Order Realm GodMob Immunities

Xenthos

>---------------------------[ Changelog Entry #322 ]--------------------------<
   Entered by: The Oneiroi, Administrators of Fate Date: 2013-05-24 04:22:13

   o Some godrealm denizens will now return as invulnerable for 8 hours
   after being influenced with empowerment by an order member (they will
   still get any blessings they would for influencing).
   
   o These same godrealm denizens, if slain, will also  be invulnerable for
   8 hours upon their return.
   
   o Any godrealm denizen that is invulnerable will be noted so by how they
   look in the room and how they appear when targetted or on INFO HERE.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------<

What exactly does this mean, when it says "some"?  Is this referring to specific quest NPCs, and not the bulk of the mobs wandering around?

Raezon

It is referring to the mobs which you can influence for the blessing effects.

Xenthos

Raezon said:

It is referring to the mobs which you can influence for the blessing effects.

Er... there's a slight problem with this then.

God realm mobs are aggressive to order enemies and they track.  Whether they have a room message or not, if they wander into your room they will then chase you around permanently, and you are then pretty much done for.  Especially in realms with a lot of mobs.

I'm also unsure why the change was made.  I could see making them not respawn for 4 hours after being murdered (to mirror the empowerment end, and I imagine the intent is to slow down raiding of certain realms that basically never run out of mobs to bash), but why another 4 hours of basically super-God-mode defensive prowess on top of that?

Especially because that now means you can keep your Order mobs from ever being killed.  Influence them, and then there is a 4 hour window after they respawn where they are immune to ever being preyed upon.

Feels like it went a bit too far, if it's affecting all of the loyal influencables.

Shuyin

Because godrealm raids were happening too frequently and need to be discouraged.

Karlach

Godrealm raids have been going on for ages, with entire orders being cleaned out for months on end, why suddenly now?

Alacardael

Because now raiders come back every 4 hours to kill newly-spawned Order mobs.

Also, they won't track you if you...leave the godrealm? You just raided an entire godrealm. Do you really want to sit there and kill any ordermember that comes to fix the place up again?

Alacardael

Nevermind, see post above!

Lothringen

Hey, some god realms are excellent bashing grounds.

Xenthos

Alacardael said:

Because now raiders come back every 4 hours to kill newly-spawned Order mobs.

Then give them a 1-hour grace period, during which they act exactly as if they had Grace; they do not attack, they do not assist others near them, they basically plead exhaustion (but can be influenced).

That gives enough time to go in and try to get them before they are murdered again, but they don't just turn into an invulnerable defensive force.

If that's the reasoning, at least, there are better ways to go at it than the one that was taken IMO.

Alacardael

Xenthos said:

Alacardael said:

Because now raiders come back every 4 hours to kill newly-spawned Order mobs.

Then give them a 1-hour grace period, during which they act exactly as if they had Grace; they do not attack, they do not assist others near them, they basically plead exhaustion (but can be influenced).

That gives enough time to go in and try to get them before they are murdered again, but they don't just turn into an invulnerable defensive force.

If that's the reasoning, at least, there are better ways to go at it than the one that was taken IMO.

That would just make raiders sit on the godrealm for 1 hour, wait out the time, and resume killing. They'll have a much easier time, too: the mobs won't all come out of Grace at the same time (because they were not killed at the same time). Raiders could then pick out the un-Graced mobs in the middle of Graced mobs, and work their way down again.

Synkarin

Alacardael said:

Because now raiders come back every 4 hours to kill newly-spawned Order mobs.

Also, they won't track you if you...leave the godrealm? You just raided an entire godrealm. Do you really want to sit there and kill any ordermember that comes to fix the place up again?

lol no they don't, When was the last time this really happened? People raid when they want to raid, not to kill godmobs every 4 hours.

Xenthos

Also note that I'm posing these concerns as someone who doesn't really godrealm raid; closest I've been was exploring Eventru's after it got wiped clean the other day for a few more explorer points (didn't even touch the two priestesses that had survived and decided to escort me on my adventures).

I don't have a personal stake on the argument (either as a defender or an aggressor), but instead a third party who is looking at this change and coming away befuddled.

Karlach

Alacardael said:

Because now raiders come back every 4 hours to kill newly-spawned Order mobs.

They've been doing that for ages. As I said, what's new now?

Xenthos

Alacardael said:

Xenthos said:

Alacardael said:

Because now raiders come back every 4 hours to kill newly-spawned Order mobs.

Then give them a 1-hour grace period, during which they act exactly as if they had Grace; they do not attack, they do not assist others near them, they basically plead exhaustion (but can be influenced).

That gives enough time to go in and try to get them before they are murdered again, but they don't just turn into an invulnerable defensive force.

If that's the reasoning, at least, there are better ways to go at it than the one that was taken IMO.

