Seriously, wanna get back at Kio? Kill me. I'm not even all that hard to take, really. I'll even try to fight back. Take a bully status and come get me on sweet, delicious Prime.
Okay, I'll put this in real context (nice try Shaddus), and then probably duck out of the thread because it always turns into a "cry more Princess" (tm) fest, which is exactly what I was hoping to avoid by bringing this up in private. I expressed to both Kio and Morkarion in OOC tells that a number of people on the "other team" were becoming increasingly frustrated and unhappy with the consistent harrassment they've received. No, it's not just Romaan, and every time I turn around it's someone else. So I tried to appeal to human nature and OOCly suggested that they back off for the health of the game and the happiness of its players. Not to stop altogether, but to not go out of your way to make it absolutely miserable for people - the point where a player should take a step back and show some restraint. I wasn't asking for an apology.
I'm sure by now certain people are chomping at the bit to rip me for jumping/raiding and will call me hypocritical. Okay, that's not my point. I have no problem with jumping, getting your e-justice on, RP conflict, or whatever flavor of the month that you want to use to justify ganking. Go for it. But you don't have to constantly go after people to the point where you're making their game experience unejoyable. Adversity is great; futility is not.
Yes, there are IC ways to resolve conflict. We can all become unenemied to Glomdoring, and let there never be conflict again! And then you'll be bored. Really, if I wanted to talk about this in an IC context, I would have done so. Gosh, one of the saddest things that I read on the forums in a long time was when someone recently felt so frustrated that they actually quit their organization and moved to Glomdoring, just so that they could give the game a chance without grief. I'm just thankful for those who are thick-skinned enough to not be bullied.
I'm 50/50 about getting angsty reactions from victims.
It titillates me when they start with the insults (especially since I try my best not to start with the talking) but I also still have a conscience.
Griefer's life is tough, man.
There have actually been times when you'd gloat during raids when no one said anything and it used to really get to me. I made the mistake of doing it back to you once and you actually managed to say something that made me feel horrible. It's not so much a thing now, but back in the day, you really did show an attitude that I can see grating people and inspiring those sorts of tells. Heck, I generally like to stay quiet.
I feel like if people get pissed at you for killing them, just understand it was a heat of the moment thing. Don't take it personally.
Okay, I'll put this in real context (nice try Shaddus
I'm not trying to say this is what the thread is about, just saying that some people could take steps to prevent being griefed if they aren't comfortable with being a target all the time.
Quit griefing my emotions, Kelly
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
I do agree with Kelly in that players really shouldn't feel like they have to join the winning side just to get any fun out of Lusternia.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Gosh, one of the saddest things that I read on the forums in a long time was when someone recently felt so frustrated that they actually quit their organization and moved to Glomdoring, just so that they could give the game a chance without grief.
I remember this and firmly agree that this was wrong. Said person died twice off prime in the space of a few days and then approached me for sponsorship. At which point Mork was ICly sceptical that someone just wanted to cower under the Wyrd's protection and OOCly I was trying to press the whole "Dude, don't quit your org because you died a couple of times" angle. So ultimately they didn't get the answer they wanted from me and snubbed me ever since, go figure.
Also while some people feel grieved, as Kio said they have the option to approach us themselves. We aren't viscous, child killing, puppy kicking bastards IRL, and ICly if people don't want to be involved in conflict caused by statuses, they have the choice to opt out of it. Last I checked we weren't permanently enemying people for revolts/flares/nodes/domoths in Glomdoring (and I'll be pissed if people start doing that or trying to enemy others who defend any raids we do again) so you can partake in conflict and PK and not have to worry about being killed outside of things, just don't go on the offensive.
Infact can we drop the whole "There will never be conflict again!/No one to fight against!" schtick? Because both are terrible arguments. There's always grounds for conflict in neutral battles, defence, enemy territories, and no one side is going to be devoid of people because every org has a core group of PK'ers too invested/stubborn to ever quit.
