There's something odd about a Tahtetso talking about how instakills make the game balanced, but I digress.
If they remove the "build up to a fatal strike" esque kill methods, then the game will lose a lot of balance. Timed instas however can go out the window and never come back, as far as I'm concerned.
The divine voice
of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations,
Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
As many of some of you may know, those who came to the IRE Meet was given a sneak preview of a proposal for a possible combat overhaul. We met and discussed the pros and cons, what players liked and didn't like and what the goals are. Below is an abbreviated version of the proposal. (Details in the full proposal are currently under review based on discussions).
Would full details be made available to us at some point, or are most/all of them intended to remain under wraps until the arena test roll-out? I am excited about the idea of simplification and I like what is there under pro's and feel a year is fair trade for it, but I'd be curious to see more detail before encouraging the expenditure of the time.
Also, out of curiosity, will you be picking up more coders for the duration of the project?
that is an interesting question, are you going to explain the details to everyone that did not come to the irl meet? and if not is there going to be a poll or some sort of a questionnaire that would allow those of us that were not able to come to the irl meet able to vote and be heard just like the rest? i think you could get quite a bit of good information off of a free discussion poll made directly off of the combat-overhaul.
Speaking of all classes, I'd personally like to see a bit of a change to the GC artis... specifically, there shouldn't be the massive disparity between GC artis that exists right now with the wiccan/guardian classes having an extra ent that can pretty much kill people on its own. At most, the GC arti should buff the effects of abilities the GC primarily uses (i.e. abilities that work toward an insta-kill, not direct damage) by no more than 5%
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Speaking of all classes, I'd personally like to see a bit of a change to the GC artis... specifically, there shouldn't be the massive disparity between GC artis that exists right now with the wiccan/guardian classes having an extra ent that can pretty much kill people on its own. At most, the GC arti should buff the effects of abilities the GC primarily uses (i.e. abilities that work toward an insta-kill, not direct damage) by no more than 5%
Agreed. This is how I've felt about guardian and wiccan ents for a while, but the decision was to make them stronger and the design apparently wants them to be very strong. I argue that a guild champion should be competent and experienced at using the base skills of their guild and therefore shouldn't need those kinds of extras...but it is what it is.
Part of me wishes all classes were about build up than burst.
I -love- setup classes.
If target has: A. B. and C. You can kill. Always was my favorite.
I hate classes that try to rely on poisons and wound damage or have an instantkill that requires 10 seconds to fire.
I suppose I'm fine with kills that have conditions that need to be met as well, but I do wish these conditions required time and effort along the way and that someone competent couldn't unstoppably be killed in seconds. Things like sleeplocks, crucify locks, timequakes and what have you just wipe the floor with classes like warrior that need time. As long as there's that distinction between kill speed and ease, there'll always be a huge disparity.
I'd like to see them be more like the Warrior/Bard/Monk artifacts, less like the Guardian/Wiccan and Druid/Mage ones.
I mention Druid/Mage because your Champion should not suddenly become primary meld wench.
Eh, that all depends... melds are a bit more screwy in general. You want the person who can keep it best over the person who can meld the fastest... and really, as a druid, people should have absolutely no trouble winning meld wars against mages, even non-GC vs GC, but that's the meld mechanics differences for you. Either way, I'm fine with all GC artis only having the rescue function, and maybe a minor buff to dmg too... as it stands right now, there's a really massive difference between guilds in that regard.
EDIT: Heck... I'll take a pet over meld buff any day. :P
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
The thing is, these 'easy' kills, as mentioned earlier in the thread are there to, yeah... 'balance' the game.
Dumbest thing ever, but then a lot of combat aspects here are similar.
I do honestly believe it's a case of you either take warrior and actually work for your kill, or you take any other class and just spam the same thing over and over to achieve the same effect.
I think once this issue is addressed, things will improve.
Warriors now get higher speed (somewhat useful at least).
Which means bards should get +song time.
Druids/Mages should get faster eq/bal on FORCE only (like .3s faster so you recover before a normy).
Wiccans should get half cost to summon full fae group and/or channels (instead of 10 to call all, 5).
Guardians should get half cost or free for channels.
Or, just for argument, make them all similar to ledgers or other guild artys. Have it bestow no karma loss for kills, gains for those in your territory, and the ability to RESCUE. Done!
not sure if this was stated, but with the overhaul could Mage demesnes be less spammy and fire off less afflictions? Perhaps make it that they fire off 3 to 4 affs at someone standing in a melded room. I used to cringe whenever I walked into any demesne and they became what Lusternia combat was based on.
