So...I'm late to this, but according to numbers given to us by Estarra and looking at AETHERGOOP LIST, if I won an ultimate present and got goop, it would give me enough goop to form 1-2 Czigany coins, or I'd have to get 2 or so to make an artifact pipe (50 credits), or 20ish ultimate presents worth of goop to make a censer (500 credits). Doing simple math, ultimate aethergoop presents are gonna be worth roughly 25 credits.
Really?
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
For example, iron coins gave wheel spins with guaranteed good items like you suggested (i.e., no chance of gold, potions or comms) and very few were interested in them. I'm no psychologist to tell you why that is the case but it is what it is and I believe the aethergoop solutions will resolve many of the issues.
I realise this is likely never going to happen, but showing the players a basic set of percentages showing your chances of pulling things from the Wheel, and a contrasting set showing the iron coins might have helped a bit.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Having a vague mathing of it, if the goop cap is all you're hitting then it's like over two years to hit cubix without any other goop spending. If you get like 18k from presents spins, etc then it brings it down to vaguely equivalent to elite generation which is about 14 months.
I guess I don't have much issue with that. cause well... if the current market prices drop and you're hitting the gold cap every day without doing anything else, you'd get the cubix faster through gold than the goop would generate. Two years exactly at the 36500 price the lowest are currently listed at, less when you factor in org/guild credit sales, game/org/guild credit give aways, bardics/artisanals, etc.
Aetherspace Commerce?? 1-5 aethergoop? counts towards throttle, then gives out 1 goop
Anyway, please let me know what you think and if I've missed
anything!
I don't see the obvious way for goop to be integrated into aethercommerce. If you did it per-transaction,
people would just sell 1 commodity at a time, easily racking the min 1. goop per trade. If you did it as some sort of cumulative thing, well, what determines the size of the reward? Quantity? Profit margin? It becomes a lot to track. How does a crew split the profits? Or in the case of org profits (do people still do this when the hunts happen in org-owned ships?) how does one donate goop?
I don't really see the point of adding goop here. Seconding the "??"
If you're gonna have aethergoop in aetherspace commerce, one way to make it work is that it could be like the spheres. You can only trade auronidion particles for them.
Now, regarding goop from promotional items, most of it seems okay. But the special potions should proooobably not all require 25 goop to make. Golden Tonic should be more expensive than the others, since it provides the greatest benefit. Maybe provide a ladder? Like... 15 for fruit, 20 for kiwi, 25 for argle and 30 for tonic?
Also, are you intentionally nerfing presents to such extremes? As is, standard presents provide 52-64% "useless" rewards (depending on how you view candy) and you're gonna increase that. Worse still is how the ultimate present is gonna have goop in it. At the very least don't put goop in the ultimate present list. You need an incredible amount of presents in order to have a decent chance to get an ultimate. And considering that an ultimate resets the counter, you really want it to feel good to acquire the ultimate. Otherwise, why bother buying presents in the hopes of getting an ultimate?
Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
Goop for aetherspace trading is just going to lead to a lot of headaches for all parties. There's really no need.
There's no problem with putting more goop in the presents (they are already part of them) as long as the expected value of a present doesn't suddenly go down as a result of it.
Goop for aetherspace trading is just going to lead to a lot of headaches for all parties. There's really no need.
There's no problem with putting more goop in the presents (they are already part of them) as long as the expected value of a present doesn't suddenly go down as a result of it.
Probably shouldn't be part of the Ultimate, though.
Goop for aetherspace trading is just going to lead to a lot of headaches for all parties. There's really no need.
There's no problem with putting more goop in the presents (they are already part of them) as long as the expected value of a present doesn't suddenly go down as a result of it.
