@ElrynGreythane I might be missing something, but to your last paragraph about contributing in a financial way...can't you buy an iron membership for 100-150cr/month plus lessons, plus increased experience, plus a wondercrystal? And buy credits whenever you might otherwise like to as well? That would be a pretty solid opt out of daily credits to me unless I'm missing something?
Amazing beautiful stunning avatar by Gurashi! ~ A gentle breeze ruffles your wings and whispers in your ears, as if for you alone, "Dragonfly's words shine... seeds, sown and tended, inspire... a forest harvest." ~ Maylea reaches out, Her fingers poised in midair. "Now you are of Me, even more than you were before." Her golden and azure eyes glitter. "Walk well, Eldin. Shed glory in My name, and bring life to the lifeless."
@Lief - In some sense, you’re quite right. Except that even though a membership serves up about 100 credits + a wondercrystal (the crystal being the really valuable part currently, unless they become bashable at Demi levels), I still have an unclaimed 600 credits that I either grind for or miss out on that month. That doesn’t seem like opting out to me.
Unless I up the monthly subscription to about $200 a month, I guess.
I can see where it would be awesome for us to get to have more free credits easier, and I overall think daily credits are a huge boon that could do with some tweaking (aetherbashing!). You already can get credits pretty easily depending on your city and how they run rewarding activities too though!
When I've got the time and am busy doing the stage/library thing, for example, I easily make 200+ credits an IG year. From what we've seen posted from Hallifax, it sounds like they reward people similarly well (if not better!). I don't remember my best IG year, but I'm sure it was over 300cr to be honest, which comes to more than 20cr a day during that year long period.
Maybe if people are feeling a lot of pain around the roleplay side of things and daily credits, our city councils can take another look at their rewards for citizens too? That's a bit of a tangent, but that's something that's at least relatively in our control. And if they won't relook at rewards, you can come join Serenwilde or Hallifax!
Amazing beautiful stunning avatar by Gurashi! ~ A gentle breeze ruffles your wings and whispers in your ears, as if for you alone, "Dragonfly's words shine... seeds, sown and tended, inspire... a forest harvest." ~ Maylea reaches out, Her fingers poised in midair. "Now you are of Me, even more than you were before." Her golden and azure eyes glitter. "Walk well, Eldin. Shed glory in My name, and bring life to the lifeless."
Seconding Lief on that. I don't bother with dailycredits at all because, as a person without tons of bashing arties and such, it is faster for me to do culture things for city credits than to do dailies.
Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
I know where you two are coming from, but people will still be bothered by the fact they can still do dailies on top of that. There's a certain personality that's just going to be bothered and incensed if they don't get that 20/20, and IRE is generally pretty good about catering to them. That, more than anything, makes this particular issue seem jarring imo
I get quite a lot of credits just by designing things. And I would get way more when I can be bothered to make a play/write a book. Still feel incomplete when I don't get all dailycredits though!
You are startled as a lemon meringue pie bounces harmlessly off you after being thrown at you by Mysrai.
I think it's okay if invested players aren't too fussed with daily credits if they're playing "enough" each day because the goal of the system is already being achieved. But also the system should still aim to reward them so the people who enjoy similar things but who are less invested can still be reached?
2. If the goal is to keep people logged in for two hours, make the full 20 credit reward contingent on their being logged in for two hours. Say Ilthilior manages to do Xion and get a hunting tick in half an hour because he's got it down to a science, mete out 5 credits every half hour he stays logged in for him to claim the full reward for his efforts. If he'd already put in the time RPing with guild novices, then he gets the credits upon completing the tasks as usual.
I feel like this is the sanest way to make this "goal" work while also not completely wrecking things to balance to the top. When you earn daily credits, you immediately get one for every 6 minutes that you've been logged in (20 credits * 6 minutes =120 minutes to get them all). Any credits past that go into a queue. Every six more minutes of play time, one gets released to you.
My preferred option would, of course, be: "Give quests a general rate based on how difficult they are; if someone's figured out how to make it go faster, then oh well, let it have the reward for general difficulty and not nerf it for everyone because of the few." If that's simply not an option because of some mandate from on high, then provide a drip to the game so it doesn't matter how much faster you earn than you're supposed to, you're still supposed to be active for that time. Can leave quest rewards the heck alone and keep adding more options in, buff up hunting/influencing, whatever you want because you've assigned an actual time goal instead of a random comparison of how fast two different people can complete the same tick.
