If gold actually gets some value (and the gold influx decreases), odds are credit prices will decrease. Of course, it won't happen overnight, but it'll probably happen. The collective gold deposits of rich people will dampen the effects a fair bit though; it'll be a while before the effects become noticable, even if the changes are effective.
If we're going to put a gold outlay on crafting, make it 100% at the org craft room and maybe 50% for manse ones owned by you. If not difficult you could make it 75% for non owners who are using a manse one. Numbers can be changed just an idea so that the arti owners get some perk but gold still leaves if we have to do this.
Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable. Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
Throwing this out there: please do not lump Tattoos in that category. Tattoos as a tradeskill is very different from the other two because you likely only sell to one customer, one time, and that's it. People don't switch tattoos often, and I don't know of anyone (and if you are someone feel free to contradict me) who is regularly making a lot of gold at tattooing. I'm not using this as a format to complain about Tattoos. I think it works fine as is. Without the combat aspect of Tattoos though, I doubt a lot of people would take it. Also worth noting here: Tattoos currently gives less armor than basic armor most people can wear. If it weren't for the 2/7 buffs monks get from using tattoos instead of normal armor, there would be incredibly little reason to take the skill as is!
Tattoos is in that category potentially, but suffers from other problems related to usability and durability of goods that date from its conception. The original Tattoos thread has long screeds on the topic that I am sure are still relevant. It's just a pain to get all the tattoos you want or need designed, and it takes so long to get them actually tattooed on you. After that point, you never have to pay another gold sovereign to any tattooist, so all of the business is new players. Of course, the buffs have been nerfed and are not necessarily well known to truly new players so the customer base is even smaller: new characters of existing players who are interested in really min/maxing a character and who haven't already done so with someone else.
@Xenthos has touched on part of this problem lightly as it pertains to all of the crafting skills: The cartel and design system is such a clunky pain in the ass that it's often not worth it to try and make a profit when you need to deal with the state of the economy AND fight tooth and nail with the designing system as well.
The solution to the problem is to fix combat effects on trades and fix said trades.
Except nothing you're saying here is making it so that getting rid of the combat effectiveness of tattoos is a good thing. As it stands right now you need to get trans Tattoos to get armour that is LESS effective than what most people are already wearing, since normal armor now gives 20% to everyone. On top of that, you can never tattoo yourself, so you are dependent on someone else doing it for you EVEN IF YOU HAVE THE SKILL TRANSED. There is no other tradeskill that is so useless to the person who has it as Tattoos. The design aspect is entirely secondary to the basic premise that as the skill stands now it is already a sub-optimal choice for anyone who isn't an acrobatics monk.
If we're going to put a gold outlay on crafting, make it 100% at the org craft room and maybe 50% for manse ones owned by you. If not difficult you could make it 75% for non owners who are using a manse one. Numbers can be changed just an idea so that the arti owners get some perk but gold still leaves if we have to do this.
Boy I wish Bookbinding already worked like this (yes, we'll keep reminding people that a gold outlay is not the end of the world--it's had a gold outlay for every design, forever).
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
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EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
I always forget origami.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
If we're going to put a gold outlay on crafting, make it 100% at the org craft room and maybe 50% for manse ones owned by you. If not difficult you could make it 75% for non owners who are using a manse one. Numbers can be changed just an idea so that the arti owners get some perk but gold still leaves if we have to do this.
Boy I wish Bookbinding already worked like this (yes, we'll keep reminding people that a gold outlay is not the end of the world--it's had a gold outlay for every design, forever).
Could be added to bookbinding now if it's not too difficult?
Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable. Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
with this proposed extra gold cost, for something like cooking would the cost be per item produced, per firing of the oven, or something else? Because if it's extra gold every time a batch of something needs to be cooked then there might be a drop in dust production
I'm 100% against added gold outlay for crafting. That's a horrible idea.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
To a degree, I agree. I'd rather not see the pure necessities get a gold outlay, which would essentially mean all of herbs and alchemy. Luxury items, however, I can see getting an outlay (which would include pretty much all of Artisan, Tailoring and, to a degree, Cooking). Essentially, I think the line can be drawn between crafting with or without designs; that should match up pretty close to 100% (yes, food is sometimes a necessity, but you don't really eat all that often to make it a huge issue). A general gold outlay will, however, create a constant, trickling gold sink, which we definitely need.
