That's a change of tune, Xenthos. Not to mention that it was a racial trait like previously discussed. Either way, not sure why noses and scent keep getting brought up, it's not a contested point, and a very select minority of the playerbase has an issue with them.
I still haven't seen something indicating that it was actually a racial. I wasn't able to find it existing. I'd really like to know where the heck it comes from.
Also, it's not a change of tune. I believe it changed things quite considerably when it went main-stream, but that wasn't the reasoning behind making them an artifact in the first place. Both can be true (it wouldn't be the first time players took and used something above and beyond the original intent).
Edit: I've edited out the word "proof" because that makes it seem like I'm calling you a liar, which isn't my intent. It's just something that I don't remember being a thing at all, and I've gone hunting for it; I can't find anything except envoy reports (which were rejected) asking for it to be added, and a request that it be part of the racial overhaul that also appears to have been rejected. I'd really like to see where and when it actually went live.
The actual mandatory artifact is Map, which I understand will allow you to have a chance at chasing even in places like Facility and Dramube. Also in Mirage'd Pyromelds.
I'm all for deleting any artifacts and enchantments that allow someone to use skills from someone else's skillset. All of them.
You're an absolute madman, but I kind of almost like it.
I'm actually being facetious, but I appreciate the compliment
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
I'm all for deleting any artifacts and enchantments that allow someone to use skills from someone else's skillset. All of them.
This, but unironically. Classes should have unique abilities to fill the required niches in unique ways. Truely general methods should be available not as a clone of a class skill, but as a general skill (or enchant that's not a clone of a class skill).
I'm all for deleting any artifacts and enchantments that allow someone to use skills from someone else's skillset. All of them.
This, but unironically. Classes should have unique abilities to fill the required niches in unique ways. Truely general methods should be available not as a clone of a class skill, but as a general skill (or enchant that's not a clone of a class skill).
@shaddus I disagreed because chasing and pinning are not one in the same. A nose will never ever help you pin someone down. It has nothing to do with Maligorn because he is irrelevant since he doesn't even play. It was simply the fact that he claimed nose assists in pinning someone. And being able to chase is not reliant solely on nose. As previously explained by Taken. If you are still confused try rereading the thread or having someone else explain it.
Putting a smiley face at the end of a condescending remark doesn't actually make it less condescending. You people need to be nicer to each other. This is supposed to be about making the game a batter place.
Do any artifacts affect ease of capturing villages? Cause I just saw in the last revolt, all five villages were captured by Gaudiguch and Glomdoring, including the two dwarf villages (who the helpfile says are hostile to each other) both being captured by the same city. This seems a bit odd to me, how do you get opposing villages so quickly?
Putting a smiley face at the end of a condescending remark doesn't actually make it less condescending. You people need to be nicer to each other. This is supposed to be about making the game a batter place.
Do any artifacts affect ease of capturing villages? Cause I just saw in the last revolt, all five villages were captured by Gaudiguch and Glomdoring, including the two dwarf villages (who the helpfile says are hostile to each other) both being captured by the same city. This seems a bit odd to me, how do you get opposing villages so quickly?
Village revolts have the issue of when they pop. Population seems to be the biggest factor. A city rank 1 sitting on important NPCs watching for them to shuffle goes a long way. Of course, all debating Artis would assist as well as utility (travel).
Putting a smiley face at the end of a condescending remark doesn't actually make it less condescending. You people need to be nicer to each other. This is supposed to be about making the game a batter place.
Do any artifacts affect ease of capturing villages? Cause I just saw in the last revolt, all five villages were captured by Gaudiguch and Glomdoring, including the two dwarf villages (who the helpfile says are hostile to each other) both being captured by the same city. This seems a bit odd to me, how do you get opposing villages so quickly?
Five people and a can do attitude!
Still took the best part of 30-40 minutes and was by no means quick
I think that we owned both of them before the revolt too would have helped
When you don't have scent like tool you just move around and follow the target as they move. To some extent you have to read the map and do a bit of ground work.
Could you explain what you mean by 'move around and follow the target as they move' and 'do a bit of ground work'? Because it sounds like you're saying 'wander randomly in the hopes you bump into them'.
