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Cloaking Gems (Again)
This topic keeps coming up repeatedly, so here's yet another thread on the cloaking gem! The gist of it is: New players come to Lusternia, see a QW/WHO that has just a handful of names on it, and think that the game's pretty empty despite there being a larger number actually present in the numbers below. Actually seeing that people are around would be a very good change. As such, here is a proposal.
1) WHO is expanded so that it works across all planes, like EWHO currently does, with the following limitations.
a. It does not show anyone in manses.
b. It does not show the room name of anyone not on the same plane (or possibly continent) as you are, only the character's name.
2) EWHO will continue to show the room names of anyone on a different plane/continent than you, and will still display manse rooms (ignoring rooms with a privacy gem, as it currently does). Thus it is still an upgraded version of WHO.
3) The cloaking gem will remove your location's room name from WHO and EWHO, displaying only your character name (just as if you were off-plane). If you are in a manse, the cloaking gem will remove you from the EWHO list entirely, as well.
* Optional addition: The cloaking gem has up to 1 to 2 hours of activation time per weave for a special effect. This effect will remove your name from WHO/EWHO (just as the cloaking gem currently does). This can be toggled on/off up until the total time is expended.
The final optional idea is for those individuals who state that sometimes they just want to log on and do dailies / poke at some things without actually being "around." This would hopefully help satisfy that need, while also making it something that is both an opt-in and expires so it's just not permanently left toggled on. I'm not sure it's needed myself, but I can see the appeal for something like that.
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(c) Iron Realms Entertainment 2012.
Comments
It'd just increase the visibility, make things consistent across the board, and narrow that "I don't want to be seen" to the very specific "you have to be in a private room". Cause there are reasons you might want to be in a manse but not in a private room (shopkeeping, rp, etc)
Most of the players (usually from outside of my org), I don't even know they exist unless I have deathsight and the alliance clan turned on and they happen to take part in a timequake. I can imagine it must look even worse for a newbie without any of those skills. I agree that cloaking gems should be changed to where it shows you on WHO but hides your location (much like it shows Divine who are visible), and it will still be as useful as it is for sneaky combat related stuff while not making the game look empty (to both newbies and non-newbies).
Reading the posts above I see two problems:
1.- People don't want to be seen
2.- New players can't see the population
and I though about this option:
Just change the gem to generate random names on Who for players to see.
Example:
/who witouth gems
..........................
Xenthos
Afollia
Coralina
Saran
/who with gems
......................
Chade (Xenthos with gem)
Afollia (No gem)
Coraline (no gem)
Synl (Saran with gem)
This way people won't get outed for being online and people can still see a populated game.
Names are randomly generated each time the player logs in with the active gem.
Edit: Names can be picked from the database of inactive people - It's not like we lack choice.
To respond to Coraline, another reason people want to be cloaked is to not make it readily obvious to people what they are doing - such as engaging in conflict quests, or even preparing to raid or fight, or maybe just visiting an 'enemy' org or something...it's a tool to allow you to be sneaky. When suddenly your name is visible, people can go oh look Sapphira is logged on, going to scry to see where she is. Now, of course, anyone can be scried already but perhaps no one would specifically go looking for me if my name is not revealed to them.
in the past i bought my gem specifically because it took my name off who/ewho, as there were players who would be like 'oh, some fresh pray hunting on astral' and would come and gank me. That became very tiresome to be hounded every time i stepped outside of the city so i saved up for a gem. There's many reasons people may want to hide.
i like the idea of finding a way to show the population, but while also keeping the purpose of a gem, and that is to let you avoid general notice for whatever reason that may be.
Who:
Coraline
A cloaked figure
A cloaked figure
^in that format instead of "5 cloaked figures"
It basically sounds like there is an existing tool that is the solution to this issue and the simplest thing seems to be to just replace WHO with EWHO and replace the mirror effect or offer refunds because realistically any change is going to lessen the utility of the mirror and/or gem.
Also, more broadly, rather than potentially nerfing the gem or coding halfway stuff... you could just provide positive reinforcement for the behaviour you want, people turning their gems off.
