Eh. In that case we do push Silvanus. But if Portius isn't compelling I say we let the lynch speak for itself. Even if he is compelling I'm probably more inclined to trust Silvanus saying "I have investigative know how" than Portius saying "Silvanus is a wacko" at this moment in time.
But Silvanus has explicitly said that he doesn't have investigative know how. He then went on to kind of imply that he does, admittedly, but also to just claim survivor. Which seems contradictory. I generally take inconsistent claims as a warning sign, but he's been consistently vague enough that I was willing to take it as a sign of me misunderstanding him.
Gonna be honest with you guys, it's starting to look like the Ushaara Gambit. Which is fair, since he's had a few chances to see just how well that can work.
But if you guys want me to claim, I can do that. For ease of reading, my powers are in italics, and anything I inferred about the game from them is not.
I am the Chief of the Sun Warriors.
I explicitly investigate as a firebender. I initially took that to mean a miller power, but then I realized that there were actually a decent number of good aligned firebenders in the show, so it's only sort of millery, in that I'm guessing that Zuko, Iroh, and maybe a few others are also here as town firebenders.
I think that rule implies the presence of a bender type investigator. I was initially reading Silvanus as that, but he has since claimed not to be an investigator, so who knows.
Second, I have a partial kill immunity. I am going to be slightly vague about it in an effort to keep it useful, but this should be specific enough for claiming purposes. I am immune to one of fire or lightning bending, and I am explicitly not immune to the other.
That probably implies that the fire nation can kill with both. Possibly instead that the fire nation is always a lightning kill and that we have a firebender vigilante, though. I wouldn't be surprised if someone had the same power, but with the immunity and vulnerability switched.
Finally, my actual active power. I remove arson prep.
Naturally, this implies the presence of an arsonist. The fluff says that they will not die when Sozin's Comet comes, which might imply that the kills trigger on a specific turn (since it's a specific time in the story) or that it's just fluff for activating the kill. I don't know know which. The fluff justification for me being able to remove the prep is that I uniquely have pure, life-giving fire bending in the ancient tradition that can balance out the impact of the hateful sort of bending that the fire nation uses.
Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
Not going to lie, I initially thought Falaeron's lie detecting stuff was a super ballsy arson prep. Now that I know there is a removal skill, that thought is returning to lurk in the back of my mind.
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
I don't buy this. That would mean we could potentially have 3 Firebender millers, of which Sun Warrior guy is least likely to be in play. Claiming firefighter is a great move but I don't believe it, sorry.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
I don't buy this. That would mean we could potentially have 3 Firebender millers, of which Sun Warrior guy is least likely to be in play. Claiming firefighter is a great move but I don't believe it, sorry.
Possibly also Aang, depending on the stage of the story we're at. Or Jeong Jeong. Possibly even the dragons, if they're in here. I don't think it's actually as much of a miller thing as it looks, just on the sheer number of good firebenders that could be in here.
Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
0
SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
It just reads as a fake claim to me. If we had 25 roles instead of 16 maybe I could see it. But you're suggesting an investigative power that is so limited that it could misread a third of the town as evil because we could have that many Firebenders in play. I'm betting that is unlikely.
Also you confirmed you are a Firebender which means Silvanus isn't full of crap to call you out on it.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
@Shaddus, @Lehki - 3rd party dudes, are you guys firebenders too? Maybe there are a decent amount of them, which means Silvanus' not-investigation really isn't an absolute investigation but instead just one facet of extra information.
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
And then when I out myself, you can see those rushing to defend again. Portius's wins with the Fire Nation, you do not need a lie detector to be convinced of a Day two reveal by someone who has investigative powers that doesn't read the role sheet.
He doesn't say "I see that Portius is a Firebender." @Silvanus says "Portius wins with the Fire Nation." That's a completely different claim than @Lehki and @Shaddus have made.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Right, but I'm suggesting maybe what he saw is that Portius is a firebender and assumed he wins with fire nation. Silvanus is saying he's not an investigator...but giving investigator-like results and expecting us to trust those. I don't necessarily distrust HIM (if he's lying, it will become apparent quickly), but I'm wondering if maybe he is making assumptions based on info he got.
1
SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
It just reads as a fake claim to me. If we had 25 roles instead of 16 maybe I could see it. But you're suggesting an investigative power that is so limited that it could misread a third of the town as evil because we could have that many Firebenders in play. I'm betting that is unlikely.
Also you confirmed you are a Firebender which means Silvanus isn't full of crap to call you out on it.
