As a demigod, my max power weight is only 50. Why is the demi racial trait half of this?
Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
Nowhere that you can see. You weren't privvy to the discussion and explination because you are not an envoy.
The problem with lusternia communication in a nutshell. The idea that a select few somehow have the say upon what is 'best' for the rest of us, with apparently the intent that they would be doing what is best for their section. Feudalism at its best. I dont see Lusternia ever getting better if the select 'golden ones', being a handful of 6, seem to be the main feedback the administration care to listen to (and even then, sometimes only 1 having the largest say in a matter, such as in the celestine shackles debacle).
Until this idea of 'hidden behind-the-scenes' discussions with 'our select few' favoritism is removed, things arent likely to ever change.
As a demigod, my max power weight is only 50. Why is the demi racial trait half of this?
You've been given a number that is neither confirmed nor put through internal review, I suggest you discard it.
The envoys were given insight into the design process on the grounds that they weren't going to be putting unfinished, non-finalised details of various matters on the forums. That was my error, and it won't be happening again.
Nowhere that you can see. You weren't privvy to the discussion and explination because you are not an envoy.
The problem with lusternia communication in a nutshell. The idea that a select few somehow have the say upon what is 'best' for the rest of us, with apparently the intent that they would be doing what is best for their section. Feudalism at its best. I dont see Lusternia ever getting better if the select 'golden ones', being a handful of 6, seem to be the main feedback the administration care to listen to (and even then, sometimes only 1 having the largest say in a matter, such as in the celestine shackles debacle).
Until this idea of 'hidden behind-the-scenes' discussions with 'our select few' favoritism is removed, things arent likely to ever change.
Good gods. I don't know if you're just being obtuse or literally having a reading comprehension deficiency. The thread about the shackles thing has been reviewed by Estarra, and given a public forums post by her. The arguments there you brought up have been argued against, and without any meaningful responses from you. You're harping on the envoy system as some sort of "feudalism", while in the same breath you are pushing the view that YOUR view alone is the correct one, and is somehow more correct than other people's perspective. I have argued that the envoys actually DO talk to their guild members to get feedback, and you just plain, outright, ignore that argument as though I never said it, and come right back with your ridiculous accusations.
You paint the picture of the envoys somehow being some selfish hoarders of the admin's attention, and demand at the same time that your opinion be the only one they listen to.
So there are 28 envoys, not 6. There's a rep from every guild. Most of the big changes have been brought the forums, such as faelings getting divinus resistance on the spreadsheet you just read, and the tiered damage system, and pretty much everything overhaul related so that everyone can discuss. Some of the super minor details, such as the lore justification behind faelings getting divinus are not openly shared because that really isn't all that important. I mean, I get you're a bit of a troll here, but it's kind of hard to accuse the admin and the "elite 6" of having behind the scenes discussion in the same post where you are reading a spreadsheet of changes they have released to you before implementation.
Oh, but they didn't tell you it was page 5 paragraph 3 of the Big Book of Fae Lore cited for the faeling divinus change so that is...feudalism...apparently.
Nowhere that you can see. You weren't privvy to the discussion and explination because you are not an envoy. Not being present for a discussion or not knowing the motivation behind a change is not carte blanche to imply other people are gaming the system just because you disagree with the change. Fae are not merian, for a start. The fae are parts of the Maeve conciousness which was successful, to a degree, at fending the soulless which is where excoro energies are from or at least resisting it. Merian are shards. Has nothing to do with "proximity to Celest."
As to your second point, not everyone plays to PK, and their ways of playing are not less valid than yours. So your measurement of value for a race is not universal. Some people might think PK is boring and that flying aetherships is really cool and exciting. Non PKers are entitled to mechanics and races that fit their play style.
Half man cost for things like clotting and focus spirit is huge. Not universally amazing, but situationally very useful. Again, how you measure value is not how everyone else will.
A small correction, the fae as a whole are not parts of the Maeve, it is specifically only the forest fae that are bound to the Maeve(then later Manteekan's lot were added). It's in the book of Clangorum where it was specified and afaik it's been shown not only by the Fae in Crumkindivia but also the ocean Fae that there are fae that exist outside the Maeve.
