Although I do like the concept of stacking mending effects to power Glinshari, I point out that currently we can actively cause three of the four afflictions that increase the power.
Broken limbs can come from treehug, ecology mountain smudge, or shamanism bone.
Faerie Fire is a nature skill, as well as in runes.
Clumsiness is accessible through shamanism bloom.
I'm not sure if I'm missing ways to cause these afflictions. I may be.
The only one of those skills that you can realistically use is bone, given that it does a bunch of broken limbs at once. The rest is pretty meh. Why would you waste a balance doing faeriefire, for example, when you don't need to worry about it until right before the adjuvant fires?
In fact, wildewood druids don't even need to see entangles, which means that all faeriefire is good for is fuel for the glinshari spore.
Flowers are consumed when you use Glinshari. This would let you hit them with faeriefire just as Glinshari hits, if they cured it previously. Damage boost. I'd be more apt to use treehug for the dual damage source.
While the damage might need some slight tweaking (I appreciate it requires afflictions first.) 11k damage is a little ridiculous. (32% blunt/41% magical resistance)
But more importantly, it needs at least a midway line, if not more than one warning line. If you're in blackout you'll never get the original cast message and then it's GG. Especially when the ability can still be cast when knocked prone.
The divine voice
of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations,
Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
I've removed things that had major or compelling arguments against them, and things which were bugs and were fixed.
@Shuyin #2: That would make it more interesting and less trivial to shield right before they hit. However, I'm still concerned that there would be little reason to use anything but the most powerful one at your disposal, the 'killing' one. For 5p a pop to get damage and one or two affs normally supported by a class that can disable curing via octave or aeonlocking, it'd still be very underwhelming.
As to changing the flower effects. I like the idea of focusing on one type of cure, like mending. To me, the mana draining (low as it is) seems really like a tacked on mechanic intended primarily to be of use in groups with wiccans. Personally, I would be fine with swapping out the manabarbs/succumb/ManaDrainFlowers with more afflictions that the wildewood can capitalize on without having to completely rely on someone else for the actual kill.
Assuming that we'll still only have 4 flowers, I looked at the mending affs. At first glance I discarded fractured skull as being too powerful, but.. What about Frac.Skull/Broken Limb/Slickness/SomethingElse ? That would make the effects hinder their target some, at least.
EDIT: Unless they are psionicists, lol.
RE: Branches: I still want to reduce the total number of these effects period. Too many and people will cause a hubub about them being too powerful, while on our end it'll still be devilishly hard to capitalize on.
RACE CHANGES:
+2 con (to 16)
+1 cha (12)
-1 str (16)
+1 dex (10)
-1 fire weakness (2)
-1 elect weakness (0)
=Alter eq cost on Perspective somehow.
=Add eq-less GLANCE GROUND when perspective is in trees.
=Add emotes to the things heard from both elevations.
CLASS SIMPLE / "BUG" FIXES:
=Add an unlink syntax for coppice.
=Remove reagent cost from treehug.
CLASS CHANGES
=Add the ability to use vines in any terrain. This is mostly thematic, but also compensates for the lack of FORESTCAST FOREST or Dryad calling.
=Include something to deal with Elder trees/totems. Totemcarving is preferred, but extending the barkguard ability to elders. It would still at very best be a stopgap measure to cover it until totemcarving, putting the onus for all carving on a percentage of the guild, which should be avoided, I think.
=Add mulching. Read the mulch message and the Wildewood theme and tell me they don't make sense together. Also, see above about shunting all of the work involved onto a portion of the guild. Bound to breed resentment.
=Add a good method of getting people down out of trees as a class skill. I suggest a class version of SHAKE TREES.
=Add in a good second bashing attack. Comparable to the chalice reagent attack is asking a lot (As that ability is INCREDIBLY powerful), but a 100% damage type that isn't commonly resisted would be nice
SPECIFIC SKILLS:
Wildecall-
= Change into a standard, untimer-d 10p defense. Unstrippable, not lost on death.
= Add WILDEWOOD WILDECALL <animal>.
= Drop the delay (currently anywhere from 30-150 seconds depending on timer of def)
RE: adjuvant idea - sounds like your problem is more with the other adjuvants being pretty bad rather than the idea itself. That's where you look into improving them somehow. Personally, I don't think the admin will go for completely deleting that mana tactic since that's part of the initial...design, but that's up to you.