Sort of to put it in a simple way. Its sort of how we can catch people on places like facility and drambue solo as well. You know the maps and you know what way people can run. Most of our bubbles are a pretty good example of it. So your chasing someone and your throwing out slowing effects on them like rubble tarot, broken limbs, stuff like the woods/chems slow movement stuff etc to slow the target from moving. You follow them along the path they are going, if they get ahead of you you have to use vision skills like squint to narrow down the ways you follow them. Like lets say you get to a fork north or east you squint both ways and see they got ahead of you north and keep following that way. If they managed to get really far ahead of you then you need to make a judgement call and rush down one path and if that doesnt work try the other.
If they manage to get really really really far ahead of you and lose you either you've lost them or you need to fall back on allies to help you. Having 1 ally scry and call the target while the rest chases is the sort of end plan if nothing else is working.
So without a functioning nose there are lots of options its just people rely on their artifacts so much they never really needed to come up with any alternative plans.
I think the main issue with noses is this is an artifact review for artifacts that heavily impact the game.
I can't think of any other artifact than the nose that effects the meta of the game so much. I totally get the push back in that people are so used to having these artifacts that they don't want to see them gone but if we are having a fair review of impactful artifacts then the nose is high on that list and worth talking about.
It has nothing to do with Maligorn because he is irrelevant since he doesn't even play.
Who told you I don't play?
I know this may be a shock, but when population is so low and the game is suffering - having to go free to play, even - you don't ask the opinion of the people who are content enough to remain. You ask the opinion of people who left to provide input so you can improve the game such that it will appeal to a wider audience again, and listen to their concerns.
Imagine if the admin only listened to people that logged in and participated on the regular. The people who are currently happy with the way things are would just keep the status quo (Glomdoring). The last few naysayers would be pushed out, until Glomdoring finishes its chokehold on the game. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It HAS been talked about. It seemed like there was a strong concensus on:
"Yeah this is a 'problem' but meaningfully changing it would require massive other system and skill changes so there are better fish to fry".
It's too entangled with game balance. I would love a less binary escape meta, with more dynamic meta and more unique class tools to keep enemies in range and manage moderate ranges. The existing balance just can't support it without major sweeping changes. It would greatly exacerbate the problems of death rooms and fortressing.
Real, nonhyperbolic prediction: start taking swings at truely staple utilities like scent without putting in groundwork first and A) said groundwork will never be done because combat in any meaningful sense will die for good.
Note: I have totems, no skin in defending nose. I also have a clear stance that i believe classes should have unique abilities and tactics: if i thought it was feasable to remove, Id be all for it.
The people who are currently happy with the way things are would just keep the status quo (Glomdoring). The last few naysayers would be pushed out, until Glomdoring finishes its chokehold on the game.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Please stop being so toxic.
Please take your own advice. I am in Glomdoring, and I think it is pretty obvious that I care about the game and making it easier for players to get into things; I have spent a considerable amount of time on suggesting changes (including a ton of QoL stuff), so I don't see how this kind of comment is in any way productive.
This is a review of current artifact/curio problems. The people calling for scent to be changed have yet to explain why it is a problem? How does scent hurt the game? Why do we need to change scent?
The people who are currently happy with the way things are would just keep the status quo (Glomdoring). The last few naysayers would be pushed out, until Glomdoring finishes its chokehold on the game.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Please stop being so toxic.
Please take your own advice. I am in Glomdoring, and I think it is pretty obvious that I care about the game and making it easier for players to get into things; I have spent a considerable amount of time on suggesting changes (including a ton of QoL stuff), so I don't see how this kind of comment is in any way productive.
Hey, I'd be more specific, but I don't want to get accused of "personal attacks" again.
It's not toxicity; it's just a fact. People have and are continuing to leave the game because of certain extremely dishonest players in Glomdoring. I've witnessed it. It's just not sustainable anymore to lose people. I'm sorry if feeling exposed or targeted makes you uncomfortable - maybe you, Xenthos, could afford to be a positive influence on your fellows!
But admin can't patch out dishonesty, or sell integrity packs on the ashop. So we'll just have to do with modifying broken artifacts.
Post #2 in this thread has my view on that. I mean, it is literally the first reply here. And all the replies since then discussing the subject just seem to prove the point as to how "required" people feel it to be.
I would be happy if it had a 1-2s eq cost (add the same to the skill itself in Totems/Transmology, fine by me). And the amount of pushback even that gets is telling.
The people who are currently happy with the way things are would just keep the status quo (Glomdoring). The last few naysayers would be pushed out, until Glomdoring finishes its chokehold on the game.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Please stop being so toxic.
