To be fair, I argue against alliances that don't make sense and I argue against people who harbor silly and outdated reasons to not enter into an alliance that does make sense.
Magnagora, with how its set up, would really only be against a Celest alliance. Even though it DID happen many many moons ago (whenever you guys want to let me be friends for about 10 minutes to run Xion Initiative to unlock my next griefer achievement, just let me know!).
I'm certainly not expecting Serenwilde to up and change their entire stance on the whole anti-taint/corruption point, I just think it's dinky to even want to be in an alliance where you have to do a Marani style clue quest every time you go into an conquest event/fight just to see who is helping who and who can fight who against who.
It's the same when I look at Celest and Glom, that has never made sense on paper and never will yet they keep going back to each other like some terrible hollywood couple.
People like to say 'but if we didn't have X allies, then A B C would just curbstomp us and we'd be in a rut'. Magnagora and Gaudi Alliance is essentially Magnagora and Malarious, with guest appearances by Lothringen and Synkarin on random occasions. We seem to make do fairly well so maybe other orgs should just, I dunno... try living in that situation and seeing that things are possible with the right amount of dedication and moral boosting effects. We certainly didn't roll over and die after the mass d'Murani exodus, but I know every org isn't equipped for this sort of landscape.
@Kethaera: You and I must play different games. There has been drama over the Hallidoring alliance/treaty/relationship/it's complicated stuff for RL months and months. It's not as if you don't know this, it's not as if you specifically weren't sticking your nose in Gaudi/Mag business to defend Hallifax quite some time ago. You've definitely been pushing one specific perspective the entire time, going so far as to defend Hallifax against Gaudiguch/Mag. I mean, go forth, have fun, do whatever makes you enjoy the game but this whole bewilderment schtick doesn't make a lot of sense when we both know you've been physically involved, elbow deep in the mess for way longer than Salome's post.
Of course I have. That's not what I contradicted, @Celina, and I don't even know what I said that you're responding to here. Yes, I chose the allies I wanted, and argued and acted in that direction. So did you. The fact that I tended to be more active than some people and wanted to actually DO STUFF in addition to arguing about it is a pretty lousy argument for how I was causing unnecessary drama. I thought the whole point was that people are bored- so was I. But in the WEEKS since you left, NOTHING HAS HAPPENED. Nothing has been said. No complaints have been made that I heard- did they happen between other people? Over OOC clans? Entirely possible. Doesn't change the fact that I find the present drama sudden, random, and irritating.
The irony of this WHOLE SITUATION is that leading up to it, there were people (me) loudly warning other people (the Court, Glomdoring, the forums) that if Glom signed on with Hallifax/Celest, things were going to be very, very boring for everyone involved. This was not a surprise, unforseen result.
And I don't agree with your solution. But if it really is a problem that needs to fixed with this solution, there were still better ways to address it.
But I think the ultimate issue is what was stated. IDGAF what the PKers want. We're going to create alliances and you have to do the heavy lifting, so deal with it. However, if you try to do the same to us, or do things and tell us to deal with it, it's unfair. One way street.
Yeah. Because I play this game too, and kind of a lot, and thus, I get a say- by words or actions- in how politics play out. Deal with it. As it is, I participate in raids, revolts, flares, domoths, wildnodes, and pretty much anything else that comes along that doesn't have ridiculous alliance strings attached, and your characterization of me as being opposed to the pkers is absurd, in that light. What the hell am I if I show up to a fight?
Besides, Celina, YOU were the one primarily causing conflict against the alliance with Celest/Hallifax in the first place. Everytime it was brought up the response was "but what about Celina"? It's fair when you keep us from taking actions we want in politics, but if I do the same suddenly it's driving all the pkers away? Yeeeah... I see how this "one-way street" actually works.
"Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
The problem with Glomdoring trying to cozy up to Celest and Hallifax is that Serenwilde is trying to do that, too, but they (the two communes) don't want to cozy up with each other. It won't work well. One of you has to go, or else be stuck in diplomatic limbo (as is already happening).
You're certainly free to support an alliance with Celest and Hallifax, @Kethaera, but you have to take this into account, that not only do you have to choose to be with Celest and Hallifax, you also have to make them choose you over Serenwilde.
This is sounding more and more like relationship advice. What in the world.
The problem with Glomdoring trying to cozy up to Celest and Hallifax is that Serenwilde is trying to do that, too, but they (the two communes) don't want to cozy up with each other. It won't work well. One of you has to go, or else be stuck in diplomatic limbo (as is already happening).
You're certainly free to support an alliance with Celest and Hallifax, @Kethaera, but you have to take this into account, that not only do you have to choose to be with Celest and Hallifax, you also have to make them choose you over Serenwilde.
This is sounding more and more like relationship advice. What in the world.
Frankly I'm surprised Serenwilde isn't angrier about it. Our ALLIES are protecting and assisting their enemies. And we're letting them do it. Serenwilde is the current basin doormat. I'd be thrilled to see some old fierceness rise up and demand things change or we'll go elsewhere....but then apparently the commune is torn anyway. Some want to be friends with Glom. Some are happy as it is. Some want to break off with our allies and pursue Mag/Gaudi. In the mean time we do nothing and get left behind. What the hell politics. You're drunk. Go home.
