Kelly's situation was dirty by any means of the word, and Harmony has -always- been flawed by the constant interference run by the other team on both sides. Everyone agrees on this. Just because something has "always been like this" is zero grounds for a reasonable change now.
I should've been there protecting her. But I didn't know she was going for it. That's on me.
Malarious was hella lucky in the end, and Chaos is what it is. It's acceptable because it's Chaos.
Nature can't be helped by TAs any more than anyone else can help Nature.
There is a gap between those who have earned TA and those who have not. It is the literal YEARS of practice and the artifacts they've acquired in that time that compliment their strategies. The gaps between Demigods and VA is probably larger than that between TA and VA, and quite frankly I'm not convinced that gap is going to be the game-breaker. They've built up their artifact caches to the nines, and they've got coding, combat, and teamwork experience. That's why most of them were supported for TA to begin with. Soll won the first Ascension in part because he knew how to fight. No matter how you get the seal, that's what ultimately determines it. Knowing how to fight your way to victory in the final event and having the support from the community to manage it.
That's why I make the jokes that they should just give TA to Beauty's bearer as a unanimous decision, because I know that what really matters is something that is mostly showcased in the other contests, and therefore Beauty's seal winner has no special qualities that make them especially useful as a TA. (this is not to suggest that Beauty's winner is incapable of being a good combattant and a good team player, just that winning the seal does not lend itself to those qualities as directly as other events do, ESPECIALLY War.) Remember that the sealbearer still has to win the last round, and that most orgs are going to be reluctant to support a champion they don't feel will help them.
Nature can be helped by TA's, not sure why you would think differently.
I don't think I've used the 'things have always been like this' in regards to War. But I think that argument holds as much weight as your 'you won once before so you should'nt be allowed to compete anymore'
Why don't you apply that same philosphy to previous seal winners? Why should Kelly and Malarious keep stacking on seals, they've had their fun, why not let someone else have fun now too? But for some reason that's ok, but TA's fighting in War is just 100% unfair and should be banned. That's poor logic at it's best.
There is a gap between those who have earned TA and those who have not. It is the literal YEARS of practice and the artifacts they've acquired in that time that compliment their strategies. The gaps between Demigods and VA is probably larger than that between TA and VA, and quite frankly I'm not convinced that gap is going to be the game-breaker. They've built up their artifact caches to the nines, and they've got coding, combat, and teamwork experience. That's why most of them were supported for TA to begin with. Soll won the first Ascension in part because he knew how to fight. No matter how you get the seal, that's what ultimately determines it. Knowing how to fight your way to victory in the final event and having the support from the community to manage it.
You guys seem to not understand that I get this. This is the reason I want TAs banned -- because they are artied to the nines and are so good. One team shouldn't have that kind of luxury if they're competing for a chance to become yet another TA.
EDIT: I haven't said one peep about Transmology, Paradigmatics or Destro in my arguments. It is just as Aerotan is saying. War shouldn't be influenced by people with that kind of know-how.
Winning the seal becomes meaningless if you cannot fight against those who really are the best fighters. I'm sorry, but I wouldn't care about it if they did that.
Nature can be helped by TA's, not sure why you would think differently.
I don't think I've used the 'things have always been like this' in regards to War. But I think that argument holds as much weight as your 'you won once before so you should'nt be allowed to compete anymore'
Why don't you apply that same philosphy to previous seal winners? Why should Kelly and Malarious keep stacking on seals, they've had their fun, why not let someone else have fun now too? But for some reason that's ok, but TA's fighting in War is just 100% unfair and should be banned. That's poor logic at it's best.
Guess you shouldn't have gone for TA if you wanted to keep nabbing seals and credits! Poor you!
Winning the seal becomes meaningless if you cannot fight against those who really are the best fighters. I'm sorry, but I wouldn't care about it if they did that.
Except Ascension isn't a 3v3, it's a mass nightmare clash of all the orgs vying for the one Staff of Ascension. More analogous to Chaos than any other challenge.
Completely different scenarios. Come on guys, keep up with me.