That would just make raiders sit on the godrealm for 1 hour, wait out the time, and resume killing. They'll have a much easier time, too: the mobs won't all come out of Grace at the same time (because they were not killed at the same time). Raiders could then pick out the un-Graced mobs in the middle of Graced mobs, and work their way down again.

I don't even get where you're coming from here.

You kill all the mobs.  If it takes them 4 hours to respawn, you're not going to just sit there for 4 hours and wait.  There's plenty of time to fix it up, raise your defenses, and be prepared if you so choose.  There would also be a whole hour window where you can influence the things while they are invulnerable, which you did not get under the original scenario; you could just re-murder them as they respawned (and also would not defend each other).

Lerad

Hey, this is a great change. Godrealms are now 100% bashing/influencing places. Defenders don't even need to defend anymore, they know their mobs will be 100% invulnerable for the next 8 hours after the mobs get killed, so there's not even a need to rush in to try and influence them to deny raiders the respawns. Without defenders, there will be zero reason to raid for anything other than bashing purposes. We can finally open up a whole plethora of new off-plane bashing areas. Make half of the godrealms weak to excorable the other half weak to divinus, and we even address bashing disparity! (Don't forget to give the physicals some love!)

Finally, people who want to raid will have to go to places where there are actual defenses like discretionaries to deal with. Raiding a godrealm for a fight? Naw, you come to my ethereal plane with my discretionaries, or no deal. I applaud this change. Less raiding for raiding's sake.

Lothringen

Increased frequency of raids is literally the only consequence of having giant, well-populated realms. They're bound to attract attention.

There's also a reason for the focus on god realms as far as raiding goes, and that's because they aren't subject to free discretionary powers like other raidable planes are. For those of us who poke places looking for a fight, there's little point trying Celestia when they're just going to ripple, distort, invasion, and call it a day.

Edit: Also, sweet gold.

Alacardael

I don't even get where you're coming from here.

You kill all the mobs.  If it takes them 4 hours to respawn, you're not going to just sit there for 4 hours and wait.  There's plenty of time to fix it up, raise your defenses, and be prepared if you so choose.  There would also be a whole hour window where you can influence the things while they are invulnerable, which you did not get under the original scenario; you could just re-murder them as they respawned (and also would not defend each other).

That would be a splendid idea -- if you have defenses to raise. If you'll notice the deathsights the past few days, however, you'll notice that Team North has little counter against crucify+warriors (and the little they have is getting a bit little-er over time). It is kind of tiring when Team North players already know to log off during 1-6pm (my time), because that's when Team South does a couple of rounds of Celestia/EthSeren/godrealms (it's nice that Hallifax is rarely touched, though :bd).

Karlach

And the difference between this and when Celest was hitting all the Mag realms around the clock about 8-10 months ago is?

Seriously, back then it was "defend your realms better" I don't get why this change was determined to be necessary.

Xenthos

Alacardael said:

I don't even get where you're coming from here.

You kill all the mobs.  If it takes them 4 hours to respawn, you're not going to just sit there for 4 hours and wait.  There's plenty of time to fix it up, raise your defenses, and be prepared if you so choose.  There would also be a whole hour window where you can influence the things while they are invulnerable, which you did not get under the original scenario; you could just re-murder them as they respawned (and also would not defend each other).

That would be a splendid idea -- if you have defenses to raise. If you'll notice the deathsights the past few days, however, you'll notice that Team North has little counter against crucify+warriors (and the little they have is getting a bit little-er over time). It is kind of tiring when Team North players already know to log off during 1-6pm (my time), because that's when Team South does a couple of rounds of Celestia/EthSeren/godrealms (it's nice that Hallifax is rarely touched, though :bd).

That's been the case for every organization in the game.

It does not really justify a change that makes it preferable to not even defend your godrealms when they are under attack.

With this change, you can either:
1) Defend the godrealm and possibly die, or
2) Just turn off loyalsays for a bit, and then ~5 hours later you can head up to your godrealm and influence them away knowing that you are immune to any assault whatsoever, because all of the mobs which you so blatantly ignored just a scant few hours before are now enjoying a period of immunity.
- Repeat as needed, making sure to wait long enough that they have all respawned and are going to be around to provide you with an unbreakable shield of security.

Silvanus

I liked Godrealm raids.

They really had no negative effect on players for not defending.

But most importantly, they were free of ripple/forest/flux/distort/crazyfreepower. 

Almost how raids used to be.

Alacardael

Silvanus said:

I liked Godrealm raids.

They really had no negative effect on players for not defending.

But most importantly, they were free of ripple/forest/flux/distort/crazyfreepower. 

Almost how raids used to be.

I'd rather the administration just open up more bashing grounds, rather than have players treat godrealms as such.

Xenthos

Alacardael said:

Silvanus said:

I liked Godrealm raids.

They really had no negative effect on players for not defending.

But most importantly, they were free of ripple/forest/flux/distort/crazyfreepower. 

Almost how raids used to be.

I'd rather the administration just open up more bashing grounds, rather than have players treat godrealms as such.

