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Organisational RP. Idealist perceptions vs reality.
Karlach
God of Kittens.
First off I want to stress that this is meant to be a civil discussion, and that it isn't to de-evolve into arguments on who's idea is better or how the admin/other players have forever ruined X/Y/Z. Thanks.
I'm curious as to how people view their organisation (or even other organisations) with their opinion of the concept of said organisation should be, and the reality they see portrayed in game.
For example, I always believed Glomdoring to be ruthlessly violent and manipulative, to a degree this is true, but I expected it to be pushed even further. The fact in it's early existence the Glomdoring was under attack with the intent to destroy it, I believed the merciless nature would now turn around with a view to crush threats before they ever gain the strength to be a threat. There's (rather OOCly motivated) a sense of honour and mercy of "there's no challenge/honour in attacking them, it'd be one sided." Which OOCly is great and is aimed to let more people enjoy the game, but ICly it's not Glomdoring, not "without mercy." Honour and challenge isn't what a servant of the Wyrd should be striving for, the best defence should be a strong, constant and unrelenting offence to ensure the prosperity of the Wyrd.
I also feel Crow has become a comedy character, the fall guy. The master trickster and manipulator becomes the "OH MY GOD, THEY KILLED KENNY!" line in Events. Doing the Dark Savant arc shows so much potential for Crow, and I feel it's not developed as much in Glomdoring's culture as it should be.
I'm very much interested in hearing other people's opinions, and seeing if any trends appear in people's perception, be they idealist or reality.
I'm curious as to how people view their organisation (or even other organisations) with their opinion of the concept of said organisation should be, and the reality they see portrayed in game.
For example, I always believed Glomdoring to be ruthlessly violent and manipulative, to a degree this is true, but I expected it to be pushed even further. The fact in it's early existence the Glomdoring was under attack with the intent to destroy it, I believed the merciless nature would now turn around with a view to crush threats before they ever gain the strength to be a threat. There's (rather OOCly motivated) a sense of honour and mercy of "there's no challenge/honour in attacking them, it'd be one sided." Which OOCly is great and is aimed to let more people enjoy the game, but ICly it's not Glomdoring, not "without mercy." Honour and challenge isn't what a servant of the Wyrd should be striving for, the best defence should be a strong, constant and unrelenting offence to ensure the prosperity of the Wyrd.
I also feel Crow has become a comedy character, the fall guy. The master trickster and manipulator becomes the "OH MY GOD, THEY KILLED KENNY!" line in Events. Doing the Dark Savant arc shows so much potential for Crow, and I feel it's not developed as much in Glomdoring's culture as it should be.
I'm very much interested in hearing other people's opinions, and seeing if any trends appear in people's perception, be they idealist or reality.
The divine voice
of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations,
Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
1
(c) Iron Realms Entertainment 2012.
Comments
We can certainly deal with outsiders if it's in our best interests to do so, but deep in our hearts we shouldn't think of them as equals. Someone from Serenwilde or Glomdoring is, at best, a noble savage. You might be able to trust them, and you might even like them, but they're still savages and their lifestyle is fundamentally wrong. People from other cities, except for Gaudiguch, are civilized people, but they are actively refusing to live the proper way. Gaudiguch is a sickening and contemptible place, where people revel in their idiocy. We should hate it, and we should never even entertain the possibility that it might be right in any regard. We have a super weapon that is known to have nearly destroyed our city last time it was fired, and we hate Gaudiguch so much that we're keeping it pointed at them anyway. We should be willing to assimilate individuals from Gaudiguch, however, and consider it a triumph of our obviously superior ideology. We shouldn't trust those converts, of course. They might be tainted by their nation. I do think that people are generally too open to outsiders and too accepting of them, overall, but I can see a lot of wiggle room here as some people prioritize dealing with outsiders with an eye to assimilation or exploitation, while others might be more paranoid about them as a threat and others simply look at them pragmatically with an eye to maximizing the Collective's gains in dealing with them.
Internally, there should be a great respect for organizations. The guilds, families, orders, and so forth. They're almost like miniature Collectives, after all. People should take pride in them, and work to make them better. There's a lot of room for competition in here, with people trying to make their family appear to be the most useful to Hallifax and taking great pride in it. The others might be rivals, but it should be rare for that sort of competition to devolve into actual enmity. Indeed, many individuals should have friends from other organizations. I'm a Windwhisper, and therefore have a hereditary propensity to be better than the Shevats, but that doesn't mean that I can't have a great deal of respect and affection for, say, @Irillia.