The problem with Glomdoring trying to cozy up to Celest and Hallifax is that Serenwilde is trying to do that, too, but they (the two communes) don't want to cozy up with each other. It won't work well. One of you has to go, or else be stuck in diplomatic limbo (as is already happening).
You're certainly free to support an alliance with Celest and Hallifax, @Kethaera, but you have to take this into account, that not only do you have to choose to be with Celest and Hallifax, you also have to make them choose you over Serenwilde.
This is sounding more and more like relationship advice. What in the world.
Please don't be telling me things that I have been part of for months now, @Eodh. If it's obvious to you what the problem is, I can assure you that I've made the same observations. And as I said, I made my decision about what to do about it.
"Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
As long as you manage to get most of Glomdoring to support that decision, then everything's all squared away!
Just have to find enough chocolate and roses for every member of HalliCelest. Hmm... Well, roses are easy enough.
"Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
"Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
Like can we all just get along and just have more soulless released?
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
I'm sorry, @Kethaera, but you're a little full of shit and it sounds like IC grudges are spilling over OOCly. I never said you can't oppose the alliance, or that you weren't entitled to your position as a character or a player, and I'm not here to dictate to you what valid or good RP is. I'm just spelling out the reality of the situation and how it affects the health of your organization and the game as a whole, and that being hard to stomach means almost nothing to me. Your position does, matter of factly, drive away the PKing community (or do I need to explain why I left again), regardless of any imagined unfairness because my character opposed a treaty or whatever nonsense that post was about. Whether you feel that it is unfair that it does is a pointless discussion.
This "I play this game too, deal with it" meaningless sassy word vomit has nothing to do anything. Yes, you are entitled to play the game however you wish through words and actions. That does not release you from the consequences of those choices. This is not an argument about the right of choice, but the willful (or just plain) ignorance of consequences.
I mean, you said "IDGAF what the PKers want," and that being hard to digest for you now doesn't make it go away. Last I checked, the PKers you're addressing just wanted an active and healthy Glom population and players to have fun, and not just the pocket of people who want to RP with Hallifax in a manse over tea. Sorry that's so offensive to you.
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
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EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
Since it came up, the PK crowd can be just as annoying and stifling as the RP crowd. People like to play the way they play, and they'll inevitably annoy others.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
Since it came up, the PK crowd can be just as annoying and stifling as the RP crowd. People like to play the way they play, and they'll inevitably annoy others.
The point being made is there has to be some sort of middle ground.
The apple is cold, crisp, and sour as the juices fill your mouth. As you consume the fruit, you glimpse, for a moment, a massive, shadowy figure, Her snow-white hair framing a perfect, icy-eyed visage. Beneath you, a vast, perfect web of silken strands lies - and, for a moment, you realize that you too are part of it, weaver and strand both - and home.
Hallifax has definitely had a moocher period. Especially when it first opened, it was all but inacapable of defending anything because the first round of leaders decided to punish PKers and limit their progression as some sort of RPer vengeance against their now overthrown PK overlords.
I can attest to this. I was refused founder status in the Institute on an established character because, and I quote, "fighters are not as important as scientists to Hallifax".
Granted, founder status was really only given to members of Elostian's order, but that's another point entirely.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Was pondering whether I should say something, but kind of feel I should.
I must say myself, I have had my issues OOCly with Glom/Celest since the beginning, because I find it utterly hard to even make myself believe that Celest would want to have anything for glom other then "purge the taint". However, that's an ooc view based on the pieces of the history I got to read.
Still, sometimes alliances do form based on needs or common goals. The current 4vs2 thing is, in my opinion, not going to last. It's a temporary fluke that's already shattering and will eventually tear apart. And I certainly do hope that Celest's coming out on Seren's side, not Glomdorings, but cause it makes more sense in my book.
Part of me would always want to ally with all of them because each org has really lovely people that are fun to hang out with, but it would be entirely boring if we all were on the same page ICly :x
That being said, tides swap and things change often am sure they do here as well.
It's like the long, long period of Celest-Glomdoring (which outlasted Hallifax, then Gaudiguch, being the third wheel) never happened.
Every org has their own end goal in mind. It's just a matter of justifying the means of getting there. Celest can event ally with Magnagora (it's happened), for example, and have them fight with Glomdoring and say, "Let them weaken each other, then we can swoop in for the victory."
Let's not pretend New Celest is clean of any evil, too. It's the Resurgence of the Light, not Good. The two are not one and the same (at least, in Lusternian terms). Here, the Light is an actual cosmic force that New Celest wants to propagate in every place, even if the people in those places don't particularly care for it. If anything, just as Hallifax and Gaudiguch are the same drink in different colors, Glomdoring and New Celest are opposite sides of the same coin. Just sub Light with Wyrd and you're good to go.
@Eodh Sure, you can always justify the means for your orgs goal somehow, but in my personal ooc book, not all works. And no, Celest's not "good", at least not in what we usually would associate the word with. I see it more in a "we made this mess, we need to deal with it" kind of mindset.