RE: swapping to mending affs - I actually figured fractured skull was gonna be one of the affs, it's not -that- strong since it's actually useful and can help build affs toward your glinshari spore.
RE: wildecall - I'd still prefer my exact version over the one you just put up.
That wildecall is exactly what you put! Changing how often each hits or what type of action it hits on is contained in "= Balance each animal from there. ".
RE: Adjuvants. The thing I'm seeing is that the best way to improving is to make their affs synergize more with the rest of what Wildewoods can do, which has nothing to do with mana drain.
EDIT: I think I was thinking of concussion, not fractured skull.
EDIT2: In the line of thinking on Adjuvants, I hesitate to call something a tactic when it doesn't have much of a goal?
Well, an additional idea would be to either alter glinshari spore to make it partially mana-dependent on the victim (more mana gone = more damage) or make a different adjuvant that does this, probably alter the manabarbs adjuvant.
Branch effects are too unreliable. Branches have a low firing rate, multiple numbers of them can fire, and they only work on damage attacks.
Solution:
a. Reduce the number of branch effects that can fire when they tick
b. Increase how often an individual effect ticks
c. Change the requirement for firing to aggressive actions, not just damage attack.
The end result is less multiple effects firing and a more reliable defensive effect owing to an increased tick chance and more opportunities for it to tick.
I just want to say that this is not a good idea. Branches are NOT defensive. They give affs that are required for their kill method in a way that is uncontrollable for the user (when the target chooses to attack). When they fire, be they firing all at once or only one at a time, there is no damage reduced, no affliction reduced, no wound reduced. All effects go through. Except for combo users, who can have part of their attack negated. If you want them to be "defensive", make them fire BEFORE the attack and stop it if it fires. Otherwise, they are just a needless obstruction to strategical application of the required affs for the kill method as well as an unfair disadvantage for combo users. I don't want to see another dodge clone, but if we're going to buff branches and sheens, then it is only reasonable to see them affect single-attack users as well, because that's the only way they can be used to justify the maluses the race is saddled with.
My personal suggestion is to do away with branches/sheens entirely, and give them actual damage/affliction mitigation capability via some other abilities or passive effects. These pseudo defensive abilities add nothing but frustration for the user because they are denied strategical, active application of these afflictions and are forced to rely on their opponents and luck to get these affs to proc. If this cannot be done, then even the field for single-attack users as well as combo users.
Secondly, flowers/mists are basically fae which cannot be killed or turned via disloyalty. Or seperated from their owner. The way their timer works makes it difficult and/or unstrategic for spores/adjuvants to be used in quick succession. This means that spores/adjuvants are meant to be a milestone or a finisher - you choose only one to cast, and then you do everything you can to capitalize on the effect when it ticks. The only spore/adjuvant worth using is the 10p one, because the other spores/adjuvants of both specializations do not give effects or afflictions that can be reasonably stuck on a target.
There are some ways this can be fixed. Changing the time it takes for different spores/adjuvants to fire may make it possible to create a scenario where 2 spores/adjuvants can fire in close succession. For example, in this particular skillset, the BLUEHORN and the HARTPINE spores use the bluebell/hornedlily and the bluebell/moontear flowers respectively. If, say, the hartpine spore was changed to fire 5 seconds after cast instead of 10 seconds, then it's possible to have the two spores fire in a much closer space.
The exact timing can be tweaked to make the window smaller than my example. But this will enable the lesser spores to be usable together, and depending on their effects, make them more effective without needing to buff the actual effect. Manaspikes and succumb cast together does not neccesarily give an advantage, but ecology has passive afflicting that can synergize with this. Tweaking the actual afflictions and effect of the spores are not out of the question either.
Furthermore, if you want to ask for an embed-like ability for runes/dreamweaving, to be embedded into your trunk or whatever, to make up for the lack of embedding in a demesne, those skillsets can be enabled to support making spores/adjuvants more useful as well. An equivalent for shamanism and tk/tp might not be possible, but I don't think tk/tp needs more help synergizing with aquachemantics anyway.