That said, there was as Kio pointed out, one person in the group who wasn't enemied, and we apologised to them and explained the circumstances. What followed was an exceptionally pleasant conversation how they enjoyed it, and it was a learning experience and how they thought the conflict nature of the game was great. It's different strokes for different folks really.
The divine voice
of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations,
Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
I'm 50/50 about getting angsty reactions from victims.
It titillates me when they start with the insults (especially since I try my best not to start with the talking) but I also still have a conscience.
Griefer's life is tough, man.
There have actually been times when you'd gloat during raids when no one said anything and it used to really get to me. I made the mistake of doing it back to you once and you actually managed to say something that made me feel horrible. It's not so much a thing now, but back in the day, you really did show an attitude that I can see grating people and inspiring those sorts of tells. Heck, I generally like to stay quiet.
I feel like if people get pissed at you for killing them, just understand it was a heat of the moment thing. Don't take it personally.
I said I tried my best, I didn't say I was always successful (though I'd like to think I was mostly successful!). I am only human after all, too.
And I know about the heat of the moment, considering it's the same thing that inspires both gloating and angst.
Also, for what it's worth, there have been a fair amount of times when I didn't go overboard yet still get the interesting tells. It's not all my filthy attitude.
I'll sit and chill with these guys here who choose to just kill them before they kill you, heh.
Makes me laugh, we'd used to enter Prime Mag, kill everything that moved, destroy all the statues (and build new ones to Celestia gods) then chromapen the place and people are whining about astral death spam?
Some of the most fun times for me were when Silv and co would jump me on astral. Make the most of it! Don't whine about it.
Lusternia is not a strict roleplaying game. It's more a 'talk in Lusternian language' game, for many players, I just have to say that first up. Justification for any sort of actions, be it killing someone or org hopping is flakey at best, be honest.
A while ago, Mag was the scum on the shoe of the basin - not just because of the taint (harhar), but because we were empty, had low morale, few active players, and few of those were combat inclined. We were constantly beat. We were griefed. Our statues were destroyed on a daily basis, and we were lucky if we could find an enchanter to enchant our new ones before they were destroyed again. Citizens were killed in the city and out, for no other reason than because we were there. I bought a gem in the hopes Veyrzhul and Draylor would leave me alone for five minutes to rp in the godrealm, for goodness sake.
It's griefing, when your actions are making the game miserable for the other players. I'm not saying someone having a hissy fit over dying a few times, but when you log in, feel like you are banging your head against the wall again and wondering why was it again you bothered logging in, something is WRONG. You can justify your rp all you like, but why does no one ever consider the health of the game? The fact that is IS a game, and that there are people behing the characters you are ruthlessly destroying at all costs? I'm with Kelly. And you know, I appealed to Draylor, and you know what he did? He eased off. He didn't leave me alone in a field of flowers and rainbows, but he understood the actions were unhealthy to the game as a whole (I presume). Even Veyrzhul found someone else to annoy for a while (sometimes.)
Population is suffering. Now you (meaning griefers of the world as it were) can cling to your reasons at the cost of the other players, or you, the almighty puppetmaster who has ultimate control over your little griefer, can go hey, this is probably driving people away from the game. Maybe my puppet won't notice that player minding their own business over there today, or maybe he will be distracted by some shiny thing on prime.
Don't be the bullies in the yard just because you can, take a pee break now and then, and the game as a whole will benefit.
You griefers don't listen to her. Keep on griefing!
But remember, some day you'll get complacent and it'll get boring, and people will grief you back. When that happens, we'll link you to this page and remind you that it's all good, we're just having a bit of fun.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Fighting back pretty much means becoming that which you hate. There is no "we'll just hurt you once, and you'll stop griefing us" thing going to happen.
Many of us, myself included, do take this game far too personally, probably because of the ridiculous amount of time, energy, and/or money we have invested. It's only a game, and so we go play something else for a while when this game isn't fun.
