Remove curio gold rubs. Change them to random 30 minute ego/health/mana buffs kinda like the Divine blessings from divine realm mob influencing. (people will just rub when they want a buff, instead of rub rub rub rub to get rid of curios)
Just flat out remove gold from presents and wheel spins. Remove trade comms/herbs too. Free comms/herbs are usually frowned on by everyone who ever gets them as a present, but they also mean you do not have to spend gold on comms when you get a pile of them free. At least 75% of the commodities I have came from presents and the Wheel.
So my thoughts on this being one of those people who kinda horde gold and do not really pass it around. I don't buy credits off the market because they are too expensive nor do I really tend to sell my credits on the market because.. well I have no need to take other people's gold. My shops tend to be my main gold intake these days.
First is the commodities. Unless manse mines are entirely removed there is no way to force the price of commodities up. I have thousands and thousands of comms sitting in my stockroom, I am not even really upkeeping anymore - if there were an option to be refunded 75% cost for mines I would honestly probably trade in 100 or so mines.
second I am seeing stuff about maps - I will say maps added a LOT of gold to my collection before the nurf. Once maps got nurfed I kinda quit doing them because I am finding them less and less profitable. When I have 30 maps and do them two days in a row and I do not get any coins at all and that for me was the main point, the gold was just kinda there.
third is curio rubbing - this one is maybe a middle ground, I spent thousands of credits completing a handful of curio sets these past few month and I cannot say it even compares to the amount my maps pre-nurf added.
The biggest thing, and I have said it before, is the gold sink. People bitch about my big ship but my 100 million+ gold is no longer in game I spent on it, it all went into the rooms and what not, it is really the only big gold sink there is for someone like me. I have been holding onto my gold for a LONG time hoping we'd see gold auctions again but nothing has come of it. sell certain low cost artifacts for gold! Depending on cost I might even buy them for novices sometimes! heck, if all artifacts had a gold price tag alongside it with the credit would be nice even if impractical for some.
Or do something about the credit market, make that a gold sink, decide how much you believe a credit should be worth and put a system credit for sale so there is always credits available at -your- price. Maybe when you are doing these nice little promotion or just having a good day and feeling nice you can lower that system price by a % for a time. this would effectively take gold out of the game and give players credits as well as setting the upper bar for credit prices and making novice environment better. (I really do not expect this but it is a suggestion)
The soft, hollow voice of Nocht, the Silent resounds within your mind as His words echo through the aether, "Congratulations, Arimisia. Your mastery of vermin cannot be disputed."
Commodity outlays for upgrading/building manse rooms, possibly as an alternative to gold. Gold upkeep for clan heads to retain access to luxury functions? Gold-buyable buffs Comm-buyable buffs Comm decay above a certain number (ie: you lose 20% of the comms above 1,000 in your rift annually, orgs lose 20% of comms above 10,000) (numbers obviously would need careful tweaking.) Cartel heads having a flat annual fee or their designs become unusable. After x years they go public instead. City and guild deeded cartels have a discounted fee that is instead drawn from their bank coffers.
Commodity outlays for upgrading/building manse rooms, possibly as an alternative to gold. Gold upkeep for clan heads to retain access to luxury functions? Gold-buyable buffs Comm-buyable buffs Comm decay above a certain number (ie: you lose 20% of the comms above 1,000 in your rift annually, orgs lose 20% of comms above 10,000) (numbers obviously would need careful tweaking.) Cartel heads having a flat annual fee or their designs become unusable. After x years they go public instead. City and guild deeded cartels have a discounted fee that is instead drawn from their bank coffers.
you started out good there but I do not like the decay idea, especially in your rift. Some people have paid a lot of credits to expand the rift to be MUCH bigger than that and not only that the stockroom where we can combine those commodities into one group.
designs becoming public that were set cartel only also do not like, I have a lot of cartels and just because I am not paying attention to them doesn't mean I want my family designs or personal designs going public.
however, comms + cost to make a room is not so out there. building in the city costs both so why not have an alternative to an aetherbox while you are in your manse you can create room which would cost an amount of gold + comms. maybe 125k because we are also supplying whatever comms needed, I think when I made stuff in Mag it was like 500 marble and 500 wood.
The soft, hollow voice of Nocht, the Silent resounds within your mind as His words echo through the aether, "Congratulations, Arimisia. Your mastery of vermin cannot be disputed."
0
SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
Cartel heads having a flat annual fee or their designs become unusable. After x years they go public instead. City and guild deeded cartels have a discounted fee that is instead drawn from their bank coffers.
