Yeah, I'll trade with @Ileein. I mostly wanted to do it with Thul because he was confirmed town and it'd give me a better chance at grokking how Gardevoir works. Then after the power comes up we can decide which of us keeps Haunter and who tries a random from the Champ pool. There's a part of me that wants to end up with Gengar because trading your babies seems mean, but that's a dumb strategic concern.
TRADE HAUNTER TO ILEEIN
@Tremula you should list everything that Champion has available.
Ileein, could you check in with Tremula and see if your block triggers on recruitments as well as kills, or only on kill attempts? I know that most of the rules text I've seen has been pretty vague, so I'd like to be really sure that it has to have been a kill before we assume that the cult can murder and recruit.
Beyond that, I think it's pretty obvious that Luce's pairings don't break or give any alert to the other party when someone gets recruited. So they're probably irrelevant as a source of information now.
Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
I'm concerned about offing a recruit as opposed to the recruiter too. I'm not sure we can afford it. But I'm also not hearing anybody jumping up with damning evidence against anybody else. Surely we have enough to piece something solid together by now. Frustrating.
The one good thing here is that Trem posted the coroner's report and Dylara is clean. I'm sorry for doubting but the self-post was super sus, you gotta admit.
Since I have no idea whether my availability will improve going forward, I'm just gonna go ahead and <b>Vote: Phoebus</b> in the meantime because duh.
It was unfortunately something I had to deal with that day. Sorry I haven't been chatty new job and all I'll try and post what I saw during the night when I get home.
Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable. Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
I think my biggest problem with trying to figure this out is that I don't think the Chosen has actually had to lie. They started out with one power, were activated and got a 2nd, and can now either use both or one at a time giving them a really effective bluff.
I'm going to believe Vivet that Melali and Cyndarin are recruits because it explains best why Melali made such an awful jail move last night when the rest have been good and Melali is a very good player. Melali keeps hunting for a killer when it's obvious the cult doesn't have one. But doesn't jail Portius to prevent him from being recruited and giving them a kill. Instead Cyndarin is picked to protect Cyn from everyone else.
I think this then points to who the Chosen is. Melali said the other day that they jailed Cen so we know that Cen isn't part of the cult. But again, that doesn't make a lot of sense. Being jailed and not having a kill doesn't mean someone is not part of the cult. Cen is also another weird pick to jail. We don't need someone who can give xp to pokemon so Melali didn't pick them to protect them from the cult. We also know Cen's ability is confirmed, he's been seen using it earlier in the game. However, and please correct me if I'm wrong, we have not seen it used in the later part of the game. I'm thinking Cen and Melali must be cult with Cen being the chosen. Cyndarin is most likely cult as well. Phoebus is obviously cult, converted last night.
I don't quite understand how jailing Cyndarin was such a terrible move. It protected her, yes, but also roleblocked her and gave her a chance to say something in private. Also, I don't see how I could have been converted, nor how I have been hunting for a killer. As for jailing Portius, wouldn't that be roleblocking him as well? Would it be worth it to roleblock our Vigilante? Am I supposed to jail him for the rest of the game? How did I know that he hadn't already been converted?
And how does this translate into Cen being Mafia? I jailed him because he doesn't have a useful power that I would be blocking by jailing him. Additionally, I would be giving him a chance to talk about any extra information he had, and protect him from being targeted as an add-on bonus.
Granted, Cyndarin and Cen could be Mafia. I just don't see how your line of thinking is logical and valid, as it draws reasoning from wrong assumptions.
Anyway, I still maintain that I am Town, and Ileein is obviously also not Mafia. Portius doesn't seem to have been converted yet either.
I think what we have to ask is "when was Phoebus converted" and "how do we know that converting Phoebus didn't also convert Othero, to keep their love flowing?"
Wow, Othero. Pretty bold move to accuse Melali on the premise that it's "obvious the cult doesn't have one," when Ileeinjust stated an attempt was made on her life. I think you just showed your hand.
So that's my problem. We have two night killers, one role based and one who traded for the pokemon, trying to convince the rest of us the mafia couldn't possibly have a nightkill. Both would be first in line to recruit.
I can confirm that Cen was using the Pokemon visit power, after the supposed cult start day with the huge announcement. It was separate and distinct from the cult recruit power someone attempted to use on me. Will need to go back and check notes after I'm off work, but I don't think Cen is the recruiter.
