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A post to all those who are feeling griefed.

KioKio
edited September 2013 in Common Grounds
[This is that special time where I pipe up and say I'm not speaking for anyone but myself, the player behind Kio, Isaac.]

I've always been told that you should never apologize for the way someone feels.  If you're apologizing, but you have to add on a "but [anything]", you're not really sorry.

So, I guess I'll start out by saying I can't say I'm sorry.

It's not because I'm a doodlehead and hate you and want to make your life miserable.  It's not because I don't empathize with you and understand your feelings.  It's because I don't feel that my actions, OOCly, have reached the point where they need to be called into question.  However, word has reached me that some people do not agree.  Hence, a postedly post.

First off, let's hash out a definition.  Wikipedia defines a griefer as:

A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways.[1] A griefer derives pleasure primarily or exclusively from the act of annoying other users, and as such is a particular nuisance in online gaming communities, since griefers often cannot be deterred by penalties related to in-game goals.[2]

Now, let's talk about Kio's actions.  Kio is the Prince of Darkness with the High Coven of Mother Night, of the Merciless Forest, Glomdoring.  His entire existence is to embody the power of Night in the most aggressive of ways.  Night is unrelenting, ruthless, and cold.  She does not merely cast her ire upon those her cross her; She snuffs out their life.  It is a perfect fit for the Glomdoring, after all.  Ask the Glommies, folk: not even those within the commune are shown mercy.  That's how it is, and I like to think we do it fairly well.  After all, we have a pretty decent novice retention rate lately, and there's been a whole slew of new folk trickling in over the past few week who have stayed.

Glomdoring don't take crap from no man.

To Kio, enemies are not people who just aren't allowed in Glomdoring's territory or people who Glomdoring doesn't like because they stole Glom's candy at the two-cent store four Saturdays after their puppy got hit by a car driven by a fourteen-year-old with a rebelious streak.  No, no.  Enemies have earned the ire of the Glomdoring.  They are not just to be shown no mercy on the battlefield; no one is shown mercy on the battlefield.  These are people who have done something to actively harm the Glomdoring or for what it stands.  They are to be hunted mercilessly.

Enemies of the Night Coven (and especially those who are enemies of Night or have slain the fae), however, have a special place in heart.  Not only does he hunt them actively, he enjoys it.  It's how he gets his kicks off.  His the PRINCE of gods-be-damned DARKNESS.  He's the person who is supposed to embody Mother Night's ruthlessness the most.  He didn't just get selected because someone needed to fill that slot... he was named the heir because Nihta saw Her Darkness within him.

Now, Lusternia isn't WoW.  We don't have PvE, PvP, RP-PvE, and RP-PvP servers.  We're 100% RP, 100% of the time.  Kio's whole existence is dedicated to hunting down the enemies of Glomdoring, the Coven, Night, and Lord Nocht.  It's not a matter of "Oh, I saw this person who's an enemy while I was passing through, I should attack them because RP."  No.  It's, "These are places where I know my enemies tread regularly.  They have become predictable and careless.  All the more reason to hunt them down."

Note: enemies.

Say it with me here: enemies.

Now, if you've been paying attention to the forums recently, you'll remember an incident with @Eodh.  You'll also remember that it was settled.  I openly apologized for my actions, explained what I had done wrong, and took the proper avenues to ensure that I never made that mistake again.  After all, this is a game, and people want to enjoy it.

BUT WAIT, KIO?!  DOESN'T THAT GO AGAINST EVERYTHING YOU'RE SAYING ABOUT RP?

No, it doesn't.  There was no actual RP justification for killing Eodh.  I could have spun some up, sure, but at the end of the day, I panicked and did the wrong thing.

Back to the point of this post.  I have been told that there are many people who consider me a griefer.  Take a look up there at that definition.  I'm not hunting you down and slaying you and your first born because I have some sort of deep-seated daddyrage that I need to take out on you.  I'm doing it because you're Kio's enemy.

Your character went and got yourself enemied to Glomdoring, Shadowdancers, Night, or Nocht.  Your character is in an area where you are open to attack.  Kio is your character's hunter, and your character is Kio's prey.  That's your character's life now.

But it doesn't have to be.  You see, if your character wasn't an enemy, then Kio wouldn't hunt you down (unless you're a Seren - and even then, he'd probably ignore you if you're not an enemy).  What should you do?  I'll give you a hint:

It's not complain that you're getting griefed by some college graduate who's working a menial job and living the bumtoot nowhere, West Virginia.