I don't think it's as unlikely as you think. Consider the following:
We know beyond reasonable doubt that we have a lie detector. That's a very powerful investigative ability, but it's limiting factor is being hard to target. There are a lot of people, and a lot of statements to check. A bending investigator narrows that down. He can call out firebenders, make them say that they aren't scum, and Fal can check it. It's not sure to hit a scum, but it narrows down the pool a lot. Since Air/Earth/Water benders aren't likely to be scum, he can call out those targets to mark them as less valuable for lie detection.
So if both are known, they get a decently large power boost from synergy. On the other hand, a doctor can't protect both. So they also become more exposed, which gives the scum counterplay to that synergy and helps to prevent just following the investigator. That's good design.
On Silvanus and being full of crap: That would be true if he was claiming an investigative role, but he claimed to be a survivor. If he had based it on an investigation, I wouldn't be saying it was an unreasonable conclusion. As it is, it seems more like he took a psuedo-educated guess and is pushing it really hard.
And then when I out myself, you can see those rushing to defend again. Portius's wins with the Fire Nation, you do not need a lie detector to be convinced of a Day two reveal by someone who has investigative powers that doesn't read the role sheet.
He doesn't say "I see that Portius is a Firebender." @Silvanus says "Portius wins with the Fire Nation." That's a completely different claim than @Lehki and @Shaddus have made.
Not exactly true. On page 13, Lehki claims to start aligned with the fire nation, not as a third party. Shaddus did claim third party, though.
Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
Can you quote the posts you're referencing where Silvanus says he's third party and where Lehki says he's mafia-aligned temporarily?
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
I'm only technically lieing in the moment because I have a similar set up to what Shaddus claims. I start aligned with the fire nation but then a few days in switch to team avatar. It's why I was inclined to believe him and was offering an explination for his set up, because it was an explanation for my own. Did not it was going to come up this soon though. I was attempting what I thought was the smart move and just laying low until I switched but can see how that worked out.
I don't feel the need to reveal any further than that yet, unless more votes start coming in.
I wanted to get that info out there because I've been feeling under the weather and didn't want to fall asleep for 12 hours to find Lehki lynched and my weird play on portius painting a target on me, thus killing me.
I am not your investigator, I am not even town. Just a survivor.
Emphasis mine once again.
Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
I'm not aligned with the Fire Nation, but I'm a survivor, so if they win, I win as well.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
I'll clarify on my alignment a little bit. Days 1&2 I count as fire nation for all purposes, on day 3 I'm a survivor. Day 4 and on I'm team avatar.
I would also like Silvanus to clarify a little if Portius argument holds true about him just detecting bending type. My issue with the Sun Warrior Chief is the same I had with Yue. He's definitely a plot central character, but one that's in only 1 episode.
Actually thinking on it further Portius saying that he explicitly investigates as a Firebender seems off to me because my role made no mention of what kind of bender I read as, but my alignment switch is definitely a type of temporary miller status and I got no mention of investigation or lie detection. I'm not sure how much to read into that inconsistency.
I might be missing something but I don't know when we decided that Falaeron is 100% trust-worthy. I'm also not sure why Silvanus' info is something we need to act on this day phase. I'd rather lynch Lehki now, testing out Falaeron's power, and then deal with Silvanus/Portius.
I'm not sure what more you want from Falaeron beyond him visibly using his power on two of us and both of us saying we got flavour appropriate to his claim. Third time lucky, maybe?
You know, I buy Portius' claim. My own power is ridiculously strong because of my night immunity. It actually makes sense to me that there are a lot of people who don't necessarily have a power to directly counter my lie detection, but have a role that makes my reports a little less reliable.
So you believe the crazy role that includes an anti-arson prep even though we have been given no hinting at any kind of arson prep to begin with? With a partial kill immunity AND a miller role...
over a tracker.
I am June. My cat Nyla tracked Portius to a Firebender Tent, there is no doubt in my mind that Portius wins with the Fire Nation. That is made clear to me.
You can believe the tracker who outed themselves on day two, or you can believe someone's absolutely ridiculous claim which is basically mirroring their ridiculous claim from the previous game.
My vote will remain on Portius as I have been saying all day. The grasping at straws on Portius was hoping that more people would be able to read through the lines and notice things like me saying "Going into Day two, you can have people with inside information," or, "In day two, town at least has some knowledge they can go forward on as opposed to day 1 with none."
I have been consistent in the beginning since finding out that Portius is a member of the Fire Nation.
What kind of Mafia member would 1v1 trade themselves on Day Two? What kind of strategy thinking is that? I have been the entire push to lynch Portius today, Portius revealed after my information, what kind of Mafia member would start Day two revealing information to get a town member lynched, when if they are wrong they in turn get lynched or vigged that night?
