I have to say that the need to reign in feature creep is crucial. Though I fear losing some of the complexity that makes Lusternia entertaining, we still do need to resolve the basic issue of the game just being too [CENSORED] complex for people to get into at the basic level. I've attempted to teach many people combat, and only on occasion do they start getting it, even after a while. This is a project that I feel would be very good for the health of the game, and with that said, I fully support it. I do ask that it be done openly, so that we all have an idea of what we're seeing as the game goes on, what aspects will be changed, potential ideas for change, etc. Having shells in the arena would be ideal...and frankly, I think that's kinda fun anyway, if we can goof off and use shells to fiddle with different classes that way. I look forward to helping to test out the changes.
My understanding is that is entirely the purpose behind having arena shells; players will be able to get lines, try out the system, find balance issues and just help out the overhaul as much as possible. It is tough to give a full set of details without actually having the shells available though (lots of excessively distracting theorycrafting).
A lot of combat balance issues could be solved by doing three things:
Nerfing Buffs. Like karma blessings, throne, kirigami, constructs, TRUEFAVORS*********<-----SO IMPORTANT
Nerfing passive powers, like shrines, discretionaries, demesne/bard/contagion/maelstorm/things that make rooms into fortresses and hit everyone or large amounts of people in the room.
Nerfing Racial bonuses. Like Level 3 Equilibrium or level 2 balance being the most broken.
If combat is still very much broken and boring after changing those three things, then I would suggest a combat overhaul. There are so many very little things that push combat to the extremes that it just becomes overwhelmingly boring.
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
Silvanus, I don't think that those are the core issue. Although yes, I DO feel that those are common troubles we have with the current combat system, those don't fully affect ease of entry as well as other things. THe fact that we do have hundreds upon hundreds of afflictions with a multitude of skillsets to choose from makes it very difficult for anybody who isn't at least somewhat familiar with how things function to jump in. Even trying to explain the difference between Totems and Hunting to young Serenguard tends to just get 'huh?' faces.
I generally steer them towards Totems, though some do prefer Hunting for PvP purposes. Look at Everiine. (I know, not an example of a combatant). Anyway, off topic.
What about the current projects that are in the works? Are the last 2 monk guilds going to be put on hold after the Combat Overhaul is finished or are you going to finish up with all the projects currently on the works?
Didn't even know the last 2 monk guilds were in the works to be put on hold in the first place. It is likely that they'll be postponed if this process begins.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Wouldn't it be better to design the thematics and the lore for the new monk guilds, and then wait for the combat revamp to be done so as to assign the new system to the monks at start?
What about the current projects that are in the works? Are the last 2 monk guilds going to be put on hold after the Combat Overhaul is finished or are you going to finish up with all the projects currently on the works?
Lusternia does not have the population for the two new monk guilds anyhow but that's for another thread. Who knows, maybe if this overhaul is successful, that might change.
I'd hope that this helps resolve the population issue. Not that we don't have population now, but there's a large divide, and it is hard to retain new people.
I am torn honestly. I am both looking forward to this, but also dreading the time in between and the possible effect after its done. Combat complexity is one thing that drew me in and kept me around so long. Not to say that it still cant be complex afterwards. I just dont want it dumbed down too much. This would be an entirely different game too, everything will change, not just combat. Im really not trying to be pessimistic, its just a lot to think about, especially since the details are pretty vague, though it sounds like its still a bit vague to the admin as well. I definately want to see where this is going, i just hope the admin are up-front about what is going on. Like "were working on warriors this month, we are focusing on (this) (this) and (this). Just so everyone knows how things are going, set-backs, and so on. Also telling us beforehand about what is being concentrated on can let the veterans put in their two cents to not let the idea stray so far away from being Lusternian that us long-time players are pushed away.
Combat is the main focus of this, i know, but i agree with the others that were saying streamlining other things with this is a good idea. Like making the envoy system faster and easier. I also would like to hear how the admin are going to handle the feature problem after this is implemented, as you wouldnt want to have to do this again. Also, i feel like the feature problem was self-fulfilled prophecy seeing as the players said it would happen with the release of the new guilds, and it did. Cutting the affs by half or near half, would that also mean cutting skills by that much? Are non-com skills going to be effected, the more RP skills i mean? This is all really random, just my head boggled with so many questions. Hopefully there will be transparency on the project as it is happening though. An exciting idea though, and a very challenging solution to a major problem that needs fixing and i am proud of the admin for taking it head on.
I'm not too worried about it. A lot of the affs serve the same purpose so they can be combined. When the combat system is all changed up some of the affs that played to the old system won't make sense any more and would need to be removed anyway.
It will be like that cherished childhood game where you hold down some kid and rip off his skin and make someone else wear it. It might not be the same kid but it sure looks like it.