On one hand it's more likely that Faelings are descended from Forest fae, other the other hand it would kinda mean that it wouldn't make much sense to be descended from Ocean fae, etc.
Personally, i'd think the more likely explanation is that the Fae as a group are awakened from the essence of the first world. They are comprised of divinus energies in various different balances, but still but of that animistic divinity of the first world. (or whatever)
The issue I actually have is that Shadow Faelings (i.e any faeling in Glomdoring) seem like they should switch this bonus to excorable, reflecting the difference between them and other faelings, the power of the wyrd flowing through them and all that.
Everyone start saving up your 100 cr now for the race you want to go into post change, I get the feeling there'll be a line at the Portal of Fate.
Well considering the changes are massive no matter how you see it, I'd expect there to be a free reincarnation for everyone. But that's just my opinion..
EDIT: Oh man. I fail at forum-page-changing. oh well..
So, will it be possible to play as a Tae'dae bard?
Also, this is a bit of a tangent from me as usual, but I was thinking at some point that the envoy/classlead system might have been a mistake. Getting ideas for new skills from players is good but there's a lot of hostility from the "game balance politics" that might have been less before envoys existed.
So, will it be possible to play as a Tae'dae bard?
Also, this is a bit of a tangent from me as usual, but I was thinking at some point that the envoy/classlead system might have been a mistake. Getting ideas for new skills from players is good but there's a lot of hostility from the "game balance politics" that might have been less before envoys existed.
Why would a tae'dae bard be impossible? Heck, you'd be able to play an Igasho/orclach/illithoid/whatever bard.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Influencing buffs do not a bard make. The point of the stat-less system is to make every race playable as every class. Some might have perks that work better for certain classes, like the igasho carry thing, but beyond that it ends up not mattering, really. Everyone has the same stats no matter what race they are.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
How about a hibernation ability for demigod Tae'dae that makes you un-attackable for a little while, cures things like bleeding, then you come out of the hibernation with more hp/mp/ep than you went into it with because it gives you a couple sleeping/meditation ticks (though you can't sip health etc. while hibernating, so it wouldn't be tons more).
Might be overpowered though and could need some drawback, such as you can't attack for awhile and move slowly after coming out of hibernating.
How about a hibernation ability for demigod Tae'dae that makes you un-attackable for a little while, cures things like bleeding, then you come out of the hibernation with more hp/mp/ep than you went into it with because it gives you a couple sleeping/meditation ticks (though you can't sip health etc. while hibernating, so it wouldn't be tons more).
Might be overpowered though and could need some drawback, such as you can't attack for awhile and move slowly after coming out of hibernating.
Smells like a psymet suspended animation clone. That said my understanding is that racial overhaul has pretty much been decided on and has gone to the coders already. As such, things are already being implemented. Making alterations at this point might be counter-productive. Their demi power is decent from the look of things... maybe not for a bard, but then again that would depend on the actual affliction it gives. Demi+ powers are still not known either, so that might end up being a thing as well.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
How about a hibernation ability for demigod Tae'dae that makes you un-attackable for a little while, cures things like bleeding, then you come out of the hibernation with more hp/mp/ep than you went into it with because it gives you a couple sleeping/meditation ticks (though you can't sip health etc. while hibernating, so it wouldn't be tons more).
Might be overpowered though and could need some drawback, such as you can't attack for awhile and move slowly after coming out of hibernating.
Smells like a psymet suspended animation clone. That said my understanding is that racial overhaul has pretty much been decided on and has gone to the coders already. As such, things are already being implemented.
This is correct. The affliction will be likely similar to crushed chest/collapse lung esque effects that are being discussed in the warrior overhaul, which will prevent smoking. Whatever it ends up being called in the end, that'll be the concept.
Hugs are all about love, and finding their way to one's heart, it seems the fastest way is going right through the rib cage.
