Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
edited June 2015
The only problem with this is that monster ego and monster mana aren't all that valuable after a certain point, which has always been the case. Monster health is always valuable. Warriors always had this niche, but paid for it with surge. Now they have this niche with no penalty. Acro monks are also getting base 4/8 health when they were never really outliers before now have beefed up health because they are a "physical class."
I don't really get why this happened. I understand the theme, but the implications of giving warriors the health niche they previously had without the mana penalty just means it sucks for everyone else. Giving bards 10800 ego is really only helpful in hyper niche situations that involving debating. You don't even need that much to influence, but I guess it'll save you some gold in the long run. 10800 health is helpful in all pk situations and bashing situations. I'm totally on board with how certain classes reach certain maxes if there was a purpose for max ego and mana.
That being said, I will admit that the larger goal of making damage less impactful seems to be successful thus far as is slimming down the gulf between the floor and ceiling. So that's great news.
It's not intended to be a mystery, it's simply a case of giving players too much information leads to a hand holding environment. Going through the list, you are able to reach 8/10 in your non primary vitals and 10/10 in your primary vital without the new H/M/E artifacts (or being Illithoid in the scenario where ego is involved)
I'm not here to tell you how to achieve that, that's not what my role is, I'm not a guide. It's something for you to explore and work out yourself. Hitting 10/10, 8/10 and 8/10 isn't something that players should be able to reach without effort, and part of that includes exploring, finding the various blessings available and working out how best to combine them.
Which is how the game has always operated, the difference is now those who figure it out won't lead to such huge gulfs in vitals between themselves and the rest of the playerbase.
It's not intended to be a mystery, it's simply a case of giving players too much information leads to a hand holding environment. Going through the list, you are able to reach 8/10 in your non primary vitals and 10/10 in your primary vital without the new H/M/E artifacts (or being Illithoid in the scenario where ego is involved)
I'm not here to tell you how to achieve that, that's not what my role is, I'm not a guide. It's something for you to explore and work out yourself. Hitting 10/10, 8/10 and 8/10 isn't something that players should be able to reach without effort, and part of that includes exploring, finding the various blessings available and working out how best to combine them.
Which is how the game has always operated, the difference is now those who figure it out won't lead to such huge gulfs in vitals between themselves and the rest of the playerbase.
And for Monks it should be 8/10, 8/10, 8/10 or more like 9/10, 9/10, 9/10?
For some reason, there seems to be the idea that we should be able to max out all our vitals. And if we can't, then something is wrong.
You're not supposed to be able to get everything maxed, and even getting stuff to 8/10 is supposed to be hard.
Not sure where you are getting that idea from. Before understanding how the numbers worked, I assumed that if I had a 1/8 skill, that meant I could expect to eventually reach a level 8 by stacking enough bonuses. But that isn't the case and therefore I was wondering what the expected max potentials actually are.
So If I'm understanding this correctly, with a 1/8 skill, I can't expect to get to an 8 without also having a x/7 skill. If it's a 2/8 skill then I can only reach an 8 if there is a x/6 skill available, and so on. Correct?
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
It should be documented on HELP KEPHERA. All the race help files were updated last night.
Oh cool. Thanks!
Also: Kephera pendant seems to only be mitigating MAGIC damage, as in minorsecond, but as far as my tests can tell, has not had any effect of poison, excoro, and fire.
There is no "expected" because it will vary based on class and guild skills. The absolute max is going to be whatever your highest "/?" cap is, but if you only have a 1/8 as your highest and everything else is */4, then your effective max will be 5/8.
I am not sure why you're so intent on demanding an answer for what the max will be, when there is no answer. It will be different for everyone.
It should be documented on HELP KEPHERA. All the race help files were updated last night.
Oh cool. Thanks!
Also: Kephera pendant seems to only be mitigating MAGIC damage, as in minorsecond, but as far as my tests can tell, has not had any effect of poison, excoro, and fire.
That's unintended, I'll double check with Roark but it should be all magical forms of damage, not just magic damage types.
There is no "expected" because it will vary based on class and guild skills. The absolute max is going to be whatever your highest "/?" cap is, but if you only have a 1/8 as your highest and everything else is */4, then your effective max will be 5/8.