I have to disagree. Fighting back means you give a damn about what you're a part of, what you defend, and why you're there. Defending against a Griefer doesn't make you a Griefer, and showing them that you're willing to be on the offensive shows them that you aren't a pushover who they can kick around.
That doesn't mean you should run into fights blindly, mind you. Pick your battles.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
You can either defend yourself (after all, you're probably an enemy because you raided, so you clearly have a will to fight or learn to fight).
Alternatively, you could take the proper course of action in game by getting yourself unenemied and not attacking the things Glomdoring, the Shadowdancers, or Lord Nocht holds near and dear to their psychotic, murder-filled hearts.
I'm really curious as to what you constitute as "raiding", here, because I'm willing to bet the majority of Glomdoring's enemies have never even set foot in Ethereal Glomdoring, apart from maybe their planar collegium task.
It wasn't long ago that most orgs would brand you an enemy, and keep you an enemy, for bothering to engage in any conflict against them at all. You definitely don't have to raid to get statuses. From what I know and can tell, this still applies wholly in Glomdoring's case (apart from Shikari's order, where I've seen statuses shift towards the temporary under given circumstances). Which makes sense. After all, it's within the RP, as you've said.
You have to realise that for many people, what you say here really reads as, "Your best course of action is to ensure you never have to fight against my org in any circumstance, for any reason, whatsoever. Then, and only then, will I not take the opportunity to freely kill you whenever I have it."
If people take you up on this, and you find that you have essentially no one to engage in conflict with ever, who are you going to blame?
You can either defend yourself (after all, you're probably an enemy because you raided, so you clearly have a will to fight or learn to fight).
Alternatively, you could take the proper course of action in game by getting yourself unenemied and not attacking the things Glomdoring, the Shadowdancers, or Lord Nocht holds near and dear to their psychotic, murder-filled hearts.
I'm really curious as to what you constitute as "raiding", here, because I'm willing to bet the majority of Glomdoring's enemies have never even set foot in Ethereal Glomdoring, apart from maybe their planar collegium task.
It wasn't long ago that most orgs would brand you an enemy, and keep you an enemy, for bothering to engage in any conflict against them at all. You definitely don't have to raid to get statuses. From what I know and can tell, this still applies wholly in Glomdoring's case (apart from Shikari's order, where I've seen statuses shift towards the temporary under given circumstances). Which makes sense. After all, it's within the RP, as you've said.
You have to realise that for many people, what you say here really reads as, "Your best course of action is to ensure you never have to fight against my org in any circumstance, for any reason, whatsoever. Then, and only then, will I not take the opportunity to freely kill you whenever I have it."
If people take you up on this, and you find that you have essentially no one to engage in conflict with ever, who are you going to blame?
I'll note that it's not so much "shift" as "that's what we've done pretty much forever". Even Celina got in on it with her "wildnodeszzz" enemying.
I will also note that the Ebonguard pretty much only enemy for attacking the Wyrdling. This has been the case for something like 5+ RL years. We have exactly 32 guild enemies.
Yeah, Kio should approach Entrias icly and ask him why he's enemied to Night and Glom.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
I'll note that it's not so much "shift" as "that's what we've done pretty much forever". Even Celina got in on it with her "wildnodeszzz" enemying.
I will also note that the Ebonguard pretty much only enemy for attacking the Wyrdling. This has been the case for something like 5+ RL years. We have something like 32 guild enemies.
It was still something that changed via your decision, and not something that always was.
Shadowdancers, in the meantime, might enemy you for attacking their entourage while -they- are attacking you with them. That's all it takes, from a few I've heard from.
It was still something that changed via your decision, and not something that always was.
Shadowdancers, in the meantime, might enemy you for attacking their entourage while -they- are attacking you with them. That's all it takes, from a few I've heard from.
QFT.
I've also been enemied by orders for killing their invasion mobs during a temp enemying in wildnodes/domoths. Or perm-enemied to guilds/orders for opposing them during said events.
