Eh, figures. Hoping the bags aren't nerfed too heavily, given they were announced then yanked as early as one HOUR after, from what I have been hearing, giving only those that were already around a chance to snag them. Should really put them up even for a single full day. Sucks for anyone that was stuck at work/uni/somewhere they could not check messages and missed the announcement.
If they do pull the plug, given that this was something that was purchased using credits rather than real money, everyone should be given a fair chance to get one, if they have the credits available, or roll back/refund those that managed to snag one (or several) before they pulled her, otherwise it is just going to widen the gap even further.
Never put passion before principle. Even if you win, you lose.
If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
1
SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
If things look too good to be true, they probably are. IJS.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
the goody bags have been adjusted to give out 50 dingbats, 5 presents and 5 coins.
Eh, probably not going to bother getting one now. Betting that those that were 'lucky enough to be able to be around at the time' will be allowed to keep the ones they stockpiled. All they would have needed to do was manage to get 4 of them and they would pretty much be guaranteed an ultimate present (which is likely one of the biggest reasons that it way yanked so quickly)
Never put passion before principle. Even if you win, you lose.
If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
I'll get one just because I have things I want to save dings for, but I would have much rather you all set a hard count on the number of the 'good' bags you could get and THEN introduced these lesser, buy-as-many-as-you-want bags. People with tonnes of money and credits will still be able to itch their scratch, but those of us who weren't fortunate enough (or not willing to go game it) to participate can cash in on the original sale and benefits. Even if it's only your first bag you buy from Tink to be as good, I just don't see how it's nearly fair to let us all go wanting.
The issue with the bags was that they generated more than they cost, so you could buy one bag and flip it exponentially (depending on what you got). Basically it just allowed bounds credits to multiply with the added bonus of dingbats.
No one is entitled to promos. It's a business, that promo would have saturated the game with credits and dingbats for no profit. No, it's not fair some people got some of the early bags while some did not. Fair, however, isn't always the best or wisest decision. Perpetuating a mistake for the sake of fairness is questionable logic.
My question is more: If it was discovered to be a problem so quickly, why wasn't that same amount of time and effort spent checking the numbers before launching? Clearly, shortly after announcing it someone said "Whoa, wait a minute this is a bad idea". Is there no one saying that for things before they are released?
0
SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
It's always easier to see something isn't working as planned when...well, when it begins not to work as planned. Wouldn't be surprised if they found out from someone putting this misuse into action, rather than someone saying, "Hello check this out plz."
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
The goody bags are decent now, and it's not like the admin was obligated to provide dingbats for credits like they did. However, it's always frustrating to miss out on something like this. The wheel and presents aren't new, it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone what kind of output they have.
They found out because a couple envoys mentioned that they could perpetually generate a profit. Specifically, Falmiis and myself.
Admin didn't immediately respond, I spent a good while trading in arties. Figured they were either cool with it because it was as advertised, a limited promotion, or they were mulling it over or just letting the batch get bought out before shutting it off.
If you've ever worked at a grocery store, you've seen those crazy coupon ladies walk out with $400 of stuff for $3. The business makes the rules, consumers respond. The business is entitled to change those rules without notice.
You're right, it's entirely up to the admin, I'm just upset because the way I would have done it makes more senseto me. But I don't run the game, and I'm happy to go with their actions. I managed to get two wonder crystals (one from a present and one from @Portius) out of it, so I've found my chill. Now to get 4 more.
They found out because a couple envoys mentioned that they could perpetually generate a profit. Specifically, Falmiis and myself.
Admin didn't immediately respond, I spent a good while trading in arties. Figured they were either cool with it because it was as advertised, a limited promotion, or they were mulling it over or just letting the batch get bought out before shutting it off.
If you've ever worked at a grocery store, you've seen those crazy coupon ladies walk out with $400 of stuff for $3. The business makes the rules, consumers respond. The business is entitled to change those rules without notice.
