I'm glad hamsters are retired. Artifacts that encourage people to irritate orgs by repeatedly trying to break in to places are not fun. Or to areas the admin are currently constructing but are not released yet (YES, I HAVE BEEN AROUND YOU GUYS LONG ENOUGH TO KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING WITH THEM).
Has the dingbat nose been reskinned? People always customize that because it looks silly.
I have to disagree and say you don't know what you're talking about here, for the reasons Chade aforementioned to start. They are used almost exclusively for exploration in smaller areas like temples, and a few quest areas. They're useless for guildhalls, and 1 use per RL day is a huge deterrent for any shenanigans.
Reality is infinite use hamster for a few power. It's absurd and makes the hamster obsolete anyway. If you or anyone else have even the slightest distaste for the hamster you should really think a little bit and lobby for removal of reality (and maybe convergence) first.
Chade, why would even consider that when you have citymates with reality to use whenever you want?
I'm glad hamsters are retired. Artifacts that encourage people to irritate orgs by repeatedly trying to break in to places are not fun. Or to areas the admin are currently constructing but are not released yet (YES, I HAVE BEEN AROUND YOU GUYS LONG ENOUGH TO KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING WITH THEM).
Has the dingbat nose been reskinned? People always customize that because it looks silly.
I have to disagree and say you don't know what you're talking about here, for the reasons Chade aforementioned to start. They are used almost exclusively for exploration in smaller areas like temples, and a few quest areas. They're useless for guildhalls, and 1 use per RL day is a huge deterrent for any shenanigans.
Reality is infinite use hamster for a few power. It's absurd and makes the hamster obsolete anyway. If you or anyone else have even the slightest distaste for the hamster you should really think a little bit and lobby for removal of reality (and maybe convergence) first.
Chade, why would even consider that when you have citymates with reality to use whenever you want?
Well years and years of playing very distinctly tell me otherwise. I've actually seen the hamster used for this exact reason. While you may think I "don't know what I'm talking about," the factual reality is that this is what they've been used for. You'll also note I didn't say "oh noes the guildhalls." I didn't even name guildhalls! Breaking in to temples is just as obnoxious for those involved. 1 day is not a deterrent, it is a limitation. Completely different things. A deterrent would be once a day you randomly explode when you use the hamster.
I'll say it again, I have literally seen the hamster used for this reason. (as well as reality, but that was nerfed, so bippity boppity boop...pointless argument).
Clearly this is going to fall in to two camps. I just happen to be in the one that thinks there are more important things than the handful of people trying to farm explorer rankings. I think there is a fundamental flaw in any item that is designed to bypass coded area restrictions, like temples.
If there is any other reason for the hamster, then fine. If it's just a tool to farm explorer rankings by bypassing traditional methods, then no. It's a silly artifact.
You may have seen someone do something as Celina or otherwise, but when you use such alleged info to make claims about "you guys" as a broad generalizations about something only a few people have I am going to point out that it is erroneous.
Also, I've used it a number of times to get out of locked down locations, escape a group gank, et cetera.
I'm glad hamsters are retired. Artifacts that encourage people to irritate orgs by repeatedly trying to break in to places are not fun. Or to areas the admin are currently constructing but are not released yet (YES, I HAVE BEEN AROUND YOU GUYS LONG ENOUGH TO KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING WITH THEM).
Has the dingbat nose been reskinned? People always customize that because it looks silly.
I have to disagree and say you don't know what you're talking about here, for the reasons Chade aforementioned to start. They are used almost exclusively for exploration in smaller areas like temples, and a few quest areas. They're useless for guildhalls, and 1 use per RL day is a huge deterrent for any shenanigans.
Reality is infinite use hamster for a few power. It's absurd and makes the hamster obsolete anyway. If you or anyone else have even the slightest distaste for the hamster you should really think a little bit and lobby for removal of reality (and maybe convergence) first.
Chade, why would even consider that when you have citymates with reality to use whenever you want?