Please don't make cartels have an upkeeping fee. Some of us had to scramble to even make the one million gold just to own one, and besides, there's already a cost included per design you submit! And if everything goes public for not upkeeping, that's a huge, huge penalty for taking a brief hiatus from the game.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Comms out of rift already decay pretty fast, and the idea is more that there needs to be a way to get those massive stockpiles of comms drained out than punishing people who have the massive stockpiles. Encourage usage, rather than hoarding. No reason that the rift expansion artifacts can't also increase the the floor, as well.
My point being that the commodity surplus is just as real a problem for the game economy as gold surplus.
Admittedly the Cartel-fees based stuff isn't my favourite idea ever either, but I didn't say the ideas were good, just that I had ideas that could be discussed. And I'd much rather the Cartel Head bear the cost than the end-consumer.
A newbie won't make 50k per hour (at least no real newbie will), so they won't be affected by this at all. The people who made a lot of gold will still make a lot of gold, and they'll still be able to spend it on newbies.
And yes, while I agree that this won't do anything about the gold already in the system, that can't really be used as an excuse. "Oh, the oil spill is pretty large, so it doesn't matter if we keep pumping in more oil". Yeah, no. Do we need more stuff to spend gold on? Absolutely. Reducing the gold income is also needed though.
Not to mention that 50k is more than enough to stock all the essentials and not need to make a shop run for a long while.
This is a good first step, the issue was not that everyone was making a lot of gold, which only really devalues static gold items - it's that the upper end of the gold market was producing gold so much faster than the bottom end that there was an increasing gap making it harder to fairly price things for everyone else. This change doesn't do anything about the massive pools of gold still sitting around, but it should be a good start on reigning in the problem.
Perhaps at a later stage, effects like this throttling could be tweaked per-source to encourage certain types of activities that just don't pay out versus bashing right now.
I think the goal is to make things that 1) people want, 2) demand constant upkeep - most one time purchases won't pull a lot of the gold out of the economy (unless you're Arimisia, spending 100 million on a ship, but she is probably a significant outlier in that respect), 3) don't create costs for people who don't want to spend on it.
Possible gold sinks (just spitballing, probably mostly bad ideas): - Different types of blessings (is this already available through Triple Junction Brews? Can they be bought from an NPC, and if so, are they at a price point such that they're worth it?) - increase costs for feeding beasts dramatically - Pay for some kind of fuel for aetherships (food? I guess the ship is an "algontherine entity") - Make enemy status to non-org controlled places more of a nuisance - enemied to the Kephera? They send assassins to attack you every so often! Makes it a lot more valuable to use that influence skill, but can be avoided completely by not getting enemy status. -Make orgs eatup a lot more money. Increase costs for guards? Be able to pay a ton of money to shift village feelings your way (the stuff that pops up when you do POLITICS ACKNOR).
Things that don't work because of artifacts or special items, but I'm listing because I had the idea anyway: -Item upkeep (pay a bunch of money to extend your vials or your armour for another 50 months!) -Easy transportation to hard-to-reach areas (don't want to do that quest to go to Mount Dio? No problem, just pay all this money!)
Needless to say, never create another item that creates gold or commodities out of nothing.
Also, a shoutout to Hallifax's garden, which is I think a really cool little gold sink. For those unfamiliar, you put in a mundane flower in the garden, and approximately 10k gold, and then you can get a special Hallifax type flower that all look really cool and some have tie-ins to notable Hallifax families. More stuff like that, please.
This can be applied on a grander level too. Hallifax weather machine that costs gold to operate?
Part of the issue is that there is no incentive to circulate resources, meaning that there isn't any economic pressure to (say) sustain shopkeepers to the point that they can reasonably expect a return on their investment. I think this is one reason we see a race to the bottom on prices for some goods, people are just interested in seeing some return, however meager. There just is no real point to being a tradesperson for anything but its own sake.
Also, re: gold sinks: Perhaps being able to run org-wide/personal lotteries? 10% of the sale price of tickets would go to the system (i.e. vanish), while 90% would go towards the runner of the lottery. Prizes would be set as text (so you'd be able to lotto off a date with Estarra, if you were brave enough), but the runner would be bound to it (so if said person trying to lotto out a date with Estarra didn't actually bother to tell Estarra about it, they'd get a shoe in the head or similar). Similarly, open up auctions for orgs/individuals with the same kind of criterias.