*shrug* personally i am 'responding' by reconsidering my intention to purchase one. Given the percentage chance of getting commodities or a pittance of gold out of a standard present, a present is not worth 5 credits IMHO, which seems to be how it has been priced out if they are considering dingbats:credits at 1:1
It grates at me how a select few, like always seems to be the case with a 'mistake' like this, get their benefit then we who are lucky to scrape together enough credits for one bag get the short end of the stick yet again. Rich get richer, poor stay where they are - the status quo.
If the intention was to give those who want aethersuits but lack dingbats while having an abundance of credits an alternate avenue to get them, why include coins and presents? (Yes it was nice of them to do it full stop, but as mentioned in other posts, it was poorly thought out and has just resulted in those that were lucky enough to get them before she was yanked getting further ahead)
Kiss of the Enchantress hisses eerily, "Let them fear, and despair."
You do not have to purchase one. I bought 3, got enough credits out of them for a fourth one free, and am pretty happy with it myself. Got some extra things that would have gotten me almost another one to boot, which means that I basically only paid for 2 of the 4.
Edit to your edit: If you don't like it, don't buy it. Nobody is forcing you to. It's a promotion, it's not a "you get to have infinite credits just because they put it into the game incorrectly". They are under no obligation to give every single player in the game thousands of free credits. I don't get your reasoning, and I didn't get any of the "broken" bags either. Would I have liked to? Sure. Do I understand why I can't? Absolutely.
It grates at me how a select few, like always seems to be the case with a 'mistake' like this, get their benefit then we who are lucky to scrape together enough credits for one bag get the short end of the stick yet again. Rich get richer, poor stay where they are - the status quo.
Look, the jig is up. The administration messaged a select few of us in the Cool Kids Lusternia Club and told us that we should abuse this really quick, that way when they pulled it and put it back at a better rate that didn't compound your investment almost exponentially, people would complain. They did this to get back at you personally, Sakaki.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
The admin announce a deal of sorts. Estarra, in Her infinite generosity, gives us a deal that is not only overly generous but frankly a bit abusive in nature, much like shopping at Walmart and buying 10$ giftbags that contain 5-15$ worth of merchandise and a 25$ giftcard to Walmart in them. After a short while of people making money hand over fist, the admin pulls the giftbags and realises that it's going to ruin the economy in short order. The next day, they put the gift bags out again, but without the 25$ gift card in it.
And you feel like they owe something to the people who weren't at the store to buy the first set of giftbags?
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
They found out because a couple envoys mentioned that they could perpetually generate a profit. Specifically, Falmiis and myself.
This. There certainly is a group of folks who would notice and point out an issue like this pretty damn quickly after noticing it, which in turn happens almost immediately. Like, in @Shaddus's metaphor it's obvious that it's a bad deal, and there would be no question why the promotion was pulled... the question would be who okayed it in the first place, and more importantly, why were there not (sufficient) quality checks in place.
Everyone makes mistakes and misjudgements, the idea is to have a team of wonks who double check and edit that stuff. It's super frustrating when stuff like this slips through again and again while indepth, highly thought out and debated player ideas are sent through the ringer several times - be it game changes and additions a la envoys or just crafting designs - but wild and crazy administrative slip ups seem to get a pass on scrutiny until after they're already made waves.
They found out because a couple envoys mentioned that they could perpetually generate a profit. Specifically, Falmiis and myself.
the question would be who okayed it in the first place, and more importantly, why were there not (sufficient) quality checks in place.
(The next few lines aren't meant to be insulting, even if they come across like they are.)
Because IMO, the people who tend to price things are people who haven't actively played in a long time and don't really know what something is worth, especially considering that's partially player opinion anyway. What they tend to see is how much people will pay for something, which is skewed based on some players' personalities and desires to "have it all" or "complete the collection". Case in point, the artifact "an alchemist's pocketwatch". It's really not worth 150 credits/49 aethergoop to have free salt and sulfur, but because someone a long while back was willing to pay much more for it in an auction, here we are.
Many, many times, things are overvalued. Occasionally things are undervalued, and this was one of those times.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
It grates at me how a select few, like always seems to be the case with a 'mistake' like this, get their benefit then we who are lucky to scrape together enough credits for one bag get the short end of the stick yet again. Rich get richer, poor stay where they are - the status quo.