I don't think it's understood how frustrating it is to be told, effectively, "You're playing the game too well, so everyone who does this thing is going to get nerfed."
Edit: As to the above, I've been earning a ton of credits from org things too, but I'm a bit of a completionist / hoarder. See: Curios. So when the daily credits aren't capped I feel like I should go cap them. Why? I don't know. It's not like I need any more bound credits, but I like to keep gathering them. Maybe I do just need to stop. Maybe they're not intended for me. The last thing I want is for people who are already saying how much of a difficulty it is for them to gather the things to be put at an even greater disadvantage, because most of you need the things way more than I do.
Edit 2: It's been a long day. Perhaps this post is a bit too over the top. I'm going to leave it because that's how I'm feeling right now. What it really boils down to now is: I don't understand how a thread about how to improve an aspect of the game instead morphed into... this. Was anyone complaining that we were earning daily ticks too fast? Was it breaking the game? Has it actually been an issue? I don't understand why it's a problem; why can't we just keep improving it, instead of taking one step forward and two steps back?
I think it's okay if invested players aren't too fussed with daily credits if they're playing "enough" each day because the goal of the system is already being achieved. But also the system should still aim to reward them so the people who enjoy similar things but who are less invested can still be reached?
I have invested somewhere in the vicinity of 27-28k credits in Alexandria, mostly thanks to retirement credits. There are still many things I want, many things I could use those credits for. It's just not worth actively working towards it most of the time because I could be doing more engaging things instead.
It really leaves a bad taste in my mouth to miss out on all those credits every day. But I also recognise that me actively trying to do things I don't enjoy regularly is going to kill my desire to log in and do anything. So I just let it slide and try not to get frustrated.
Czixi, the Welkin murmurs, "Fight on, My Effervescent Sylph. I will be with you as you do."
Aian Lerit'r, Lead Schematicist exclaims to you, "A *paperwork* emergency, Chairman!
I think it's okay if invested players aren't too fussed with daily credits if they're playing "enough" each day because the goal of the system is already being achieved. But also the system should still aim to reward them so the people who enjoy similar things but who are less invested can still be reached?
I have invested somewhere in the vicinity of 27-28k credits in Alexandria, mostly thanks to retirement credits. There are still many things I want, many things I could use those credits for. It's just not worth actively working towards it most of the time because I could be doing more engaging things instead.
It really leaves a bad taste in my mouth to miss out on all those credits every day. But I also recognise that me actively trying to do things I don't enjoy regularly is going to kill my desire to log in and do anything. So I just let it slide and try not to get frustrated.
That's cool too, I was mostly just thinking that some of the comments indicated that some people just might not care about daily credits and as long as they're playing that's fine.
But still trying to reward their typical activities is good because there's going to be other people who will want to get their daily credits for them, for example yourself it seems and I know I likely would too. (I took like... a decade to hit demi cause I just couldn't stand grinding lol)
Also in case it was miscommunicated by invested I meant like... people that are playing the 2+ hours a day more rather than credit investment.
Is our goal to get players to be around for 2 hours, with 20 credits as the carrot in front of their nose?
If a motivated player can get their carrot in an hour, that's not something to balance around. That's an outlier. Most people don't max their credits every day except for on the weekends, I know I don't.
Her voice firm and commanding, Terentia, the Even Bladed says to you, "You have kept your oath to Me, Parhelion. You have sworn to maintain Justice in these troubled times."
Yet if a boon be granted me, unworthy as I am, let it be for a steady hand with a clear eye and a fury most inflaming.
Is our goal to get players to be around for 2 hours, with 20 credits as the carrot in front of their nose?
If a motivated player can get their carrot in an hour, that's not something to balance around. That's an outlier. Most people don't max their credits every day except for on the weekends, I know I don't.
I have so far only missed it twice I think (both times at 16/20?). Up until now I have enjoyed it actually, because it has not been too much of a grind and I can use it as an excuse to work on family honour income if I make myself get 1/2 bashing ticks a day.
I do think it is pretty clear by now that this thread has me reconsidering things, though.
Edit: The above is clearly written from the standpoint of someone who can get 1/2 bashing ticks in a reasonable time frame.