Portius is a member of the Fire Nation and I staked my life on it. So you want to lynch me instead of testing it?
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
I might be missing something but I don't know when we decided that Falaeron is 100% trust-worthy. I'm also not sure why Silvanus' info is something we need to act on this day phase. I'd rather lynch Lehki now, testing out Falaeron's power, and then deal with Silvanus/Portius.
I don't know that he's trustworthy, but he's obviously an earthbender, and he caught Lehki, who did lie about winning with Team Avatar on the day he posted it. Even if he's not Toph, he can tell if someone's lying.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
I don't see any surefire way to prove Falafel outside of lynching Lehki. Lehki's claim is also totally strange. My initial reaction is to wonder why he would make up something so nonsensical. "I win with the mafia for the first two days," just makes so little sense since the game can't end on day 0.
So, to me, he is either....
1) Backed into a corner by being called out by Flareon directly and specifically. He's options were exceptionally limited here. He either calls Flareon a liar (which can only blow up in his face) or he comes up with some explanation as to why he's mafia now, but we shouldn't lynch him. Hence the weird claim, because what else was he going to do?
2) Part of a very confusing game designed with absurdly strong power combinations (see: Flareon), that are balanced only by a spider web of flipping loyalties and power subversions. Such as both Portius and Lehki's claim.
Lynching Portius shows us if #2 is true and will confirm Silvanus to some degree. Though, how much confirmation he needs is questionable, since claiming survivor so early is a voluntary target on his back. Remember previous games, as I'm sure he's aware....when in doubt lynch the third party.
Lynching Silvanus is the safe option. He's third party. No big loss, his reveal wouldn't tell us anything about Portius but it'd advance the day and town would not be any worse off. He needs to die eventually anyways, before he has the chance to stab the town in the back which he will do as required by his role.
Lynching Lehki tells us if #2 is true, which would give some credibility to Portius's claim. It also confirms Flareon and we can better utilize his power to deal with Portius and/or Silvanus.
Based on these options I'm going with what will tell us the most and benefit us the most in the long run.
Vote: Lehki
Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
I should mention there is the chance Silvanus won't stab the town in the back if the town keeps winning as I did as Xenthos. But if this game goes the way of last game, he 100% will.
Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
Except that the third party in those games weren't able to give out information, Ushaara was a useless third party, there is a chance Town doesn't even have an Investigator.
I can confirm that Portius wins with the Fire Nation, that was made extremely clear to me.
Not just is a Firebender or part of the Fire Nation, but specifically win.
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
Right, I believe you for what it is worth, but Lehki and Portius both are claiming to flip allegiances. Lynching one is inevitably going to involve follow up with the other. I don't see how we won't lynch both at this point to be entirely honest, save for a spectacular role reveal.
The difference, for me, is that I am less confident about Flareon than I am about you due to the nature of the claims. So killing Lehki tells us about Flareon. I don't know if killing Portius tells us anything about you.
Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
Comments
But Silvanus has explicitly said that he doesn't have investigative know how. He then went on to kind of imply that he does, admittedly, but also to just claim survivor. Which seems contradictory. I generally take inconsistent claims as a warning sign, but he's been consistently vague enough that I was willing to take it as a sign of me misunderstanding him.
Gonna be honest with you guys, it's starting to look like the Ushaara Gambit. Which is fair, since he's had a few chances to see just how well that can work.
But if you guys want me to claim, I can do that. For ease of reading, my powers are in italics, and anything I inferred about the game from them is not.
I am the Chief of the Sun Warriors.
I explicitly investigate as a firebender. I initially took that to mean a miller power, but then I realized that there were actually a decent number of good aligned firebenders in the show, so it's only sort of millery, in that I'm guessing that Zuko, Iroh, and maybe a few others are also here as town firebenders.
I think that rule implies the presence of a bender type investigator. I was initially reading Silvanus as that, but he has since claimed not to be an investigator, so who knows.
Second, I have a partial kill immunity. I am going to be slightly vague about it in an effort to keep it useful, but this should be specific enough for claiming purposes. I am immune to one of fire or lightning bending, and I am explicitly not immune to the other.
That probably implies that the fire nation can kill with both. Possibly instead that the fire nation is always a lightning kill and that we have a firebender vigilante, though. I wouldn't be surprised if someone had the same power, but with the immunity and vulnerability switched.
Finally, my actual active power. I remove arson prep.
Naturally, this implies the presence of an arsonist. The fluff says that they will not die when Sozin's Comet comes, which might imply that the kills trigger on a specific turn (since it's a specific time in the story) or that it's just fluff for activating the kill. I don't know know which. The fluff justification for me being able to remove the prep is that I uniquely have pure, life-giving fire bending in the ancient tradition that can balance out the impact of the hateful sort of bending that the fire nation uses.