I am not sure why you're so intent on demanding an answer for what the max will be, when there is no answer. It will be different for everyone.
Because if everybody in the game is able to get some max buff except for 1 race/guild combination, that needs to be fixed, and unless people know what is expected, its hard to know what to report as a bug or suggest to an envoy. Secondly, if I have a 1/8 skill, and everything else is x/4 then I now know to search or look for bonuses that have an x/7 otherwise I will never hit that 8 potential. Or if a certain skill is a 1/8 and there is no possible combination of skillsets that will make use of that 8, its also worth pointing out to an envoy etc.
No one is able to get 10/10 or 13/13 across the board.
If they can, we've done something wrong.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
The system is pretty transparent. Every buff will show you the max available and the base from which you can figure out bugs. I don't know why that needs further clarification. Baelor already stated it's not the purpose of the admin or help files to hold your hand. If you are at 7, then you aren't stacking everything you can, and the flaw is with your knowledge and not the system. It's always been that way, there have always been people who don't max out because they don't know how. The onus is on you to learn, not for the system to feed you everything.
There is no "expected" because it will vary based on class and guild skills. The absolute max is going to be whatever your highest "/?" cap is, but if you only have a 1/8 as your highest and everything else is */4, then your effective max will be 5/8.
I am not sure why you're so intent on demanding an answer for what the max will be, when there is no answer. It will be different for everyone.
Because if everybody in the game is able to get some max buff except for 1 race/guild combination, that needs to be fixed, and unless people know what is expected, its hard to know what to report as a bug or suggest to an envoy. Secondly, if I have a 1/8 skill, and everything else is x/4 then I now know to search or look for bonuses that have an x/7 otherwise I will never hit that 8 potential. Or if a certain skill is a 1/8 and there is no possible combination of skillsets that will make use of that 8, its also worth pointing out to an envoy etc.
Just because you have something that goes to /8, and nothing else that can actually get you up to that level, it does not necessarily mean that it needs to be pointed out to an envoy. Simply because you have a skill with that cap, it does not mean that you will be able to get to that value. The skills are not all done relationally like that. The same skill, in another guild's hands, might allow for it (many skills are shared, after all), so it is intended that that guild be able to get to a higher value than your own.
Also, if you have lots of /4 buffs, and a /8 buff, you don't need to go looking for a /7. A 1/5 will give you the exact same benefit as a 1/7 in that situation (one more level of vitals, at a higher cap than the other skills capped at).
I really don't know why you are arguing with me. You just repeated exactly what I said but using negative instead of positive language.
I don't read them as saying the same thing at all, actually. Your post is saying that you expect to be able to get to /8, and if you can't, that you need to talk to an envoy to resolve the situation, whereas my post is saying that you may very well not be able to get to /8 depending on guild skills, domoth blessings, and other things over which there may be little control.
Also, mine points out that you don't need to go hunting for a 1/7 in the situation you're speaking of, but a 1/5 will do just as well.
The system is pretty transparent. Every buff will show you the max available and the base from which you can figure out bugs. I don't know why that needs further clarification. Baelor already stated it's not the purpose of the admin or help files to hold your hand. If you are at 7, then you aren't stacking everything you can, and the flaw is with your knowledge and not the system. It's always been that way, there have always been people who don't max out because they don't know how. The onus is on you to learn, not for the system to feed you everything.
Once it was explained that the "cap" is not on the person's potential, but just on what that specific line item can produce, it became clear, before then it was not clear. Since I misunderstood that point, I was asking if I correctly understood the next derived piece of information. Instead of a simple yes, I got attacked. When I explained why I wanted to know, I got attacked again.
The problem is, that when you say its not for the system to feed you everything, the fact is that the system DOES feed you everything... if you understand the system correctly. I know exactly which bonuses I need to look for to get the most benefit with the least amount of effort, and I know which bonuses to ignore because in the long run they won't benefit me. The only thing I might not know, is what quest or activity gets me the bonus I need, and if the bonus I need actually exists in the game or not.
If I had understood the system correctly, my post might have been "Does anyone know if there is something which allows warriors to get a 2/6 ego bonus?" instead of asking if the game was adding up the numbers correctly.