What's the kill then? Just because Ileein stated there was an attempt on her life doesn't mean anything without detail. We're not seeing night kills and no one is stepping up saying that they're blocking them so I'm not very convinced.
I don't quite understand how jailing Cyndarin was such a terrible move. It protected her, yes, but also roleblocked her and gave her a chance to say something in private. Also, I don't see how I could have been converted, nor how I have been hunting for a killer. As for jailing Portius, wouldn't that be roleblocking him as well? Would it be worth it to roleblock our Vigilante? Am I supposed to jail him for the rest of the game? How did I know that he hadn't already been converted?
And how does this translate into Cen being Mafia? I jailed him because he doesn't have a useful power that I would be blocking by jailing him. Additionally, I would be giving him a chance to talk about any extra information he had, and protect him from being targeted as an add-on bonus.
Granted, Cyndarin and Cen could be Mafia. I just don't see how your line of thinking is logical and valid, as it draws reasoning from wrong assumptions.
Anyway, I still maintain that I am Town, and Ileein is obviously also not Mafia. Portius doesn't seem to have been converted yet either.
I think what we have to ask is "when was Phoebus converted" and "how do we know that converting Phoebus didn't also convert Othero, to keep their love flowing?"
And the point being that roleblocking Cyndarin doesn't do anything for us. At this point in the game and with the lack of night kills you should be making your picks like a doctor and not a role-blocker. The strength in your ability now is keeping people from being killed and keeping them from being converted. Portius would be one of the worst people to have converted and it's surprising he hasn't been. Portius using his ability in general is bad because it seems like people are still being redirect.
And yeah, me becoming converted because Phoebus was would be ridiculously OP.
Seriously, the last kill was Lehki which is something I did with Toxicroak 3 nights before he actually died. There is not a lot of evidence that cult has a night kill and it would be really broken for them to have one.
I'd wait for confirmation that it was actually a kill attempt and not a conversion attempt before we made choices based on that. I don't know what Corsola's rule text is, so it might be pretty clear, but I've read enough power descriptions in this game that I don't trust them without asking for clarification.
Re: jailing. Yeah, I don't think I can safely vigkill at all now that we have clear confirmation that a redirect is in play. Jailing me is not a bad choice at all until we deal with that. I don't know if it's a pure redirect or one that forces an action (Seriously, am I the only one who thinks that got brought up at some point? I could've sworn a power that forced actions got mentioned somewhere.) but if they can force actions, just having me in game and unjailed is very dangerous.
Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
"Melali keeps hunting for a killer when it's obvious the cult doesn't have one." -Othero
"first, I did have an attempt on my life." -Portius
"Just because Ileein stated there was an attempt on her life doesn't mean anything without detail." -Othero
No, it means a great deal. Primarily, it means your accusation of Melali is baseless. You're pushing a theory about a cult that can't kill specifically based on a lack of evidence, but we appear to have some evidence to the contrary as of last night. That you would now argue that a noted kill attempt is irrelevant is pretty mind boggling. It makes no sense for a member of the town to downplay an attempted kill. None at all.
I don't believe you targeted me last night. I believe you were recruited for your pokemon power.
Been thinking about it, and I'm getting more comfortable with the idea that Othero is cult.
I was suspicious about the tracking attempt he made on me earlier that should've hit Gardevoir shield. It occurred to me that he was just lying, but I wrote it off as wonky mechanics.
I was suspicious about the typo that killed Ssaliss, writing it off as simply the most embarrassing blunder in Forum Mafia history. I figured that it would have made more sense to kill me outright, but... well, a 50/50 chance of offing the investigator or an unconvertable? And getting away with it through the power of sheer embarrassment? That'd be the ballsiest move I've ever seen.
But what's getting to me right now is that there really haven't been any kill attempts or indications until last night.
The night after Othero got Zoroark, the murder Pokemon.
Someone tell me if there are any gaping flaws in my logic that I need to work out, but I'm thinking Othero might be a good lynch, if I'm right and he is cult. We'd off a cultist and probably axe their kill condition.
Nope, seems pretty reasonable. Phoebus is a safer bet, but Othero is a lot higher value because of Zoroark. Who could very well be the one doing the redirecting, actually. That is a confirmed Zoroark power from back during the event, and we do have pretty clear indication that I got redirected.