As I'm holding out hope that there's actually some intent to balance things around the average demigod, I think it might be helpful to figure out what the hypothetical 'average demigod' would be like so they can be used as a measuring stick for difficulty. What are their celerity and movement artifacts like? What kind of scripts and knowledge is it expected for them to have? What are their bashing/influencing artifacts and buffs?
Here's another good one to ask: Are you balancing around a person who is doing the quest in the prescribed manner (going and doing things in the order asked, one step at a time, trying to puzzle it out) or around the speedrunners who gather everything ahead of time and just turn it all in at once because they've done it a hundred times?
Is it worth considering also that every player is going to get faster at collecting their daily credits as they spend their daily credits on artifacts that make them faster at collecting their daily credits?
ETA: @Orael I'm sorry if this feels like a pile-on. I'm still a big fan.
Definitely strange to see there's any kind of issue with daily credits at all. I rarely do all 20, but when I do, it's just by raising and draining Orrery. 7 from quest, 13 from bashing. It takes a while, but it's easy so I'm not complaining. On alts, I've thoroughly enjoyed doing it through questing because that barely takes time at all, but of course I have to do more than 'link node;sm add repeat point gnomeweapon @target'.
Dunno, I don't buy into most of the issues here. Daily credits are fine, let's move on?
I just think if there's systems that can justifiably reward dailycredits, they should. But I guess a lot of the things that do give dc's arent usually rewarded by orgs, and a lot that of other stuff is, so it breaks even.
As far as quests go, since they're a low priority anyway, I think it would be a better use of admin time to add more quests to the quest system, rather than looking at what's already there and going "xenthos can get 11 credits in 2 minutes, time to nerf".
I think another thing might be looking at scholars/bards/pilgrims and seeing if there's any way to change that somehow. They're not only for daily credits, but also the daily achievements, there's a finite amount of them, they give power and culture, they're super easy to collect even without dogs, and there's literally no reason to not get all of them in a run except to be nice to other people who might otherwise lose their streaks. These guys are loaded, and depending on when you play, it can be impossible to find any. Otherwise it would be a great and easy way for newbies to get exp/gold/dailycredits. Not sure what a solution would be there, though.
Don't worry about the pile-on. I asked for feedback and I sure got it.
It's made me reconsider some things and we'll definitely be talking over some points as mentioned. Again, I'm all ears for adding ticks for participation, the trick is being able to reasonably track and reward it.
I've put in a few of the changes mentioned in this thread.
- Added another hunting tick at 250 points. - reduced the needed points for influencing ticks by half and added a tick at 125 - Reduced Aetherhunting ticks to 50, 100, 200 and every 200 after that.
They were the easy, low-hanging fruit changes. As mentioned, if there's ideas for other ways to encourage participation through daily credits, we're all ears.
Here are some things I've thought about over the last couple of days:
Are guild leader artifacts still a thing? Would be cool to allow guild leaders to reward participation in guild or city/commune stuff with an extra daily credit tick. Usable a limited amount of times a year.
Completing Guild tasks, or ranking up in a guild or city/commune could give a tick too? (Takes some preparation / conversations to complete)
Perhaps spending time in wargames, or free for alls (Encourage some practice, with guaranteed fighting)
Playing Vengeance with a group of folks
Being an actor in a play recording that is a requisite amount of time
I miss guild Artis and would love them back (Black Shuck, where are you.....), But some of those are covered by org credits. Or at least, what org credits could be used for.
I asked for the Inveiglora as a guild quest reward but was rejected. I'd guess it'd be another thing to balance around so fair enough. Hmm, maybe I should try again as a non-combat pet.
Here is what you've done today: Hunted 50 aethercreatures. - 1 credit Hunted 100 aethercreatures. - 1 credit
Also, isn't aetherflare participation supposed to award dailies? We didn't get nothin' for claiming two bubbles this morning.
aetherhunting is 1 credit per X creatures.
aetherflare is a tick for everyone locked into a module when a bombard finishes (if you aren't locked in, or if your bombard doesn't finish, you get nothing) or 5 mins of focusing on a construct.
I'm glad aetherhunting is a little easier to hit ticks on than before, but would it be possible to move it to the same tracker that follows bashing/influencing/recognize/etc, for 5/4/3/2/1 credits?
