There's something very strange happening with buffs, specifically in this case excorable.
While damage has gone down at a base, it seems buffs in general are not being calculated. I myself have a 2/8 excroable buff and do roughly 1000-1100 damage with my 100% excroable attack, another geochemantic user who has a 10+ excroable buff, was barely doing 1200 damage. There must be a mistake here somewhere...
You need your total Exco buff (exco plus universal) to really compare
Also, at 1000 base damage, a 13 exco buff would mean you're doing 1390 damage (minus resist) so doing 100-200 more damage isn't really that unfeasible
My total, with universal, is 2/8, and I am doing 1100 damage. I dont know how you can think that from just 2/8 to 13/13, an addition of 200 damage is considered feasible.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Damage formulas aren't public knowledge, yo. We don't all share the same one.
Ok, first off, your total is 2, the second number doesn't even matter when it comes to totals
If you're doing 100% excoro with a 2 buff, you're buffing your damage by 6%, 13 would buff it by 39%
At 1000 base damage, that's a difference of 330 damage. Factor in that damage is based off max health and other unknown variablesand where these unknown factors get applied, having a difference of 200some damage seems pretty feasible.
You simply have to understand that due to the way they work, it's not a straight application.
Ok, first off, your total is 2, the second number doesn't even matter when it comes to totals
If you're doing 100% excoro with a 2 buff, you're buffing your damage by 6%, 13 would buff it by 39%
At 1000 base damage, that's a difference of 330 damage. Factor in that damage is based off max health and other unknown variablesand where these unknown factors get applied, having a difference of 200some damage seems pretty feasible.
You simply have to understand that due to the way they work, it's not a straight application.
So I definitely will not bother to try and invest in the /13 buff artifact then, if all I will get is roughly around 200 extra damage on my annihilate.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
edited June 2015
Less. The difference between 10/10 and 13/13 is pretty small. But that was the point. Now the people who complain about min maxers are out of excuses!
Give them time, I am sure new reasons are hatching as we speak.
I do think the damage buffs are not worth it for most people, but they WILL help offset peoples resistances... and anytime you survive with 60 health, think "I would be dead if they runed".
Regardless, I'm who Arcanis is comparing damage to. The sad part is now I do as much damage with a runed up almost-max-damage axe as I do with annihilate, but over a full second faster and with more kill options.
Regardless, I'm who Arcanis is comparing damage to. The sad part is now I do as much damage with a runed up almost-max-damage axe as I do with annihilate, but over a full second faster and with more kill options.
Is that with etchings (on both)?
If so that's a problem yeah, especially as axe will be doing wounding.
Damage was basically the only reason (and use) for being Geochem, as bombs/reactives for -all- chems are just badly coded in (using up current fumes for a roughly 1000 damage plus 1 or 2 affs? So not worth it). If chems no longer have damage, then there is absolutely no reason for me to be geochem anymore, with the alternative being geomancy, but frankly I find the entire ordeal and mechanic of melds and demesnes to be irksome, bothersome, and downright boring.
Damage was basically the only reason (and use) for being Geochem, as bombs/reactives for -all- chems are just badly coded in (using up current fumes for a roughly 1000 damage plus 1 or 2 affs? So not worth it). If chems no longer have damage, then there is absolutely no reason for me to be geochem anymore, with the alternative being geomancy, but frankly I find the entire ordeal and mechanic of melds and demesnes to be irksome, bothersome, and downright boring.
Talk to your envoy then, there's a big difference between your big 10p only doing 1k damage and your straight 100% excoro attack doing 1000 damage.
I keep thinking you are smarter than this @Arcanis, but you continually prove me wrong.
Damage was basically the only reason (and use) for being Geochem, as bombs/reactives for -all- chems are just badly coded in (using up current fumes for a roughly 1000 damage plus 1 or 2 affs? So not worth it). If chems no longer have damage, then there is absolutely no reason for me to be geochem anymore, with the alternative being geomancy, but frankly I find the entire ordeal and mechanic of melds and demesnes to be irksome, bothersome, and downright boring.
You could like...envoy it or something. I think there's like this process that allows for you like change stuff and things.