PLEASE don't make it harder to keep up beasts. I've lost Czigany beasts too often to not being able to upkeep them for one reason or another, and those are both limited and not cheap. This also puts more value on the two end-game options that already get used for beasts instead of paying upkeep: the artifact Collar and custom beasts.
EDIT: I still don't know why Wayfaire beasts are allowed to permadie with their price tag >.<
I rarely charge for trade services, I might ask them to cover comm costs, but even that is rare. There is no incentive to try and make a living as a tradesperson whatsoever. I blame Aethershops for most of that and the ability to have mulitple trades (note: I do have multiple trades) for the rest.
Something that I pulled from Achaea's ship system, maybe the ability to hire temporary NPC crew? Put a maximum of like 3 on them, so you could theoretically man a grid, a turret, and a siphoner, but you would still need actual players to fill in the other roles. The pilot would then have remote access to the grid/turret/collector from the command chair.
As another goldsink idea, quests that temporarily reward you with a somewhat hard to find buff (like poison damage, influence speed, heat/cold resistance, etc.) but require a signifigant gold or commodity outlay somewhere along the completion path.
"Hmm? You're suffering from heat stroke? I can make an ointment that will protect you somewhat, but first I need a workshop. Can I borrow some cloth, wood, gems, and marble?"
Personally, I'd definitely love hireable aethercrews. Either if they work on an AI, or if you can order them to do stuff.
3
SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
I missed this earlier, but @Portius had a cool idea for a raffle possibly every other month or so of an artifact or special customized item (an emote for example) sold for gold. We haven't had an auction in ages actually. That could be one way to reduce some glut.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
I can't really justify removing items people bought for credits (or dingbats)
You could by refunding them, the same way you've refunded other things people have bought for credits or dingbats when they became obsolete.
Though only time I've refunded is when there's something else of equal value to replace them (i.e., like old weapon artifacts were refunded but you could get new weapon artifacts). Anyway, it is the last thing I would want to do.
0
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
Unfortunately, it's also one of the biggest contributors to the very problem you're trying to solve . Band-aids are only band-aids.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
Again, alternate ideas are welcome for genies or mines or whatever else you can think of! Rather than just defaulting to "get rid of them", it could be a productive exercise to think out of the box to keep them but modify how they work. For example, what if there was a gold upkeep for mines?
0
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
Or what if instead of mining commodities yourself, you had to pay "miners" to collect it for you? A flat gold fee, and the quantity was random?
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
Gold upkeep for mines which were bought to be gold generation stations totally defeats the purpose.
Mines aren't the problem. They make comms basically free, but whatever, that's good for letting novices get gear cheaply. We need a different consumable thing that people want, but costs gold to get.
I recommend: Artifact rentals for gold. Buying candies for gold. Access to more curios other than travel curios for gold.
Basically things that make the gold disappear from the economy, hopefully to reintroduce the concept of scarcity.
I like Everiine's idea - it would promote selling comms at a price to get a profit, which would in turn take gold out of the game via buying comms to make things.
Again, alternate ideas are welcome for genies or mines or whatever else you can think of! Rather than just defaulting to "get rid of them", it could be a productive exercise to think out of the box to keep them but modify how they work. For example, what if there was a gold upkeep for mines?
Only way I can see gold upkeep for mines is if there was someone in there upkeeping them for us so we don't have to do it, if I could hire an npc and pay him to upkeep my mines with my overall buff well hell ya I would pay that and it would cost me a hella lot cause I have like 300 mines or something stupid like that (I don't even know anymore how many I have -.-;) But just general gold cost to have them so we can upkeep them is meh.
The soft, hollow voice of Nocht, the Silent resounds within your mind as His words echo through the aether, "Congratulations, Arimisia. Your mastery of vermin cannot be disputed."
Comments
Just flat out remove gold from presents and wheel spins. Remove trade comms/herbs too. Free comms/herbs are usually frowned on by everyone who ever gets them as a present, but they also mean you do not have to spend gold on comms when you get a pile of them free. At least 75% of the commodities I have came from presents and the Wheel.
First is the commodities. Unless manse mines are entirely removed there is no way to force the price of commodities up. I have thousands and thousands of comms sitting in my stockroom, I am not even really upkeeping anymore - if there were an option to be refunded 75% cost for mines I would honestly probably trade in 100 or so mines.
second I am seeing stuff about maps - I will say maps added a LOT of gold to my collection before the nurf. Once maps got nurfed I kinda quit doing them because I am finding them less and less profitable. When I have 30 maps and do them two days in a row and I do not get any coins at all and that for me was the main point, the gold was just kinda there.
third is curio rubbing - this one is maybe a middle ground, I spent thousands of credits completing a handful of curio sets these past few month and I cannot say it even compares to the amount my maps pre-nurf added.