Look, the jig is up. The administration messaged a select few of us in the Cool Kids Lusternia Club and told us that we should abuse this really quick, that way when they pulled it and put it back at a better rate that didn't compound your investment almost exponentially, people would complain. They did this to get back at you personally, Sakaki.
Don't go twisting my words, i did not say anything like that.
Kiss of the Enchantress hisses eerily, "Let them fear, and despair."
I also issued to get admin attention to the problem as soon as I realized I was gaining more than I spent. Then appended to the issue twice to get attention to the matter, because I happen to like this game and would rather not see it explode.
That said, the first version of the bags were hella fun, once I realized what I had in my hands.
Over the last week or so, I have mixed up east and west on the commune aether three times. People are going to start thinking Rancoura is directionally challenged (because apparently I am ).
Tonight amidst the mountaintops And endless starless night Singing how the wind was lost Before an earthly flight
They found out because a couple envoys mentioned that they could perpetually generate a profit. Specifically, Falmiis and myself.
Admin didn't immediately respond, I spent a good while trading in arties. Figured they were either cool with it because it was as advertised, a limited promotion, or they were mulling it over or just letting the batch get bought out before shutting it off.
If you've ever worked at a grocery store, you've seen those crazy coupon ladies walk out with $400 of stuff for $3. The business makes the rules, consumers respond. The business is entitled to change those rules without notice.
*shrug* personally i am 'responding' by reconsidering my intention to purchase one. Given the percentage chance of getting commodities or a pittance of gold out of a standard present, a present is not worth 5 credits IMHO, which seems to be how it has been priced out if they are considering dingbats:credits at 1:1
It grates at me how a select few, like always seems to be the case with a 'mistake' like this, get their benefit then we who are lucky to scrape together enough credits for one bag get the short end of the stick yet again. Rich get richer, poor stay where they are - the status quo.
If the intention was to give those who want aethersuits but lack dingbats while having an abundance of credits an alternate avenue to get them, why include coins and presents? (Yes it was nice of them to do it full stop, but as mentioned in other posts, it was poorly thought out and has just resulted in those that were lucky enough to get them before she was yanked getting further ahead)
While I understand frustrations with "rich get richer" items like the wonder cornucopia, promotions are always going to be a matter of those that have getting more than those that do not. There was nothing in the intent or timing that was aimed to give the "haves" more stuff. It was actually extremely cheap, making it available to drastically more people than say...wonder items.
This whole implication that the timing of this release somehow favored the haves is more than a little ridiculous. A handful of players, some rolling in credits up to their eyeballs, and some not, all reaped the rewards. The promotion itself wasn't fundamentally different than present crates or any other promo that allowed players with resources to reap exponential out of the norm benefits. The "status quo" isn't the poor get poorer, it's that those with resources will get more perks. It's been how IRE has functioned as a business since conception.
I have a bucket ton of artifacts, I get that. That being said, I played for a long, long time in the higher tiers of PK without any artifacts, so my willingness to entertain unfair "rich get richer" criticisms is miminal. It is not appropriate to begrudge players for having means which you may not have right now, which is exactly what you are doing. Welcome to pay for perks games, if you don't have resources, your end of the stick will always be shorter. That's how the business works. That does not mean you cannot play the same game or participate on the same level.
Maybe you work a little harder or a little longer, but the means are available to you. Don't believe me? My first artifact was the Seal of Life.
Maybe you work a little harder or a little longer, but the means are available to you. Don't believe me? My first artifact was the Seal of Life.
I work hard enough as it is - I work THREE jobs. 2 part time, 1 full time. I had the credits available, but because I was stuck at work and had no internet access, by the time I even heard about it and got to a place that HAD internet access, they had already been yanked roughly 2 hours prior.
The bags were badly planned out, end of story.
Kiss of the Enchantress hisses eerily, "Let them fear, and despair."
Comments
If they do pull the plug, given that this was something that was purchased using credits rather than real money, everyone should be given a fair chance to get one, if they have the credits available, or roll back/refund those that managed to snag one (or several) before they pulled her, otherwise it is just going to widen the gap even further.