I'm going to chime in echoing the comments that health, mana, and ego boosts are not equivalently useful. A 5/10 health buff is dramatically stronger than a 5/10 mana boost, which is stronger in turn than a 5/10 ego boost. Health comes up in every PvP and PvE struggle, all the time. Mana comes up in a decent chunk of them, as well as fueling clotting and abilities, but not PvE really. Ego comes up against telepaths and during debating.
I'm going to chime in echoing the comments that health, mana, and ego boosts are not equivalently useful. A 5/10 health buff is dramatically stronger than a 5/10 mana boost, which is stronger in turn than a 5/10 ego boost. Health comes up in every PvP and PvE struggle, all the time. Mana comes up in a decent chunk of them, as well as fueling clotting and abilities, but not PvE really. Ego comes up against telepaths and during debating.
I won't disagree, but aren't mana and ego (ego increasingly so) important with regards to the mana/ego instakills?
I'm going to chime in echoing the comments that health, mana, and ego boosts are not equivalently useful. A 5/10 health buff is dramatically stronger than a 5/10 mana boost, which is stronger in turn than a 5/10 ego boost. Health comes up in every PvP and PvE struggle, all the time. Mana comes up in a decent chunk of them, as well as fueling clotting and abilities, but not PvE really. Ego comes up against telepaths and during debating.
I won't disagree, but aren't mana and ego (ego increasingly so) important with regards to the mana/ego instakills?
There's TPs (That don't exist), Dreamweavers (Who have negligible ego drains) and Minstrels (To-be-added) as ego instakills.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
There's 5 or so manakills (wrack/absolve/toad/swoop/dysbaricpressure replacement)
It's also important to note that it's a lot lot easier to drain mana than it is ego. (and even easier to damage people)
The biggest difference between health and mana/ego damage is that mana/ego draining skills are usually some percentage + a base amout (like 10% + 100) where as health damage isn't along the same lines AND has things like buffs/resists raising or lowering the total. Mana/ego drains comparatively are not as affected by giant mana and ego pools due to this.
This means higher health pools have a greater effect than higher mana or ego pools do, regardless of any amount of mana or egokills that exist.
Harmony deathtouch isn't... really based on draining vitals, it's mostly a timer kill and is generally triggered off the health/mana pair, because those are the two that actually go down in combat.
Are there any mana kills that do not rely on aeon or inquisition?
Harmony deathtouch isn't... really based on draining vitals, it's mostly a timer kill and is generally triggered off the health/mana pair, because those are the two that actually go down in combat.
Are there any mana kills that do not rely on aeon or inquisition?
Well in groups spamming mana drains means aeon isn't required. SD toading arguably doesn't really on aeon. The finaltwist stun + big burst drain does a lot of work.
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I'm not here to tell you how to achieve that, that's not what my role is, I'm not a guide. It's something for you to explore and work out yourself. Hitting 10/10, 8/10 and 8/10 isn't something that players should be able to reach without effort, and part of that includes exploring, finding the various blessings available and working out how best to combine them.
Which is how the game has always operated, the difference is now those who figure it out won't lead to such huge gulfs in vitals between themselves and the rest of the playerbase.
You're not supposed to be able to get everything maxed, and even getting stuff to 8/10 is supposed to be hard.
I am not sure why you're so intent on demanding an answer for what the max will be, when there is no answer. It will be different for everyone.
If they can, we've done something wrong.
Also, if you have lots of /4 buffs, and a /8 buff, you don't need to go looking for a /7. A 1/5 will give you the exact same benefit as a 1/7 in that situation (one more level of vitals, at a higher cap than the other skills capped at).
Also, mine points out that you don't need to go hunting for a 1/7 in the situation you're speaking of, but a 1/5 will do just as well.
At least that's what I got from his post. :-/
The problem is, that when you say its not for the system to feed you everything, the fact is that the system DOES feed you everything... if you understand the system correctly. I know exactly which bonuses I need to look for to get the most benefit with the least amount of effort, and I know which bonuses to ignore because in the long run they won't benefit me. The only thing I might not know, is what quest or activity gets me the bonus I need, and if the bonus I need actually exists in the game or not.
If I had understood the system correctly, my post might have been "Does anyone know if there is something which allows warriors to get a 2/6 ego bonus?" instead of asking if the game was adding up the numbers correctly.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Are there any mana kills that do not rely on aeon or inquisition?