The system is pretty transparent. Every buff will show you the max available and the base from which you can figure out bugs. I don't know why that needs further clarification. Baelor already stated it's not the purpose of the admin or help files to hold your hand. If you are at 7, then you aren't stacking everything you can, and the flaw is with your knowledge and not the system. It's always been that way, there have always been people who don't max out because they don't know how. The onus is on you to learn, not for the system to feed you everything.
Once it was explained that the "cap" is not on the person's potential, but just on what that specific line item can produce, it became clear, before then it was not clear. Since I misunderstood that point, I was asking if I correctly understood the next derived piece of information. Instead of a simple yes, I got attacked. When I explained why I wanted to know, I got attacked again.
The problem is, that when you say its not for the system to feed you everything, the fact is that the system DOES feed you everything... if you understand the system correctly. I know exactly which bonuses I need to look for to get the most benefit with the least amount of effort, and I know which bonuses to ignore because in the long run they won't benefit me. The only thing I might not know, is what quest or activity gets me the bonus I need, and if the bonus I need actually exists in the game or not.
If I had understood the system correctly, my post might have been "Does anyone know if there is something which allows warriors to get a 2/6 ego bonus?" instead of asking if the game was adding up the numbers correctly.
I think you've been looking at it incorrectly.
Think of the 10/10 system more like this. Goal: Cap Outliers. Plan: Put a cap on each bonus. If the bonuses have caps, then technically you'd only ever really need to look at the skills/buffs which touch the cap. By each skill having a max you've made it impossible for some combination the designer hasn't thought of to put you over the cap.
Don't want mages to have 10/10 health (sans artifacts), never give them anything in our out of their class that can give 10 and you could call it game right there. You don't even actually have to overly worry about other buffs. But if you want to give the illusion (or depending on how you look at it 'give value to skills') then you create 'tiers' (common skills/abilities, quest buffs, guild abilities, archetype boosts, etc).
If you want to min/max you probably really only need a list of 8-10 buffs.
The only problem with this is that monster ego and monster mana aren't all that valuable after a certain point, which has always been the case. Monster health is always valuable. Warriors always had this niche, but paid for it with surge. Now they have this niche with no penalty. Acro monks are also getting base 4/8 health when they were never really outliers before now have beefed up health because they are a "physical class."
I don't really get why this happened. I understand the theme, but the implications of giving warriors the health niche they previously had without the mana penalty just means it sucks for everyone else. Giving bards 10800 ego is really only helpful in hyper niche situations that involving debating. You don't even need that much to influence, but I guess it'll save you some gold in the long run. 10800 health is helpful in all pk situations and bashing situations. I'm totally on board with how certain classes reach certain maxes if there was a purpose for max ego and mana.
That being said, I will admit that the larger goal of making damage less impactful seems to be successful thus far as is slimming down the gulf between the floor and ceiling. So that's great news.
You're of course right that h/m/e are not even attributes. I think it just all flows back to D&D. Knights/Warriors get more health seems to be stuck in people's head. I don't know why it is that way here, since they get extra mitigation, but it was clear months ago, Estarra wanted different h/m/e per archetype.
That's not what's being said. No one is arguing for archetypes to have the same h/m/e. What's being pointed out is that the warrior/physical gimmick (more hp) is better than anyone else's, especially as their hefty passive hp boost obviates the need for surge, something warriors have pointed out for different reasons. Dropping the Workout bonus from 5/10 to something like 3/10 might make surge relevant again, while still providing an equitable bonus to the 5/10 mana and ego boosts other archetypes get, due to the increased usefulness of health.
That's not what's being said. No one is arguing for archetypes to have the same h/m/e. What's being pointed out is that the warrior/physical gimmick (more hp) is better than anyone else's, especially as their hefty passive hp boost obviates the need for surge, something warriors have pointed out for different reasons. Dropping the Workout bonus from 5/10 to something like 3/10 might make surge relevant again, while still providing an equitable bonus to the 5/10 mana and ego boosts other archetypes get, due to the increased usefulness of health.
The earlier discussion of being able to get to 10 with just the karma life blessing was wrong. Without surge a warrior still needs to find a 1/5 health buff, such as the throne.
It should be documented on HELP KEPHERA. All the race help files were updated last night.
Oh cool. Thanks!
Also: Kephera pendant seems to only be mitigating MAGIC damage, as in minorsecond, but as far as my tests can tell, has not had any effect of poison, excoro, and fire.
That's unintended, I'll double check with Roark but it should be all magical forms of damage, not just magic damage types.
Can I request we example specific things? Right now there is a huge bias in kephera, because physical damage tends to be lower, and magic damage scales to max health. So you need it most against magic.
Would it be possible to look at the damage types objectively?
Harmony deathtouch isn't... really based on draining vitals, it's mostly a timer kill and is generally triggered off the health/mana pair, because those are the two that actually go down in combat.
Are there any mana kills that do not rely on aeon or inquisition?
Harmony deathtouch isn't... really based on draining vitals, it's mostly a timer kill and is generally triggered off the health/mana pair, because those are the two that actually go down in combat.
Are there any mana kills that do not rely on aeon or inquisition?
Swoop! (you can still doublesling haegl right?)