Removing the mana drain aspect from wildewood is going to make eternalsleep not as possible again. It would be nice to have the new specialization make it viable. The mana drain doesn't need to be boosted all that much either. The afflicting ability and a way to stick affs will help a lot, instead. Vertigo and weakness are afflictions that can be cured either via focus mind or via a single herb cure. Dreamweaving also has a few herbcure only afflictions, daydreaming, narcolepsy. Swapping broken limbs out of glinshari and one of these in, and turning the flower effects into a herb-stack can be a viable alternative to shuyin's salve stack suggestion. Targets are forced to focus mind in order to keep up with a herb-stack, if it can be applied aggressively enough as a DW, and that lowers their mana. If they don't, they get herb-stacked and a powerful glinshari can be enabled without needing to rely on useless branches.
It's an easy way to synergize without taking away the mana drain and relagating eternalsleep to a corner again. And this can be done 1v1.
It should be said that the manadraining in this skillset is quite minor, and without any way to hinder curing either succumb or manaspikes (and no obvious fixes to that forthcoming), it's not likely it ever will be enough to pressure mana, unless your opponent insists on doing things like focusing away all faeriefire instances, and spamming RESTORE to cure broken limbs.
The best herbstack that would protect the succumb from being immediately cured involves a dreamweaver puncturing and afflicting with pacify, unless I'm missing something drastic. Even then, without any real hindering in the set, I don't think you'll be bringing people into eternal sleep range, not to mention that terts without a manakill (all the rest of them) or any good way to protect the succumb/manabarbs combo (all the rest of them?) would be pretty stuck.
I think that the best design direction at this point would be to move away from the mana mechanic that's only visible in a small portion of this skillset and that can only really be used by a single tert and move the 'adjuvant' type abilities to other uses.
Right now, all four of them have the feeling of 'finishers'. It seems like you're supposed to develop some sort of stack or 'lock' and then apply the single powerful affliction and have it do the dirty work or significantly promote the dirty work of killing the target(s). We only really need one finisher of any given type! Instead, I think that the adjuvant-style attacks should be made into categories: finisher (glinshari), hinder (Flowerpower, possibly with tweaks), defense (tbd), and offense (tbd). Clearly, the two currently mana-centric attacks would be slotted into the last two.
I thoroughly agree on the branches, they don't accomplish much but frustrate a small subset of the game with an unfair hindering that otherwise does little. With free run of the skillset, I'd introduce a new 'WildeArmor' skill that would replace magic robes for Wildewoods, with the 'branch' abilities being the wildewood's answer to robe proofings. Outside of that, my suggestion is cutting down on the number of these effects that do backlash afflictions, and make the others do beneficial things for the wildewood when they are hit. Then, as Lerad suggested, move the backlash afflictions to the front of any given attack (if possible) so that they actually defend against that attack.
We thought of some sort of skill in which you 'embed' a rune or mote into yourself and carry it around like a watered down totem. It probably wouldn't be made to fire every 10 seconds, or would be from a restricted list on the runes side of things (no rad). For Shamans, the obvious thing (which I also suggested) is to have the Wildewood be able to create a 1 room localized weather pattern that follows them from place to place.
I still point out that the burst of Hartpine followed by a supersling of haegl/haegl is a rather heavy damage burst. Wont kill every target, and is useless on those it will not kill, but it is heavy damage.
I will say that mana barbs and succumb feel a little out of place in this, succumb more than mana barbs, to me.
I agree with the branches theory. It's a pretty silly mechanic that should have been maybe 1 skill max, but it is what it is. I doubt the admin are going to delete the entire sheen/branch mechanic, so you gotta do what you can.
With that said, I'm fine with the idea of changing them to more defense-related effects instead of another form of dodge. Probably for the better, really. Have it heal a random aff on the victim when the branch ticks, etc.
I've also been considering the idea of a way to be able to fire 2 adjuvants at once since this morning, actually. If you implement my idea of being able to specify the time delay, all it takes is altering the kind of outlays needed. I can easily see a tactic where you can fire the mana drain + manabarbs adjuvant at the same time, for example.
Given this, I don't think the manabarbs spore should exist as is. Obviously the admin want a 'mana lost = damage' theme for the skill, but having it be manabarbs is unrealistic when there is no real way to maintain the aff. Furthermore, I don't think changing the skill to a mana loss = proportional health damage skill will bode well since it is too similar to the Aquachem adjuvant that's ego loss = health damage.