Well years and years of playing very distinctly tell me otherwise. I've actually seen the hamster used for this exact reason. While you may think I "don't know what I'm talking about," the factual reality is that this is what they've been used for. You'll also note I didn't say "oh noes the guildhalls." I didn't even name guildhalls! Breaking in to temples is just as obnoxious for those involved. 1 day is not a deterrent, it is a limitation. Completely different things. A deterrent would be once a day you randomly explode when you use the hamster.
I'll say it again, I have literally seen the hamster used for this reason. (as well as reality, but that was nerfed, so bippity boppity boop...pointless argument).
Clearly this is going to fall in to two camps. I just happen to be in the one that thinks there are more important things than the handful of people trying to farm explorer rankings. I think there is a fundamental flaw in any item that is designed to bypass coded area restrictions, like temples.
If there is any other reason for the hamster, then fine. If it's just a tool to farm explorer rankings by bypassing traditional methods, then no. It's a silly artifact.
Traditional methods being what I usually employ? Sure, anyone can go dreamweaving and sit in inner temples for hours on end waiting for an order member to decide they want to visit their inner temple but it's hours and hours of work to do it - and even then you've only got an even chance of fooling someone.
The whole point of a rankings system is to encourage people to explore the game. As the game's grown, more and more areas have been put behind inaccessible barriers but some of us enjoy exploring and seeing all that the game has to offer. The top 4-5 of us are pretty much unassailable currently since we've all got Eventru's inner temple which still exists but no one can get to - which is something that should really change since it's fairly disheartening for other people who want to push for higher explorer rankings.
Access to the hamster would at least give people who don't have Loralaria or Reality a small chance of catching us up. Once per RL day is basically praying to the god of RNG if you want to get into a guildhall or any sort of org territory. On prime it's far faster to just bribe someone (surprisingly effective), teleport in or use dreamweaving. Yes, there are small cut off quest areas on prime that I want to try and access so I've got a chance of catching @Ixion up (think I'm 150-200 rooms behind you Ix - about 20 behind @Talan now) but I really don't see why that's a bad thing? Enough people have mentioned they'd buy a hamster to show there's a demand for them. None of them strike me as the type of people who're going to troll with them.
Hell, you don't see Gaudiguch going on mad dashes to break into Hallifaxian/Celestian inner temples to kill order mobs and we've had that ability for a couple of years. I really think you're overstating what will happen if these are released.
Frankly, if I want to troll your guildhall/inner temple I'll just use Reality or do it on a Symphonium alt.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
You may have seen someone do something as Celina or otherwise, but when you use such alleged info to make claims about "you guys" as a broad generalizations about something only a few people have I am going to point out that it is erroneous.
Also, I've used it a number of times to get out of locked down locations, escape a group gank, et cetera.
Next time I'll use caps along with italics and bold to emphasize my mild sarcasm. DOES THIS WORK, YOU GUYS? So whether or not you take issue with the term "you guys," it does not change the fact that the point, in and of itself, is not erroneous. It is actually factual, in that these hamsters have been used to break in to things like guildhalls, inner temples, unreleased areas, etc.
That aside, I just don't buy into the necessity artifact just so you can get into inner temples. People work and work to get the privelage of getting in to them.
I'm sorry, I'm just not buying that this artifact is for Ixion and Chade to have a hamster off. It'll be a public artifact. Your intentions as an individual are pretty irrelevent to the larger the discussion.
Do I think it's a huge deal? No. But I also don't want random people with squeaky hamsters in Viravain's inner temple, or any inner temple that isn't theirs for that matter. You want it? Work for it. Artifacts to circumvent things just to get what you want is not a fantastic precedent to set.
Getting into @Viravains inner temple (it was very pretty/scary, please don't smite me) took me all of 15 seconds. All you have to do to break into any inner temple is pay a reality user to drop a couple of them or pay a Loralaria user to convoke you and you're in. These abilities have been in the game for a couple of RL years, I haven't seen much wailing or gnashing of teeth about it and I'm one of the main offenders.