Pretty sure that was envoyed right after the aeromancer manakill. :P
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Regarding VileBlood's 1/3 ego buff, that only applies to Viscanti mind you.
You get VileBlood after getting BardicPresence 2/4 ego buff and emoting 5/10 ego buff. Also, there are a two other 1/4 ego buffs from other skill sets (magnetism & histrionics).
I know it's a niche boost but having it very nearly eclipsed by required precursors is pretty meh.
2
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
You can get 10/10 without vileblood, making vileblood a pointless skill. I'd envoy it. I dunno why it went from +3 cha to 1/3.
Probably useless, since bards can get to 10/10 ego relatively easily with just generals, so having guild-specific effects that boosts it doesn't do much good. Now, if it gave a 1/3 Health buff instead, that might be more useful. Or poison resist, though that would be less useful it might make more sense.
It looks like all of the described changes have been quietly put in. Bump for a BODYSCAN SPEED ability, and numbers on what the changes there are. I'm going to try and root out any of my own stat changes and post what the conversion was.
Bear Totem: +3 unweighted strength to 1/2 universal damage.
Moonchilde: +1 unweighted charisma to 1/3 ego pool.
Being that he's around level 80 and most likely doesn't have the combat/discipline skills that boost health... not surprising. Don't go being rude to people now just because they haven't bought buckets of credits.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Regarding VileBlood's 1/3 ego buff, that only applies to Viscanti mind you.
You get VileBlood after getting BardicPresence 2/4 ego buff and emoting 5/10 ego buff. Also, there are a two other 1/4 ego buffs from other skill sets (magnetism & histrionics).
I know it's a niche boost but having it very nearly eclipsed by required precursors is pretty meh.
The only reason VileBlood had that charisma boost is because Viscanti badly needed it. This is no longer the case. Since VileBlood is a low stanza song that already does passive curing, I'm kind of surprised that it retained this secondary effect at all. Chalk it up to superfluous flavor - I don't really think it's worth any complaints or attempts to buff.
"superfluous flavor" you've played this game before right? Also, "pretty meh" is hardly a fire and brimstone condemnation. The +3 weighted charisma that you had to be hearing and have the song playing to benefit from didn't fill any need that I know of. Unless you consider Irontongue Viscanti hitting the hard cap for their cha stat while they bash a need.
If we are going to get a token appeasement in the form of a minor flavor buff then it is mine and I will claw your eyes out if you try and take it from me!!!1!11!
Then there is the issue of charisma boosting skills in general being replaced with just extra ego when it used to boost damage, song length and the speed of influence attacks.
Then there is the issue of charisma boosting skills in general being replaced with just extra ego when it used to boost damage, song length and the speed of influence attacks.
With you on that.
I was probably responding more to Celina's "pointless skill" comment. I'm just saying it's not that big of a deal to be granted an extra "meh" effect when it's not supplanting the core effect nor replacing anything you actually need. (And Irontongue Viscanti did need charisma anywhere they could get it - allowing them to cap out without a TF wasn't as nice as a charisma boost would have been, but it certainly wasn't crap.) Please do not claw my eyes out. Those !1s look pointy and I am intimidated.
P.S. Is anyone planning to update the wiki, or are we just relying on Xiel's site at this point?
Random question, but does mana drain show up in the BODYSCAN REGENERATION as a malus? I can't tell if most of my skills that had a mana drain no longer do, or if my regeneration just masks it.
Should look at drains from things like metawake etc more along the lines of constantly casting a spell rather than a part of the regen mechanics. That's how it works in the code as explained by Roark
Comments
Think of the 10/10 system more like this. Goal: Cap Outliers. Plan: Put a cap on each bonus. If the bonuses have caps, then technically you'd only ever really need to look at the skills/buffs which touch the cap. By each skill having a max you've made it impossible for some combination the designer hasn't thought of to put you over the cap.
Don't want mages to have 10/10 health (sans artifacts), never give them anything in our out of their class that can give 10 and you could call it game right there. You don't even actually have to overly worry about other buffs. But if you want to give the illusion (or depending on how you look at it 'give value to skills') then you create 'tiers' (common skills/abilities, quest buffs, guild abilities, archetype boosts, etc).
If you want to min/max you probably really only need a list of 8-10 buffs.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
The only reason VileBlood had that charisma boost is because Viscanti badly needed it. This is no longer the case. Since VileBlood is a low stanza song that already does passive curing, I'm kind of surprised that it retained this secondary effect at all. Chalk it up to superfluous flavor - I don't really think it's worth any complaints or attempts to buff.
Vive l'apostrophe!
With you on that.
I was probably responding more to Celina's "pointless skill" comment. I'm just saying it's not that big of a deal to be granted an extra "meh" effect when it's not supplanting the core effect nor replacing anything you actually need. (And Irontongue Viscanti did need charisma anywhere they could get it - allowing them to cap out without a TF wasn't as nice as a charisma boost would have been, but it certainly wasn't crap.) Please do not claw my eyes out. Those !1s look pointy and I am intimidated.
P.S. Is anyone planning to update the wiki, or are we just relying on Xiel's site at this point?
Vive l'apostrophe!
EDIT: Maluses, like the Spire on undead, are applied after cap. Soo...wouldn't be good if mana drains were like maluses.