I'm not too worried about it. A lot of the affs serve the same purpose so they can be combined. When the combat system is all changed up some of the affs that played to the old system won't make sense any more and would need to be removed anyway.
It will be like that cherished childhood game where you hold down some kid and rip off his skin and make someone else wear it. It might not be the same kid but it sure looks like it.
You know... for some reason I do not remember playing this game.
We're actually having some heated discussion on whether to split the code and run a test server version or use the character shells in the arena. I would assume character shells are OOC but if you want to RP them or think of some interesting RP reason for them, I really don't mind (but haven't thought through that at all).
Would a thread in Ideas regarding what afflictions / how various archtypes could be converted over to the new system be appropriate or useful at this point?
No; my understanding is that the first thing to do is to make one shell, and at that point the underlying fundamentals for the new system will be in place. At that time, it will be more appropriate to discuss the afflictions and revamping archetypes (once it's actually possible to begin seeing thing in action).
Otherwise it's just a whole bunch of theorycrafting way ahead of time, and that's a good way to get bogged down in details that just don't matter right now. They need a framework to drape the canvas on first!
What about the current projects that are in the works? Are the last 2 monk guilds going to be put on hold after the Combat Overhaul is finished or are you going to finish up with all the projects currently on the works?
Lusternia does not have the population for the two new monk guilds anyhow but that's for another thread. Who knows, maybe if this overhaul is successful, that might change.
Estarra said in her last video before Chems were released that the monk guilds were going to be released mid to late 2013. Estarra also said that Lusternia can't support another player org, like Ackleberry, not another two guilds.
No; my understanding is that the first thing to do is to make one shell, and at that point the underlying fundamentals for the new system will be in place. At that time, it will be more appropriate to discuss the afflictions and revamping archetypes (once it's actually possible to begin seeing thing in action).
Otherwise it's just a whole bunch of theorycrafting way ahead of time, and that's a good way to get bogged down in details that just don't matter right now. They need a framework to drape the canvas on first!
I would like to see some perhaps what sort of things the orgs would focus on. As an example right now, the bleeding in Glomdoring is something that seems to pop up from time to time.
Whether this is a desirable goal or not could be discussed.
Didn't even know the last 2 monk guilds were in the works to be put on hold in the first place. It is likely that they'll be postponed if this process begins.
Honestly, it would be smarter to start the combat overhaul first. If we were to release the monk guilds as it stands, they would be built around the old system and require major retweaking. Who knows? It may actually save more effort(envoy reports, bugs, balancing against other classes) in the long run.
No; my understanding is that the first thing to
do is to make one shell, and at that point the underlying fundamentals
for the new system will be in place. At that time, it will be more
appropriate to discuss the afflictions and revamping archetypes (once
it's actually possible to begin seeing thing in action).
Otherwise
it's just a whole bunch of theorycrafting way ahead of time, and that's
a good way to get bogged down in details that just don't matter right
now. They need a framework to drape the canvas on first!
Every idea is theorycraft before it is executed. Is that a 'No' to introducing a change in combat mechanics, or a 'No' to how you perceive the admin would go about implementing said changes?
"A man's not dead while his name is still spoken." - Terry Pratchett 1948-2015
It's a no, it is way too early to get into all of that.
Going through details like that without knowing the context is literally a waste of time. The next move is theirs. Once they give us a framework to use then we can start playing with it.
It's a no, it is way too early to get into all of that.
Going through details like that without knowing the context is literally a waste of time. The next move is theirs. Once they give us a framework to use then we can start playing with it.
I'm under the impression that they would only bother with the shells if there was a definite decision on the matter. As Estarra mentioned, it would require all resources to be focused on the project. It was also said that there would be a test server, etc. So your 'No' is more like a 'Maybe'.
Making a decision like this for any MUD is huge, and I don't think any of the admin take it as a blase thing. Have a little faith in their process.
"A man's not dead while his name is still spoken." - Terry Pratchett 1948-2015
The answer to - should we start a thread brainstorming the afflictions - is no. It's a good idea and might be helpful at some point but not this point.
Making. The. Answer. No.
Not maybe, not if I clap my hands i can bring fairies back to life, not dependent on my faith in anyone or in any process, based on how things work - in this, the actual world- the answer is no.
It was a good question from a smart cookie trying to be helpful, but the answer is no.
It's a no, it is way too early to get into all of that.
Going through details like that without knowing the context is literally a waste of time. The next move is theirs. Once they give us a framework to use then we can start playing with it.
I'm under the impression that they would only bother with the shells if there was a definite decision on the matter. As Estarra mentioned, it would require all resources to be focused on the project. It was also said that there would be a test server, etc. So your 'No' is more like a 'Maybe'.
Making a decision like this for any MUD is huge, and I don't think any of the admin take it as a blase thing. Have a little faith in their process.
