It's bad, again. I know there's a back-and-forth that often happens with respect to the powerful orgs, but it doesn't shift very quickly. This means that regardless of who's on top, there are very few occasions when conflict and combat is "meaningful." If I show up to a conflict event with 0% expectation that my side will lose(regardless of what I do) - then there was no reason for me to show up. Nor for most of the people who did, on both sides. It isn't meaningful. Same as for being on the losing side, as I was there too at one point.
I don't believe this is good for the game. The lack of conflict is boring for me, as I know it is for many on the winning side, too. Seeking out more "pk" just means beating people down who already don't bother to defend their territories because they're tired of losing battles. Waiting for the balance of power to shift again is six months to a year or longer of real time. In the meantime, the game isn't much fun and some people leave, potentially forever.
There has to be some solution here. For those on team IHC, honestly: Is this fun? Why? I genuinely don't understand how it could be. Can anything be done about it, and if so, what?
Please be nice.
"Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
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I don't think there's any solution other than us getting new players, people alting until the sides are more even, or people from IHC getting bored and quitting. Obviously no one wants to see less people playing, but let's be real. That's going to be the most likely 'solution' to the numbers game and then it'll just repeat itself over and over.
I have no great ideas. I've been trying to work with people one on one but many of them just feel hopeless and that's so hard to deal with in a game where people come to relax.
Czixi, the Welkin murmurs, "Fight on, My Effervescent Sylph. I will be with you as you do."
Aian Lerit'r, Lead Schematicist exclaims to you, "A *paperwork* emergency, Chairman!
Czixi, the Welkin murmurs, "Fight on, My Effervescent Sylph. I will be with you as you do."
Aian Lerit'r, Lead Schematicist exclaims to you, "A *paperwork* emergency, Chairman!
It might not look it, but the game is hurting here. Every few days we hear more leaving, and no new blood. It saddens me that this is what the game has become. I genuinely hope solution is found to ease the suffering of so many players. I wish everyone the best.
@Lorina do what you need to do. It's been good to see you around again, though.
Czixi, the Welkin murmurs, "Fight on, My Effervescent Sylph. I will be with you as you do."
Aian Lerit'r, Lead Schematicist exclaims to you, "A *paperwork* emergency, Chairman!
Real talk here - I know all of you are saying you have no solutions, but this is broken and awful. Don't disagree, it's not great. But what are we on the 'winning' side supposed to do here? No longer engage? Stop logging in? I know that no one on our 'side' is loving having no competition, you find people come running at the first sign of conflict because they love a fight and are desperate for a taste of one. Not because they want to demoralise, not because they want to crush and be masters of the universe, but because pk is a large part of why they play the game, and they will take what they can of it!
I'm sad that people are leaving or considering leaving. I know it's not always skewed - firstly the 'off-peak' timequakes we're as often evenly matched or outnumbered as we are on the up side. Secondly I have also played on the losing side many times and endures round the clock raids and 'off-peak' raids, being ganked any time leaving prime, having no domoths or villages, being a ghost town, demoralised, beat down and generally just not wanting to even play anymore. I 100% understand where you are coming from - but things did shift. People got better at their skills. People got hungry to learn and do better. New people started to come around.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, genuinely, what can we actually do to help, and also, hang in there? Please don't give up?
But I don't know what the right answer is to that. The only ideas that have come up before were unpopular ones that made just about everyone angry. And no one should feel forced to alt or join an org if that's not where they want to play. I'd do it myself before I told someone else to, and... I don't want to. The imbalance is still a problem, though.
Edit: Added to this, @Sapphira, is I completely understand where the "pkers" are coming from in going to conflict events, too, or in raiding. No one should feel bad for playing a game in a way that's fun for them (provided they aren't breaking the rules or deliberately harassing other players) but if the end result of doing that is fewer people engaging(either side), then there's a problem.
Winning means bonuses, it means villages so you have comms and the like coming in, you have bubbles so you can actually have more than one construct, you can get those nice research powers, it feels good, you get points for orgcredits. Trying to have more even fights is just... kinda inherently negative for the stronger side except for maybe being more fun for the combatants. And really, even if one side asked people to sit out if the fight started going against them... you could just call those people in.
From so much time on both sides, these are the ideas I've had over the years.
- Maybe something mechanical that encourages the strongest orgs to go against each other rather than working together.
- Insert a step between winning and the reward for conflict. Kinda like timequakes really. Winning gives anoms, anoms go into research. Because of this you can trade, orgs can make agreements about stuff, and you can create other ways to get them.
- Alliance mechanics could help move to more structured conflict stuff? Like idk, you could make domoth stage 2 take place inside a "domoth bubble" and only five people from an alliance can enter at once. People could tag in or something, death timers might also lock out another ally from entering, etc.
idk, for me when I was experiencing it, and even just as a non-com, when the state of alliances felt bad I wanted other ways to help my org feel good. Yes, you can rp and write and the like, but having mechanical stuff you can work to and focus on as a positive seems like it could help especially where that stuff is what you'd get from winning.If you could just have additional constructs in your nexus world but there was a maintenance cost that you got from owning bubbles, then you could create other ways to get that benefit so if an org isn't doing so well in flares the leaders could focus more on the other ways and kinda hopefully make it less annoying?