For example, they could have some form of charge that builds up as long as you're logged in with them turned off where you'd be visible (i.e currently not in manses, if manses are visible then not in private rooms). This wouldn't be a nerf which people have already expressed concern about, but rewarding players for doing the thing you want them to.
What that reward could be can vary, though one thing that comes to mind is that maybe it's completely consumed at the end of each year to boost your activity essence, though active consumers might also be neat it's mostly what would actually get the effect desired.
For example:
This is only 17 people out of the 37 that are online right now, but it still looks more active than the 4 that appear on QW. I think that would be nice for QW. And then WHO with thirdeye would show all the same names except you'd only see their location if they were on the same plane as you (and didn't have a gem active), just like currently.
This wouldn't devalue gems, and although it would devalue the mirror a little bit by showing names you don't otherwise see, the mirror is still very useful for spying because it would also show location.
I've noticed it isn't so much the case anymore, so I've actually considered trading mine in a few times. As someone who is still a bit of a novice at heart and remembers what it was like when first starting out here, the novices are the main reason I've considered doing away with mine. I enjoy helping the new guys and like them knowing I'm around and willing to help. There are also others outside of my side of the alliance that I interact with both in-game and through OOC chatter. So I was thinking... maybe we could have the WHO list show people who are mutual allies, regardless of gem ownership? That way if someone has you allied, you just ally them and they'll be able to see that you're logged in. Then if you decide "Eh, I don't like this crazy bloke anymore," unally them and you no longer show up on their WHO list, nor will they on yours. Sure, people will have to alter their ally list from time to time to make room for others, but I'm pretty certain most of us already do it more often than we'd care to admit. >.>
Just wanted to add my thoughts on the topic.
A giant panda bounds into view, flanked by a gargantuan gorilla clad in golden plate armour. They both salute as the vision fades.
When I was very new I was told "we aren't empty, people are just hiding." I don't see why it's an end of the world issue for novices to not be able to immediately see people when we have CW, newbie, and alliance clans to help them find people when they need help.
The true newbie experience is very different from newbies who have started new characters after having played extensively before on other characters, and I don't think people who aren't true newbies completely realize this - this is something Sulwh seems to agree with me on as well when we had this discussion privately.
Maybe?
There's also a bit of a question around specifics. For example, it seems super relevant to consider if those newbies are actually understanding the player count stuff at the bottom, because if they are then changing WHO may not acheieve much, particularly if they're coming from other MUDs/IREs and comparing numbers. You can also get that empty feeling if your guild or org is well... desolate which who wouldn't really help with because it doesn't really matter if there's a hundred people online elsewhere.
It's also the same with objections really. The concerns about being visible, the desire to avoid griefing, and sometimes wanting to be covert about what you're actually doing, all kinda make me wonder if maybe another way to hit things is to look at how easy it is to actually scry. It's most basic form is available to everyone through enchanting and it seems to only get better from there, maybe there needs to be some work done around that which could make people feel more comfortable being more visible (if that would actually solve things)
Edotlina, Elliora, Elyon, Embrelle, Gardai, Gelantur, Giddieon, Harlaye,
Hendrik, Ita, Kassie, Keorin, Kieva, Layta, Leofrik, Levice, Lizabel, Maajida,
Majin, Marra, Mazus, Mercer, Milabar, Minsideon, Molli, Moranda, Morthif,
Nachi, Namino, Natliya, Neisti, Nhakra, Nicolina, Nona, Novak, Perl, Phelia,
Pleak, Rasahi, Reinn, Riane, Rino, Ripple, Ryzan, Sagin, Savira, Seragorn,
Sereka, Serra, Seryphrea, Shirszae, Shri, Staria, Swikaan, Tarvius, Tashara,
Thiev, Thorgrim, Trendric, Valuk, Vie, Zalydd, Zandyr, Zylvith, and Zyrine.
Plus another 4 whose presence you cannot fully sense (75 total).
Iesid, Illidan, Jakarn, Jarrhn, Jezreth, Jhin, Kaestrin, Kurze, Lynexia, Maliki,
Menelaus, Merek, Moxie, Nebula, Pentas, Rinnek, Sekara, Sekeres, Stine, Sukii,
Vizzer, Vjeiraic, Wert, and Yeni.