Please take your own advice. I am in Glomdoring, and I think it is pretty obvious that I care about the game and making it easier for players to get into things; I have spent a considerable amount of time on suggesting changes (including a ton of QoL stuff), so I don't see how this kind of comment is in any way productive.
Hey, I'd be more specific, but I don't want to get accused of "personal attacks" again.
It's not toxicity; it's just a fact. People have and are continuing to leave the game because of certain extremely dishonest players in Glomdoring. I've witnessed it. It's just not sustainable anymore to lose people. I'm sorry if feeling exposed or targeted makes you uncomfortable - maybe you, Xenthos, could afford to be a positive influence on your fellows!
But admin can't patch out dishonesty, or sell integrity packs on the ashop. So we'll just have to do with modifying broken artifacts.
Look, you were called "irrelevant." I actually agree that it is not productive to do that either, but you then chose to escalate it by explicitly calling her toxic, and then inferring that all of Glomdoring is too because they "don't want to see any change and want to strangle the game".
If you can't make an argument without attacking an entire organization, I just don't know what you're expecting. You are flat out /diverting the topic to make it an org v. org debate and bury everything else, raising hackles and increasing ire.
Again, how is that productive? How is your reply here productive? It adds nothing at all to improving anything, it is simply an attempt to put down people you don't like.
Post #2 in this thread has my view on that. I mean, it is literally the first reply here. And all the replies since then discussing the subject just seem to prove the point as to how "required" people feel it to be.
I would be happy if it had a 1-2s eq cost (add the same to the skill itself in Totems/Transmology, fine by me). And the amount of pushback even that gets is telling.
You stated it should? Why? Because you say? I am saying that isn't good enough. Current game is easy to tumble or somersault and run. Scent is the only close counter to that. I am sure pincharge would not benefit from removal of scent. Why does scent not having balance cause an issue?
The people who are currently happy with the way things are would just keep the status quo (Glomdoring). The last few naysayers would be pushed out, until Glomdoring finishes its chokehold on the game.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Please stop being so toxic.
Please take your own advice. I am in Glomdoring, and I think it is pretty obvious that I care about the game and making it easier for players to get into things; I have spent a considerable amount of time on suggesting changes (including a ton of QoL stuff), so I don't see how this kind of comment is in any way productive.
Hey, I'd be more specific, but I don't want to get accused of "personal attacks" again.
It's not toxicity; it's just a fact. People have and are continuing to leave the game because of certain extremely dishonest players in Glomdoring. I've witnessed it. It's just not sustainable anymore to lose people. I'm sorry if feeling exposed or targeted makes you uncomfortable - maybe you, Xenthos, could afford to be a positive influence on your fellows!
But admin can't patch out dishonesty, or sell integrity packs on the ashop. So we'll just have to do with modifying broken artifacts.
Look, you were called "irrelevant." I actually agree that it is not productive to do that either, but you then chose to escalate it by explicitly calling her toxic, and then inferring that all of Glomdoring is too because they "don't want to see any change and want to strangle the game".
If you can't make an argument without attacking an entire organization, I just don't know what you're expecting. You are flat out /diverting the topic to make it an org v. org debate and bury everything else, raising hackles and increasing ire.
Again, how is that productive? How is your reply here productive? It adds nothing at all to improving anything, it is simply an attempt to put down people you don't like.
I get it, Xenthos. I forgot that people that aren't from Glomdoring aren't allowed to defend themselves. My bad dude. You keep doing you.
This is a review of current artifact/curio problems. The people calling for scent to be changed have yet to explain why it is a problem? How does scent hurt the game? Why do we need to change scent?
We went though the reasons for it a fair bit. Not sure what your asking?
This is a review of current artifact/curio problems. The people calling for scent to be changed have yet to explain why it is a problem? How does scent hurt the game? Why do we need to change scent?
We went though the reasons for it a fair bit. Not sure what your asking?
Why do you think scent needs removed or changed?
Edit: I have seen several reasons why not to. I have yet to see any "reasons" why we "should".
This is a review of current artifact/curio problems. The people calling for scent to be changed have yet to explain why it is a problem? How does scent hurt the game? Why do we need to change scent?
We went though the reasons for it a fair bit. Not sure what your asking?
Why do you think scent needs removed or changed?
Oh sorry I thought we'd covered that.
To sort of summarise the past posts then it gives instant tracking to classes that don't normally have it. Classes who's main counter is to run from for a short length of time have scent and path tracking to instant walk to people. It makes chasing a press of a button. If you go back over the thread people went into it in more detail but thats the sort of tldr version.
