Balance speed should not be something we give lightly. Guardians were the only guild really designed to have tactics that required quickening. This includes setups for soulless, damage, and mana kills.
I would rather not see any balance or eq bonus's unless they are negligible (like 1% faster) or are special case timer effects like quickening.
With the new system, warriors will not need faster attack speeds. Attrition is, by design, inherently going to win if you don't stop it, we do not need to speed this up.
If I got the karma blessings I'd be at 10/10 without surge or the mana loss. Maybe even 11/10
What I thought was wierd was that I was at 12/10 with only surge, workout, weathering and veteran.
Were you not one of the folks earlier arguing against TFs having effect because you felt they were difficult to gain? Either the 10/10 system allows for people to generally get to the caps of those areas favoured by their class or people have to grind things like quests and TFs. What's your mana and ego at? I for one am not surprised that warriors are capping out health.
I'm sure envoys will get tweaks in to address duplicates, but many guilds are going to wind up with overages. You hit 10/10 'easily' because surge goes to 10 when most guild skills do not.
Malarious' suggestion is good and let's you minimize the huge drawback of surge very easily.
Why are loboshigaru known for "strong regeneration" in their scrolls, but don't actually get this until demi? I mean, aslaran get increased regen in Outdoors at level 1.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
I have no stated opinion about TF. So no, I didn't say anything about it before. I can't remember off the top of my head but I believe my mana was at -3/-10 and my ego was at 8/10
There is a difference between getting to the cap easier than others, and your guild skills alone getting you above the cap.
You have a 1/2, and then a 1/4, 1/4, 2/4 buff. These four buffs together will give you 5 levels, but they only provide a cap of 4. That means the extra 1 is dropped, leaving you with a level 4 buff for ego.
You have a 1/2, and then a 1/4, 1/4, 2/4 buff. These four buffs together will give you 5 levels, but they only provide a cap of 4. That means the extra 1 is dropped, leaving you with a level 4 buff for ego.
Then the 2/8 is added, to bring it up to 6.
That makes no sense. The help file says it will add the bonuses in the most beneficial way. That means I would start with 2/8, then add 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/4 + 2/4 to bring that up to 7.
Except that's not the way buffs work. The second number is the highest that buff can lift your total to. It doesn't lift some theoretical character-associated cap. Therefore, none of the X/4 buffs can lift your total above 4, so they're all applied at the same step and before the X/8 - and one of them is hitting that cap.
Otherwise, if you applied in the order you suggest, you'd end up with 2 + 0 (because that buff can't lift you above 2) + 1 + 1 + 0 (because that buff can't lift you above 4).
That's correct. If there's an error, it lies in the values assigned to the different buffs. However there are buffs that are not listed in your chart: psionics gives +3/8, for example.
Emoting in music gives 5/10. There are other ego buffs, yes. But just like days of old, some CLASSES (not just certain races in classes/guilds) will be more inclined to certain things than others. Like bards it seems will naturally have a bigger ego pool, and thus theoretically have an edge in influencing and debating, but not so much that anyone else can't even compete or compare. This is a good thing.
Emoting in music gives 5/10. There are other ego buffs, yes. But just like days of old, some CLASSES (not just certain races in classes/guilds) will be more inclined to certain things than others. Like bards it seems will naturally have a bigger ego pool, and thus theoretically have an edge in influencing and debating, but not so much that anyone else can't even compete or compare. This is a good thing.
There is a world of difference between being more inclined to something, and something being impossible even with the purchase of artifacts. Its not clear that is the case from the help file. One would assume that if I purchase an artifact which gives me a cap of 13, then its possible to reach that cap, even if it takes more work.
The problem here is a difference in perspective. Technically, buying the artifact gives you 3 more levels higher than any one of your same class that doesn't have the artifact. It doesn't allow a mage to have as much health as a warrior, unless the general and class abilities of said mage gives that capability.
The artifact will give the same benefit to you whatever your class is, but your class is still differentiated by the abilities it has access to, and the artifact won't change that.
The /13 can end up causing misunderstandings because of our use of the word "cap", and the different semantic meanings attached to it. That value is a "cap", but it's a cap on the impact of the ability (or artifact, in this case), and not a cap on your character's potential. Your character's potential is "capped" by the class you chose (because there are different abilities associated with each class).