Your whole argument about hamsters causing a major issue is pretty irrelevant because abilities which are far better than a hamster already exist and are open to a large portion of the player base.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Incorrect. The presence of other issues does not mean we add more to it. In fact, that's the complete opposite direction to go. Simply because the envoy process has come to a screeching hault doesn't make the arugment "these skills exist!" a valid one. I just can't do anything about them. They are limited to guilds at least, and not public artifacts.
Incorrect. The presence of other issues does not mean we add more to it. In fact, that's the complete opposite direction to go. Simply because the envoy process has come to a screeching hault doesn't make the arugment "these skills exist!" a valid one. I just can't do anything about them. They are limited to guilds at least, and not public artifacts.
These skills were available and being used for this purpose long before the envoy process was ended in favour of the overhaul - no one thought they were enough of an issue to post a report to fix this "problem". Hamsters already exist in the wild and certain people have access to versions of them which are far better than the hamster itself. Your entire argument was predicated on this statement: Artifacts that encourage people to irritate orgs by repeatedly trying to break in to places are not fun.
This artifact is extremely unlikely to increase break-in attempts to organisational territory since frankly it's not as good as options which already exist. Very few people use the skills available as break-in methods and I doubt any more are going to do it if the hamster is released as a goop item. The hamsters primary function will always be as a method of escape. The occasional person may attempt an org break-in with them but based on the current situation, where far better methods are available and not being used, I doubt it will be many. You also threw in that sop about trying to break-in to areas not yet released by the admin, that honestly strikes me as attempting to fear-monger as a method of getting your own way - I've never been able to do that using reality although it's not like I'm trying. You're making a mountain out of a molehill with your argument.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
The envoys process has limits. The argument that just because it was not addressed by the envoy process, then it must be fine assumes that the envoy process, in its attempt to bring about balance, is fair and balanced in and of itself. (it's not.) Even if it was, it also assumes that the envoys address every issue. (they don't) Many things have not been addressed by the envoys, and many have problems with said things. Not to mention that people very clearly have a multitude of issues with reality. A skill not being addressed now or in the forseeable future does not mean that skill is okay. Solo inquisition has gotten better and better over the years, all sorts of people think it's stupid.
And, I have made no mountains. I have actually said, "do I think it's a huge deal? No." The only mountain being made is that my opinion that this artifact encourages bad behavior, even if on a small scale, and that is reason enough to not implement is somehow a mountain on it's own. There is no wailing. There is no gnashing. There is only "if the options are not having this and having this, I choose not.
Liberal usage of the term "fear mongering." I say it because I've seen it done first hand on aetherbubbles. Someone who shall remain nameless spent a fair bit of time trying to do just this (and it worked). But sure, rabble rabble rabble. The players would never use something like this to do something they're not supposed to! But even if there are hard coded restriction to this, it's really secondary to breaking in to org territory.
At any rate, I don't know if you two just have bad memories or weren't aware of it, or what. That doesn't change the fact that there was a period of time when these things were being used frequently to try and break in to places or circumvent area restrictions. If you want to add a caveat that it can only go place you could otherwise only walk/swim/fly/dig to, then fine. Hamsters for everyone! If not, then there's your answer as to why I think it's a bad idea.
People will still be curious as to what they look like.
I, for one, am not down with the most sacred inner sanctums being so easily infiltrated. They're supposed to be special, for people that work really hard for the privilege to enter places like inner temples. Similarly, I'm really accustomed to guild halls being places of safety, where I can daydream for just a tad bit if I need to.
Should just do what they did in MKO - make guildhalls/temples not count towards explorer rankings.
I support this change, it won't stop me trying to break in because I like to see places and go places that most people don't know about. But it would alleviate some of the issues.
@Maligorn - No where on prime should be considered safe from infiltration, people taking a few moments to daydream in guildhalls are mostly how I get in, except when I get creative with induce or dreamweaving illusions. Taking a few moments to daydream should be for manses really.
I would definitely love it if temples and guildhalls were made to not count for explorers. Breaking in to "see what they look like" is (to me) a more pure motivation than "breaking in to get personal benefit". If you're really, truly interested in getting in so that you can see what it's like, then by all means, feel free to try. You shouldn't feel compelled to keep wanting to get into the same GH over and over so that you can try to get the one last missing locked room that may or may not be open this time.