You can either defend yourself (after all, you're probably an enemy because you raided, so you clearly have a will to fight or learn to fight).

Alternatively, you could take the proper course of action in game by getting yourself unenemied and not attacking the things Glomdoring, the Shadowdancers, or Lord Nocht holds near and dear to their psychotic, murder-filled hearts.

So.  If you feel like you're getting griefed by me, don't sit back and do nothing about it.  Try to see if there's an IC justification (because, unless I'm missing something [which happens every so often], there probably is) and take the proper course of action to rectify it in whatever way you choose.

Oh, and I killed a non-enemy.  Her name is @Reah.  I apologized and let her know that I thought she was an enemy because she was hanging out and hunting with them.  I make mistakes, and now that I know I have here, I won't repeat it.  Her response sent me for a loop, lemme tell ya.  Biggest confusion spurt I've ever had.

So yeah, if you feel like you're getting griefed, try to figure out why Kio's hunting you, first.  If you can't, send me a tell or a PM.  If I've made a mistake, you'll get a bright shiny new apology and the satisfaction of knowing I'm not perfect, but I'll remember said mistake and keep it in mind next time I see you.

Or you could go play WoW.  We have better graphics in Lusternia, but whatever floats your boat.

Kio, out.
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Comments

  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens.
    The events that lead to this post was after a complaint both Kio and I recieved, however I really can't tack much onto this post except "Ditto"*. If people have an issue with what's going on, there are tons of RP channels and ways to take this, not doing so means you're denying interaction, not just between you and me, but between other people in leadership positions who enjoy RP too.

    Coming to me out of character isn't going to give people the resolution they seek, especially if they haven't tried to tackle this in game, and in character first.


    *Well other than being a college graduate in Virginia. I'm a charity volunteer working out of Cumbria, England.

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


    image
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    /popcorn
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • ShuyinShuyin The pug life chose me.
    If I made a post for every person I've upset over the course of playing this game, I'd have a count that rivals Xenthos'.
    image
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    edited September 2013
    TL;DR

    Suck it up and drive on.



    Be that as it may, it's extremely easy to justify reasons to kill people. You don't have to justify it, Kio, and there's been an extremely long amount of precedence to all orgs enemying people "who oppose them" just to give them a reason to kill them. Don't apologise to the people who whine at you, because some day they'll be on top, and you'll be on bottom, and they'll grief just as bad. If anything, griefing is like a wave of highs and lows. Sometimes you're the griefed, sometimes you're the griefer.

    Edit:

    Personally, I'd like to urge the people who are feeling grief to go out and earn that grief. Kio kills you? Kill someone smaller in his org. Kio kills your city or communemate? Hunt down one of his familymates and kill them, spike the head at the entrance to Glom. Morkarion jumps you while you're hunting? Fly into Glom and start killing denizens, or get a group together to kill crow aspects/night avatars/daughters. Being passive and just accepting being "griefed" does nothing but make you feel pitiful for yourself. Start raiding godrealms. Hit and run loyal denizens. Chop non-elder trees. Be aggressive.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    (Sorry, recently got promoted to Sith Lord on SWTOR)

    I'm being quite serious. If kio or anyone else attacks you, and does it repeatedly, you have a handful of options;

    1: stay at your nexus on prime, or in your manse. Lusternia is now a chat room for you.

    2:Pay to get unenemied to Kio's org. He would likely prefer that, but enemy statuses are easily put back in place. Unless you're also going with #1 from above, this is likely a waste.

    3: Rage QQ.

    4: Join his org so he won't kill you (as much). This may also be his goal, NMBG GBTG.

    5: Fight back. Stand up, grow a pair, learn some skills, and grief him and his back. Turn about is fair play, and whether he complains about it or not is moot. He knows it's not personal, it's a game. It's RP. He hurts you, you hurt him, Lusternia rolls on.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    I'll put this into some context:

    Romaan is enemied to Kio, and is a Titan. He keeps hunting astral, where kio likes to stalk him and kill him easily. Celestians have warned Romaan to stick to prime and influence his way to demigod, building a buffer before going back out. Romaan refuses, saying that doing so is "too slow". Whose fault is it that romaan keeps getting griefed?