Artifacts have 13 as a cap so that they have basically no limit (or "cap") on their impact: even if you're maxed out at 10/10, buying an arti will still give you a benefit, is all.
Well, the cap for each archetype is not exactly confirmed yet, with skills still being envoyed and changed, and new ones added, and possibly tweaked. It might even be theoretically possible, if there are enough general skills or quest buffs out there, to get everyone to max anyway, though I'm not knowledgeable enough about all the quest rewards out there to say for certain.
But eventually, we'll know. Adding it to the helpfile then might well be a very good idea.
Well, the cap for each archetype is not exactly confirmed yet, with skills still being envoyed and changed, and new ones added, and possibly tweaked. It might even be theoretically possible, if there are enough general skills or quest buffs out there, to get everyone to max anyway, though I'm not knowledgeable enough about all the quest rewards out there to say for certain.
But eventually, we'll know. Adding it to the helpfile then might well be a very good idea.
If the cap is by design, then they should tell us what the design is, so we don't suggest altering skills which make it possible to go beyond that cap. If its not by design, then we should point out where caps exist because the numbers aren't correct.
Should note there are some bonuses that aren't listed here because they weren't skill or specific blessing related, and were already covered. This involves most generic H/M/E blessings, a few that have higher /numerical cap values.
I want to go out on a limb and say maintaining 13/13/13 is impossible. Looking at the mathwork I did, the closest I could manage was 11/13/13 or 13/11/13 being locked into Illithoid Demi+. This is the intended result, you can do very well in various vitals fields, but warriors will have the most health, bards the most ego, mages and guardians the most mana and monks will have the healthiest spread across the board to reach high levels, though not necessarily capping out.
I don't get the point of that question, warriors should come out with the most health, mages/druids and guardians/wiccans with the most mana, bards with the most ego and monks with a healthy mix of all three.
You can't look at a certain subset in a bubble and remove others, that's not how it's designed and balanced.
So besides the fact that each archetype can get a 13 in the stat they are supposed to be best at, there is no intention of the other stats maxing out at 6 or 9 or 11 or some other number? The only stat the system cares about is the top one?
So long as each class is able to max out its preferred vital type* and that we haven't created any 13/13 across the board scenarios, then that's the focus.
Having people only reach /7 or /8 (before artifacts) in non primary vitals is a side effect of that focus, there's a certain consistency across the board that limits /10's to a very small number of sources.
Really liking that monks get a sort of balance between vitals. Even though it means we have less health than warriors, less ego than bards, less mana than casters, it feels right for a monk, somehow.
So long as each class is able to max out its preferred vital type* and that we haven't created any 13/13 across the board scenarios, then that's the focus.
Having people only reach /7 or /8 (before artifacts) in non primary vitals is a side effect of that focus, there's a certain consistency across the board that limits /10's to a very small number of sources.
*Monks need not apply.
With the listed buffs, the max ego that a Warrior who isn't an ascendant can reach is 6/8 without artifacts and 9/13 with. Is that a feature or a bug?
So long as each class is able to max out its preferred vital type* and that we haven't created any 13/13 across the board scenarios, then that's the focus.
Having people only reach /7 or /8 (before artifacts) in non primary vitals is a side effect of that focus, there's a certain consistency across the board that limits /10's to a very small number of sources.
*Monks need not apply.
With the listed buffs, the max ego that a Warrior who isn't an ascendant can reach is 6/8 without artifacts and 9/13 with. Is that a feature or a bug?
And I'm not certain what gets the mana buffs.
That would be a feature. It is exactly like damage resistance, in which certain guilds can get to the cap and others can't really. It's a benefit to being that class. The artifact raises your current value (no matter what it is) by 1-3 levels, depending on the level of the artifact. Always. No matter what, it will always give its effect.
That is what you are paying for the artifact for, to raise your total by 3 levels. You can essentially ignore the cap on the artifact if you want, because it's actually irrelevant in practice, it's just necessary mechanically. Just consider it to be a +1, +2, or +3 artifact. That might help!
Neither. You're not looking at all the available bonuses to players, what is listed above were specific skills that were converted to the new system, and individual blessings from karma and domoths that weren't previously added.
This isn't the full list of vitals boosts available to players, with or without artifacts.