So here's my solution to try to address the mana drain problem:
1. Change the outlays for bluehorn and hartpine. Make one or the other not require bluebell.
2. Allow multiple adjuvants to be cast/fire if not already possible.
3. Implement my suggestion for being able to set the timer for when the adjuvant fires.
4. Change Hartpine's effect to one that deals damage over time dependent on the target's current mana. Have it tick x times before fading.
The ideal scenario would then be this: the druid sets both bluehorn and hartpine to fire almost at the same time, they hinder/do their druidy thing, the effect fires, now the victim is suffering from a mana drain -and- is suffering from health loss based on that lost mana at nearly the same time, pressuring the victim. From there, you can try to damage them out or aff them up. If I were a demi, this would be the time when I refresh power to call a glinshari, as another avenue to pursue.
This setup would be easier to maintain compared to sticking manabarbs given that it is way easier to pressure a vital (owing to the various ways to drain mana) than it is to stick a herb affliction.
Yeah... totemcarving/elder protecting please, it's really awkward trying to ask people to you know... drop whatever they're doing because they didn't/couldn't choose the shiny new toy.
People asking me to come back from Icewynd to carve totems is nothing new. But...if our carvers are limited to what? Four of us? Me, Astrasia, Gabriella and a skillflexing Hiriako....yeah, it will really suck. (Oh, and I think Enyalida can skillflex too?) I mean, it makes sense lore-wise, the forests were gone, so no moonhart elders to carve into totems...but it still sucks.
To me it seems like we've only been given mana drain because the Aquachems got ego drain. Which I assume has something to do with psionics?
More than awkward, I find it really unfair. It's creating a situation where Wildewoods potentially feel bad for leaving all of the totem carving and all of the mulching to other people because they wanted to experience the new thing. And where people who were 'left behind' in normal Druidry are being saddled with what was previously the work of an entire guild. If anything Wildewoods are more suited to the tree-tending tasks of the druid, the absence of those skills in the set is bewildering.
@Shuyin I'm still seeing trying to stick succumb being a real issue, even if manabarbs isn't. Moondancers are an entire class based around trying to stick that one affliction, I don't really think we're going to get away with it just as a side thing. I'm just really wary of having two out of the four spore effects really only be useful for extreme niche or one tert (runes with double haegl).
@Lerad I'm having a hard time seeing a herbstack work unless the affliction output was boosted far beyond 2/3 per 10 seconds. You'd need quite the stack to pressure herbs enough that focusing will bring your mana into any sort of danger zone, and even with a damage per mana incurable attack, I'm not sure anyone but dreamweavers would really capitalize off it. With spores working as they do (unstoppably) I just can't envision any change that expands the number of affs that much really working out, or being at all fair. However, suggestions for alternate affs to that effect would be welcome.
EDIT: I can skillflex, but I'm not likely to. I don't fancy spending $5 every time I want to use my already-paid-for-in-full skillsets.
@Lerad I fully agree with everything you've said about branches/sheens being a poor mechanic. Estarra apparently doesn't at all agree. I've done what I can on changing her mind on that front (including quoting you from your post), to no avail.. So, damage control.
If we change the afflictions of the branches to ones that only have a chance to hinder folk, instead of guaranteed combo breaking, the flaw will be mitigated. Estarra was talking about how these taking a cure balance is what makes them contribute to offense, and interestingly enough, those two guaranteed combo breakers don't actually eat up meaningful cure balances. So, I was thinking the list could be broken limb, weakness, stupidity, self-healing effect?
=Broken limb only has a chance to stop a combo attack if it hits the limb next about to attack, right? It still won't really do anything to caster types but eat a single 1s mending balance, but if we're changed to be breaks/mending based, that could help!
=Weakness also only hits physical types right now, doing nothing against casters, but it won't flat stop your combo.
=Stupidity is the same, and it's notable for being the only effect that would effect casters, as it would slow their curing until focused off or pennyroyal'd away.
=Estarra said she was fine with ONE effect moving away from this backlash paradigm, so one branch should be an effect that takes advantage of that. I like single aff cure, myself.
0
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
I think we're starting to spiral down the "everything sucks" rabbit hole and should probably ease back a bit. All you're going to do is irritate the admin.
I think the biggest issues are what Shuyin has stated. Manabarbs and succumb being extremely expensive and easily cured. Moondancers have a hard enough time sticking succumb outside of a sleeplock without a giant power cost tacked on. I also think the mechanic of damage kills through mana barbs through mana drains isn't going to be a successful one. Even harbingers who have octave, nightshadeblues, crowcaw, and song passives to assist in this can't really pull that off without also needing egovice and the ego/mana drain thing or dischordant....and they have substantially more at their disposal.