Once I was enemied to Glom for killing Gromagh
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
This discussion throws around a lot of personal opinions, which in the end is great because that shows people think and care. However these things are to a certain extent outlined by the admin already, namely in HELP CONDUCT and HELP ETIQUETTE.
1.5 CONDUCT
When in Lusternia it is important to remember that the other characters have
human beings behind them. No matter how good of a roleplayer you are, if you
are a serious player, you will have some emotional attachment to your character
as will your opponent.
Therefore, please keep in mind that what you do affects other real people in a
very real way. Things like sexual harrassment are obvious no-nos, but most
situations just require you to exercise a little judgement. It's not "just a
game" because real people can be emotionally hurt by what happens in the
virtual world.
1.6 ETIQUETTE FOR DEALING WITH NEW PLAYERS.
When dealing with new or young players, a different standard of etiquette
should apply. Regardless of whether the young player is allied with you or
not, he shouldn't be persecuted unless he is overly rude. Killing young
players is frowned upon and can result in what some call "bad things." It is
best to politely answer their questions and perhaps give them a bit of
assistance if they require it.
Remember that new players are the fresh blood of Lusternia. Without them, the
world grows stale.
Now I agree that some of this is a bit vague, there is for example no real definition of what is a new player nor are there any real hard lines. This is also hard to draw a line on. So maybe an admin voice at this point would be helpful.
Personally I understand both sides, although due to experience in open pvp games my personal take has always been that if something is possible, prepare for the worst and find ways to deal with it instead of hoping for a higher force to intervene. Because that higher force may seek to not do so. Coping by yourself is always an option and should (again according to me) always come first. Not saying that means never asking to please lay off a bit. But I feel that this happens extraordinarily much in this game.
In closing, it also feels as if some players would like to outright delete the conflict from it. Imagine how curious it would be if some of us would want to delete designing for example. Can't we all just accept the game is great because of all of its aspects, and if you don't like some of them, just deal with them in an appropriate fashion and move on?
You have received a new honour! Congratulations! On this day, you have shown your willingness to ensure a bug-free Lusternia for everyone to enjoy. The face of Iosai the Anomaly unfolds before you, and within you grows the knowledge that you have earned the elusive and rare honour of membership in Her Order. Curio Exchange - A website to help with the trading of curio pieces in Lusternia.
It was still something that changed via your decision, and not something that always was.
Shadowdancers, in the meantime, might enemy you for attacking their entourage while -they- are attacking you with them. That's all it takes, from a few I've heard from.
QFT.
I've also been enemied by orders for killing their invasion mobs during a temp enemying in wildnodes/domoths. Or perm-enemied to guilds/orders for opposing them during said events.
Once I was enemied to Glom for killing Gromagh
You... get auto-enemied by the game for killing invasion mobs.
Don't do it, it's silly. If they are not attacking you, then you're fine and do not need to murder them. If they are attacking you, you are already enemied and can murder them just fine.
It was still something that changed via your decision, and not something that always was.
Shadowdancers, in the meantime, might enemy you for attacking their entourage while -they- are attacking you with them. That's all it takes, from a few I've heard from.
QFT.
I've also been enemied by orders for killing their invasion mobs during a temp enemying in wildnodes/domoths. Or perm-enemied to guilds/orders for opposing them during said events.
Once I was enemied to Glom for killing Gromagh
You... get auto-enemied by the game for killing invasion mobs.
Don't do it, it's silly. If they are not attacking you, then you're fine and do not need to murder them. If they are attacking you, you are already enemied and can murder them just fine.
Xenthos enemies Shaddus to Shikari for wildnodes.
Shaddus kills scouts during wildnodes.
Xenthos unenemies Shaddus for end of wildnodes, re-enemies for killing scouts.
(no, this didn't happen with these people. It happened with another character of mine, and another member of Shikari's order)
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
It was still something that changed via your decision, and not something that always was.
Shadowdancers, in the meantime, might enemy you for attacking their entourage while -they- are attacking you with them. That's all it takes, from a few I've heard from.