Thing is, there are no "useless" things (gold, comms, potions) in ultimate presents, and there already is goop in there (60-100) at less than 1% odds. Putting 600-1000 in there (which would be 6-10 in today-goop, or 30-50 credits) at 25% would definitely lower the average value of ultimate presents. I don't think there's anything currently in ultimate presents that are worth even 50 credits, let alone 30 (I'm honestly not sure what the credit prices of anything in there is worth, but I'd guess that the cheapest of them all would be 150-200 credits).
As for aetherspace trading to goop, it'd be easy to just let people trade in one auronisphere for 5 goop (so a crew would have to gather one sphere per member, which is a relatively tall order if I remember correctly from several RL years ago) , and it'd only be doable once per day.
Goop for aetherspace trading is just going to lead to a lot of headaches for all parties. There's really no need.
There's no problem with putting more goop in the presents (they are already part of them) as long as the expected value of a present doesn't suddenly go down as a result of it.
Probably shouldn't be part of the Ultimate, though.
Oh definitely. If we're not looking to nerf presents then I don't see the need to change the ultimate present table at all since the things we're talking about aren't even on it.
Goop for aetherspace trading is just going to lead to a lot of headaches for all parties. There's really no need.
There's no problem with putting more goop in the presents (they are already part of them) as long as the expected value of a present doesn't suddenly go down as a result of it.
Probably shouldn't be part of the Ultimate, though.
Oh definitely. If we're not looking to nerf presents then I don't see the need to change the ultimate present table at all since the things we're talking about aren't even on it.
Well, as Ssaliss said, you would have to change it to remove the goop from the table. It won't really impact anything else because it's a low chance of getting it as-is, but just shouldn't be there at all since there are now other ways of getting it.
I agree that goop shouldn't be a part of aetherspace trading. Part of the idea of goop helping the situation is that the ability to get it is limited, so lets keep those limits down. Trading already can be extremely profitable gold wise.
I'm confused about the presents talk. We can remove the goop from ultimate presents and be fine.
As I'm going through the goop conversion. I'm probably going to have to increase the cost of crafting candy (x10). I forgot the candies have 12 doses each compared to potions which are one dose each (and easily riftable).
As I'm going through the goop conversion. I'm probably going to have to increase the cost of crafting candy (x10). I forgot the candies have 12 doses each compared to potions which are one dose each (and easily riftable).
If you think about it though, wax lips (for instance) may have 6 or 12 uses. Considering that wax lips are 25% buff for one hour, and golden tonics are 100% for one hour, hopefully you won't increase them too much. Maybe crafted candies are set to six uses, and present candies are set to twelve uses?
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Can we get a way to remove candies from our inventory. I have enough lollipops to kidnap all the newbies in Serenwilde.
Just give them to a random newbie from the portal.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
50 unique items, and candies stack into 'bags' with 'pieces' inside. Unfortunately that doesn't mean you can combine 2 2-bean jellybean bags into a single 4-bean bag, but it's better than 4 loose jellybeans.
Rune'd makes the 50 items slow decay, and the upgraded rune is 100 no-decay, IIRC? Then there are vacuums, valises, etc that function as 100+ item slow-/no-decay.
As I'm going through the goop conversion. I'm probably going to have to increase the cost of crafting candy (x10). I forgot the candies have 12 doses each compared to potions which are one dose each (and easily riftable).
Maybe crafted candies are set to six uses, and present candies are set to twelve uses?
Add the spatula doubling this number up to 12, and calibrate the costs around these numbers and we should be good. (ie: DrinkA is x goop, so the candy with the closest equivalent should be between 6-10x goop to craft.)
Candies currently reset to you until you eat them or transfer them per the CANDY command. Potions are not like that but they are riftable. Candy boxes (or pez dispensers!) may be possible in the future but right now I want to focus on just getting the basics done.
Just want to point out that with those prices, you're paying 10x the cost for +10x the doses of >=2x effectiveness for some of those. As an example, fruitpizzazz is effectively 60 minutes of 1/6 Health buff, while Licorice is 720 minutes of 3/13 of the same for 10x the cost, not factoring in the difference between flax and sugar.