The biggest thing, and I have said it before, is the gold sink. People bitch about my big ship but my 100 million+ gold is no longer in game I spent on it, it all went into the rooms and what not, it is really the only big gold sink there is for someone like me. I have been holding onto my gold for a LONG time hoping we'd see gold auctions again but nothing has come of it. sell certain low cost artifacts for gold! Depending on cost I might even buy them for novices sometimes! heck, if all artifacts had a gold price tag alongside it with the credit would be nice even if impractical for some.
Or do something about the credit market, make that a gold sink, decide how much you believe a credit should be worth and put a system credit for sale so there is always credits available at -your- price. Maybe when you are doing these nice little promotion or just having a good day and feeling nice you can lower that system price by a % for a time. this would effectively take gold out of the game and give players credits as well as setting the upper bar for credit prices and making novice environment better. (I really do not expect this but it is a suggestion)
Gold upkeep for clan heads to retain access to luxury functions?
Gold-buyable buffs
Comm-buyable buffs
Comm decay above a certain number (ie: you lose 20% of the comms above 1,000 in your rift annually, orgs lose 20% of comms above 10,000) (numbers obviously would need careful tweaking.)
Cartel heads having a flat annual fee or their designs become unusable. After x years they go public instead. City and guild deeded cartels have a discounted fee that is instead drawn from their bank coffers.
http://forums.lusternia.com/discussion/51/gold-sinks-from-the-old-forums/p1
designs becoming public that were set cartel only also do not like, I have a lot of cartels and just because I am not paying attention to them doesn't mean I want my family designs or personal designs going public.
however, comms + cost to make a room is not so out there. building in the city costs both so why not have an alternative to an aetherbox while you are in your manse you can create room which would cost an amount of gold + comms. maybe 125k because we are also supplying whatever comms needed, I think when I made stuff in Mag it was like 500 marble and 500 wood.
My point being that the commodity surplus is just as real a problem for the game economy as gold surplus.
Admittedly the Cartel-fees based stuff isn't my favourite idea ever either, but I didn't say the ideas were good, just that I had ideas that could be discussed. And I'd much rather the Cartel Head bear the cost than the end-consumer.
This is a good first step, the issue was not that everyone was making a lot of gold, which only really devalues static gold items - it's that the upper end of the gold market was producing gold so much faster than the bottom end that there was an increasing gap making it harder to fairly price things for everyone else. This change doesn't do anything about the massive pools of gold still sitting around, but it should be a good start on reigning in the problem.
Perhaps at a later stage, effects like this throttling could be tweaked per-source to encourage certain types of activities that just don't pay out versus bashing right now.
Possible gold sinks (just spitballing, probably mostly bad ideas):
- Different types of blessings (is this already available through Triple Junction Brews? Can they be bought from an NPC, and if so, are they at a price point such that they're worth it?)
- increase costs for feeding beasts dramatically
- Pay for some kind of fuel for aetherships (food? I guess the ship is an "algontherine entity")
- Make enemy status to non-org controlled places more of a nuisance - enemied to the Kephera? They send assassins to attack you every so often! Makes it a lot more valuable to use that influence skill, but can be avoided completely by not getting enemy status.
-Make orgs eatup a lot more money. Increase costs for guards? Be able to pay a ton of money to shift village feelings your way (the stuff that pops up when you do POLITICS ACKNOR).
Things that don't work because of artifacts or special items, but I'm listing because I had the idea anyway:
-Item upkeep (pay a bunch of money to extend your vials or your armour for another 50 months!)
-Easy transportation to hard-to-reach areas (don't want to do that quest to go to Mount Dio? No problem, just pay all this money!)
Needless to say, never create another item that creates gold or commodities out of nothing.
This can be applied on a grander level too. Hallifax weather machine that costs gold to operate?
EDIT: I still don't know why Wayfaire beasts are allowed to permadie with their price tag >.<
"Hmm? You're suffering from heat stroke? I can make an ointment that will protect you somewhat, but first I need a workshop. Can I borrow some cloth, wood, gems, and marble?"
Mines aren't the problem. They make comms basically free, but whatever, that's good for letting novices get gear cheaply. We need a different consumable thing that people want, but costs gold to get.
I recommend:
Artifact rentals for gold.
Buying candies for gold.
Access to more curios other than travel curios for gold.
Basically things that make the gold disappear from the economy, hopefully to reintroduce the concept of scarcity.