Its hard for me to tell, if Surge for example is supposed to be a 3/8 health buff, which then allows a warrior to get max health benefits without any other sources outside their own skillset, (Because 5/10 is by default wasted with the other built in health buffs that can be gained from skills) or if extra sources are supposed to get the warrior to 10, in which case Surge has to do something else entirely.
Another example, Penumbra is 2/4 and the benefits from skills are each 1/4, which means unless you happen to find a bonus which is greater than x/4 those benefits will be wasted, even if you have something like the throne which gets you a 2/8. (Alternatively, the Karma blessing is easier to maintain than penumbra and so penumbra feels wasted) Such that with available skillsets, a non bard/monk is stuck at 6/8. Is the search for x/5 - x/7 bonuses intended to be a mystery, inspired by the common throne item? Or would this be reason to suggest that the numbers should change for skills such as Penumbra or Karma blessings?
Is each person supposed to not know what their available personal maximums are without doing their own exploration?
Before, my misunderstanding was that once I know the cap of my abilities, I also knew what my personal maximum potential was, but thats clearly not the case with the more precise explanation of what those caps mean.
Penumbra will probably end up being envoyed to have a higher cap, since a /4 cap for a guild skill is pretty low.
Surge is (mostly) useless right now, it will probably also end up getting envoyed. Right now, surge & athletics will get you to 10/10 together, rendering every other skill useless. But if you have even a handful of common skills, then surge just isn't necessary. By the time you're not a newbie and have learned Surge, you don't need it any more.
Karma blessings probably are fine the way they are since they're common skills.
Comments
I'm sure envoys will get tweaks in to address duplicates, but many guilds are going to wind up with overages. You hit 10/10 'easily' because surge goes to 10 when most guild skills do not.
Malarious' suggestion is good and let's you minimize the huge drawback of surge very easily.
There is a difference between getting to the cap easier than others, and your guild skills alone getting you above the cap.
Ego Minor ego blessing 1 2
09:51:43.314 Ego Histrionics 1 4
09:51:43.314 Ego Magnetism 1 4
09:51:43.314 Ego Karma beauty blessing 2 4
09:51:43.314 Ego Enthroned 2 8
09:51:43.314 Total 6
09:51:43.314
09:51:43.314 *******************************************************************************
CHR
Charisma AstroSphere: 3/3 Ego Buff to 3/3 Ego Malus
Moonchilde and Construct: 1/3 Ego Buff
Transmigrate (spider/fox): 1/5 Ego Buff
Throne: 2/8 Ego Buff
Netzach: 1/2 Ego Buff
Populus: 1/2 Ego Buff
Hero Fete: 1/2 Ego Buff
Penumbra 2/4 Ego Buff
Bardic Presence: 2/4 Ego Buff
Ascendant Presence: 1/5 Ego Buff
Beauty Domoth: 1/2 Ego Buff
Vileblood: 1/3 Ego Buff
Beauty Karmic Blessing: 2/4 Ego Buff
I want to go out on a limb and say maintaining 13/13/13 is impossible. Looking at the mathwork I did, the closest I could manage was 11/13/13 or 13/11/13 being locked into Illithoid Demi+. This is the intended result, you can do very well in various vitals fields, but warriors will have the most health, bards the most ego, mages and guardians the most mana and monks will have the healthiest spread across the board to reach high levels, though not necessarily capping out.
You can't look at a certain subset in a bubble and remove others, that's not how it's designed and balanced.
Having people only reach /7 or /8 (before artifacts) in non primary vitals is a side effect of that focus, there's a certain consistency across the board that limits /10's to a very small number of sources.
*Monks need not apply.
That is what you are paying for the artifact for, to raise your total by 3 levels. You can essentially ignore the cap on the artifact if you want, because it's actually irrelevant in practice, it's just necessary mechanically. Just consider it to be a +1, +2, or +3 artifact. That might help!
This isn't the full list of vitals boosts available to players, with or without artifacts.
Surge is (mostly) useless right now, it will probably also end up getting envoyed. Right now, surge & athletics will get you to 10/10 together, rendering every other skill useless. But if you have even a handful of common skills, then surge just isn't necessary. By the time you're not a newbie and have learned Surge, you don't need it any more.
Karma blessings probably are fine the way they are since they're common skills.