Amazing beautiful stunning avatar by Gurashi! ~ A gentle breeze ruffles your wings and whispers in your ears, as if for you alone, "Dragonfly's words shine... seeds, sown and tended, inspire... a forest harvest." ~ Maylea reaches out, Her fingers poised in midair. "Now you are of Me, even more than you were before." Her golden and azure eyes glitter. "Walk well, Eldin. Shed glory in My name, and bring life to the lifeless."
Comments
~
A gentle breeze ruffles your wings and whispers in your ears, as if for you alone, "Dragonfly's words shine... seeds, sown and tended, inspire... a forest harvest."
~
Maylea reaches out, Her fingers poised in midair. "Now you are of Me, even more than you were before." Her golden and azure eyes glitter. "Walk well, Eldin. Shed glory in My name, and bring life to the lifeless."
I can see where it would be awesome for us to get to have more free credits easier, and I overall think daily credits are a huge boon that could do with some tweaking (aetherbashing!). You already can get credits pretty easily depending on your city and how they run rewarding activities too though!
When I've got the time and am busy doing the stage/library thing, for example, I easily make 200+ credits an IG year. From what we've seen posted from Hallifax, it sounds like they reward people similarly well (if not better!). I don't remember my best IG year, but I'm sure it was over 300cr to be honest, which comes to more than 20cr a day during that year long period.
Maybe if people are feeling a lot of pain around the roleplay side of things and daily credits, our city councils can take another look at their rewards for citizens too? That's a bit of a tangent, but that's something that's at least relatively in our control. And if they won't relook at rewards, you can come join Serenwilde or Hallifax!
~
A gentle breeze ruffles your wings and whispers in your ears, as if for you alone, "Dragonfly's words shine... seeds, sown and tended, inspire... a forest harvest."
~
Maylea reaches out, Her fingers poised in midair. "Now you are of Me, even more than you were before." Her golden and azure eyes glitter. "Walk well, Eldin. Shed glory in My name, and bring life to the lifeless."
But also the system should still aim to reward them so the people who enjoy similar things but who are less invested can still be reached?
It really leaves a bad taste in my mouth to miss out on all those credits every day. But I also recognise that me actively trying to do things I don't enjoy regularly is going to kill my desire to log in and do anything. So I just let it slide and try not to get frustrated.
Czixi, the Welkin murmurs, "Fight on, My Effervescent Sylph. I will be with you as you do."
Aian Lerit'r, Lead Schematicist exclaims to you, "A *paperwork* emergency, Chairman!
But still trying to reward their typical activities is good because there's going to be other people who will want to get their daily credits for them, for example yourself it seems and I know I likely would too. (I took like... a decade to hit demi cause I just couldn't stand grinding lol)
Also in case it was miscommunicated by invested I meant like... people that are playing the 2+ hours a day more rather than credit investment.
If a motivated player can get their carrot in an hour, that's not something to balance around. That's an outlier. Most people don't max their credits every day except for on the weekends, I know I don't.
ETA: @Orael I'm sorry if this feels like a pile-on. I'm still a big fan.
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
Dunno, I don't buy into most of the issues here. Daily credits are fine, let's move on?
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
It's made me reconsider some things and we'll definitely be talking over some points as mentioned. Again, I'm all ears for adding ticks for participation, the trick is being able to reasonably track and reward it.
- Added another hunting tick at 250 points.
- reduced the needed points for influencing ticks by half and added a tick at 125
- Reduced Aetherhunting ticks to 50, 100, 200 and every 200 after that.
They were the easy, low-hanging fruit changes. As mentioned, if there's ideas for other ways to encourage participation through daily credits, we're all ears.
Here are some things I've thought about over the last couple of days:
The extra ticks for things are cool, thanks!
Here is what you've done today:
Hunted 50 aethercreatures. - 1 credit
Hunted 100 aethercreatures. - 1 credit
Also, isn't aetherflare participation supposed to award dailies? We didn't get nothin' for claiming two bubbles this morning.
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
~
A gentle breeze ruffles your wings and whispers in your ears, as if for you alone, "Dragonfly's words shine... seeds, sown and tended, inspire... a forest harvest."
~
Maylea reaches out, Her fingers poised in midair. "Now you are of Me, even more than you were before." Her golden and azure eyes glitter. "Walk well, Eldin. Shed glory in My name, and bring life to the lifeless."