QFT.
I've also been enemied by orders for killing their invasion mobs during a temp enemying in wildnodes/domoths. Or perm-enemied to guilds/orders for opposing them during said events.
Once I was enemied to Glom for killing Gromagh
You... get auto-enemied by the game for killing invasion mobs.
Don't do it, it's silly. If they are not attacking you, then you're fine and do not need to murder them. If they are attacking you, you are already enemied and can murder them just fine.
Xenthos enemies Shaddus to Shikari for wildnodes.
Shaddus kills scouts during wildnodes.
Xenthos unenemies Shaddus for end of wildnodes, re-enemies for killing scouts.
(no, this didn't happen with these people. It happened with another character of mine, and another member of Shikari's order)
Yeah, that's happened to exactly 1 person (so now I can figure out that alt :P )
This is because I've told the person who did that enemying that if someone murders a scout when they were not an enemy, I'm just going to let the status stand since they had zero reason to actually murder the scout. It just puzzles me, so I figure said person really wanted to be an enemy. I think he took it as "Oh, person who murders a scout should be an enemy". I don't personally have any issue with someone who I temp-enemied killing scouts though, since at that point they are now defending themselves- so I just remove it regardless.
It was still something that changed via your decision, and not something that always was.
Shadowdancers, in the meantime, might enemy you for attacking their entourage while -they- are attacking you with them. That's all it takes, from a few I've heard from.
QFT.
I've also been enemied by orders for killing their invasion mobs during a temp enemying in wildnodes/domoths. Or perm-enemied to guilds/orders for opposing them during said events.
Once I was enemied to Glom for killing Gromagh
You... get auto-enemied by the game for killing invasion mobs.
Don't do it, it's silly. If they are not attacking you, then you're fine and do not need to murder them. If they are attacking you, you are already enemied and can murder them just fine.
Xenthos enemies Shaddus to Shikari for wildnodes.
Shaddus kills scouts during wildnodes.
Xenthos unenemies Shaddus for end of wildnodes, re-enemies for killing scouts.
(no, this didn't happen with these people. It happened with another character of mine, and another member of Shikari's order)
Yeah, that's happened to exactly 1 person (so now I can figure out that alt :P )
This is because I've told the person who did that enemying that if someone murders a scout when they were not an enemy, I'm just going to let the status stand since they had zero reason to actually murder the scout. It just puzzles me, so I figure said person really wanted to be an enemy. I think he took it as "Oh, person who murders a scout should be an enemy". I don't personally have any issue with someone who I temp-enemied killing scouts though, since at that point they are now defending themselves- so I just remove it regardless.
PM me here and make sure it's the right person. I wouldn't want you to suspect the one person in Lusternia who isn't me.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
if Self.status.isGriefed then if Self.class ~= "Shadowdancer" and #Self.afflictions.current >= 0 then Self.Char.attributes.testicles:grow() else send("qq") end end
Kelly said: Okay, I'll put this in real context (nice try Shaddus), and then probably duck out of the thread because it always turns into a "cry more Princess" (tm) fest, which is exactly what I was hoping to avoid by bringing this up in private. I expressed to both Kio and Morkarion in OOC tells that a number of people on the "other team" were becoming increasingly frustrated and unhappy with the consistent harrassment they've received. No, it's not just Romaan, and every time I turn around it's someone else. So I tried to appeal to human nature and OOCly suggested that they back off for the health of the game and the happiness of its players. Not to stop altogether, but to not go out of your way to make it absolutely miserable for people - the point where a player should take a step back and show some restraint. I wasn't asking for an apology.
I'm sure by now certain people are chomping at the bit to rip me for jumping/raiding and will call me hypocritical. Okay, that's not my point. I have no problem with jumping, getting your e-justice on, RP conflict, or whatever flavor of the month that you want to use to justify ganking. Go for it. But you don't have to constantly go after people to the point where you're making their game experience unejoyable. Adversity is great; futility is not.