If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
No one is entitled to promos. It's a business, that promo would have saturated the game with credits and dingbats for no profit. No, it's not fair some people got some of the early bags while some did not. Fair, however, isn't always the best or wisest decision. Perpetuating a mistake for the sake of fairness is questionable logic.
Admin didn't immediately respond, I spent a good while trading in arties. Figured they were either cool with it because it was as advertised, a limited promotion, or they were mulling it over or just letting the batch get bought out before shutting it off.
If you've ever worked at a grocery store, you've seen those crazy coupon ladies walk out with $400 of stuff for $3. The business makes the rules, consumers respond. The business is entitled to change those rules without notice.
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
It grates at me how a select few, like always seems to be the case with a 'mistake' like this, get their benefit then we who are lucky to scrape together enough credits for one bag get the short end of the stick yet again. Rich get richer, poor stay where they are - the status quo.
If the intention was to give those who want aethersuits but lack dingbats while having an abundance of credits an alternate avenue to get them, why include coins and presents? (Yes it was nice of them to do it full stop, but as mentioned in other posts, it was poorly thought out and has just resulted in those that were lucky enough to get them before she was yanked getting further ahead)
Edit to your edit: If you don't like it, don't buy it. Nobody is forcing you to. It's a promotion, it's not a "you get to have infinite credits just because they put it into the game incorrectly". They are under no obligation to give every single player in the game thousands of free credits. I don't get your reasoning, and I didn't get any of the "broken" bags either. Would I have liked to? Sure. Do I understand why I can't? Absolutely.
The admin announce a deal of sorts. Estarra, in Her infinite generosity, gives us a deal that is not only overly generous but frankly a bit abusive in nature, much like shopping at Walmart and buying 10$ giftbags that contain 5-15$ worth of merchandise and a 25$ giftcard to Walmart in them. After a short while of people making money hand over fist, the admin pulls the giftbags and realises that it's going to ruin the economy in short order. The next day, they put the gift bags out again, but without the 25$ gift card in it.
And you feel like they owe something to the people who weren't at the store to buy the first set of giftbags?
Everyone makes mistakes and misjudgements, the idea is to have a team of wonks who double check and edit that stuff. It's super frustrating when stuff like this slips through again and again while indepth, highly thought out and debated player ideas are sent through the ringer several times - be it game changes and additions a la envoys or just crafting designs - but wild and crazy administrative slip ups seem to get a pass on scrutiny until after they're already made waves.
Because IMO, the people who tend to price things are people who haven't actively played in a long time and don't really know what something is worth, especially considering that's partially player opinion anyway. What they tend to see is how much people will pay for something, which is skewed based on some players' personalities and desires to "have it all" or "complete the collection". Case in point, the artifact "an alchemist's pocketwatch". It's really not worth 150 credits/49 aethergoop to have free salt and sulfur, but because someone a long while back was willing to pay much more for it in an auction, here we are.
Many, many times, things are overvalued. Occasionally things are undervalued, and this was one of those times.
That said, the first version of the bags were hella fun, once I realized what I had in my hands.
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
Apparently all Poke-Romans are descended from Nicholas Cage and given zero stage direction.
Tonight amidst the mountaintops
And endless starless night
Singing how the wind was lost
Before an earthly flight
This whole implication that the timing of this release somehow favored the haves is more than a little ridiculous. A handful of players, some rolling in credits up to their eyeballs, and some not, all reaped the rewards. The promotion itself wasn't fundamentally different than present crates or any other promo that allowed players with resources to reap exponential out of the norm benefits. The "status quo" isn't the poor get poorer, it's that those with resources will get more perks. It's been how IRE has functioned as a business since conception.
I have a bucket ton of artifacts, I get that. That being said, I played for a long, long time in the higher tiers of PK without any artifacts, so my willingness to entertain unfair "rich get richer" criticisms is miminal. It is not appropriate to begrudge players for having means which you may not have right now, which is exactly what you are doing. Welcome to pay for perks games, if you don't have resources, your end of the stick will always be shorter. That's how the business works. That does not mean you cannot play the same game or participate on the same level.
Maybe you work a little harder or a little longer, but the means are available to you. Don't believe me? My first artifact was the Seal of Life.