I agree with Celina. Inner temples are for people in that Order. If you trespass for whatever reasons, you should be made to face the consequences.
I agree with Chade. Where explorer rankings are concerned, everyone should be on even ground. If it's a ranking that's inherently unfair to certain groups, then scrap the rankings.
I personally feel it should become easier to break into sensitive areas like the Guildhalls and Inner temples. Because I want to be able to nail someone for doing that and giving them the consequences I mentioned above.
Conclusion: Remove explorer rankings, and then buff hamsters and release them as public artifacts.
Well... we have cloned items, from the look of things... wallet/saddlebags are listed twice. Beyond that, spectacles upgrades seem to be missing a Halli and Glom themed version... although I guess the bloodshot eye could go for Glom, too. I still would like to see the goop to transform censer option available, personally.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Wallet/saddlebag dupes removed and replaced with two new briefcase variants (fesix packs). Also added two new noses.
What would the censer variants be?
Any other ideas/suggestions not a chaos hamster? Also open to new artifact ideas!
What I mean is allow us to convert one censer into another for the 10 goop cost (Or maybe have an increased cost for that particular conversion). Not sure how likely that is to happen, but that is what I personally would like to see.
Beyond that... as far as other ideas are concerned... there have been numerous remarks about how people really don't enjoy the racial hats, so maybe see about having conversion options for those into something a bit more inconspicuous... and one that doesn't get doff-ed every time... i.e. not a hat.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
120 goop to upgrade a transplanar cubix to a torus!
*some* of us were never around when it was super easy to get one, this would be a super expensive method to get one, but at least it would be get-able! Have a heart!
The bountiful harvest band is a piece of jewelry you need to wear for the harvesting effects.
Re: the hats, it would be extremely difficult to change the hats more than any other artifact because we would need to create separate object variants for each type of race. Adding a bandana, for example, would require 20 different bandana objects which would each need to be hardcoded. We could, of course, completely redesign and rewrite the hardcode for the racehat system to make it more amenable to aethergoop but I'm not certain the amount of work involved would warrant us going in that direction. Sorry!!
Fair enough. I'd be happy with the racial hats not being targeted by the 'doff' emote. I like using that and prefer to ignore the fact that I'm wearing that hat at all... but it tends to get thrown in every time. Either way, going off on a bit of a tangent here...
How about an item customization ticket (of your own design, i.e. the same thing that is offered at 50cr) for 10 goop?
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Comments
Reality is infinite use hamster for a few power. It's absurd and makes the hamster obsolete anyway. If you or anyone else have even the slightest distaste for the hamster you should really think a little bit and lobby for removal of reality (and maybe convergence) first.
Chade, why would even consider that when you have citymates with reality to use whenever you want?
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
Well years and years of playing very distinctly tell me otherwise. I've actually seen the hamster used for this exact reason. While you may think I "don't know what I'm talking about," the factual reality is that this is what they've been used for. You'll also note I didn't say "oh noes the guildhalls." I didn't even name guildhalls! Breaking in to temples is just as obnoxious for those involved. 1 day is not a deterrent, it is a limitation. Completely different things. A deterrent would be once a day you randomly explode when you use the hamster.
I'll say it again, I have literally seen the hamster used for this reason. (as well as reality, but that was nerfed, so bippity boppity boop...pointless argument).
Clearly this is going to fall in to two camps. I just happen to be in the one that thinks there are more important things than the handful of people trying to farm explorer rankings. I think there is a fundamental flaw in any item that is designed to bypass coded area restrictions, like temples.
If there is any other reason for the hamster, then fine. If it's just a tool to farm explorer rankings by bypassing traditional methods, then no. It's a silly artifact.
Also, I've used it a number of times to get out of locked down locations, escape a group gank, et cetera.