There are 41 people total online with 7 people that are hidden from you.
(*) Currently, there are 4 Lusternians on this Plane and 28 on other Planes.
Is that worth it to potentially increase the game's retention? Yes.
Aet and Achaea seem to be reporting total player counts, which creates the largest possible number (potentially also including admin into the count) and note the exceptions. Ours is instead split and reporting two numbers that are both smaller than what could be reported if we just... did what the other games do. It's also interacting with the "left digit bias" for me cause that 28 is looking way lower than the 41, at least a 32 would close the gap.
There are also considerations such as if the "people that are hidden from you"/"other planes"/"you cannot fully sense" count ends up being just players in manses that could emphasise how many players are... inflating the online numbers. From what I've noted in CWHO recently, adapting WHO may not necessarily help that much, at times it's been basically half of the online players seemingly being in manses.
The issues seem to be really that people actively don't want to be visible, particularly because of the game design around scrying, and that the emptiness really isn't just perception (when I was looking Aet was closer to double ours). The game is really focused on big group activities that get a bunch of players active all at the same time but then people seem to jump off or into manses waiting for the next one, outside of those you can like... do daily credits (which you may want to be concealed for), you could design or write (which if you're not paying attention can get you hit for AFKing encouraging you to hide in a manse and not be visible), and there are things like guild stuff (i.e potentially the only times you might comfortably be visible) but low pop can make that way more difficult than its worth when there are no real mechanical incentives.
edit: Also to note, yeah a driver for gem sales is that not having them can make the game not fun, so any solution should consider whether you're trying to retain people while creating a different reason for them to leave.
That ease makes it kinda trivial to see where people are and the ensuing harassment that this has lead to over the years has already been noted as a reason for why people have bought gems. Among others sure but those others are also things that make the game fun for people that would become more difficult.
So it's rather simple, if you want to meaningfully increase visibility then you should also be looking at the reasons why we have so many players who have gems, cause let's look at it realistically... they're 400 credits each, so if they're making that big an impact why are that many people prioritising them over other artifacts? (To note: Kerith's post noted that 20 out of 37 players had gems here, compared to seemingly consistent single digits in Aetolia in Sulwh's post and my own looking there.)
Otherwise just nerfing them without looking at those reasons is likely to lead to those reasons becoming drivers for disengagement. I.e the nerf might not make Bob quit, but being more visible leading to Bob being ganked on Astral regularly could very well have that effect.
Sure, you could put up random retiree names but if newbies are trying to find someone to talk to and get bounced back cause they're not online or honour's them and realise the names are fake it can look well like the online presence could be faked. And yeah, you could put up a "cloaked person" thing but that again doesn't help with people you can actually interact with. Both would also not help with other impacts of gems like not being able to see players who can help you join a guild/org.
A similar thing happens with bringing in people out in aetherspace, they'll inflate appearances sure but they can lead to frustration because it would add in a mix of people who you can't talk to.
So, long story short, you could more effectively get the actual outcome you'd like if you looked at the broader picture. Maybe scrying needs to be reigned in, maybe the whole distance limitation on communication needs to be nixed. As previously suggested maybe it's easier to create reasons for people to want to be on prime and visible.
However, maybe we need to push ourselves outside our comfort zone a bit, as players, if we want to attract more players. Maybe we need to be in a habit of turning off our gems when it's not really necessary. I got mine so I wouldn't be bothered, but to be honest, I rarely am bothered when I turn it off. So I'm trying to keep it off by default and only turn it on when I really want privacy. I forget who suggested having it off by default when you log in, and having to activate it as a defense, but I really like that. Making it opt-in would make us more conscientious of it.
-
Just kidding. Yeah, while I can see a lot of us getting a little upset about it, it wouldn't be nearly enough to get me to quit.
A giant panda bounds into view, flanked by a gargantuan gorilla clad in golden plate armour. They both salute as the vision fades.
The only downside to implementing something like this is people using it to peek in at who is around before going for a domoth or raid.
My only suggestions for changes to things that were listed above would be keeping the names on who, but deleting their locations if they have the cloaking gems. Make manses visible, unless equipped with a privacy gem. Aetherships should be visible, locations would be difficult to work out on this one though.