Maybe there's a fee for accessing sketches(it's mostly presentation really)? A static price, but like if there is a designer specified they get a specific percentage (maybe something for cartels as well, like if it's private they can add an additional fee on top) I'm kinda imagining a bunch of ferengi gnomes (it's always gnomes) who seize control the cartel system and decide to make a profit off of it. The money could be stored by the gnomes and collected to work around bank issues.
I'd be a bit happier because giving money to the designers is a nice feature while also taking money out of the system.
I'm 100% against added gold outlay for crafting. That's a horrible idea.
Yeah, I have to agree. Things like gold drains and greater crafting costs raise the cost of living, which only gives people greater reason to hoard, not spend. Not really what we're going for, here! I'd really rather our gold sinks were things that brought something to the game. Incentive is a lot healthier and more enjoyable of a solution than pressure.
Idea barf while I'm here:
You could introduce some very expensive, purely RP bonuses that I'm sure some people would drop gold on. Maybe a divine merchant in the havens that sells a greater variety of demigod cosmetic powers for gold? More enters/exits/looks/teleports etc. that aren't org or seal based, for instance. Varied in price but all relatively expensive, maybe some that are ludicrously expensive and themed around how rich you must've been to buy it, haha.
Hmm, idea for crafting: luxury patterns. Special in some way (not a combat way, please, just a fluff way) that makes them appealing, trademaster has to buy a license for gold to permit the use of the pattern type in their cartel. The license would act like a clan upgrade: single-use, permanent, and applied per cartel. There should be a physical store location where you buy the licenses that has the patterns on display so people can see them and think, "ooh, I want one!" Cannot be designed for public use.
Selling more fancy toys for gold instead of only credits and dingbats would be nice. The gold throttle makes it more difficult for someone to play for free, and could possibly be a turn-off for players (especially new ones who might not be aware that it wasn't always in place) who see it as deliberately pushing the sale of credits for money over using the in-game credit market. Introduce access to more stuff for gold! If you're against anything important being sold for gold, I can think of more than a few dingbat artifacts that probably never sell because they're just for fun. Let people have the option to buy them for a pile of gold, and I'm sure more would actually exist in the game.
Definitely agree with making some of the more frivolous dingbat items available for gold. I'd be more inclined to buy things like the fickle finger of fate (for example) with gold, where now there's no way I'd buy it when there are so many other more useful and important things I could buy with my dingbats.
I mentioned it before but I'll say it again - the new limited use candies. I haven't used any of mine yet, because I don't want to 'waste' them. But if I knew I could buy more for gold, I'd be far more inclined to use them regularly. I also think having access to buy the ackleberry inn tonics would also be a good gold sink. Price them higher than the original 5k (it wasn't unusual to see goldentonics selling for 70k+ in the aetherplex) and I have no doubt they will sell, especially when the aetherplex runs dry or only the super expensive ones are left.
I would also pay for one way use on bubblixes. I am lazier than most but I'd pay for that.
I like the idea of essence dust. Anything to get rid of stupid free poisons I will never ever use in presents.
ooh, use the essence dust to conceal furniture? Probably most likely to be manse only with two stages, one concealing from look, the second concealing from ih (except from the "owner" i.e the person with deconstruct perms). Might be nice to be able to just write them into your room description
Pay for one use bubblebixes-cubixes-etc. is a great idea.
Buy the gnomish slot machine for 500k.
10k per use.
Edit: Make it take you to an area where you can gamble for aetherdust (or whatever this new currency is). This area also has an elevator to the various planes/bubbles.
Make it so that nobody can follow you when you use it, allowing bixes to have an important advantage for raiding/domoths/etc.