To address the earlier discussion, we're looking at various ways to address accessing the Demigod perk and find replacements for the endowments. It may well be that the perk is separate from the power system, and other new powers are added instead. The design concept was that demigod weight should matter, you should never be able to simply grab all the things you want and not have to think about flexing in and out from situation to situation. With the loss of endowments, roughly 18-36 weight has been freed up, which is more than enough.
There were several ways to resolve this, we could have lowered the weight limit or raised the general weight of all other abilities. However we're currently looking at three new endowments around health, mana and ego that could replace what we have now. At the time of the discussion which was leaked onto here, those endowments were not a concept we were looking at.
I'm very much of the mindset of wanting to discuss concepts, ideas and thought processes with the playerbase, but on the grounds that people understand they are just that, non finalised ideas and at times unsubmitted proposals. Discussing things and having ideas taken as "They're going to be doing this, it's confirmed, time to celebrate/panic" is what stops me from doing so.
If anything gets confirmed, you'll see it being announced as such, likely in a news post in game should it be deployed. Otherwise, take anything you hear with a pinch of salt.
When the special anomaly for a project says "This was the plan all along, and is how it's going to be one way or another", people tend to get the idea that it's.. going to be that way like it or not. In the past, that has very much been the case: At this point heels dig in and by golly, it's sure going to be 'that way', good idea or not. It's really fantastic that other options have come up and are floating around instead!
Unless something comes with a direct "These are just prototypes, don't tell anyone etc." flag on it*^, the assumption is that it can be discussed. In fact, my assumption is that it should be shared! The purpose of Envoys is to create a bridge between players and the administrators who balance the game, so that everyone can be on the same page. That way, the envoys, who are numerous, can go out and interact with the rest of the players in a manner the administrators don't have time for. In fact, the ENVOYHELP GOODENVOY file we're meant to read when we are new, it says the following: " Encourage a conversation and share your feelings about why it is a problem. If you have been approached by another Envoy, share your knowledge freely and remain civil and polite."
It probably is the case that there was/is some essential disconnect here on what the role of Envoys is, and what the expectation of secrecy is. It would be sad if the giant, awesome leaps towards more real discussion between players and administrators on changes like this were walked back as a result. That would suck, the legacy of @Iosai must live on, there's a reason he has such a big fan base! The only thing I mentioned that was 'new' information was thoroughly presented as having been part that the administrators participating heard and assumed that all the players knew - clearly not the case. It really would be a shame if further communication were stifled because of something minor like that.
*Or is discussion about a nasty bug, for which there are obvious reasons to not share until it's fixed or otherwise handled.
^In fact, this very discussion had some things that were explicitly mentioned as being in alpha, and that were secret. Those things were not "leaked" (by me, at least), because you asked everyone not to.
EDIT: I hate these forums, I have no idea why the formatting is so.. deficient. Just head-embiggen the stuff about it being great that there is more dialogue. I've been an envoy for years, and the trend Iosai started in being available to actually talk about stuff and have a back-and-forth instead of wasting time on 'talking' past each other with reports is great.
There, however, is a difference between being a bridge between the administration and the playerbase and being a panic bell for changes that may or may not exist to incite a reaction. Your announcement was very much the latter, per the below:
You don't get the power listed as a 'demigod' power on these tables when you become a demigod. You have to get demigod, and then spend essence and weight to unlock it. What?
The way to encourage discussion is as important as the discussion itself, since panic clouds what could be a fairly calm dialogue. I can see how @Baelor would react to others taking ideas out to the populace in a pure form when it has so many more layers to go through yet. Heck, I hadn't even heard about this idea until it was already posted on the forums, and I've been pretty active in this Overhaul.
Yes, I know your reaction isn't unfounded since a lot of the time, when an Admin idea gets thrown around it tends to go through, but rarely so in the original state it was first proposed. It happens, yes, but not 100% of the time anyway.