Also Serenwilde suffered from the pox that was having Lehkiscendant. I don't know how many times Akyaevin and I would help secure Serenwilde a Domoth, only to have Lehki ALWAYS upgrade on prime peak time for Equinox, and even then when we would help defend the claim, he'd never have any essence so every time he died it took him 10+ minutes to reform, which usually always resorted in Serenwilde losing the Domoth.
I havent read much further than this, but this made me laugh so hard I peed a little.
The problem with Glomdoring trying to cozy up to Celest and Hallifax is that Serenwilde is trying to do that, too, but they (the two communes) don't want to cozy up with each other. It won't work well. One of you has to go, or else be stuck in diplomatic limbo (as is already happening).
You're certainly free to support an alliance with Celest and Hallifax, @Kethaera, but you have to take this into account, that not only do you have to choose to be with Celest and Hallifax, you also have to make them choose you over Serenwilde.
This is sounding more and more like relationship advice. What in the world.
Frankly I'm surprised Serenwilde isn't angrier about it. Our ALLIES are protecting and assisting their enemies. And we're letting them do it. Serenwilde is the current basin doormat. I'd be thrilled to see some old fierceness rise up and demand things change or we'll go elsewhere....but then apparently the commune is torn anyway. Some want to be friends with Glom. Some are happy as it is. Some want to break off with our allies and pursue Mag/Gaudi. In the mean time we do nothing and get left behind. What the hell politics. You're drunk. Go home.
Not only are they helping their enemies, they have also been doing it at their expense. I'm in awe at how Serenwilde constantly lets itself be screwed over and disrespected.
Actually, considering Glomdoring's history with alliances, it's often the backstabee than the backstabber.
In the days of Celenwilde, it was Serenwilde (by leading in the binding of Raziela; Glomdoring just sort of tagged along really) and Celest (by wanting to removing the binding, through working with Magnagora) who got the ball rolling in the dissolution of those matchups.
Afterwards, Cities vs. Communes, Serenwilde 'betrayed' Glomdoring and sought peaceful terms with Celest, thereby allowing the Xion Initiative to activate and Nifilhema to bind Maeve.
Then, during the days of Trinity (Celeglomfax), Hallifax jumped ship and swapped with Gaudiguch, leading to Equinox (Celeglomguch). Celest then dissolved the alliance (Xena wrote a public post about it somewhere).
Finally, during the latest incarnation of North vs South, wasn't it @Marcella 's premature aggression that made Glomdoring exit the coalition? I bet I can still find the quote somewhere, along with the "with the full backing of the Iron Council" remark.
P.S. I'm not saying I'm too happy with Glomdoring; their defection was definitely a blow so now we have Gaudiguch and Magnagora against the North. I'm just saying that unequivocally stating that Glom = backstab might not be too accurate.
P.P.S. Although I supposed @Arcanis didn't really state that Glomdoring was a backstabber, just that Glomdoring is usually involved in a backstabbing incident. Ah well!
This is a great share. Now if we could only agree on which population we actually need more of! (It's achievers - no brainer. They would be the sweet morsels to tempt back more of a killer population while drawing the fire off our sensitive socializers.)
Comments
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
And I don't agree with your solution. But if it really is a problem that needs to fixed with this solution, there were still better ways to address it.
Yeah. Because I play this game too, and kind of a lot, and thus, I get a say- by words or actions- in how politics play out. Deal with it. As it is, I participate in raids, revolts, flares, domoths, wildnodes, and pretty much anything else that comes along that doesn't have ridiculous alliance strings attached, and your characterization of me as being opposed to the pkers is absurd, in that light. What the hell am I if I show up to a fight?
Lusternia: Apocalypse, Now? The horror, the horror.
Granted, founder status was really only given to members of Elostian's order, but that's another point entirely.
I must say myself, I have had my issues OOCly with Glom/Celest since the beginning, because I find it utterly hard to even make myself believe that Celest would want to have anything for glom other then "purge the taint". However, that's an ooc view based on the pieces of the history I got to read.
Still, sometimes alliances do form based on needs or common goals. The current 4vs2 thing is, in my opinion, not going to last. It's a temporary fluke that's already shattering and will eventually tear apart. And I certainly do hope that Celest's coming out on Seren's side, not Glomdorings, but cause it makes more sense in my book.
Part of me would always want to ally with all of them because each org has really lovely people that are fun to hang out with, but it would be entirely boring if we all were on the same page ICly :x
That being said, tides swap and things change often am sure they do here as well.
I havent read much further than this, but this made me laugh so hard I peed a little.
Glom is always iffy, because Glom is Glom and cares for only Glom and is crazy and will always inevitably end in a backstab.
It's true that Celest-Glom makes as little sense theme-wise as Mag-Seren, but meh it works.
This is a great share. Now if we could only agree on which population we actually need more of! (It's achievers - no brainer. They would be the sweet morsels to tempt back more of a killer population while drawing the fire off our sensitive socializers.)
Vive l'apostrophe!
Would join Hallifax for this. Hell, would even join Celest.