Traditional methods being what I usually employ? Sure, anyone can go dreamweaving and sit in inner temples for hours on end waiting for an order member to decide they want to visit their inner temple but it's hours and hours of work to do it - and even then you've only got an even chance of fooling someone.Next time I'll use caps along with italics and bold to emphasize my mild sarcasm. DOES THIS WORK, YOU GUYS? So whether or not you take issue with the term "you guys," it does not change the fact that the point, in and of itself, is not erroneous. It is actually factual, in that these hamsters have been used to break in to things like guildhalls, inner temples, unreleased areas, etc.
That aside, I just don't buy into the necessity artifact just so you can get into inner temples. People work and work to get the privelage of getting in to them.
I'm sorry, I'm just not buying that this artifact is for Ixion and Chade to have a hamster off. It'll be a public artifact. Your intentions as an individual are pretty irrelevent to the larger the discussion.
Do I think it's a huge deal? No. But I also don't want random people with squeaky hamsters in Viravain's inner temple, or any inner temple that isn't theirs for that matter. You want it? Work for it. Artifacts to circumvent things just to get what you want is not a fantastic precedent to set.
The envoys process has limits. The argument that just because it was not addressed by the envoy process, then it must be fine assumes that the envoy process, in its attempt to bring about balance, is fair and balanced in and of itself. (it's not.) Even if it was, it also assumes that the envoys address every issue. (they don't) Many things have not been addressed by the envoys, and many have problems with said things. Not to mention that people very clearly have a multitude of issues with reality. A skill not being addressed now or in the forseeable future does not mean that skill is okay. Solo inquisition has gotten better and better over the years, all sorts of people think it's stupid.
And, I have made no mountains. I have actually said, "do I think it's a huge deal? No." The only mountain being made is that my opinion that this artifact encourages bad behavior, even if on a small scale, and that is reason enough to not implement is somehow a mountain on it's own. There is no wailing. There is no gnashing. There is only "if the options are not having this and having this, I choose not.
Liberal usage of the term "fear mongering." I say it because I've seen it done first hand on aetherbubbles. Someone who shall remain nameless spent a fair bit of time trying to do just this (and it worked). But sure, rabble rabble rabble. The players would never use something like this to do something they're not supposed to! But even if there are hard coded restriction to this, it's really secondary to breaking in to org territory.
At any rate, I don't know if you two just have bad memories or weren't aware of it, or what. That doesn't change the fact that there was a period of time when these things were being used frequently to try and break in to places or circumvent area restrictions. If you want to add a caveat that it can only go place you could otherwise only walk/swim/fly/dig to, then fine. Hamsters for everyone! If not, then there's your answer as to why I think it's a bad idea.
I, for one, am not down with the most sacred inner sanctums being so easily infiltrated. They're supposed to be special, for people that work really hard for the privilege to enter places like inner temples. Similarly, I'm really accustomed to guild halls being places of safety, where I can daydream for just a tad bit if I need to.
I agree with Chade. Where explorer rankings are concerned, everyone should be on even ground. If it's a ranking that's inherently unfair to certain groups, then scrap the rankings.
I personally feel it should become easier to break into sensitive areas like the Guildhalls and Inner temples. Because I want to be able to nail someone for doing that and giving them the consequences I mentioned above.
Conclusion: Remove explorer rankings, and then buff hamsters and release them as public artifacts.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
What would the censer variants be?
Any other ideas/suggestions not a chaos hamster? Also open to new artifact ideas!
Beyond that... as far as other ideas are concerned... there have been numerous remarks about how people really don't enjoy the racial hats, so maybe see about having conversion options for those into something a bit more inconspicuous... and one that doesn't get doff-ed every time... i.e. not a hat.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Re: the hats, it would be extremely difficult to change the hats more than any other artifact because we would need to create separate object variants for each type of race. Adding a bandana, for example, would require 20 different bandana objects which would each need to be hardcoded. We could, of course, completely redesign and rewrite the hardcode for the racehat system to make it more amenable to aethergoop but I'm not certain the amount of work involved would warrant us going in that direction. Sorry!!
How about an item customization ticket (of your own design, i.e. the same thing that is offered at 50cr) for 10 goop?
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."