Well, at 20 charisma with Expert Dramatics and Transcendent Loralaria, with a bonded instrument, plus tempo and my throne, I only reach 248 song length. Beauty puts me over 250, barely, and then (other than transing Dramatics, too, which I think would put me at roughly 300?) the only ways to improve are getting Champion bracers or the song artefact. Normalising song length would be lovely, and I've been working on possible time solutions with other people already to submit via report.
At 22 cha (unspecced trill demigod) with max all the things, tempo, and artifact, my song length is 425 seconds. I feel like this should be the minimum up for consideration.
Wild Elfen, Shadowsingers, Warbling Trill, and unspecced faeling can all exceed 425 currently, while tae'dae, unspecced elfen, brewmeister dwarves, rapscallion dracnari, and seasinger merian can all match it. Irontongue viscanti is the only plausible bard race that comes in lower.
The potential solution discussed earlier is to treat everyone as if they have 22 cha (250s base). Then it can be modified to 300 with Tempo (as Elanorwen stated), and beyond with artifacts etc. That's the one that was discussed earlier amongst envoys. While there is more discussion to be had (they don't want to just slam this through, they want to make sure it's right), our initial goal is in line with Talan's suggested minimum.
Without further performance, the song will end in 288 seconds. <-- this is what I get with 21Cha (brewmeister dwarf) with tempo etc but no artifact, so I'm presuming 432 seconds with artifact.
Throughout this overhaul, the Envoys have been reporting abilities affected by the overhaul and balancing them to the new system, it's the reason the reports were reopened.
Furthermore after the recent incident, it's unlikely we'll adjust abilities without it going through the envoy system.
That's not fair. There's a difference between benign quality of life changes that everyone can come to a consensus on like song timers and controversial topics like shackles and I think you know that.
At 22 cha (unspecced trill demigod) with max all the things, tempo, and artifact, my song length is 425 seconds. I feel like this should be the minimum up for consideration.
Just to be clear, my minimum is still a nerf for a lot of people.
I'm confused, how is 425 a nerf to a lot of people, if it's you maxed out with the artifact and almost cap charisma (diminishing returns)? Again, I have no imaginary skin in this game, make it whatever. Making it ~250-300 base will probably get you up to your numbers once you have the artifact and tempo, right?
At 22 cha (unspecced trill demigod) with max all the things, tempo, and artifact, my song length is 425 seconds. I feel like this should be the minimum up for consideration.
Just to be clear, my minimum is still a nerf for a lot of people.
I'm confused, how is 425 a nerf to a lot of people, if it's you maxed out with the artifact and almost cap charisma (diminishing returns)? Again, I have no imaginary skin in this game, make it whatever. Making it ~250-300 base will probably get you up to your numbers once you have the artifact and tempo, right?
You're having a different conversation here. She's saying that it's a nerf to everyone who can get more than 22 charisma, that's all.
Lavinya: Your base with tempo would go up to 300 (as if you had 22 cha instead), then the artifact / champ arty / etc will bump it way up from there.
A lot of people will find they're nerfed in this overhaul, damage from scaling back strength and intellect has been lowered significantly, as has health, DMP and other effects. Bard songs aren't an exception to this.
It's not a case of buffing bard song duration back to where some people could push for high levels of charisma and get it to, it's a case of finding a song length that is viable and balanced.
I suggested base 300sec, with tempo, 350 secs, the song rune doing what it usually does (I thought it doubled, maybe it's only time and a half). There was mention that people wanted the champ artifact to matter, but I think it's better to make it consistent across the board and just remove that effect from the champ artifact (like damage boost was already removed). Rescue command and no karma killing should be bonus enough.
A lot of people will find they're nerfed in this overhaul, damage from scaling back strength and intellect has been lowered significantly, as has health, DMP and other effects. Bard songs aren't an exception to this.
It's not a case of buffing bard song duration back to where some people could push for high levels of charisma and get it to, it's a case of finding a song length that is viable and balanced.
I've noticed that my damage output has dropped with the recent buff overhaul, and Im wondering if damage-kills will be going the way of the dodo (except maybe for astrology).
Well I noticed that warrior damage went way up (after a very short stint of being halved). If I fully arty a damage-based weapon, I'll do roughly 1200 per hit every couple of second if I leave speed at 220. I just think people aren't getting the same damage buffs they were previously.
Well thing is, warriors shouldn't be doing much damage at all, even with damage weapons. That was nerfed ages ago because that was the route warriors with runes went since you could do 900+ per swing with a broadsword. Now with my axe I'm doing higher than was the norm pre-buff change.