Actually, I was saying exactly the opposite. Your logic is that TAs are geared to the nines and have the experience gaps, and therefore should be banned. Mine was that people who are geared to the nines and have the experience tend to become TAs, and therefore banning them would effectively prove nothing. People exist who have these things and are not already TAs, because for one reason or another they haven't won. Kelly springs to mind, as does Malarious. There is no combat advantage a True Ascendant has that cannot be acquired by people who are not True Ascendants. Arguing that they should be banned is pointless, since what you're really wanting banned is the gap, which can't be done.
Nature can be helped by TA's, not sure why you would think differently.
I don't think I've used the 'things have always been like this' in regards to War. But I think that argument holds as much weight as your 'you won once before so you should'nt be allowed to compete anymore'
Why don't you apply that same philosphy to previous seal winners? Why should Kelly and Malarious keep stacking on seals, they've had their fun, why not let someone else have fun now too? But for some reason that's ok, but TA's fighting in War is just 100% unfair and should be banned. That's poor logic at it's best.
Guess you shouldn't have gone for TA if you wanted to keep nabbing seals and credits! Poor you!
Lol what?
Using the same argument you used, I can continue to compete and ruin everyone elses fun by grabbing a seal year after year as long as I don't get TA, but if I get TA, it's not fair for me to compete in one event out of the nine (but it's okay for me to compete in the other eight).
Yeah, it's as Shuyin called it, you're salty and bitter and not concerned with 'fairness' in the slightest.
It doesn't occur to you at all that one of the reasons that Kelly might not win a seal is because War is heavily tilted in the favour of who has those experienced people on their teams? People that have already proven their worth? Vadi is a skilled and scary melder, I can't argue against that, but we'll never know because he has the, in my eyes, unfairbenefit of two very experienced people supporting him.
We'll see how tomorrow goes. Please do post your logs so I can have vicarious thrills and plan for next year!
Nature can be helped by TA's, not sure why you would think differently.
I don't think I've used the 'things have always been like this' in regards to War. But I think that argument holds as much weight as your 'you won once before so you should'nt be allowed to compete anymore'
Why don't you apply that same philosphy to previous seal winners? Why should Kelly and Malarious keep stacking on seals, they've had their fun, why not let someone else have fun now too? But for some reason that's ok, but TA's fighting in War is just 100% unfair and should be banned. That's poor logic at it's best.
Guess you shouldn't have gone for TA if you wanted to keep nabbing seals and credits! Poor you!
Lol what?
Using the same argument you used, I can continue to compete and ruin everyone elses fun by grabbing a seal year after year as long as I don't get TA, but if I get TA, it's not fair for me to compete in one event out of the nine (but it's okay for me to compete in the other eight).
Yeah, it's as Shuyin called it, you're salty and bitter and not concerned with 'fairness' in the slightest.
That's garbage. I have nothing to be salty and bitter about. That's not my style. No one was around this year, so I couldn't organise a team, nor did I have the inclination to. The people who deserve to win seals...win seals. Whether they become TA is another matter entirely. But War is gamed by -other- TAs essentially granting their chosen one the Seal.
The TL;DR of this is that Maligorn thinks certain people should be banned from War because they're good at war.
Good. I want Irillia, Zyphora, Vivet, Lendren, and so on to be banned from Beauty because they're good at designing.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
The TL;DR of this is that Maligorn thinks certain people should be banned from War because they're good at war.
Good. I want Irillia, Zyphora, Vivet, Lendren, and so on to be banned from Beauty because they're good at designing.
Except Beauty is a competition with only one winner, and only one competitor among hundreds is selected. They can't -help- each other win Beauty actively.
Rivius and Aerotan are probably the people whose posts should be read and digested in this entire thread. They certainly articulate their points the best.
The TL;DR of this is that Maligorn thinks certain people should be banned from War because they're good at war.
Good. I want Irillia, Zyphora, Vivet, Lendren, and so on to be banned from Beauty because they're good at designing.