It was made clear that in this thread administrative comments and replies were made in the context of needing to purchase the power as a demigod. Further, there was an expression of incredulity from admins to the tune of "You mean you didn't know that? We thought everyone knew that.". In other words, they (or at least, those present and speaking) took all of our input as if we had considered this (missing) portion of the proposal. Further, it was said repeatedly and firmly that this wasn't a new idea, that it had been part of the starting concept behind the entire proposal, that it was part and parcel with it from the beginning. The fact therefore that you had no idea about it is a kinda big deal - not something to beat anyone up over (see above post about disconnects), but certainly something you should be informed of as soon as the disconnect is noticed.
I don't really want to drag this out anymore (and won't post about it anymore), but this is not a case of those darn envoys leaking secret information, well-intentioned or otherwise. It's the case of an accidental omission of details being corrected, yeesh. I'm glad that more powers are going to be added, and hope that it sets up a trend of populating/upgrading the demishop with useful powers in the future.
There, however, is a difference between being a bridge between the administration and the playerbase and being a panic bell for changes that may or may not exist to incite a reaction. Your announcement was very much the latter, per the below:
You don't get the power listed as a 'demigod' power on these tables when you become a demigod. You have to get demigod, and then spend essence and weight to unlock it. What?
The way to encourage discussion is as important as the discussion itself, since panic clouds what could be a fairly calm dialogue. I can see how @Baelor would react to others taking ideas out to the populace in a pure form when it has so many more layers to go through yet. Heck, I hadn't even heard about this idea until it was already posted on the forums, and I've been pretty active in this Overhaul.
Yes, I know your reaction isn't unfounded since a lot of the time, when an Admin idea gets thrown around it tends to go through, but rarely so in the original state it was first proposed. It happens, yes, but not 100% of the time anyway.
It's not even that, it's that we were told flat-out, uncompromising, no chance ever that the Demigod perk would be weightless. It was a line in the sand that Could Not Be Crossed and that no amount of dialogue ever would change it (unless it had a super-high essence cost). As such, it wasn't really part of any "numbers" system or an "alpha" design, it Was The Way It Was. That seems to be why Enyalida felt that it was all right to discuss it (because it wasn't the super-secret numbers stuff), but I'm not positive.
If it hadn't been made such a concrete, inflexible thing, I suspect that she wouldn't have posted.
Edit: That said, I absolutely agree with you that the way she posted it was unproductive in its own right and did not contribute to a positive dialogue either.
@Xenthos is correct. It was said to be part of the proposal, period. I've refrained from direct quotes to that effect because I closed the window before grabbing a true log and would be paraphrasing, and folks are already annoyed about sharing stuff, so..
Damn, lured into posting about it again.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
edited May 2015
Seriously.Your post starts with "whoa whoa," when no prior comment or conversation on this thread was being had, so can we stop the song and dance about how you didn't know it was "new." It's not like you brought known information here expecting an honest conversation, your comment was anything but inviting for an honest conversation, so let's just drop the charade about you just "sharing" information and have some real talk. You didn't provide specifics, alternatives, draw comparisons with very similar already existing mechanics, explanations, nothing. Just so we're clear, eeeeeveryone here knows you were not just doing your envoy duty and "sharing."
If you sincerely want to maintain the dialogue with the admin, it starts with acknowledging that you brought that information here and presented it in as vague of a way as possible in order to incite a reaction from the forums population, and you did so knowing that that conversation had not yet been had, and certainly not finalized. Then it's followed by an acknowledgement of your poor presentation, some expression of remorse, and then not doing it again.
"Be more like Iosai?" Your whole post is spectacularly patronizing.
Admittedly, I don't see where the admin have brought up anything related to what Enyalida said prior to her comment here. I figured it was pretty obvious that whatever the admin say on envoys is still not final until they make a thread about it saying so. Even if you're not 99% sure that it's gonna happen, it's not very conducive to release preliminary ideas without admin consent. Might as well post up every conversation on envoys, right.
And come on, the way that initial post was presented was anything but an attempt to "create a bridge between admins and envoys", it definitely came off as a reactionary post trying to inflame opinion.
Only if us mugwump folks get CATCHFLY sparkleberries!
I like the idea of having CATCHFLY have some kind of passive effect like viscanti's poison breath, maybe some kind of 5% chance on doing scabies and confusion (hypnotoads assemble)? Since we already have some regeneration from what I can see in the thread here, I think it would be neat.