    Not (generally) Kio's.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • EodhEodh
    Do Shaddus #4. Glomdoring's not so bad, and you generally don't have to worry about people killing you because most people think that killing someone from Glomdoring will most probably merit a bigger fight (like the last two ones on Ethereal Serenwilde and then Faethorn). Managed to twist someone seven times and a toad-able mana on the Serenwilde raid (but I don't have toadcurse yet :( ).

  • KioKio
    Eodh said:
    Do Shaddus #4. Glomdoring's not so bad, and you generally don't have to worry about people killing you because most people think that killing someone from Glomdoring will most probably merit a bigger fight (like the last two ones on Ethereal Serenwilde and then Faethorn). Managed to twist someone seven times and a toad-able mana on the Serenwilde raid (but I don't have toadcurse yet :( ).

    RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE.

    KIO SMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASH.

    I DEMAND RP WITH YOU, LITTLE ONE.
  • AlaryAlary
    You know, I agree with everything here. Here's another thing I'd like to add. I love (mostly) everyone ooc, you can ask anyone. Hell, I hung out with nothing but enemies at a meet. Fun fact, it's a game. Another fun fact, it's a gorram roleplaying game. We are (mostly) not our characters, unless Morkarion secretly goes around wearing a beak and eating people with it(I personally would find this hilarious). 
    But yeah, grief back people! Give us the fight we want. When I go chop down EtherSeren trees by myself, I'm looking for people to come rip me apart. It's what I do.

    Mysrai, the Beckoner Beyond the Maze intones, "Continue to manifest the paradigm of working, My Alary."
    The Divine voice of Camus the Cinderfly echoes in your head, "Thank you, once-body. I am happy that I fell into that eye."
    image
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    Truefax: kio doesn't hate you irl.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • TurnusTurnus The Big Bad Wolf
    Don't really know what prompted this thread, but I'll be the contrary voice and say, if you're attacking people randomly, especially if they don't have a chance at fighting back (even if you think there's IC reason), you really shouldn't be surprised if they complain.

    It overall seems silly to complain about somebody you killed complaining.

    Also on a side note, if everybody joined the winning org (or just leaves the losing one) Lusternia would be an incredibly dull game and would really be a pretty unhealthy for the state for things overall.

    ~--------------**--------------~

    The original picture of Turnus is still viewable here, again by Feyrll.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    Things not to do if Kio or someone else is griefing you.

    1: make an alt to try and grief kio back. This just leads to more butthurt and gets your alt killed as well.

    2: complain about fairness and "honor". Griefers are there to kill you and drink your tears, not have a fair fight with a handshake at the end.

    3: kill some newbies. This is a no no. I've done this before in a rage and got a stern talking-to by Mommy Estarra.

    4: Send him OOC threats and insults. This is asinine.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    Turnus said:

    Don't really know what prompted this thread, but I'll be the contrary voice and say, if you're attacking people randomly, especially if they don't have a chance at fighting back (even if you think there's IC reason), you really shouldn't be surprised if they complain.


    It overall seems silly to complain about somebody you killed complaining.

    Also on a side note, if everybody joined the winning org (or just leaves the losing one) Lusternia would be an incredibly dull game and would really be a pretty unhealthy for the state for things overall.
    As an aside, people to tend to afk and not help defense shouldn't throw rocks.

    /notanattack
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    Though I generally agree with you, I don't think Kio is looking for "Lusternia street cred" or some sort of intangible reward for rp. He's simply what he can, and that is seeking out his enemies an slaying or converting them. That's sort of Glomdoring's way. (see: Eodh).

    If you feel that Kio's rp is weak and not easily justified, would you feel that Kio saying, "Oh, look. There's my enemy, but I'll have mercy on him because that's what glomdoring does and I killed him recently" is better?
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    I've been on both sides of the griefing, but I tend to make my characters in the underdog/losing side. I've been on the receiving end of people like Narsrim, who would solo Crow Aspects constantly as a Cantor, and the only pitiful defense was a midbie Ninjakari named Shaddus while Glom cowered on prime hoping Narsrim would go away.

    I've been stalked for months on end by people like Narsrim, Talkan, Ethelon. I've decapped afk Serens/Celestians on prime and spored out. Griefing is going to happen, rp or no. At least Kio tries to put some rp into it instead of wanton killing like Takami.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • TurnusTurnus The Big Bad Wolf
    Didn't realize I was throwing any stones here ;)

    I don't really know (or to be honest care) about Kio's specifics. Just pointing out people complain when they die and you shouldn't be surprised if they do when you kill em.