Except Beauty is a competition with only one winner, and only one competitor among hundreds is selected. They can't -help- each other win Beauty actively.
The spin doctoring here is real.
I have designed things before and put other people's names on them. Just saying.
Also, I'm not interested in a flag war with you. It's infantile to flag posts just because you don't like the content. If you're so pissed off that you're flagging posts out of spite, I suggest a glass of iced sweet tea and some Netflix.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
I want a fair and balanced game that everyone can enjoy, not just the coolkids and coders. Maybe the issue is that everything builds up to Ascension, where only 9 out of hundreds of players get to unlock this really awesome, amazing designation; the strong getting stronger.
But I don't know how to make you guys see it in my eyes any more than I'm explaining myself now. If this trend of allowing the really powerful people continue to help out the just-powerful people continues (and I know it's so tantalising to be the buddy buddy group that has won Lusternia: the Age of Ascension), the game is going to continue to tip into unbalanced. It's even more prominent because of the way alliances are drawn right now. At the moment there are 3 active TAs in Gaudiguch and 1 in Magnagora. 1 Magnagoran TA quit the game entirely because of administrative BS. 1 Glom TA quit because of [data redacted, also I don't know for sure]. 1 Celestian TA who is inactive.
I think we can all agree that in a fight with equal numbers, Gaudiguch and Magnagora tend to dominate heavily. Glomdoring fluxes in power so much that they can go from terrifying to null in a matter of months. Hallifax has always taken a support role, generally being quality over quantity. Celest has always had the zerg. Serenwilde has been almost irrelevant since Glomdoring was released until recent months.
If we -keep allowing TAs to game the competition with their experience, artifacts, and coding knowledge-, then the game is just going to tip over. I'm not a doomsday preacher. I'm just telling you what I think is going to happen and why I'm arguing so fervently about this.
It's just War seal. It's just Destro. It's just TA. It's just alliances right now.
Honestly? I'm fairly certain that if they had their own bracket that meant that they were barred from the actual seal, TA's would be allowed to play in the other events too. But because they would literally break shit, mechanically speaking, if they won a seal, they aren't.
AND FOR CLARITY'S SAKE: TL;DR: I think TAs aren't allowed into other games because if they won them the code for the final event would flip shit/break.
Seriously, I don't get why this game has such a negative attitude towards those who have worked the hardest. Like you should be actively trying not to be good at the game or you are branded the enemy. That's some messed up logic right there. It also creates a toxic atmosphere. Lusternia isn't a fair game, and you will have a hard time to find any game which is 100% fair. But why can't people just say "good on you" to a combatant who has spent tons of time and resources? If you feel it is because you won't get that chance, check first if you'd truly and well tried. I understand not everyone has the financial means, but with a community as small as this it is not like we are drowning in VAs. And then some of them quit because people can be real nasty to them for all the wrong reasons. Seriously, drop it with the entitlement. You want to be the next war VA? Get to working on it. That's the only way you are going to get it. QQing in the forums does not get you anywhere, all it does it create an unpleasant atmosphere for everyone. So stop it please. This is supposed to be a yearly celebration event
You have received a new honour! Congratulations! On this day, you have shown your willingness to ensure a bug-free Lusternia for everyone to enjoy. The face of Iosai the Anomaly unfolds before you, and within you grows the knowledge that you have earned the elusive and rare honour of membership in Her Order. Curio Exchange - A website to help with the trading of curio pieces in Lusternia.
The TL;DR of this is that Maligorn thinks certain people should be banned from War because they're good at war.
Good. I want Irillia, Zyphora, Vivet, Lendren, and so on to be banned from Beauty because they're good at designing.
Except Beauty is a competition with only one winner, and only one competitor among hundreds is selected. They can't -help- each other win Beauty actively.
The spin doctoring here is real.
I have designed things before and put other people's names on them. Just saying.
Also, I'm not interested in a flag war with you. It's infantile to flag posts just because you don't like the content. If you're so pissed off that you're flagging posts out of spite, I suggest a glass of iced sweet tea and some Netflix.