Yes, there are IC ways to resolve conflict. We can all become unenemied to Glomdoring, and let there never be conflict again! And then you'll be bored. Really, if I wanted to talk about this in an IC context, I would have done so. Gosh, one of the saddest things that I read on the forums in a long time was when someone recently felt so frustrated that they actually quit their organization and moved to Glomdoring, just so that they could give the game a chance without grief. I'm just thankful for those who are thick-skinned enough to not be bullied.
You had no reason to contact me OOCly. None. Ask the people who routinely ask OOCly questions after a spar or regarding an envoy report, and they can tell you that I'm a pretty big stickler to saying IC. The OOC chat stays in one of two clans, where I'm not playing Lusternia but instead having a good time talking about other things with some really good people.
All of this killing and maiming is happening from a completely IC standpoint. It feels wrong to me to take it to an OOC level.
If you have a question about an undeserved enemy status, you should ask about it. If, 50 years ago, you killed an SD's fae while they ganked you and you got enemied for it, don't just sit there and think that's something they're allowed to do but seems sketchy. Ask someone about it. People abuse the system, but no one can fix it if they don't know it happened.
(Back on topic, I think:)
The first thing to do in this situation is take the proper IC route, not immediately jump to OOC (and yes, this is an immediate jump to OOC because this is the first time anyone's said anything to me about it). As for all the people saying "but you won't have anyone to kill if we're not enemies!" I sure will. I can still raid your planes, your god realms, and your seventeen year old nephew's left shoe because that's where he keeps his drug money. Not to mention Wildnodes and Domoths.
All the IC stuff aside,
If you feel like Kio's actions are me griefing you, and you believe that it transcends a reasonable IC justification, approach me, the player. Please.
Edit: Man, quotes need to stop breaking.
Really big edit 2: @Xenthos suggested my salt-o-meter was busted. I'm sleepy and have bad people skills to begin with. Really big edit to make it sound less like a ranting glob of deer-lick and more like a productive post ('cause that's what it was intended to be).
1) If you have an IC problem with someone, you should attempt to handle it in an IC matter and if it continues and is a violation of the game's rules, then you should ISSUE.
2) The Avenger covers PK and that is pretty generally what the admin go by in PK cases.
3) If you haven't read HELP 1.5 yet, you should. It is a very guide guide on how you should approach the game.
4) Consider this post your first and only warning against personal attacks. From what I have read, there are some good points here, but if you are going to resort to personal attacks and rude remarks I will raise your warning level. Please be civil and have a thoughtful discussion about the issue.
So this was mostly tl;dr after the first few paragraphs were dripping with venom, but it's obvious that you've missed the point entirely. Man, I'm not complaining. I'm not whining. I don't know how else to say that. I'm not speaking for the masses, no one asked me to say anything. I was expressing my perspective to you in the hopes that you might reconsider the results of your actions.
If I were in your shoes and my gameplay was genuinely bothering people on a personal level, I would want to know about it, and at least try to explain to and sympathize with the other party. As other people have said, there are real people on the other side of the keyboard, and as much as you want to make your game an IC experience, people have real feelings and want to enjoy the game too. I'm sorry that you can't see it that way, and I'm sorry to the Lusternia community for inspriring this thread of a gross overreaction to something that I thought was a simple request. Shame on me.
Comments
I'm sure by now certain people are chomping at the bit to rip me for jumping/raiding and will call me hypocritical. Okay, that's not my point. I have no problem with jumping, getting your e-justice on, RP conflict, or whatever flavor of the month that you want to use to justify ganking. Go for it. But you don't have to constantly go after people to the point where you're making their game experience unejoyable. Adversity is great; futility is not.
Yes, there are IC ways to resolve conflict. We can all become unenemied to Glomdoring, and let there never be conflict again! And then you'll be bored. Really, if I wanted to talk about this in an IC context, I would have done so. Gosh, one of the saddest things that I read on the forums in a long time was when someone recently felt so frustrated that they actually quit their organization and moved to Glomdoring, just so that they could give the game a chance without grief. I'm just thankful for those who are thick-skinned enough to not be bullied.