This, in theory, might also work on the "winning" side in a way? Cause if the non-com methods of acquiring benefits are exploited then, an alliance having every aetherbubble... doesn't actually do anything.
edit: just to note, was toying with this one for a while heh. so like ten new posts since I started
There's probably a ton of small things we could do to make conflict less 'urgent' such as each org having one village that is always naturally aligned with them and it's only the others that go up for conflict. It would less pressure to try and secure something and making them less screwed when they don't/can't.
I love combat, but I think timequakes are the -best- way to get that combat itch scratched and we could and should look at other mechanics that are less numbers mean all for the overall enjoyment and health of the game.
tbh, villages might even just be less important through the economy stuff depending on which way that goes.
There's also another possible path for the "combat itch", individual focus rather than org. Rather than trying to make yet another org level conflict mechanism, maybe an answer is to make something where the only real benefit is personal that way the people participating gain something for entering but your org doesn't lose anything for not?
Has it ever really gotten better? I was away for a while but it always seems like it's pretty much always been the case, it's just which orgs are actually impacted shuffle around.
I was more thinking like... claiming an aetherbubble gives your org... idk, bubblum every weave.
Performing a quest in an aetherbubble also gives your org an amount of bubblum.
Every construct after the first in your nexus world requires bubblum to maintain. (At most equal to what you get from a bubble, or could be less than that)
This way, non-comms can contribute, if you don't win then you can focus on questing. If the winning orgs are also questing they'll likely have lessened need to actually claim the bubbles.
Maybe there's some kinda theft mechanism so orgs that start stockpiling could be hit somehow.
This also ignores why combatants participate in combat. It's not usually because they -have- to, it's because they love combat. Generating an additional feature is not going to lessen them turning up.
I realise this is just an example, but I think sometimes ideas are being generated based on the idea that people combat because they have to. It's a conflict game and people love the conflict. It won't actually do anything to address the issue, which is simply numbers and the -result- is lessened access to commodities. The suggestion of something like a village is just to remove the malus from not winning, not introducing more mechanics that can cause a conflict point.
@Yinuish is correct on the reasons why people participate in combat. I suppose what I'd really like to see is incentives for smaller-scale conflict, 2-3 on one side vs another, but only if it wasn't limited to the same two or three people every time.
Right now when I check I'm seeing:
Serenwilde: 14%
Magnagora: 22%
Gaudiguch: 15%
IHC: 51%
Glomdoring: 15%
Celest: 20%
Hallifax: 11%
Air + SL: 46%
There are also some pretty broad and encompassing statements here, sure there are people that love combat, there are also people that absolutely hate it and Lusternia is not a conflict game to them (I've encountered this more so recently than ever before and, really, it seems like when people gush about lusternia is it more centered on rp and lore).
Then there are the people that rest somewhere between that, people that will jump into a fight, people that feel like they need to, all sorts of potential drivers. I have shown up for numbers, because I needed to, even though I don't enjoy it I've defended just to try to be enough of a nuisance that they leave.
So, no, I'm not ignoring why some people participate in combat. The people that love combat are probably going to show up no matter what, but you can theoretically reduce the overall numbers on one side by making it less important to turn up the better you're doing so those people who aren't showing up just because they love it might stop and so the other side has less numbers to fight against.
No amount of mechanics can make this happen, though. It has to come from the players (and better yet, the admins via patrons). Ideally, we're all friends who play this game for fun (even though we get MAD from time to time). So, even though it might make no sense IC, we should always be nudging our orgs into positions that would equalize whatever two sides happen to be present. Achaea does this mostly by their patrons being very grump grump when their city becomes too friendly with another city; this shuts down hard-set alliances. Lusternia, with its lower population, could settle for very loose 3v3 coalitions.
I've been reading the treaties that bind the various orgs in the game; they all read pretty much the same. And they all need to be thrown out. Ad hoc (in the moment) agreements should take their place.
Right now, for example, Gaudiguch and Serenwilde should break things off with Magnagora. Not because grr Magnagorans are evil and we hates them, but because our numbers and their numbers make up more than three quarters of the active playerbase. We should (theoretically...) be mature enough that breaking off alliances doesn't mean we dislike the players from the other org; it just means that we know it's better for the game.
The patrons would need to be very active in pushing for this, though (at least until the player culture adjusts enough that they can enforce it themselves).
TL;DR - break off hard alliances; admins pls send help
EDIT! Some conflict systems should be reworked a bit so that losing isn't so bad. Right now, for example, not having enough villages would absolutely suck for your commodities because there's no real way to get comms outside of villages.
Explorer (80%), Achiever (53%), Socializer (53%), Killer (13%)
Bartle Taxonomy
(test yourself)
Also I would say a lot of our problem is that even in Celest as our most active organisation, we have a higher percentage of people who don't do combat, or are playing on their phones as compared to Magnagora. It's not a cut and dried 'people mean activity mean combatants'. That's not saying this doesn't happen in other orgs, just that when I jump across all my characters I have noticed the difference between Magnagora and Celest.