All of the bomb skills used to do more damage, but were specifically and deliberately toned down by admins during the special report cycles. It's not a new thing that came up because of the overhaul's stat changes, it was a huge problem with unexpected buff stacking back in the day with aerochem bombs (that didn't crop up before them for a fe reasons), that stacking was fixed and the base damage across the board was gutted. The damage might be slightly lower now, but it wasn't appreciable before, unless you went to extreme lengths and no one bothered to put in the slightest effort to stop you.
The 1k damage +1/2 affs isn't the 10p bombs he's talking about, but all of the useless 5p ones. They take 5p, eat up 2-3 of the ticking passives, then do from 1-3 affs of varying strength and a single staffcast worth of damage to all enemies in range after 10 seconds, blocked by shielding, blinding, list changing effects (lust, paranoia), or just moving out the second they would hit. Basically: just buffing them up isn't a good solution, they're still an awful, bad mechanic.
Damage was basically the only reason (and use) for being Geochem, as bombs/reactives for -all- chems are just badly coded in (using up current fumes for a roughly 1000 damage plus 1 or 2 affs? So not worth it). If chems no longer have damage, then there is absolutely no reason for me to be geochem anymore, with the alternative being geomancy, but frankly I find the entire ordeal and mechanic of melds and demesnes to be irksome, bothersome, and downright boring.
Talk to your envoy then, there's a big difference between your big 10p only doing 1k damage and your straight 100% excoro attack doing 1000 damage.
I keep thinking you are smarter than this Arcanis, but you continually prove me wrong.
I meant all bombs in general. You'll notice that -chemists rarely will use their reactives. Yes I am trying to make reactives more usable, but as envoys were told, all changes should mostly focus on the overhaul and any abilities affected by it, so we'll have to wait I suppose.
As Enyalida said, they just need a change all over. No one is going to give up 2 or more of their fumes/fields/reagents/etc. which afflict your target every 10 seconds, just to do a small boom and maybe 1 or 2 affs. That, plus having to reput the fumes up after, just doesnt make it worth it.
I have indeed suggested ideas and even posted them for Geos, but like I said, I dont see it happening any time soon.
Those aren't the reactives, they're the bombs. But yes, you're penalized six ways to sunday for using them: They eat up your passive affs, which in turn weakens your passive rubble effect, they eat up 5p, make you a huge target, and don't really... do much. Some of the affs can be good, but there is no way to reasonably capitalize on them, certainly not on an entire group.
Those aren't the reactives, they're the bombs. But yes, you're penalized six ways to sunday for using them: They eat up your passive affs, which in turn weakens your passive rubble effect, they eat up 5p, make you a huge target, and don't really... do much. Some of the affs can be good, but there is no way to reasonably capitalize on them, certainly not on an entire group.
Yep, unless you have some 4 -chemists and someone with barrier up and all 4 time a bomb at the same time...I dont see them really causing much turmoil
That's actually why they are the way they are: People can theoretically time them together and wipe out entire groups. They often did, before things were changed to nerf them down and make them more predictable. There was a big spate of sudden death gank groups that would set off bombs to a clan tell and then move into your room, slamming you with damage you had no reason to expect. Now, it's much harder to do that without very ample warning to victims involved, who then have a variety of ways to negate the issue. Those problems have been solved, but just raising the damage could easily bring them back without providing a more tactical or reasonable use for the skills.
That's actually why they are the way they are: People can theoretically time them together and wipe out entire groups. They often did, before things were changed to nerf them down and make them more predictable. There was a big spate of sudden death gank groups that would set off bombs to a clan tell and then move into your room, slamming you with damage you had no reason to expect. Now, it's much harder to do that without very ample warning to victims involved, who then have a variety of ways to negate the issue. Those problems have been solved, but just raising the damage could easily bring them back without providing a more tactical or reasonable use for the skills.
hmm, I dont see why it couldnt simply have been coded in that only 1 bomb (of a skillset) could be setup in a room, or simply multiple bombs will cause reduced damage. We are getting slightly off-topic but I do hope -chemists are revisted. Heck I would have preferred if melds altogether were replaced with chemists. Lord do I hate the mechanic of melds..
The lich regen (listed under str section) needs an update. Before, it was a stat change of +2 night/-1 day because nighttime is only 40% of the time. +1/-1 regen as it is currently listed would mean that being a lich is a net NEGATIVE, which obviously makes no sense. (It doesn't seem to be active/working yet presently)
What is going to happen to the endowment demi powers?
