Tainted which isn't really something you look for in a bestie. Also their Patrons are all Traitors, so two of Hallifax's three gods are not even remotely cool with that. And they are ugly (city aesthetics wise. I'm sure the players are all beautiful people inside and out).

Hey, hey guy. your words hurt

Daraius

Zvoltz said:

Davos said:

We don't actually have any reason to dislike each other or anyone else inherently in our RP.

That's not event remotely true, unless you're solely referring to the RP that players invent for themselves.

• Seren and Glom are barbaric and uncivilised savages. They barely even register as something that can be liked or disliked. And their veneration of the "Great" Spirits is dumb.
  

• Celest is a bunch of stuck-up people obsessed with the Supernals and a slavish devotion to morality rather than the pragmatism of logic and science. The Institute actually receives a future vision of Celest finally realizing how "evil" Hallifax is and trying to destroy them, which seems like Hallifax should be wary of Celest.
  

• Mag is Tainted which isn't really something you look for in a bestie. Also their Patrons are all Traitors, so two of Hallifax's three gods are not even remotely cool with that. And they are ugly (city aesthetics wise. I'm sure the players are all beautiful people inside and out).

• Gaudiguch... is the actual antithesis of everything Hallifax values.

Players are free to ignore that (at their own peril, sometimes), but the idea that Gaudi and Halli are set up to be freely available to buddy up with any other org, no baggage attached, is not at all true.

Yeah, I can't say I really buy that. You're suggesting that allying with another org is the same as embracing their ideals. Portius's post on the referendum pretty clearly outlines how Hallifax could spin a Gaudiguch alliance, and I think it's totally in line with Halli RP. Note also that Hallifax was allied with every other city as part of the HCE, and largely sat out of the events that destroyed the HCE. Clearly Gaudiguch and Hallifax had been able to maintain diplomatic ties (however strained) before the war, so from their perspective, what had changed for them to suggest it would be impossible post-war? When they got out of stasis, Cririk and Scuchidira ought to have assessed the climate, realized that everything had changed except them, and immediately allied with each other.  (P.S. I still voted no on the referendum. Different verbiage would have made all the difference for me.)

Enyalida

The point in that part of my comment being that Serenwilde (for instance) has base reasons to be enemied to every other org. However, on top of that Serenwilde has 400+ years of active conflict with Celest and Magnagora, slightly less with Glomdoring. With Hallifax and Gaudiguch, there is a vastly smaller number of years of modern history to complicate things. There are some 'background lore' reasons why we should absolutely hate each other's guts and not cooperate at all (or conversely, seeing as we regularly face existential threats from outside but never from other nations, should cooperate all of the time), but they just aren't practical for the players with such a thinly spread player base. That, or they're far more shallow than the rest of the game deserves. 

Ayisdra

Zvoltz said:

Mag is Tainted which isn't really something you look for in a bestie. Also their Patrons are all Traitors, so two of Hallifax's three gods are not even remotely cool with that. And they are ugly (city aesthetics wise. I'm sure the players are all beautiful people inside and out).

While I understand gods have real lives and I'm sure you guys are all very busy doing stuff to get us shiny things, saying things like this implies we know it. We don't know how @Jadice feels about other gods and orgs. In fact, the whole order and harmony vibe she gives off could very well be seen as even Traitors can have order to them (without the need for violence and imposing order ourselves). The fact that She said she hated Mysrai in a news post the other day was a surprise. Mysrai is not a Traitor and was even a Judge with Jadice. If anything, I assumed they were neutral with each other.

Now, @Zvoltz I can see hating everything not Hallifax, but he seems to be more open about his thoughts and whatnot on others.

Daraius

Can you two please change your avatars? I can't tell you apart. :P