I think that can extend to a lot of areas, but it probably shouldn't cross the castes. The artists and scientists are equal castes and so they can compete to prove their superiority, but they shouldn't be in competition with the warriors. The warriors have an entirely different role, after all. It's just not a reasonable comparison. Like should compete with like, essentially. As @Isune's Weaver it's entirely proper for me to hold a great festival in her honor to show up the people who pray to Zvoltz, but I'm not trying to make her order look more useful than the Aeromancers. There's a lot of room for internal goodness here, and I don't think it really happens at all. I think that the Collective should be layers of disparate parts working together for the greater good, and right now it seems somewhat more homogenous.
Quite curious as to how other Hallifax people see things.
Regarding Serenwilde RP, it's pretty weak right now. Serenwilde as presented in the histories and in the early news posts is not the Serenwilde of today. But, there's definitely a core group of players actively working to bring back some of the older, deeper aspects of Serenwilde--the aspects of Winter, being somber, death, but the hope for new life; being a place where civilization is actively shunned and viewed with suspicion; reconnecting with the Celtic/tribal feel and the importance of ancestor spirits; understanding itself to be the last place where the life and healing force of the world exists.
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
The Caste system was tied into city rank when hallifax first came out. Just look at all the complaints that made. I think that worked out great. Sure the fighters wouldn't be that high of a rank, and influencers probably wouldn't get all three city skills, but when you place such importance on art and scholarly and tie that into cityrank you are bound to annoy people who don't actively enjoy that.
As for RP in Glomdoring, For RP in general I feel that it is a hit or miss really depending where you go. I loved the minor things that Viravain did back when I saw her active. With how small some of the guilds are these days (sure, with school starting up, I know numbers will be lower), I think it is a bit of 'where do I exactly go for this RP'. I would love to see a bit more of the elitist-ness, no mercy, in Glomdoring in some aspects. or maybe it is just because I never learned where to look for rp and there is tons of stuff happening all the time.
Having played the first warrior in Hallifax as well as the first Guardian (rogue Celestine), I can understand why people got frustrated. When I would defend continuum/air/villages, I was generally told that "it was my duty" and that promotions weren't in order, I owed it to the people who stood around and wrote poetry or hypothesized about the PH balance in Balach Swamp.
I can remember being denied founder status in the Institute because my character was a combatant/defender instead of a "scientist"; even though I singlehandedly paid for not only the astrolabe in the guildhall but also the guildhall tutor's stockroom, I wasn't recognised for it at all beyond a "Thank you, citizen."
I for one am glad the caste system didn't keep. It wasn't sustainable, it was poisonous to the player environment, and it led to some very dissatisfied shaddus-alts.
/endrant
Having said that, I believe a place should be able to rework their rp. Serenwilde would do well to move from a passive, sunny place to an introverted, cold, harsh, xenophobic forest whose primary goal is to tear down the cities and roads, starting with Alabaster.
Mag has formal laws restricting elfen, merian, and kepheran access to the Necropolis, yes. I think the core difference is that with celest at least viscanti are restricted based on physical objections, specifically the presence of taint. Mag's to my knowledge can be traced to fainite policies put in place before Glomdoring came back. With halli/gaudi, on the other hand, it's more a clash of ideals, so as long as they think the right way there's no objection.
When I talk about caste system, I'm not talking about the original instantiation of it, which I suspect came direct from Elostian(Cririk)/Estarra and was obviously flawed. Like I said, it doesn't need to be associated with mechanical bonuses. City rank and caste are no longer associated. But I believe 100% that warriors should be treated differently than artists in Hallifax, at least on the social level! Of course you can't be a founder of the Institute if you're not a scientist. You should have gotten at least a CF or two for what you did, sure, but that's how things were then and I don't think the players were particularly at fault.
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
But I believe 100% that warriors should be treated differently than artists in Hallifax, at least on the social level! Of course you can't be a founder of the Institute if you're not a scientist.
Though I generally agree with you on this, 90% of the people who were "Scientists" didnt do much in the Aeromancers, and a good third of them had been out of the Portal for about a week, as opposed to an experienced guardian who had been in the city almost since it had been refounded.
My most known Glom, Vitas, got most of his circles (and all of his commune ranks) from battle, and fully half from decapping Afk Serens in their own forest. You have no idea how many times he'd kill someone, spore out, offer their corpse, and almost instantly receive an angry tell demanding a spar or duel.
But he didn't care, he wasn't interested in honour or glory or praise. He wasn't even interested in advancing in the commune. All he wanted to do was kill people and serve the commune, and he did it.
NARF!
On an OOC basis, I would *love* Crow to wipe the floor clean and live up to his 'Scourge of the Heart of Darkness' title... to be a Spirit that really does make people fearful. But while we don't have that, I've managed to reconcile his actions to be 'exactly what he planned all along'.