I'm not mad. You just have a history of acting like you know everything and, with your ultimate discerning ways, can pull out seeds of arguments and present them for people to see. Here look at this obviously biased condensed version. It's pretty disingenuous.
I'm disappointed that I haven't been able to be present for any of the challenges yet. Really hoping I can manage justice at least.
I don't think it's good to crown a 'winner of Lusternia' and then effectively ban them from everything Ascension related. If anything, that encourages them to win then quit. Don't we want them to keep playing? To keep competing? To keep that bar raised high?
The TL;DR of this is that Maligorn thinks certain people should be banned from War because they're good at war.
Good. I want Irillia, Zyphora, Vivet, Lendren, and so on to be banned from Beauty because they're good at designing.
Except Beauty is a competition with only one winner, and only one competitor among hundreds is selected. They can't -help- each other win Beauty actively.
The spin doctoring here is real.
I have designed things before and put other people's names on them. Just saying.
Also, I'm not interested in a flag war with you. It's infantile to flag posts just because you don't like the content. If you're so pissed off that you're flagging posts out of spite, I suggest a glass of iced sweet tea and some Netflix.
I'm not mad. You just have a history of acting like you know everything and, with your ultimate discerning ways, can pull out seeds of arguments and present them for people to see. Here look at this obviously biased condensed version. It's pretty disingenuous.
I see.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
You guys can't just sit there and tell me that Lusternia is not at an all-time low in terms of activity. What are raids. What is domothing that isn't just sitting around bashing domoth creatures while a timer ticks up. What are shrine wars. Where are all the novices.
It's the feature creep, artifact bloat. We're so quick to applaud wonderwands (myself included) when not too long ago we hashed out what was wrong with Lusternia.
It's the mass gathering of competent people on just one side. Hey, I get that. Some servers of World of Warcraft are dominated by Alliance, while others by Horde. But we only have one server, and one Lusternia here folks.
The only thing I see is that you took offense to my being facetious about your concept of fairness, and you've suddenly turned it into "Shaddus is a know it all". I'm not. Never been an envoy, I've never been top tier. But I do know some things, I've been around for a while, and I've got a pretty good handle on the ebb and flow of power and might in Lusternia.
If there's two things I know, it's the following: there's always going to be someone who knows more than I do, and life isn't fair. It's never gonna be fair, in Lusty or irl. Trying to force fairness will just imbalance it further.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Truth be told, all the seal events can be seen as unbalanced in some way and having problems. You can find a problem with any event, and even with fixes, it'll just breed more. I admit, some...patches over these problems could be used.
Nature: Groups work together and share answers, thus not really being much of a puzzle. Additionally: WTFPWN can happen to slow down those in lead.
Harmony: Can basically lock someone down and shatter break them or lock down/kill so they cant keep competiting in an event that, quite literally, focuses on the pacifist mechanic of the game. WTFPWN is expected
War: Apparently Ascendants with destruction(?), NO TIMERS AND ENDLESS DAMN MATCHES.
Chaos: You gonna get radded.
Life: WTFPWN shall occur. Also can be tailed and have your sick furrikin curing messed up by followers.
Death: WTFPWNage once again. Dont even bother without a team.
Beauty: How was the judging done? Who says that the admin can denote the best taste in an item? Is such a contest that the winner is chosen rather than challenge fair?
Knowledge: Copy & Paste is real! Who's the fastest clicker? (Think I was one of the few that was actually typing..)
Seriously, I don't get why this game has such a negative attitude towards those who have worked the hardest. Like you should be actively trying not to be good at the game or you are branded the enemy. That's some messed up logic right there. It also creates a toxic atmosphere. Lusternia isn't a fair game, and you will have a hard time to find any game which is 100% fair. But why can't people just say "good on you" to a combatant who has spent tons of time and resources? If you feel it is because you won't get that chance, check first if you'd truly and well tried. I understand not everyone has the financial means, but with a community as small as this it is not like we are drowning in VAs. And then some of them quit because people can be real nasty to them for all the wrong reasons. Seriously, drop it with the entitlement. You want to be the next war VA? Get to working on it. That's the only way you are going to get it. QQing in the forums does not get you anywhere, all it does it create an unpleasant atmosphere for everyone. So stop it please. This is supposed to be a yearly celebration event
This is the exact same logic and rhetoric that, IRL, victimizes poor people for just not trying hard enough. How dare they be so entitled and wanting to punish people with so much cash that their money has a 9-5 job making money. That may be why it raises so many alarms in people's heads.