Also you confirmed you are a Firebender which means Silvanus isn't full of crap to call you out on it.
I don't think it's as unlikely as you think. Consider the following:
We know beyond reasonable doubt that we have a lie detector. That's a very powerful investigative ability, but it's limiting factor is being hard to target. There are a lot of people, and a lot of statements to check. A bending investigator narrows that down. He can call out firebenders, make them say that they aren't scum, and Fal can check it. It's not sure to hit a scum, but it narrows down the pool a lot. Since Air/Earth/Water benders aren't likely to be scum, he can call out those targets to mark them as less valuable for lie detection.
So if both are known, they get a decently large power boost from synergy. On the other hand, a doctor can't protect both. So they also become more exposed, which gives the scum counterplay to that synergy and helps to prevent just following the investigator. That's good design.
On Silvanus and being full of crap: That would be true if he was claiming an investigative role, but he claimed to be a survivor. If he had based it on an investigation, I wouldn't be saying it was an unreasonable conclusion. As it is, it seems more like he took a psuedo-educated guess and is pushing it really hard.
Not exactly true. On page 13, Lehki claims to start aligned with the fire nation, not as a third party. Shaddus did claim third party, though.
Emphasis mine.
Emphasis mine once again.
Okay then yes then I'm cool with Silvanus claiming but I'm still pretty sure Portius is the way to go today. I stand by the claim reading as fake.
I would also like Silvanus to clarify a little if Portius argument holds true about him just detecting bending type. My issue with the Sun Warrior Chief is the same I had with Yue. He's definitely a plot central character, but one that's in only 1 episode.
I might be missing something but I don't know when we decided that Falaeron is 100% trust-worthy. I'm also not sure why Silvanus' info is something we need to act on this day phase. I'd rather lynch Lehki now, testing out Falaeron's power, and then deal with Silvanus/Portius.
Unvote. Vote: Silvanus
over a tracker.
I am June. My cat Nyla tracked Portius to a Firebender Tent, there is no doubt in my mind that Portius wins with the Fire Nation. That is made clear to me.
You can believe the tracker who outed themselves on day two, or you can believe someone's absolutely ridiculous claim which is basically mirroring their ridiculous claim from the previous game.
My vote will remain on Portius as I have been saying all day. The grasping at straws on Portius was hoping that more people would be able to read through the lines and notice things like me saying "Going into Day two, you can have people with inside information," or, "In day two, town at least has some knowledge they can go forward on as opposed to day 1 with none."
I have been consistent in the beginning since finding out that Portius is a member of the Fire Nation.
What kind of Mafia member would 1v1 trade themselves on Day Two? What kind of strategy thinking is that? I have been the entire push to lynch Portius today, Portius revealed after my information, what kind of Mafia member would start Day two revealing information to get a town member lynched, when if they are wrong they in turn get lynched or vigged that night?
Portius is a member of the Fire Nation and I staked my life on it. So you want to lynch me instead of testing it?
So, to me, he is either....
1) Backed into a corner by being called out by Flareon directly and specifically. He's options were exceptionally limited here. He either calls Flareon a liar (which can only blow up in his face) or he comes up with some explanation as to why he's mafia now, but we shouldn't lynch him. Hence the weird claim, because what else was he going to do?
2) Part of a very confusing game designed with absurdly strong power combinations (see: Flareon), that are balanced only by a spider web of flipping loyalties and power subversions. Such as both Portius and Lehki's claim.
Lynching Portius shows us if #2 is true and will confirm Silvanus to some degree. Though, how much confirmation he needs is questionable, since claiming survivor so early is a voluntary target on his back. Remember previous games, as I'm sure he's aware....when in doubt lynch the third party.
Lynching Silvanus is the safe option. He's third party. No big loss, his reveal wouldn't tell us anything about Portius but it'd advance the day and town would not be any worse off. He needs to die eventually anyways, before he has the chance to stab the town in the back which he will do as required by his role.
Lynching Lehki tells us if #2 is true, which would give some credibility to Portius's claim. It also confirms Flareon and we can better utilize his power to deal with Portius and/or Silvanus.
Based on these options I'm going with what will tell us the most and benefit us the most in the long run.
Vote: Lehki
I can confirm that Portius wins with the Fire Nation, that was made extremely clear to me.
Not just is a Firebender or part of the Fire Nation, but specifically win.
The difference, for me, is that I am less confident about Flareon than I am about you due to the nature of the claims. So killing Lehki tells us about Flareon. I don't know if killing Portius tells us anything about you.