The apple is cold, crisp, and sour as the juices fill your mouth. As you consume the fruit, you glimpse, for a moment, a massive, shadowy figure, Her snow-white hair framing a perfect, icy-eyed visage. Beneath you, a vast, perfect web of silken strands lies - and, for a moment, you realize that you too are part of it, weaver and strand both - and home.
The apple is cold, crisp, and sour as the juices fill your mouth. As you consume the fruit, you glimpse, for a moment, a massive, shadowy figure, Her snow-white hair framing a perfect, icy-eyed visage. Beneath you, a vast, perfect web of silken strands lies - and, for a moment, you realize that you too are part of it, weaver and strand both - and home.
Why would posting up every conversation be a bad thing? So long as things were understood to be spitballing/nothing set in stone from the get go, I imagine that most individuals who are not envoys yet are interested in the changes being considered to the mechanics of the game are mature enough understand what spitballing is.
Of course, I can get the scuttlebutt directly from my envoy representative. Which I do on a fairly regular basis. But to get his level of access, I'd have to replace him, and I'll be straight up, Lerad is far more knowledgeable about me than everything, and I'd be doing the game a disservice replacing him.
Comments
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
The problem with lusternia communication in a nutshell. The idea that a select few somehow have the say upon what is 'best' for the rest of us, with apparently the intent that they would be doing what is best for their section. Feudalism at its best. I dont see Lusternia ever getting better if the select 'golden ones', being a handful of 6, seem to be the main feedback the administration care to listen to (and even then, sometimes only 1 having the largest say in a matter, such as in the celestine shackles debacle).
Until this idea of 'hidden behind-the-scenes' discussions with 'our select few' favoritism is removed, things arent likely to ever change.
The envoys were given insight into the design process on the grounds that they weren't going to be putting unfinished, non-finalised details of various matters on the forums. That was my error, and it won't be happening again.
You paint the picture of the envoys somehow being some selfish hoarders of the admin's attention, and demand at the same time that your opinion be the only one they listen to.
Stop wasting our time and go bother someone else.
EDIT: Oh man. I fail at forum-page-changing. oh well..
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
This is correct. The affliction will be likely similar to crushed chest/collapse lung esque effects that are being discussed in the warrior overhaul, which will prevent smoking. Whatever it ends up being called in the end, that'll be the concept.
To address the earlier discussion, we're looking at various ways to address accessing the Demigod perk and find replacements for the endowments. It may well be that the perk is separate from the power system, and other new powers are added instead. The design concept was that demigod weight should matter, you should never be able to simply grab all the things you want and not have to think about flexing in and out from situation to situation. With the loss of endowments, roughly 18-36 weight has been freed up, which is more than enough.
There were several ways to resolve this, we could have lowered the weight limit or raised the general weight of all other abilities. However we're currently looking at three new endowments around health, mana and ego that could replace what we have now. At the time of the discussion which was leaked onto here, those endowments were not a concept we were looking at.
I'm very much of the mindset of wanting to discuss concepts, ideas and thought processes with the playerbase, but on the grounds that people understand they are just that, non finalised ideas and at times unsubmitted proposals. Discussing things and having ideas taken as "They're going to be doing this, it's confirmed, time to celebrate/panic" is what stops me from doing so.
If anything gets confirmed, you'll see it being announced as such, likely in a news post in game should it be deployed. Otherwise, take anything you hear with a pinch of salt.
I don't really want to drag this out anymore (and won't post about it anymore), but this is not a case of those darn envoys leaking secret information, well-intentioned or otherwise. It's the case of an accidental omission of details being corrected, yeesh. I'm glad that more powers are going to be added, and hope that it sets up a trend of populating/upgrading the demishop with useful powers in the future.
If it hadn't been made such a concrete, inflexible thing, I suspect that she wouldn't have posted.
Edit: That said, I absolutely agree with you that the way she posted it was unproductive in its own right and did not contribute to a positive dialogue either.
Damn, lured into posting about it again.