There comes a point at which the advantages of having won a seal mean that you're in a better position to win again, which.... so on, and so forth. At which point, being reigned in, while 'punishing those who work the hardest' on its surface functions to control outliers for the benefit of everyone. The existence of top warriors, who can afford to shell out massive amount of credits that power them into an entirely different league of power, and who have worked out systems to optimize wounding kills balance for all other warriors. In the end, things are changed such that said top warriors need all of their artifacts and bonuses to stay ahead, because things have become 'balanced' around them, which ends up sucking for everyone.
I'm not sure that TAs being banned would accomplish anything, but it would be nice to see more variance in teams and strategies from year to year, instead of the same ol' folks using the same ol' broken tricks to win. We get it, you're good. It's already been demonstrated that these combos win, and prizes have been handed out accordingly more than once. Once you've won, you have an extra bucketload of credits to compete with and potentially increased powers to fight with. You now have an increased potential to win the next time, which... you get the point.
It's not like this is a new problem, or one that hasn't touched other parts of the game... other parts of the game that generally have been acknowledged as a problem and fixed. No longer is it feasible for one org to hold ALL of the villages, or ALL of the domoths, after all.
Pile that on to the fact that Ascension is a 1-time year event and endlessly lucrative for those (of literally nine people) that win, the glory, the weight, the -in, and it's just overall tasteless for 95% of the population.
I enjoyed Anniversary this year. Why do I hate Ascension so much then?
Personally, besides having the same events each year, my biggest beef with Ascension is Apocalypse Fatigue. A lot loses its punch if you're always expecting the end of the plot to be "Then the seals weaken, then contests, then the soulless are vanquished by the new ascendant, the end". Then again, I'm usually not a fan of the majority of events from a gameplay perspective, as the plot is always (evidently) planned out before players even see any of it. So I'll just sit in my corner, heh.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Comments
I should've been there protecting her. But I didn't know she was going for it. That's on me.
Malarious was hella lucky in the end, and Chaos is what it is. It's acceptable because it's Chaos.
Nature can't be helped by TAs any more than anyone else can help Nature.
@Maligorn
There is a gap between those who have earned TA and those who have not. It is the literal YEARS of practice and the artifacts they've acquired in that time that compliment their strategies. The gaps between Demigods and VA is probably larger than that between TA and VA, and quite frankly I'm not convinced that gap is going to be the game-breaker. They've built up their artifact caches to the nines, and they've got coding, combat, and teamwork experience. That's why most of them were supported for TA to begin with. Soll won the first Ascension in part because he knew how to fight. No matter how you get the seal, that's what ultimately determines it. Knowing how to fight your way to victory in the final event and having the support from the community to manage it.
That's why I make the jokes that they should just give TA to Beauty's bearer as a unanimous decision, because I know that what really matters is something that is mostly showcased in the other contests, and therefore Beauty's seal winner has no special qualities that make them especially useful as a TA. (this is not to suggest that Beauty's winner is incapable of being a good combattant and a good team player, just that winning the seal does not lend itself to those qualities as directly as other events do, ESPECIALLY War.) Remember that the sealbearer still has to win the last round, and that most orgs are going to be reluctant to support a champion they don't feel will help them.
EDIT: I haven't said one peep about Transmology, Paradigmatics or Destro in my arguments. It is just as Aerotan is saying. War shouldn't be influenced by people with that kind of know-how.
Completely different scenarios. Come on guys, keep up with me.
We'll see how tomorrow goes. Please do post your logs so I can have vicarious thrills and plan for next year!