IMO, make the candies six doses at 5k, and it makes a 12 with a spatula.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Also, I feel like the candy holder should be a dingbat item, maybe with different custom appearances. Maybe even one that changes based on your personal god >.>
I'd totally buy an Estarra-topped pez dispenser.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
I'd prefer not to have one dose candies (we'd end up with a glut of candies) and can't really redo how candies work as many people already have candies. I prefer to keep them at 12 doses per candy pack. Also, I don't think these should be affected by craft artifacts.
If the majority of the items are going to use sugar commodities, can we PLEASE get some other avenues for getting it besides the occasional failed alchemy attempt - sugar commodities are one of the harder ones to come by already, being one of the few 'base' commodities that are not directly available from villages. It is going to cause sugar prices to SKYROCKET as a result and make it harder still to get hold of sugar commodities for regular cooking recipes.
I don't know about other people, but at the moment I have ONE shop available to me with sugar commodities available, priced at 50 gold per unit.
Kiss of the Enchantress hisses eerily, "Let them fear, and despair."
Comments
Really?
If you get like 18k from presents spins, etc then it brings it down to vaguely equivalent to elite generation which is about 14 months.
I guess I don't have much issue with that. cause well... if the current market prices drop and you're hitting the gold cap every day without doing anything else, you'd get the cubix faster through gold than the goop would generate.
Two years exactly at the 36500 price the lowest are currently listed at, less when you factor in org/guild credit sales, game/org/guild credit give aways, bardics/artisanals, etc.
I don't see the obvious way for goop to be integrated into aethercommerce. If you did it per-transaction, people would just sell 1 commodity at a time, easily racking the min 1. goop per trade. If you did it as some sort of cumulative thing, well, what determines the size of the reward? Quantity? Profit margin? It becomes a lot to track. How does a crew split the profits? Or in the case of org profits (do people still do this when the hunts happen in org-owned ships?) how does one donate goop?
I don't really see the point of adding goop here. Seconding the "??"
Vive l'apostrophe!
Now, regarding goop from promotional items, most of it seems okay. But the special potions should proooobably not all require 25 goop to make. Golden Tonic should be more expensive than the others, since it provides the greatest benefit. Maybe provide a ladder? Like... 15 for fruit, 20 for kiwi, 25 for argle and 30 for tonic?
Also, are you intentionally nerfing presents to such extremes? As is, standard presents provide 52-64% "useless" rewards (depending on how you view candy) and you're gonna increase that. Worse still is how the ultimate present is gonna have goop in it. At the very least don't put goop in the ultimate present list. You need an incredible amount of presents in order to have a decent chance to get an ultimate. And considering that an ultimate resets the counter, you really want it to feel good to acquire the ultimate. Otherwise, why bother buying presents in the hopes of getting an ultimate?
There's no problem with putting more goop in the presents (they are already part of them) as long as the expected value of a present doesn't suddenly go down as a result of it.
As for aetherspace trading to goop, it'd be easy to just let people trade in one auronisphere for 5 goop (so a crew would have to gather one sphere per member, which is a relatively tall order if I remember correctly from several RL years ago) , and it'd only be doable once per day.
I'm confused about the presents talk. We can remove the goop from ultimate presents and be fine.
Rune'd makes the 50 items slow decay, and the upgraded rune is 100 no-decay, IIRC? Then there are vacuums, valises, etc that function as 100+ item slow-/no-decay.
Can we potentially change candies to be riftable?
Will candies still be tradeable after this? Should there be a tax on trading candies as well?
(Isn't fruitpizzazz a vitals buff to health, mana and ego, not just health?)
I'd totally buy an Estarra-topped pez dispenser.
Anyway, I'm really hoping for input on prices!
I don't know about other people, but at the moment I have ONE shop available to me with sugar commodities available, priced at 50 gold per unit.