I think if that's the direction the admin insist on going, it's going to take a lot of skill reworks to get things where they are actually viable. The issue stems from the fact that succumb and manabarbs are very powerful, high priority afflictions with very simple cures. Without a mechanic like octave, they are worth bumptkiss. Succumb is more dangerous for wiccans because they only need you at half to toad. When you're talking full health kills from mana drains, it takes more. You'll also run into a problem I had as a harb where you fight people with substantially more health than they have mana (krokani, for instance) and while they may be at 0 mana, you now have lost your main source of damage. Without bleeding or something to drain them out, you're just flailing and spamming mending cures.
2
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
FYI I can not think of anything that is not octave or a new affliction that will help sticking manabarbs. Aeon maybe ish.
Sorry to nitpick, but isn't wood more of an insulator for electricity? Unless directly hit with lightening, then the water inside would heat up and explode, but that is taking it a bit far.
If you're wanting, for some bizarre reason to apply real world science to this, then consider that when the voltage is that high, all it sees is "there is something at ground potential". Then the burning and bursting into flames comes because it's suddenly pumped an insane voltage into something with a high resistance. There's enough liquid in living wood that you can't really consider them an insulator in such extreme circumstances, and even if you did their breakdown voltage would be a damn sight lower than that provided by lightning >.>.
This brief dose of reality brought to you by your friendly high voltage service engineer. I now return you to your game discussion >.>
Please note: I deliberately play a very flawed character. Just because he says or does something, does not mean I agree with it. He's a bit of a <censored> really
It's unfortunate that Estarra seems to think using a heal balance after the fact of the attack does something to promote defense of any kind, and wishes to dedicate a quarter of the abilities in the new archetypes to a mechanic like that. Well, I'm not going to keep arguing a point that Estarra's not willing to listen to.
Good luck with the brainstorming. Hopefully there'll be one or two fun ideas Estarra will listen to that'll make up for the branches/sheens and other specs yet to come. Not everything in life is going to be fun, and I guess I just have no choice but to add "Lusternia combat" to that, and just avoid the aspects of which frustrate me.
If anything Wildewoods are more suited to the tree-tending tasks of the druid, the absence of those skills in the set is bewildering.
Pretty sure it's lore reasons. In the future timeline Wildewood comes from, all the communes and cities were destroyed, along with the Moonhart Mother and all her children. Those that took up Wildewood never learnt to carve totems, because there weren't any to carve.
If anything Wildewoods are more suited to the tree-tending tasks of the druid, the absence of those skills in the set is bewildering.
Pretty sure it's lore reasons. In the future timeline Wildewood comes from, all the communes and cities were destroyed, along with the Moonhart Mother and all her children. Those that took up Wildewood never learnt to carve totems, because there weren't any to carve.
(Wasn't sure if you had a cord or not, Enyalida)
That argument somewhat falls with the fact that they can protect the trees that grow up to become elder trees though.
I have plenty of my own thoughts on this skillset, not all of which have been voiced. Some match earlier things, some don't. I'll compile my own suggestions shortly, and echo the ones I agree with.
The branch abilities are supposed to contribute to the offense, 3/4 of them prevent attacks from lots of enemies until cured thereby preventing the branches from continuing to proc.
Paralysis - stops most attacks (Doesn't help Glinshari ender at all, minor contribution to mana draining tactic)
Broken limb - stops many attacks
Prone - stops nearly all attacks (Doesn't help either end tactic, no cure balance required, provides no obvious benefit to the wildewood)
Clumsiness only really affects like less than half the people you may fight, but it does potentially contribute to both end-fight strategies, so I suppose it is alright (read: not great)
If the branches prevent the attacker from attacking, how can they be expected to contribute a meaningful portion of the offense while they negate their own use?
I'd recommend maybe:
Swap paralysis with stupidity. Still contributes to the mana drain tactic but this also potentially can help hinder other healing, allowing the wildewood to get some traction
Don't proc broken arms on the broken limb thing. Legs are fine, they don't stop most attacks and that way it still helps build glinshari without crippling the branches
Replace prone with almost anything else. Mental aff would be good for helping stick clumsiness/vertigo for glinshari ender. Straight damage would help both enders. Amnesia is weak, but could be interesting if other changes would make these suggestions too powerful. Basically anything other than prone lol.