Something that might be coincidental or might be relevant: Phoebus claimed to protect Othero for most nights (page 120) and Ssaliss for the others. This claim happened after Ssaliss died on page 119. This might all be true, which would mean she got converted recently. But if you're gonna falsify a claim, it's good to pick something that only one person can contest, especially if that person is on your team.
Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
Couldn't do it, I blew my kill and Zoarack can only take one action each day/night cycle so I was not a redirect. I also wasted the kill, I can't do it again. My tracking has also gone through a jailing. I'm a magical ninja, I apparently go through a lot of blocks.
Anyone want my Pokemon to confirm I'm telling the truth? If Tremulant lists what we have I can also give him back.
I'm generally on board with this line of reasoning. I know I got attacked and that means it must have been either a Mafia kill (which hasn't been demonstrated) or a Pokemon attack-- such as from Zoroark. Incidentally, even if we don't lynch Othero, I will note that Zoroark, if it was the culprit, is now damaged.
Jadice, the Frost Queen says to you, "Constant vigilance."
Nobody tried to kill Ileein, that was Articuno saying hello. I was still unsure about his allegiance last night, so I wanted some security just in case.
After recent events, I am more comfortable with his friendliness.
Nobody tried to kill Ileein, that was Articuno saying hello. I was still unsure about his allegiance last night, so I wanted some security just in case.
After recent events, I am more comfortable with his friendliness.
It met a spiky welcome in that case. I retract, for the moment, my previous suspicion regarding Zoroark.
Jadice, the Frost Queen says to you, "Constant vigilance."
Nobody tried to kill Ileein, that was Articuno saying hello. I was still unsure about his allegiance last night, so I wanted some security just in case.
After recent events, I am more comfortable with his friendliness.
It met a spiky welcome in that case. I retract, for the moment, my previous suspicion regarding Zoroark.
That part is interesting, because I received no indication that he was wounded...hrm
I want to say that birds wouldn't trigger thumbtacks on the floor, but... rules versus flavor situation.
I was told that it would trigger on any attack. So I'm inclined to believe that an Articuno attack would count-- if nothing else the boat is a very confined space!
For the record, what was the nature of the attempted move, Krackenor? And can you double check to see if Articuno is damaged?
Jadice, the Frost Queen says to you, "Constant vigilance."
The first time? Nothing. It's basically a glorified air conditioner. If it's used a second time, it will freeze the target solid until they can defrost during the day.
If you were told the spikes trigger on any attack a Pokemon attack makes a lot of sense to trigger it. Anyone want to get back to the fact that the cult doesn't have a killer because you don't give a cult a killer? If they had one this game would be done a whole ago.
@Ileein, why didn't you mention getting visited by frosty bird? That seems like the sort of thing you'd remember happening.
If it happened. My initial read of this is "desperate attempt by Krackenor to protect teammate."
None was apparent to me. All I noticed when I woke up in the morning was that my spikes, which I've hilariously been tiptoeing over for days (which implies that even more hilariously I picked them up and moved them onto the boat myself), were gone. Now, it does actively prevent the attack from firing, not just block it, or so I was told, so it's possible the Pokemon that attacked me just got injured and went home without firing its attack.
Jadice, the Frost Queen says to you, "Constant vigilance."
Ileein probably needs to clarify if the message stated something about an attempted kill, like mine did with the tootbrush shank. My messages were very clear that someone tried to kill me, not just use a pokemon attack on me.
Comments
TRADE HAUNTER TO ILEEIN
@Tremula you should list everything that Champion has available.
Ileein, could you check in with Tremula and see if your block triggers on recruitments as well as kills, or only on kill attempts? I know that most of the rules text I've seen has been pretty vague, so I'd like to be really sure that it has to have been a kill before we assume that the cult can murder and recruit.
Beyond that, I think it's pretty obvious that Luce's pairings don't break or give any alert to the other party when someone gets recruited. So they're probably irrelevant as a source of information now.
I'll seek clarification on this point.
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
I'm going to believe Vivet that Melali and Cyndarin are recruits because it explains best why Melali made such an awful jail move last night when the rest have been good and Melali is a very good player. Melali keeps hunting for a killer when it's obvious the cult doesn't have one. But doesn't jail Portius to prevent him from being recruited and giving them a kill. Instead Cyndarin is picked to protect Cyn from everyone else.