I don't think it's a necessarily a good idea for crafting to all have a gold outlay/sink. Those are the parts of the economy that need support and bolstering, not increased costs.
The parts that need gold sinks actually are the 'pure necessities' parts of the trade system: the curatives, enchants, and other general gear. These are things that everyone uses, spreading the cost of said gold sinks reasonably evenly across the entire population. You don't need to add incentives for most of these products, they're necessities. The incentive is that you get to play the game and (importantly) generate gold through bashing/influencing.
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EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
Can we finally remove the gold outlay for Bookbinding then, since everyone seems so dead set against it when it comes to their crafts?
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
I think the idea there is that bookbinding is the only old trade that created infinitely durable goods, so the outlay was supposed to sink gold that would otherwise sink out via repeated purchases of commodities (ha!).
That's not really... a thing, so I don't see any problems with removing outlay.
Just as a clarification, is the throttle reset on weave change or is it 24h from when it's hit?
Also, kudos on the 100k throttle, seems better!
Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable. Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
Comments
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
ferengignomes (it's always gnomes) who seize control the cartel system and decide to make a profit off of it.The money could be stored by the gnomes and collected to work around bank issues.
I'd be a bit happier because giving money to the designers is a nice feature while also taking money out of the system.
Idea barf while I'm here:
You could introduce some very expensive, purely RP bonuses that I'm sure some people would drop gold on. Maybe a divine merchant in the havens that sells a greater variety of demigod cosmetic powers for gold? More enters/exits/looks/teleports etc. that aren't org or seal based, for instance. Varied in price but all relatively expensive, maybe some that are ludicrously expensive and themed around how rich you must've been to buy it, haha.
Hmm, idea for crafting: luxury patterns. Special in some way (not a combat way, please, just a fluff way) that makes them appealing, trademaster has to buy a license for gold to permit the use of the pattern type in their cartel. The license would act like a clan upgrade: single-use, permanent, and applied per cartel. There should be a physical store location where you buy the licenses that has the patterns on display so people can see them and think, "ooh, I want one!" Cannot be designed for public use.
Selling more fancy toys for gold instead of only credits and dingbats would be nice. The gold throttle makes it more difficult for someone to play for free, and could possibly be a turn-off for players (especially new ones who might not be aware that it wasn't always in place) who see it as deliberately pushing the sale of credits for money over using the in-game credit market. Introduce access to more stuff for gold! If you're against anything important being sold for gold, I can think of more than a few dingbat artifacts that probably never sell because they're just for fun. Let people have the option to buy them for a pile of gold, and I'm sure more would actually exist in the game.
I mentioned it before but I'll say it again - the new limited use candies. I haven't used any of mine yet, because I don't want to 'waste' them. But if I knew I could buy more for gold, I'd be far more inclined to use them regularly. I also think having access to buy the ackleberry inn tonics would also be a good gold sink. Price them higher than the original 5k (it wasn't unusual to see goldentonics selling for 70k+ in the aetherplex) and I have no doubt they will sell, especially when the aetherplex runs dry or only the super expensive ones are left.
I would also pay for one way use on bubblixes. I am lazier than most but I'd pay for that.
I like the idea of essence dust. Anything to get rid of stupid free poisons I will never ever use in presents.
Buy the gnomish slot machine for 500k.
10k per use.
Edit: Make it take you to an area where you can gamble for aetherdust (or whatever this new currency is). This area also has an elevator to the various planes/bubbles.
Make it so that nobody can follow you when you use it, allowing bixes to have an important advantage for raiding/domoths/etc.
The parts that need gold sinks actually are the 'pure necessities' parts of the trade system: the curatives, enchants, and other general gear. These are things that everyone uses, spreading the cost of said gold sinks reasonably evenly across the entire population. You don't need to add incentives for most of these products, they're necessities. The incentive is that you get to play the game and (importantly) generate gold through bashing/influencing.
That's not really... a thing, so I don't see any problems with removing outlay.
Also, kudos on the 100k throttle, seems better!
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.