EDIT: Sort of how illusoryself gives tankyness to classes that may not have had it before. Brazier gave classes the ability to break melds that didn't have it before. Noses give classes instant track that didn't have it before as a rough compare. I know its not a direct equal but thats the sort of quick jist of it.
This is a review of current artifact/curio problems. The people calling for scent to be changed have yet to explain why it is a problem? How does scent hurt the game? Why do we need to change scent?
We went though the reasons for it a fair bit. Not sure what your asking?
Why do you think scent needs removed or changed?
Oh sorry I thought we'd covered that.
To sort of summarise the past posts then it gives instant tracking to classes that don't normally have it. Classes who's main counter is to run from for a short length of time have scent and path tracking to instant walk to people. It makes chasing a press of a button. If you go back over the thread people went into it in more detail but thats the sort of tldr version.
Running is a press of the button as well.
Edit: So one class can run and still will be ahead even when scent chased. If you like we can test it? You are one of the best combatants in the game. I am not even a demigod. I bet you struggle locking me down.
Comments
Do any artifacts affect ease of capturing villages? Cause I just saw in the last revolt, all five villages were captured by Gaudiguch and Glomdoring, including the two dwarf villages (who the helpfile says are hostile to each other) both being captured by the same city. This seems a bit odd to me, how do you get opposing villages so quickly?
Village revolts have the issue of when they pop. Population seems to be the biggest factor. A city rank 1 sitting on important NPCs watching for them to shuffle goes a long way. Of course, all debating Artis would assist as well as utility (travel).
Still took the best part of 30-40 minutes and was by no means quick
I think that we owned both of them before the revolt too would have helped
Sort of to put it in a simple way. Its sort of how we can catch people on places like facility and drambue solo as well. You know the maps and you know what way people can run. Most of our bubbles are a pretty good example of it. So your chasing someone and your throwing out slowing effects on them like rubble tarot, broken limbs, stuff like the woods/chems slow movement stuff etc to slow the target from moving. You follow them along the path they are going, if they get ahead of you you have to use vision skills like squint to narrow down the ways you follow them. Like lets say you get to a fork north or east you squint both ways and see they got ahead of you north and keep following that way. If they managed to get really far ahead of you then you need to make a judgement call and rush down one path and if that doesnt work try the other.
If they manage to get really really really far ahead of you and lose you either you've lost them or you need to fall back on allies to help you. Having 1 ally scry and call the target while the rest chases is the sort of end plan if nothing else is working.
So without a functioning nose there are lots of options its just people rely on their artifacts so much they never really needed to come up with any alternative plans.
I can't think of any other artifact than the nose that effects the meta of the game so much. I totally get the push back in that people are so used to having these artifacts that they don't want to see them gone but if we are having a fair review of impactful artifacts then the nose is high on that list and worth talking about.
"Yeah this is a 'problem' but meaningfully changing it would require massive other system and skill changes so there are better fish to fry".
It's too entangled with game balance. I would love a less binary escape meta, with more dynamic meta and more unique class tools to keep enemies in range and manage moderate ranges. The existing balance just can't support it without major sweeping changes. It would greatly exacerbate the problems of death rooms and fortressing.
Real, nonhyperbolic prediction: start taking swings at truely staple utilities like scent without putting in groundwork first and A) said groundwork will never be done because
Note: I have totems, no skin in defending nose. I also have a clear stance that i believe classes should have unique abilities and tactics: if i thought it was feasable to remove, Id be all for it.
Or its not considered vital and in that case get rid of the artifact and leave scent as a class skill.
We went though the reasons for it a fair bit. Not sure what your asking?
Edit: I have seen several reasons why not to. I have yet to see any "reasons" why we "should".
Oh sorry I thought we'd covered that.
To sort of summarise the past posts then it gives instant tracking to classes that don't normally have it. Classes who's main counter is to run from for a short length of time have scent and path tracking to instant walk to people. It makes chasing a press of a button. If you go back over the thread people went into it in more detail but thats the sort of tldr version.
EDIT: Sort of how illusoryself gives tankyness to classes that may not have had it before. Brazier gave classes the ability to break melds that didn't have it before. Noses give classes instant track that didn't have it before as a rough compare. I know its not a direct equal but thats the sort of quick jist of it.
Running is a press of the button as well.
Edit: So one class can run and still will be ahead even when scent chased. If you like we can test it? You are one of the best combatants in the game. I am not even a demigod. I bet you struggle locking me down.