    ~--------------**--------------~

    The original picture of Turnus is still viewable here, again by Feyrll.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    Turnus said:

    Didn't realize I was throwing any stones here ;)

    I don't really know (or to be honest care) about Kio's specifics. Just pointing out people complain when they die and you shouldn't be surprised if they do when you kill em.
    He's not surprised they're complaining, he's urging them not to be surprised when he attacks them, and to seek out ways icly to give him reasons not to kill them.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk
    If people still complain over being killed,

    they should probably play a game with a reset button.
    2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
  • KioKio
    Turnus said:
    Don't really know what prompted this thread, but I'll be the contrary voice and say, if you're attacking people randomly, especially if they don't have a chance at fighting back (even if you think there's IC reason), you really shouldn't be surprised if they complain.

    It overall seems silly to complain about somebody you killed complaining.

    Also on a side note, if everybody joined the winning org (or just leaves the losing one) Lusternia would be an incredibly dull game and would really be a pretty unhealthy for the state for things overall.

    Pause.  I'll respond to this, because it's actually relevant and is missing the point.

    The first point is, if you don't like Kio killing you because you're an enemy, fix being an enemy.

    The second point is, if you're having a problem with someone and think they are legitimately "griefing" you, do something about it.  Don't be a victim.  Speak up (but not run to the forums).  Ask the person who's "griefing" you why they're doing it.  If it's something that can be resolved ICly afterward, do that.  If talking to the person doesn't do anything, issue it.

    Do not just up and quit because you feel like there's someone out there with a personal, OOC grudge against you, because that's just darned silly.

    Oh.  And if you don't want ganked while hunting, don't gank other people.  Learn from @Xenthos:

    Kio: "OooooooooooOooOOooo... [person] is RIGHT THERE on the next sphere over. CAN I GO KILL [him/her/it]."

    Xenthos: "No, unless you don't want to come to my hunts anymore, because I' don't want them to gank the people who have trusted me to keep them alive."

    Kio: "Oh, okay.  Yessir, Xenthos sir!"
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    Generally I don't find pk particularly griefy, unless it's very repetitive and singular with no provocation on the part of the victim. 

    What I find to be really griefy is screwing with quests repeatedly or doing other such similar things that are really quite impossible to effectively stop, counter, or even react to (except to turn red in the face and hope the griefer gets bored). Get ganked once while hunting, tough. Someone follows you around to all your bashing places and bashes them out before you can while taunting you... kinda griefy. Or elder trees, don't even get me started.

    On the other hand, for many people, the proverbial "Pull your socks up and fight back" platitude just isn't a reality. Nor is "Grief them right back" a decent answer for the majority of players. So, eh. The best answer (when you've been ganked while hunting) is to go on an aetherbash or get a group together to bash back the xp and move on. Chances are, if you don't bitch about it, it won't happen again. 
  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk
    I agree with Enyalida about the biggest griefing things in Lusternia possible is griefing people's quests.

    And on that note.

    A personal thank you to everyone for not putting the Spire back up. I may finally be able to get to delete CHELP SPIRE and move it to somewhere less important.
    2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
  • ShuyinShuyin The pug life chose me.
    I'm 50/50 about getting angsty reactions from victims.

    It titillates me when they start with the insults (especially since I try my best not to start with the talking) but I also still have a conscience.

    Griefer's life is tough, man.
    image
  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk
    Sounds like someone is slacking.

    If you don't have at least 7 people on your status list, you aren't a griefer.
    2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens.
    The ultimate issue is this, you want the game to be fun for people and no one wants to drive people out of the game.

    At the same time, Lusternia is probably the most RP strict games I've played, with regards to character actions, character motivation and justification. Metagame is very much frowned on and even punishable in some variations. So when it makes sense to do ICly, but OOCly you're going to give someone a bad day who wins? Do you go down the winding road of OOC compromises for IC actions, or do you rip their head off and tell their spirit "Harden up, Princess"?

    Because essentially, DIYDDIYD.

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


    image
  • KioKio
    edited September 2013
    Shuyin said:

    I'm 50/50 about getting angsty reactions from victims.


    It titillates me when they start with the insults (especially since I try my best not to start with the talking) but I also still have a conscience.

    Griefer's life is tough, man.

    Teehee, titillates.
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