Demesnes are not as scary as you are making them out to be. Personally though, i have always thought demesnes were a flawed mechanic in lusternian combat and wouldn't bat an eye were they to be removed from the game
Demesnes are not as scary as you are making them out to be. Personally though, i have always thought demesnes were a flawed mechanic in lusternian combat and wouldn't bat an eye were they to be removed from the game
Demesnes really aren't that scary (except in certain niche situations)... but I agree that they are a bad mechanic and should be taken away at first chance.
I was REALLY hoping the chemantics skills were going to make good replacements, and before they were unveiled had talked with several other mage/druid envoys who all supported shifting away from demesnes once the new skills came out... and then they came out and we all changed our mind (for good reason).
I was looking forward to chemantics/wood myself, but eh... I do love my meld, even if I feel it's weaker than any druid's meld due to the disparity between illusory terrain and saplings. If I break a meld, I need to meld then cast illusory terrain. If a druid breaks a meld, they can sapling and then meld, which kind of means that a druid automatically wins meld wars against a mage, no matter what. One would think I should be able to see through my own illusory terrain for instance, but anyways... going off a bit on a tangent here.
Melds are okay, but I'd rather see that mage/druids do not have to rely on them either... still, mage/druid combat will have to see a lot of changes in that situation, especially druids. (Oh, and please... let's get rid of illusions for combat that are useless anyway, pretty please with sugar on top?)
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
What? I deal with all those comparatively simply. Heh. My point is, things would be a billion times more compact and faster, which is a bit strange that you're disagreeing with?
1) You can't win against amnesia, so that'll always be a small imperfection that ultimately is negligible. I think everyone ignores it except when it gives a line.
2) Stupidity is really a case of throwing all your recent actions in a table and checking to see if a following action was out of order. It's nothing much and would be lag proof if we didn't rely on timers.
3) Void same as above. Also a rare aff given by one class.
4) Forced actions are easy. Every forced action in the game gives a prefatory line which you can use to tell your system "undo what he did".
5) Hidden afflictions are thankfully predictable and a lot of them are actually pretty inconsequential (which this rehaul is gonna change). So while we might need to trigger the few lines that give hidden affs, we could make something like affmessages reliable and standard and make everyone trigger off that so that 2k+ triggers becomes way, way less. As a fellow user of mushclient, I imagine you can work out the advantage of that...
Either way, building "the perfect system" will take some work, but will be much, much less time consuming and a beginner could make something fairly robust (not to mention it wouldn't be as daunting, so some community produced systems could pop up more often). We wouldn't need to release updates after every typo fix and bug people repeatedly to help us get new lines. It would make things better for everyone.
I hate to bring other games into this, but didn't Imperian get rid of illusions? I wouldn't call their combat a flavor-less Nethack experience personally. I highly doubt that E and co. would let that happen in any case.
Comments
If they remove the "build up to a fatal strike" esque kill methods, then the game will lose a lot of balance. Timed instas however can go out the window and never come back, as far as I'm concerned.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
that is an interesting question, are you going to explain the details to everyone that did not come to the irl meet? and if not is there going to be a poll or some sort of a questionnaire that would allow those of us that were not able to come to the irl meet able to vote and be heard just like the rest? i think you could get quite a bit of good information off of a free discussion poll made directly off of the combat-overhaul.
If target has: A. B. and C. You can kill. Always was my favorite.
I hate classes that try to rely on poisons and wound damage or have an instantkill that requires 10 seconds to fire.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
I mention Druid/Mage because your Champion should not suddenly become primary meld wench.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
Agreed. This is how I've felt about guardian and wiccan ents for a while, but the decision was to make them stronger and the design apparently wants them to be very strong. I argue that a guild champion should be competent and experienced at using the base skills of their guild and therefore shouldn't need those kinds of extras...but it is what it is.
EDIT: Heck... I'll take a pet over meld buff any day. :P
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Dumbest thing ever, but then a lot of combat aspects here are similar.
I do honestly believe it's a case of you either take warrior and actually work for your kill, or you take any other class and just spam the same thing over and over to achieve the same effect.
I think once this issue is addressed, things will improve.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
Signature!
I was REALLY hoping the chemantics skills were going to make good replacements, and before they were unveiled had talked with several other mage/druid envoys who all supported shifting away from demesnes once the new skills came out... and then they came out and we all changed our mind (for good reason).
Melds are okay, but I'd rather see that mage/druids do not have to rely on them either... still, mage/druid combat will have to see a lot of changes in that situation, especially druids. (Oh, and please... let's get rid of illusions for combat that are useless anyway, pretty please with sugar on top?)
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.