They've told us over and over and over again that more bashing areas takes a lot of time, so we can't expect that to happen on demand.

Lerad

Hey, are you all just ignoring me? I pointed out that we now HAVE new bashing areas: the godrealms are basically an exp farm (and occasional RP venue) now. There's no reason to seek PK in godrealms anymore, and they are no longer a conflict zone. They have been converted into bashing areas.

Thalkros

This IS kind of eyeroll material for someone like me who is in an Order that used to be on the raid chain for hours out of every day, days at a time, for weeks, for a long stretch of time. It just seems pretty odd that if you're in an Order with only about 20 mobs the answer to constant raiding was 'lolinfluence more', but if you have 200 mobs it's "let's alter the way realm mobs work to make them less raidable."

I understand the intent behind the change, to make constant raiding less griefy for Order members, but let's be serious. It wasn't done for Raezon's, Morgfyre's, Mysrai's, or any other Godrealm that gets raided. It was 100% done for one Order only when it became a problem, I think if they just came right out and said that we'd all nod our heads go 'haha, we won the game.' and move on. Of course, not that we probably won't do that already >_> 

Kio

I just... this just... I don't...

Can someone please, PLEASE explain to me why any sort of raiding (especially raiding that has been on a decently predictable schedule with ample time to prepare) is considered bad, annoying, or griefing?  I just... don't get it.  This is a game about conflict.  We're supposed to fight each other.  In fact, every single organization pretty much wants to see the rest of them dead, gone, or assimilated, I thought.

You don't like having your territories raided?  You don't like having your Godrealm raided?  Don't start pleading with the admin to change the mechanics.  Start pleading with the other damn players in your alliance that don't like it, get together, strike up some freaking RP, start talking about strategies, and practice defending the things.  Why is that so hard to do?

Listen, I'm not going to sit here and complain if Serenwilde, Celest, and Hallifax start bombarding Ethereal Glomdoring.  I'm not even going to complain if they start coming in and chopping trees (granted, I don't really understand the entire process of this, and only know that it's an enormous pain to deal with).  Why?  It's a freaking game that revolves around player conflict.  There's no sense in pouting and being upset that your enemy is trying to kill you and take your stuff away.  That's what they're supposed to be doing!

You guys are mad because people are killing your 200 priestesses or your 20 whatever-it-is-that-Fain-has-or-had?  Do something about it.  No.  I take that back.  Do something about it ICly.  You guys are too weak, too lazy, too unorganized, too sour that a couple of people on our side have a skill that makes you die fairly quickly in a group even though you all have plenty of things that are just as terrible?  Well, these are all things that you can fix.  Too weak? Practice some more.  Too lazy?  You don't really deserve a right to complain.  Too unorganized?  Start talking with each other about how you can do better instead of how terrible you're doing now.  All these crazy things we can do to you?  Figure out how to counter them with teamwork.

And before anyone gets their feelings hurt by some newbie calling them out, the same goes for our side.  The only thing is, our side isn't complaining about things at the moment.  If we do start complaining, I'll say the exact same thing.  No one here is entitled to having their hands held as they stroll merrily through the Basin of Life picking wild flowers.  There are people that hate you, and with good IC reason.  They want to kill you.  They want to see your family maimed, skewered, and on display.  Deal with it.

Sorry for that rant.  I just sincerely do not understand why raiding is being seen as an issue.  I don't get why there's now something put in place discouraging raiding instead of encouraging defending.

Nihta

I too, feel this change is a bit much if they are able to fight as per usual, except they are invulnerable.

Ciaran

I don't know who called for this change, but godrealm raids were the most fun thing in the game for me. Sad to see them go.

Daedalion

I really don't understand how you can possibly justify stifling pk anymore than it already is? Plane raids? Lolno. Prime raids? Lolno. Godrealm raids? Lolno. What do we have left? Domoths? And that's pretty much it.

Apparently we're all supposed to afk at the nexus and collect curios.

Alban

I feel like the current mindset is that the main ways PK should happen is in systems that were set up explicitly for it - order wars (...), revolts, flares, domoths, wild nodes.

Kio

Alban said:

I feel like the current mindset is that the main ways PK should happen is in systems that were set up explicitly for it - order wars (...), revolts, flares, domoths, wild nodes.

Then explain the conflict mechanics behind the power quests for the cities and communes.  We are directly rewarded (albeit the rewards have been dropped significantly - something I also find is counter-productive) for killing supermobs.  We are also indirectly rewarded by causing our enemies to become tied up with doing various things like having to reraise the Necromantate.  Also, killing aspects and elemental lords decreases the amount of power our enemies can bring in through essence (correct me if I'm wrong).

These are all mechanics in the game that encourage us to remember we can do things to our enemies to keep them down and keep ourselves ahead of them.

Alban

You said it yourself - the rewards have been dropped significantly. Not to mention they are super hard to kill.  So it's really not much encouragement, ipso facto, no one does it.