I'd also like to say that weariness from hornedlilly is pretty weak and doesn't really support the end goals of the skillset. Affects few classes, is generally a lower priority cure. It's a purgative cure which doesn't seem to stack with anything else in the skillset. Kind of confused as to why this is in here at all...
@shikha generally, that is true. If we somehow lock down our opponent, our branches suddenly cease to focus, one reason they make for poor offense. However, remember that (for instance) the prone backlash always comes after the attack completes (except for warriors/monks). In other words, for 5/7 classes, it doesn't stop attacks at all, it just makes them have to STAND before their next action.
Your suggestions look pretty close to mine earlier in the thread. In those, I've left the broken limb still hitting arms, as for casters it still won't make much of a difference, and for physical classes, the broken limb needs to hit one of the limbs still remaining to act (still need to confirm that for monks and leg attacks). So if a onehander is swinging left/right and their first attack procs the limb break (currently a 10% chance only), there is only a 25% chance of that limb break being on the right arm and stopping the rest of the attack. That's a 2.5% chance? It seems like an easier solution than limiting it somehow, does it still seem fair?
Comments
While the damage might need some slight tweaking (I appreciate it requires afflictions first.) 11k damage is a little ridiculous. (32% blunt/41% magical resistance)
But more importantly, it needs at least a midway line, if not more than one warning line. If you're in blackout you'll never get the original cast message and then it's GG. Especially when the ability can still be cast when knocked prone.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
RACE CHANGES:
I just want to say that this is not a good idea. Branches are NOT defensive. They give affs that are required for their kill method in a way that is uncontrollable for the user (when the target chooses to attack). When they fire, be they firing all at once or only one at a time, there is no damage reduced, no affliction reduced, no wound reduced. All effects go through. Except for combo users, who can have part of their attack negated. If you want them to be "defensive", make them fire BEFORE the attack and stop it if it fires. Otherwise, they are just a needless obstruction to strategical application of the required affs for the kill method as well as an unfair disadvantage for combo users. I don't want to see another dodge clone, but if we're going to buff branches and sheens, then it is only reasonable to see them affect single-attack users as well, because that's the only way they can be used to justify the maluses the race is saddled with.
My personal suggestion is to do away with branches/sheens entirely, and give them actual damage/affliction mitigation capability via some other abilities or passive effects. These pseudo defensive abilities add nothing but frustration for the user because they are denied strategical, active application of these afflictions and are forced to rely on their opponents and luck to get these affs to proc. If this cannot be done, then even the field for single-attack users as well as combo users.
Secondly, flowers/mists are basically fae which cannot be killed or turned via disloyalty. Or seperated from their owner. The way their timer works makes it difficult and/or unstrategic for spores/adjuvants to be used in quick succession. This means that spores/adjuvants are meant to be a milestone or a finisher - you choose only one to cast, and then you do everything you can to capitalize on the effect when it ticks. The only spore/adjuvant worth using is the 10p one, because the other spores/adjuvants of both specializations do not give effects or afflictions that can be reasonably stuck on a target.
There are some ways this can be fixed. Changing the time it takes for different spores/adjuvants to fire may make it possible to create a scenario where 2 spores/adjuvants can fire in close succession. For example, in this particular skillset, the BLUEHORN and the HARTPINE spores use the bluebell/hornedlily and the bluebell/moontear flowers respectively. If, say, the hartpine spore was changed to fire 5 seconds after cast instead of 10 seconds, then it's possible to have the two spores fire in a much closer space.
0s - start bluehorn spore
4s - recast bluebell flower
8s - start hartpine spore
10s - bluehorn fires
13s - hartpine fires
The exact timing can be tweaked to make the window smaller than my example. But this will enable the lesser spores to be usable together, and depending on their effects, make them more effective without needing to buff the actual effect. Manaspikes and succumb cast together does not neccesarily give an advantage, but ecology has passive afflicting that can synergize with this. Tweaking the actual afflictions and effect of the spores are not out of the question either.