We can always revisit the woodchems and their setup, imo.
I've only read page 1 of this thread, however, I would like to express my support for the removal of balance/eq bonuses. It makes for a more straightforward combat system. We can revisit the other skills from there.
Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
Regarding VileBlood's 1/3 ego buff, that only applies to Viscanti mind you.
You get VileBlood after getting BardicPresence 2/4 ego buff and emoting 5/10 ego buff. Also, there are a two other 1/4 ego buffs from other skill sets (magnetism & histrionics).
I know it's a niche boost but having it very nearly eclipsed by required precursors is pretty meh.
Unless you already have both Virtuoso Influence and Virtuoso Dramatics (or just one at Virt and Netzach in Highmagic), you get the full bonus from Vileblood. If you have both skills already at Virt, then Vileblood does nothing for you. At high lesson investment, Vileblood does nothing. At low lesson investment, it makes Viscanti Cacophone more attractive.
Are either of those outcomes actually problematic?
How fast does illithoid enhanced ego begin to drop (bodyscan-wise)? Also is Illithoid Demi+ perk that noticeable? Currently they get a 5/10 ego boost and then later 10/10, though I can already field about 8/10 as a non-bard, so im wondering if the other perk is at all worth it (and if it is long lasting since they need to be full on illdrain).
Lasted long enough for me to out ego and out debate Sondayga (spiritsinger) twice two revolts ago. I want to say you get the full hour, then the buff just drops off. Will verify when I get home.
Comments
While damage has gone down at a base, it seems buffs in general are not being calculated. I myself have a 2/8 excroable buff and do roughly 1000-1100 damage with my 100% excroable attack, another geochemantic user who has a 10+ excroable buff, was barely doing 1200 damage. There must be a mistake here somewhere...
My total, with universal, is 2/8, and I am doing 1100 damage. I dont know how you can think that from just 2/8 to 13/13, an addition of 200 damage is considered feasible.
So I definitely will not bother to try and invest in the /13 buff artifact then, if all I will get is roughly around 200 extra damage on my annihilate.
I meant all bombs in general. You'll notice that -chemists rarely will use their reactives. Yes I am trying to make reactives more usable, but as envoys were told, all changes should mostly focus on the overhaul and any abilities affected by it, so we'll have to wait I suppose.
As Enyalida said, they just need a change all over. No one is going to give up 2 or more of their fumes/fields/reagents/etc. which afflict your target every 10 seconds, just to do a small boom and maybe 1 or 2 affs. That, plus having to reput the fumes up after, just doesnt make it worth it.
I have indeed suggested ideas and even posted them for Geos, but like I said, I dont see it happening any time soon.
Yep, unless you have some 4 -chemists and someone with barrier up and all 4 time a bomb at the same time...I dont see them really causing much turmoil
hmm, I dont see why it couldnt simply have been coded in that only 1 bomb (of a skillset) could be setup in a room, or simply multiple bombs will cause reduced damage. We are getting slightly off-topic but I do hope -chemists are revisted. Heck I would have preferred if melds altogether were replaced with chemists. Lord do I hate the mechanic of melds..
What is going to happen to the endowment demi powers?
I've only read page 1 of this thread, however, I would like to express my support for the removal of balance/eq bonuses. It makes for a more straightforward combat system. We can revisit the other skills from there.
2/4 2; Bardic Presence
5/10 7; Emoting
Total: 7
With Vileblood:
1/3 1; Vileblood
2/4 3; Bardic Presence
5/10 8; Emoting
Total: 8
Without Vileblood + Omnitrans:
1/4: 1; Magnetism
1/4: 2; Histrionics
2/4: 4; Bardicpresence
5/10: 9; Emoting
Total: 9
With Vileblood + Omnitrans:
1/3: 1; Vileblood
1/4: 2; Magnetism
1/4: 3; Histrionics
2/4: 4; Bardicpresence (50% effect)
5/10: 9; Emoting
Total: 9
Unless you already have both Virtuoso Influence and Virtuoso Dramatics (or just one at Virt and Netzach in Highmagic), you get the full bonus from Vileblood. If you have both skills already at Virt, then Vileblood does nothing for you. At high lesson investment, Vileblood does nothing. At low lesson investment, it makes Viscanti Cacophone more attractive.
Are either of those outcomes actually problematic?