So, I have made a vested effort to try to let things basically go on their merry. I haven't kept up on topic, but I browsed from 16 or so and on, ignoring long posts that didn't have a word I was looking for or something... here is my response to no one in particular.
* Damage is going down, a lot, and I mean a ton. This is good! Combat should be about skill, not spam raw skill X over and over. This is bad for guilds that rely on damage, and will require other avenues of attrition or insta's. This also encourages smarter thinking in many areas. Removing stats as players in damage is very good and means we can get skills to an acceptable level far more easily.
* Resistances also went down a lot. So you should assume damage is not far far higher than normal, many people didn't hit wiccan level resistances, so they might not notice that much.
*Outliers is a bit more complicated. At most a outlier has every arty, in which case they have 139% resistance to everything to your 130%. That is not a massive margin, especially if skills are not doing huge sums of damage on their own anymore. The goal should be that destro is stronger than staff slightly, but is not the go to combat method for people with skills (no one with destro is lacking in having skills, but destro is more efficient).
*Regeneration also fell down a dark hole, completely. Mercy used to be something like 8%, now 8% is what most people have as a max. This makes it easier to pull off damage when people can't super regen. For an example, a loboshigaru harmony monk with body chants could regen in the realm of 25-30% of their max health between harmony (7% or so a level regen outside of regen levels, plus racial, and then mercy appeared on its own tick it looked). If you found a 7000 health monk, they could regen 2000 every 10 seconds. Now, harmony is 3 levels, or 3%. This is good for trying to balance this stuff.
* Races..... some of the skills are poor. I am hoping we give some improvements to some
I can genuinely say I am excited about the removal of stats and many of the changes we have seen. They are big, they are scary, but they are mostly good. The pledge changes were terrible and shackles should be removed from Celestines, as that shakes me to my Nihilist core, but most things have been okay.
My only point of concern will be in the monk portion of the overhaul, as I have multiple reports on what will happen there. A direct conversion to the new affs won't work as the guilds are designed for an affliction system that I can explain guild by guild for those interested. Monk's could damage kill with the affs to do it, they could insta with hardlock affs, or insta with chestpain, but they didn't have behead. We are working on a proposed example of what a new monk skillset could look like using only the afflictions Shuyin created/listed in the warrior overhaul, and ways to work within this system.
Influencing I would like to see have lower gains than bashing. There is over 11 common buffs to bashing, items to increase xp gain by 200% (influence only), and most enemies don't hit back. They might start hitting back with the overhaul, but even then, no real risk as long as you don't try anything crazy.
Mob health should probably come down, but in some cases leave it higher and up the gold/essence values on mobs to reflect "higher end" bashing being harder. I can clear gorgogs or merians in under 10 minutes easily, same for shallach orcs (which are really easy), but gorgogs are noticably higher level, I just don't really feel they are much scarier unless they are in a group.
I wanted to thank admin for all the work, and tell everyone to relax if they are worried. Things are looking fine, and when I tell you things are looking up, you know the sun must be coming out.
I do hope influencing is not being reworked to have less gains than bashing. I could pile up a bunch of reasons, but mainly I think novices have a good choice at the moment. "Should I focus on my combat & bashing skills, it is a two for one package, or should I focus on the less multipurpose but faster influence skills?" I personally like choices. If bashing was faster (pre crit and damage artis) then the main reason for a novice to take influence first would be to cripple themselves for the sake of pacifist RP.
For Mister Zvoltz, Pejat has been terminated by the Replicant Dynodeon.
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Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
Wild Elfen, Shadowsingers, Warbling Trill, and unspecced faeling can all exceed 425 currently, while tae'dae, unspecced elfen, brewmeister dwarves, rapscallion dracnari, and seasinger merian can all match it. Irontongue viscanti is the only plausible bard race that comes in lower.
Vive l'apostrophe!
Vive l'apostrophe!
Lavinya: Your base with tempo would go up to 300 (as if you had 22 cha instead), then the artifact / champ arty / etc will bump it way up from there.
It's a nerf to anyone with over 22 max charisma, which is 3/6 bard specs and all unspecced faelings. That's most bards.
Vive l'apostrophe!
It's not a case of buffing bard song duration back to where some people could push for high levels of charisma and get it to, it's a case of finding a song length that is viable and balanced.
Vive l'apostrophe!
I've noticed that my damage output has dropped with the recent buff overhaul, and Im wondering if damage-kills will be going the way of the dodo (except maybe for astrology).