Good. I want Irillia, Zyphora, Vivet, Lendren, and so on to be banned from Beauty because they're good at designing.
The spin doctoring here is real.
Also, I'm not interested in a flag war with you. It's infantile to flag posts just because you don't like the content. If you're so pissed off that you're flagging posts out of spite, I suggest a glass of iced sweet tea and some Netflix.
I want a fair and balanced game that everyone can enjoy, not just the coolkids and coders. Maybe the issue is that everything builds up to Ascension, where only 9 out of hundreds of players get to unlock this really awesome, amazing designation; the strong getting stronger.
But I don't know how to make you guys see it in my eyes any more than I'm explaining myself now. If this trend of allowing the really powerful people continue to help out the just-powerful people continues (and I know it's so tantalising to be the buddy buddy group that has won Lusternia: the Age of Ascension), the game is going to continue to tip into unbalanced. It's even more prominent because of the way alliances are drawn right now. At the moment there are 3 active TAs in Gaudiguch and 1 in Magnagora. 1 Magnagoran TA quit the game entirely because of administrative BS. 1 Glom TA quit because of [data redacted, also I don't know for sure]. 1 Celestian TA who is inactive.
I think we can all agree that in a fight with equal numbers, Gaudiguch and Magnagora tend to dominate heavily. Glomdoring fluxes in power so much that they can go from terrifying to null in a matter of months. Hallifax has always taken a support role, generally being quality over quantity. Celest has always had the zerg. Serenwilde has been almost irrelevant since Glomdoring was released until recent months.
If we -keep allowing TAs to game the competition with their experience, artifacts, and coding knowledge-, then the game is just going to tip over. I'm not a doomsday preacher. I'm just telling you what I think is going to happen and why I'm arguing so fervently about this.
It's just War seal. It's just Destro. It's just TA. It's just alliances right now.
These things add up. Just be careful.
AND FOR CLARITY'S SAKE: TL;DR: I think TAs aren't allowed into other games because if they won them the code for the final event would flip shit/break.
You have received a new honour! Congratulations! On this day, you have shown your willingness to ensure a bug-free Lusternia for everyone to enjoy. The face of Iosai the Anomaly unfolds before you, and within you grows the knowledge that you have earned the elusive and rare honour of membership in Her Order.
Curio Exchange - A website to help with the trading of curio pieces in Lusternia.
I don't think it's good to crown a 'winner of Lusternia' and then effectively ban them from everything Ascension related. If anything, that encourages them to win then quit. Don't we want them to keep playing? To keep competing? To keep that bar raised high?
It's the feature creep, artifact bloat. We're so quick to applaud wonderwands (myself included) when not too long ago we hashed out what was wrong with Lusternia.
It's the mass gathering of competent people on just one side. Hey, I get that. Some servers of World of Warcraft are dominated by Alliance, while others by Horde. But we only have one server, and one Lusternia here folks.
If there's two things I know, it's the following: there's always going to be someone who knows more than I do, and life isn't fair. It's never gonna be fair, in Lusty or irl. Trying to force fairness will just imbalance it further.
Nature: Groups work together and share answers, thus not really being much of a puzzle. Additionally: WTFPWN can happen to slow down those in lead.
Harmony: Can basically lock someone down and shatter break them or lock down/kill so they cant keep competiting in an event that, quite literally, focuses on the pacifist mechanic of the game. WTFPWN is expected
War: Apparently Ascendants with destruction(?), NO TIMERS AND ENDLESS DAMN MATCHES.
Chaos: You gonna get radded.
Life: WTFPWN shall occur. Also can be tailed and have your sick furrikin curing messed up by followers.
Death: WTFPWNage once again. Dont even bother without a team.
Beauty: How was the judging done? Who says that the admin can denote the best taste in an item? Is such a contest that the winner is chosen rather than challenge fair?
Knowledge: Copy & Paste is real! Who's the fastest clicker? (Think I was one of the few that was actually typing..)
Justice: Alright, got my 22 Cha, let's do this.
I enjoyed Anniversary this year. Why do I hate Ascension so much then?
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