I'm not trying to say this is what the thread is about, just saying that some people could take steps to prevent being griefed if they aren't comfortable with being a target all the time.
Quit griefing my emotions, Kelly
I remember this and firmly agree that this was wrong. Said person died twice off prime in the space of a few days and then approached me for sponsorship. At which point Mork was ICly sceptical that someone just wanted to cower under the Wyrd's protection and OOCly I was trying to press the whole "Dude, don't quit your org because you died a couple of times" angle. So ultimately they didn't get the answer they wanted from me and snubbed me ever since, go figure.
Also while some people feel grieved, as Kio said they have the option to approach us themselves. We aren't viscous, child killing, puppy kicking bastards IRL, and ICly if people don't want to be involved in conflict caused by statuses, they have the choice to opt out of it. Last I checked we weren't permanently enemying people for revolts/flares/nodes/domoths in Glomdoring (and I'll be pissed if people start doing that or trying to enemy others who defend any raids we do again) so you can partake in conflict and PK and not have to worry about being killed outside of things, just don't go on the offensive.
Infact can we drop the whole "There will never be conflict again!/No one to fight against!" schtick? Because both are terrible arguments. There's always grounds for conflict in neutral battles, defence, enemy territories, and no one side is going to be devoid of people because every org has a core group of PK'ers too invested/stubborn to ever quit.
That said, there was as Kio pointed out, one person in the group who wasn't enemied, and we apologised to them and explained the circumstances. What followed was an exceptionally pleasant conversation how they enjoyed it, and it was a learning experience and how they thought the conflict nature of the game was great. It's different strokes for different folks really.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
Makes me laugh, we'd used to enter Prime Mag, kill everything that moved, destroy all the statues (and build new ones to Celestia gods) then chromapen the place and people are whining about astral death spam?
Some of the most fun times for me were when Silv and co would jump me on astral. Make the most of it! Don't whine about it.
(Or go play snakes and ladders).
A while ago, Mag was the scum on the shoe of the basin - not just because of the taint (harhar), but because we were empty, had low morale, few active players, and few of those were combat inclined. We were constantly beat. We were griefed. Our statues were destroyed on a daily basis, and we were lucky if we could find an enchanter to enchant our new ones before they were destroyed again. Citizens were killed in the city and out, for no other reason than because we were there. I bought a gem in the hopes Veyrzhul and Draylor would leave me alone for five minutes to rp in the godrealm, for goodness sake.
It's griefing, when your actions are making the game miserable for the other players. I'm not saying someone having a hissy fit over dying a few times, but when you log in, feel like you are banging your head against the wall again and wondering why was it again you bothered logging in, something is WRONG. You can justify your rp all you like, but why does no one ever consider the health of the game? The fact that is IS a game, and that there are people behing the characters you are ruthlessly destroying at all costs? I'm with Kelly. And you know, I appealed to Draylor, and you know what he did? He eased off. He didn't leave me alone in a field of flowers and rainbows, but he understood the actions were unhealthy to the game as a whole (I presume). Even Veyrzhul found someone else to annoy for a while (sometimes.)
Population is suffering. Now you (meaning griefers of the world as it were) can cling to your reasons at the cost of the other players, or you, the almighty puppetmaster who has ultimate control over your little griefer, can go hey, this is probably driving people away from the game. Maybe my puppet won't notice that player minding their own business over there today, or maybe he will be distracted by some shiny thing on prime.
Don't be the bullies in the yard just because you can, take a pee break now and then, and the game as a whole will benefit.
But remember, some day you'll get complacent and it'll get boring, and people will grief you back. When that happens, we'll link you to this page and remind you that it's all good, we're just having a bit of fun.
That doesn't mean you should run into fights blindly, mind you. Pick your battles.