They are asking on a much broader level right now. Putting together the underlying code for the shells will take a fair bit of time, yes, but far less than the complete overhaul will take (revamping all skillsets, all afflictions, etc). For one shell all they need is the framework and then a simpler set of initial changes.
The problem is that it will take quite a bit of time to get that shell up and going, and any theorycrafting on what nitpicky little details will occur when this aff or that class get reworked is absolutely meaningless right now. It serves zero purpose except to be a distraction, and will just bog down the whole discussion.
Thus, his no is indeed a no. To be cliche, you want to put the cart before the horse here... and the cart does not even have wheels yet. That poor horse is going to starve before it goes anywhere.
Comments
What about the current projects that are in the works? Are the last 2 monk guilds going to be put on hold after the Combat Overhaul is finished or are you going to finish up with all the projects currently on the works?
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
I am torn honestly. I am both looking forward to this, but also dreading the time in between and the possible effect after its done. Combat complexity is one thing that drew me in and kept me around so long. Not to say that it still cant be complex afterwards. I just dont want it dumbed down too much. This would be an entirely different game too, everything will change, not just combat. Im really not trying to be pessimistic, its just a lot to think about, especially since the details are pretty vague, though it sounds like its still a bit vague to the admin as well. I definately want to see where this is going, i just hope the admin are up-front about what is going on. Like "were working on warriors this month, we are focusing on (this) (this) and (this). Just so everyone knows how things are going, set-backs, and so on. Also telling us beforehand about what is being concentrated on can let the veterans put in their two cents to not let the idea stray so far away from being Lusternian that us long-time players are pushed away.
Combat is the main focus of this, i know, but i agree with the others that were saying streamlining other things with this is a good idea. Like making the envoy system faster and easier. I also would like to hear how the admin are going to handle the feature problem after this is implemented, as you wouldnt want to have to do this again. Also, i feel like the feature problem was self-fulfilled prophecy seeing as the players said it would happen with the release of the new guilds, and it did. Cutting the affs by half or near half, would that also mean cutting skills by that much? Are non-com skills going to be effected, the more RP skills i mean? This is all really random, just my head boggled with so many questions. Hopefully there will be transparency on the project as it is happening though. An exciting idea though, and a very challenging solution to a major problem that needs fixing and i am proud of the admin for taking it head on.
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
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Otherwise it's just a whole bunch of theorycrafting way ahead of time, and that's a good way to get bogged down in details that just don't matter right now. They need a framework to drape the canvas on first!
Estarra said in her last video before Chems were released that the monk guilds were going to be released mid to late 2013. Estarra also said that Lusternia can't support another player org, like Ackleberry, not another two guilds.
Also, let me have my monk alts, damn it
I would like to see some perhaps what sort of things the orgs would focus on. As an example right now, the bleeding in Glomdoring is something that seems to pop up from time to time.
Whether this is a desirable goal or not could be discussed.
Honestly, it would be smarter to start the combat overhaul first. If we were to release the monk guilds as it stands, they would be built around the old system and require major retweaking. Who knows? It may actually save more effort(envoy reports, bugs, balancing against other classes) in the long run.
Every idea is theorycraft before it is executed. Is that a 'No' to introducing a change in combat mechanics, or a 'No' to how you perceive the admin would go about implementing said changes?
"A man's not dead while his name is still spoken." - Terry Pratchett 1948-2015
I'm under the impression that they would only bother with the shells if there was a definite decision on the matter. As Estarra mentioned, it would require all resources to be focused on the project. It was also said that there would be a test server, etc. So your 'No' is more like a 'Maybe'.
Making a decision like this for any MUD is huge, and I don't think any of the admin take it as a blase thing. Have a little faith in their process.
"A man's not dead while his name is still spoken." - Terry Pratchett 1948-2015
I'm under the impression that they would only bother with the shells if there was a definite decision on the matter. As Estarra mentioned, it would require all resources to be focused on the project. It was also said that there would be a test server, etc. So your 'No' is more like a 'Maybe'.
Making a decision like this for any MUD is huge, and I don't think any of the admin take it as a blase thing. Have a little faith in their process.
They are asking on a much broader level right now. Putting together the underlying code for the shells will take a fair bit of time, yes, but far less than the complete overhaul will take (revamping all skillsets, all afflictions, etc). For one shell all they need is the framework and then a simpler set of initial changes.
The problem is that it will take quite a bit of time to get that shell up and going, and any theorycrafting on what nitpicky little details will occur when this aff or that class get reworked is absolutely meaningless right now. It serves zero purpose except to be a distraction, and will just bog down the whole discussion.
Thus, his no is indeed a no. To be cliche, you want to put the cart before the horse here... and the cart does not even have wheels yet. That poor horse is going to starve before it goes anywhere.