I think this then points to who the Chosen is. Melali said the other day that they jailed Cen so we know that Cen isn't part of the cult. But again, that doesn't make a lot of sense. Being jailed and not having a kill doesn't mean someone is not part of the cult. Cen is also another weird pick to jail. We don't need someone who can give xp to pokemon so Melali didn't pick them to protect them from the cult. We also know Cen's ability is confirmed, he's been seen using it earlier in the game. However, and please correct me if I'm wrong, we have not seen it used in the later part of the game. I'm thinking Cen and Melali must be cult with Cen being the chosen. Cyndarin is most likely cult as well. Phoebus is obviously cult, converted last night.
Vote: Cen
And how does this translate into Cen being Mafia? I jailed him because he doesn't have a useful power that I would be blocking by jailing him. Additionally, I would be giving him a chance to talk about any extra information he had, and protect him from being targeted as an add-on bonus.
Granted, Cyndarin and Cen could be Mafia. I just don't see how your line of thinking is logical and valid, as it draws reasoning from wrong assumptions.
Anyway, I still maintain that I am Town, and Ileein is obviously also not Mafia. Portius doesn't seem to have been converted yet either.
I think what we have to ask is "when was Phoebus converted" and "how do we know that converting Phoebus didn't also convert Othero, to keep their love flowing?"
So that's my problem. We have two night killers, one role based and one who traded for the pokemon, trying to convince the rest of us the mafia couldn't possibly have a nightkill. Both would be first in line to recruit.
Melali said: And the point being that roleblocking Cyndarin doesn't do anything for us. At this point in the game and with the lack of night kills you should be making your picks like a doctor and not a role-blocker. The strength in your ability now is keeping people from being killed and keeping them from being converted. Portius would be one of the worst people to have converted and it's surprising he hasn't been. Portius using his ability in general is bad because it seems like people are still being redirect.
And yeah, me becoming converted because Phoebus was would be ridiculously OP.
Re: jailing. Yeah, I don't think I can safely vigkill at all now that we have clear confirmation that a redirect is in play. Jailing me is not a bad choice at all until we deal with that. I don't know if it's a pure redirect or one that forces an action (Seriously, am I the only one who thinks that got brought up at some point? I could've sworn a power that forced actions got mentioned somewhere.) but if they can force actions, just having me in game and unjailed is very dangerous.
"Melali keeps hunting for a killer when it's obvious the cult doesn't have one." -Othero
"first, I did have an attempt on my life." -Portius
"Just because Ileein stated there was an attempt on her life doesn't mean anything without detail." -Othero
No, it means a great deal. Primarily, it means your accusation of Melali is baseless. You're pushing a theory about a cult that can't kill specifically based on a lack of evidence, but we appear to have some evidence to the contrary as of last night. That you would now argue that a noted kill attempt is irrelevant is pretty mind boggling. It makes no sense for a member of the town to downplay an attempted kill. None at all.
I don't believe you targeted me last night. I believe you were recruited for your pokemon power.
vote: Othero
I was suspicious about the tracking attempt he made on me earlier that should've hit Gardevoir shield. It occurred to me that he was just lying, but I wrote it off as wonky mechanics.
I was suspicious about the typo that killed Ssaliss, writing it off as simply the most embarrassing blunder in Forum Mafia history. I figured that it would have made more sense to kill me outright, but... well, a 50/50 chance of offing the investigator or an unconvertable? And getting away with it through the power of sheer embarrassment? That'd be the ballsiest move I've ever seen.
But what's getting to me right now is that there really haven't been any kill attempts or indications until last night.
The night after Othero got Zoroark, the murder Pokemon.
Someone tell me if there are any gaping flaws in my logic that I need to work out, but I'm thinking Othero might be a good lynch, if I'm right and he is cult. We'd off a cultist and probably axe their kill condition.
Something that might be coincidental or might be relevant: Phoebus claimed to protect Othero for most nights (page 120) and Ssaliss for the others. This claim happened after Ssaliss died on page 119. This might all be true, which would mean she got converted recently. But if you're gonna falsify a claim, it's good to pick something that only one person can contest, especially if that person is on your team.
Anyone want my Pokemon to confirm I'm telling the truth? If Tremulant lists what we have I can also give him back.
After recent events, I am more comfortable with his friendliness.
I want to say that birds wouldn't trigger thumbtacks on the floor, but... rules versus flavor situation.
For the record, what was the nature of the attempted move, Krackenor? And can you double check to see if Articuno is damaged?
If it happened. My initial read of this is "desperate attempt by Krackenor to protect teammate."