It wasn't long ago that most orgs would brand you an enemy, and keep you an enemy, for bothering to engage in any conflict against them at all. You definitely don't have to raid to get statuses. From what I know and can tell, this still applies wholly in Glomdoring's case (apart from Shikari's order, where I've seen statuses shift towards the temporary under given circumstances). Which makes sense. After all, it's within the RP, as you've said.
You have to realise that for many people, what you say here really reads as, "Your best course of action is to ensure you never have to fight against my org in any circumstance, for any reason, whatsoever. Then, and only then, will I not take the opportunity to freely kill you whenever I have it."
If people take you up on this, and you find that you have essentially no one to engage in conflict with ever, who are you going to blame?
I'll note that it's not so much "shift" as "that's what we've done pretty much forever". Even Celina got in on it with her "wildnodeszzz" enemying.
I will also note that the Ebonguard pretty much only enemy for attacking the Wyrdling. This has been the case for something like 5+ RL years. We have exactly 32 guild enemies.
Shadowdancers, in the meantime, might enemy you for attacking their entourage while -they- are attacking you with them. That's all it takes, from a few I've heard from.
I've also been enemied by orders for killing their invasion mobs during a temp enemying in wildnodes/domoths. Or perm-enemied to guilds/orders for opposing them during said events.
Once I was enemied to Glom for killing Gromagh
Now I agree that some of this is a bit vague, there is for example no real definition of what is a new player nor are there any real hard lines. This is also hard to draw a line on. So maybe an admin voice at this point would be helpful.
Personally I understand both sides, although due to experience in open pvp games my personal take has always been that if something is possible, prepare for the worst and find ways to deal with it instead of hoping for a higher force to intervene. Because that higher force may seek to not do so. Coping by yourself is always an option and should (again according to me) always come first. Not saying that means never asking to please lay off a bit. But I feel that this happens extraordinarily much in this game.
In closing, it also feels as if some players would like to outright delete the conflict from it. Imagine how curious it would be if some of us would want to delete designing for example. Can't we all just accept the game is great because of all of its aspects, and if you don't like some of them, just deal with them in an appropriate fashion and move on?
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Curio Exchange - A website to help with the trading of curio pieces in Lusternia.
Don't do it, it's silly. If they are not attacking you, then you're fine and do not need to murder them. If they are attacking you, you are already enemied and can murder them just fine.
Shaddus kills scouts during wildnodes.
Xenthos unenemies Shaddus for end of wildnodes, re-enemies for killing scouts.
(no, this didn't happen with these people. It happened with another character of mine, and another member of Shikari's order)
This is because I've told the person who did that enemying that if someone murders a scout when they were not an enemy, I'm just going to let the status stand since they had zero reason to actually murder the scout. It just puzzles me, so I figure said person really wanted to be an enemy. I think he took it as "Oh, person who murders a scout should be an enemy". I don't personally have any issue with someone who I temp-enemied killing scouts though, since at that point they are now defending themselves- so I just remove it regardless.
if Self.class ~= "Shadowdancer" and #Self.afflictions.current >= 0 then
Self.Char.attributes.testicles:grow()
else
send("qq")
end
end
2) The Avenger covers PK and that is pretty generally what the admin go by in PK cases.
3) If you haven't read HELP 1.5 yet, you should. It is a very guide guide on how you should approach the game.
4) Consider this post your first and only warning against personal attacks. From what I have read, there are some good points here, but if you are going to resort to personal attacks and rude remarks I will raise your warning level. Please be civil and have a thoughtful discussion about the issue.
If I were in your shoes and my gameplay was genuinely bothering people on a personal level, I would want to know about it, and at least try to explain to and sympathize with the other party. As other people have said, there are real people on the other side of the keyboard, and as much as you want to make your game an IC experience, people have real feelings and want to enjoy the game too. I'm sorry that you can't see it that way, and I'm sorry to the Lusternia community for inspriring this thread of a gross overreaction to something that I thought was a simple request. Shame on me.