Furthermore, if you want to ask for an embed-like ability for runes/dreamweaving, to be embedded into your trunk or whatever, to make up for the lack of embedding in a demesne, those skillsets can be enabled to support making spores/adjuvants more useful as well. An equivalent for shamanism and tk/tp might not be possible, but I don't think tk/tp needs more help synergizing with aquachemantics anyway.
Removing the mana drain aspect from wildewood is going to make eternalsleep not as possible again. It would be nice to have the new specialization make it viable. The mana drain doesn't need to be boosted all that much either. The afflicting ability and a way to stick affs will help a lot, instead. Vertigo and weakness are afflictions that can be cured either via focus mind or via a single herb cure. Dreamweaving also has a few herbcure only afflictions, daydreaming, narcolepsy. Swapping broken limbs out of glinshari and one of these in, and turning the flower effects into a herb-stack can be a viable alternative to shuyin's salve stack suggestion. Targets are forced to focus mind in order to keep up with a herb-stack, if it can be applied aggressively enough as a DW, and that lowers their mana. If they don't, they get herb-stacked and a powerful glinshari can be enabled without needing to rely on useless branches.
It's an easy way to synergize without taking away the mana drain and relagating eternalsleep to a corner again. And this can be done 1v1.
These are my suggestions for now at any rate.
A rather minor concern, but due to the race change I expect this means that Wildewood don't count for family race honour gains.
Again, minor but kinda sucky and wanted to confirm.
To me it seems like we've only been given mana drain because the Aquachems got ego drain. Which I assume has something to do with psionics?
I think we're starting to spiral down the "everything sucks" rabbit hole and should probably ease back a bit. All you're going to do is irritate the admin.
I think the biggest issues are what Shuyin has stated. Manabarbs and succumb being extremely expensive and easily cured. Moondancers have a hard enough time sticking succumb outside of a sleeplock without a giant power cost tacked on. I also think the mechanic of damage kills through mana barbs through mana drains isn't going to be a successful one. Even harbingers who have octave, nightshadeblues, crowcaw, and song passives to assist in this can't really pull that off without also needing egovice and the ego/mana drain thing or dischordant....and they have substantially more at their disposal.
I think if that's the direction the admin insist on going, it's going to take a lot of skill reworks to get things where they are actually viable. The issue stems from the fact that succumb and manabarbs are very powerful, high priority afflictions with very simple cures. Without a mechanic like octave, they are worth bumptkiss. Succumb is more dangerous for wiccans because they only need you at half to toad. When you're talking full health kills from mana drains, it takes more. You'll also run into a problem I had as a harb where you fight people with substantially more health than they have mana (krokani, for instance) and while they may be at 0 mana, you now have lost your main source of damage. Without bleeding or something to drain them out, you're just flailing and spamming mending cures.
Good luck with the brainstorming. Hopefully there'll be one or two fun ideas Estarra will listen to that'll make up for the branches/sheens and other specs yet to come. Not everything in life is going to be fun, and I guess I just have no choice but to add "Lusternia combat" to that, and just avoid the aspects of which frustrate me.
(Wasn't sure if you had a cord or not, Enyalida)
- Paralysis - stops most attacks (Doesn't help Glinshari ender at all, minor contribution to mana draining tactic)
- Broken limb - stops many attacks
- Prone - stops nearly all attacks (Doesn't help either end tactic, no cure balance required, provides no obvious benefit to the wildewood)
- Clumsiness only really affects like less than half the people you may fight, but it does potentially contribute to both end-fight strategies, so I suppose it is alright (read: not great)
If the branches prevent the attacker from attacking, how can they be expected to contribute a meaningful portion of the offense while they negate their own use?I'd recommend maybe:
- Swap paralysis with stupidity. Still contributes to the mana drain tactic but this also potentially can help hinder other healing, allowing the wildewood to get some traction
- Don't proc broken arms on the broken limb thing. Legs are fine, they don't stop most attacks and that way it still helps build glinshari without crippling the branches
- Replace prone with almost anything else. Mental aff would be good for helping stick clumsiness/vertigo for glinshari ender. Straight damage would help both enders. Amnesia is weak, but could be interesting if other changes would make these suggestions too powerful. Basically anything other than prone lol.
I'd also like to say that weariness from hornedlilly is pretty weak and doesn't really support the end goals of the skillset. Affects few classes, is generally a lower priority cure. It's a purgative cure which doesn't seem to stack with anything else in the skillset. Kind of confused as to why this is in here at all...