For example, during the Xynthin event, Night was like "Xynthin is the answer" in her prophesy (and turns out, she was wrong, or... wrong because something went wrong -- which is still wrong), and Crow was uber quiet about his intentions. Eventually Crow followed Xynthin around and seemed to be deferring to Him. Svorai was beside herself because Crow was following Xynthin, and giving every indication that things were okay. So in the aftermath, she came to realise the whole affair was a test of her own character, and a test for the greater Glomdoirng. A good disciple of Crow has faith that the future is sure, that nothing can prevent what must be. And eventually his actions meant that everything was, in fact, okay. She should have played along, not gotten upset over his perceived inaction. He had to follow Xynthin, because if he didn't, who knows what Xynthin would have done -- maybe He wouldn't have trapped Himself in the Wheel after all?
There are times when I wish Glomdoring could be a whole lot meaner than it is. The people who play there are just too gosh darn nice! Plus we get told we're griefing... lame.
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
Lusternia is not a game where you can totally ignore things like combat and conflict and hope to succeed. Success brings better quality of life, and that, along with an inclusive community, brings population. Lusternia is also not a book-and-play-writing game. That is one component, but we are continually told that Lusternia is a conflict game, full of conflict quests and recurring conflict bouts that require participation.
The caste system in Hallifax is far from dead, it's just been streamlined into [one diminishing clique] and [everybody else]. I've talked to a lot of people in Hallifax about this, and even those who do spend the majority of their time contriving elaborate scientific/engineering projects, writing books, or making plans for artistic/theatre oriented activities feel as though they are outsiders unrecognized for their efforts. But they like the relative calm and quiet, so they are content to just get on with things, demurely disgruntled.
Collectivism and the Caste System are inherently at odds. If every person is a valuable component to the whole, then logic dictates that if an Elite Caste emerges, it should consist of those who contribute the most. They would be the most well-rounded, and show the greatest exertion for the betterment of the org. They improve themselves, and help to improve others because it improves the whole.
On Hallifax it is down on paper that this is not the case. They say, "That's nice and all, but we are mainly concerned with arts and sciences."
The problem is that they have never integrated "the stuff that playing Lusternia primarily consists of" with art or science - and it would be so easy to do. The things required of players during domoths, flares, revolts, &c are prescribed and procedural. There are tested methods of success, which can be honed and continually refined. That is science. Combat itself, as well as various combat situations (tactics), require finesse, elegance, ingenuity, and creativity. That is art. "The Art of War" is not just a catchy title. We're all GoT fans here, right? Just because he only paints in red doesn't make him less an artist.
I'm baffled as to why the players of Hallifax have never embraced this viewpoint. It could be so good.
I'm not saying that Hallifax should be only this, but it needs to do a better job of marrying its premise to the game world, rather than trying to create something that only exists apart from "the rabble." We 'live' in the rabble, even in Hallifax.
As for the snootiness and the extremely rigid formality...
My point of view has always been that any org's negative components should be directed outward, rather than inward. So whereas Glomdoring might be all about deceit and obfuscation, you shouldn't lie to your orgmates, for example. While Magnagora may venerate the ruthless pursuit of personal glory, they shouldn't necessarily be doing it at the cost of their internal infrastructure. Gaudiguch might be about chaos and freedom, but they shouldn't do it at the cost of the most basic order and civility inside the city.
These are all things which have been problematic in the past, and are, imo, problematic for Hallifax now. It's pretty unreasonable to carry on being a snooty elitist when you're lucky to maintain a 6% share of the game's population day to day. You'll end up with no one to look down on but Fraesic and the Comptrollers (and even they cop an attitude).
Vive l'apostrophe!
First I've ever heard of it. Is Maellio one of the many people you've talked to?
My point of view has always been that any org's negative components should be directed outward, rather than inward."
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
That doesn't inspire me to try again on the org level, nor should the burden rest entirely on me and Maellio, who I assure you hears more than enough feedback from me on a variety of issues. This is something that should be an org-wide interest. What baffles me is that it never has been.
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The fact that you don't see being openly rude to other Hallifaxians as a "negative component" is part of the problem for me.
And again, I'm not certainly not saying that 'the art of war' should be all there is. I'm saying that, contrary to what you posted above, a player who excels at the art of combat should be allowed equal respect as a player that excels at the art of play-writing. Recognizing new fields in academia does not diminish the existing ones - it expands them. That is the ideal. Open, not closed.
Why are you so keen in limiting our fantasy world to the arbitrary quantifiers of "books and plays" when it comes to establishing what makes a worthwhile contributor? And why would anyone given the opportunity to craft the ideal embrace and encourage the very problems that malign the real world art and intellectual communities (snobbery and elitism)?
Vive l'apostrophe!
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."