Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
- 4.8K All Categories
- 4.3K Life in Lusternia
- 464 Announce Posts
- 75 Event Posts
- 1.7K Common Grounds
- 589 Q&A
- 83 Combat Overhaul
- 1.5K World Library
- 86 Combat Logs
- 870 Event Scrolls
- 403 Mechanic's Corner
- 329 Ideas
- 314 Last Chance Trading Post
- 478 Life Outside of Lusternia
- 9 Forum News
- 275 The Real World
- 94 Meet and Greet
- 37 The Funnies
- 63 Mafia Hideout
Announce Post #3061: Ascension Postmortem
First off, I apologize for this coming this late. I was out of town this last week and I spent all day Sunday driving home (~17.5 hours) and didn't have access to post this sooner.
There are a couple of things I want to address. First off, both Aonia and I have been reading both the forums and the feedback/PVP-discussion channels on Discord. A big thank you to those of you that expressed disappointment and criticism without resorting to abuse and insults. We do value your input here and we are hearing you. We want you to know that we will never want you to hold back criticisms, disappointments or anything as long as it is done like this, without the abuse and insults. So earnestly, to those of you that did so, thank you again for that.
This Ascension proved to overall, be much more competitive than the past few years. Each event had more people participating, had leads change consistently, and felt like either side would take it at any time. We had over 100 players participate in the final Ascension, which is the most I've personally seen in a long time.
We, unfortunately, did not anticipate the extreme amount of lag that occurred. We realized that lag could be an issue, and made several changes - including delaying the start of the event to apply what hotfixes we could - but not to the extent that it was. This is entirely on us and we are taking full responsibility. It is unacceptable that it occurred and it was a failing on our part.
Here are a few things we are working on to help reduce lag in the future.
1) Adjust GMCP - we're looking at how we send GMCP messages and attempting to optimize how it is built and sent to players.
- We may additionally add 'opt-in' parameters for GMCP which will limit how much information is being sent. Details on this are not fully worked out and may not be needed, but it's something under consideration.
2) SSC curing optimization - Something we've already started, but we have a mortal coder working on SSC optimizations to speed up how that works.
- We're also looking at beast focusing here, and that may result in changes to how it interacts with SSC.
3) More caching - One of the things I did while implementing the BODYSCAN EXPERIENCE report was to cache the value and only calculate it when needed. This will reduce the number of calculations done considerably and speed things up. The XP cache likely has little impact on something like Ascension but moving towards this model will help things overall. Things like prestige, resists, buffs, etc are all recalculated every time they're used so moving towards more caching will reduce that significantly.
4) Target and refactor any particularly slow things. This is something that will be ongoing and while we have a few initial things to look at such as a few issues with beasts. This will be ongoing.
5) We are investigating our servers to ensure that no problems are originating from them in addition to our codebase.
What I do promise to do moving forward with both myself and anyone else that's working on code is to make speed a priority, especially as they pertain to PVP and large scale events.
We recognize that whilst addressing the lag problems is the most important thing, we also believe that it is vital that we make recompense to the people who lost this Ascension. Apologies made only in words are less powerful than those that come in the form of action.
To this end, we have been in discussion with both Parhelion and Ixion regarding the matter. It has been agreed between us, and all parties, that the fairest thing to do is to raise Ixion as a True Ascendant in addition to Parhelion. We will hold an event this coming Saturday, 18th July, wherein he will receive this in an in-character manner.
We hope that in conjunction with the work we are doing to reduce lag in the future, this will address the very valid concerns and feelings that were brought to us, as well as ensuring that the incredible amount of work that went into the contest is not wasted due to something out of everyone's control.
With sincere apologies,
Aonia and Orael
There are a couple of things I want to address. First off, both Aonia and I have been reading both the forums and the feedback/PVP-discussion channels on Discord. A big thank you to those of you that expressed disappointment and criticism without resorting to abuse and insults. We do value your input here and we are hearing you. We want you to know that we will never want you to hold back criticisms, disappointments or anything as long as it is done like this, without the abuse and insults. So earnestly, to those of you that did so, thank you again for that.
This Ascension proved to overall, be much more competitive than the past few years. Each event had more people participating, had leads change consistently, and felt like either side would take it at any time. We had over 100 players participate in the final Ascension, which is the most I've personally seen in a long time.
We, unfortunately, did not anticipate the extreme amount of lag that occurred. We realized that lag could be an issue, and made several changes - including delaying the start of the event to apply what hotfixes we could - but not to the extent that it was. This is entirely on us and we are taking full responsibility. It is unacceptable that it occurred and it was a failing on our part.
Here are a few things we are working on to help reduce lag in the future.
1) Adjust GMCP - we're looking at how we send GMCP messages and attempting to optimize how it is built and sent to players.
- We may additionally add 'opt-in' parameters for GMCP which will limit how much information is being sent. Details on this are not fully worked out and may not be needed, but it's something under consideration.
2) SSC curing optimization - Something we've already started, but we have a mortal coder working on SSC optimizations to speed up how that works.
- We're also looking at beast focusing here, and that may result in changes to how it interacts with SSC.
3) More caching - One of the things I did while implementing the BODYSCAN EXPERIENCE report was to cache the value and only calculate it when needed. This will reduce the number of calculations done considerably and speed things up. The XP cache likely has little impact on something like Ascension but moving towards this model will help things overall. Things like prestige, resists, buffs, etc are all recalculated every time they're used so moving towards more caching will reduce that significantly.
4) Target and refactor any particularly slow things. This is something that will be ongoing and while we have a few initial things to look at such as a few issues with beasts. This will be ongoing.
5) We are investigating our servers to ensure that no problems are originating from them in addition to our codebase.
What I do promise to do moving forward with both myself and anyone else that's working on code is to make speed a priority, especially as they pertain to PVP and large scale events.
We recognize that whilst addressing the lag problems is the most important thing, we also believe that it is vital that we make recompense to the people who lost this Ascension. Apologies made only in words are less powerful than those that come in the form of action.
To this end, we have been in discussion with both Parhelion and Ixion regarding the matter. It has been agreed between us, and all parties, that the fairest thing to do is to raise Ixion as a True Ascendant in addition to Parhelion. We will hold an event this coming Saturday, 18th July, wherein he will receive this in an in-character manner.
We hope that in conjunction with the work we are doing to reduce lag in the future, this will address the very valid concerns and feelings that were brought to us, as well as ensuring that the incredible amount of work that went into the contest is not wasted due to something out of everyone's control.
With sincere apologies,
Aonia and Orael
16
This discussion has been closed.
(c) Iron Realms Entertainment 2012.
Comments
I am not going to refrain from being upset about this unfair cop out of a solution because you told me to. The two week I've known you does not overwhelm the work we've been putting into Ascension related activities since February, or the hundred plus hours of work we put into this collectively as the underdog.
Ascension now means nothing, and that's a really sad outcome. It was the pinnacle event in all of IRE, and now it no longer is. I will not accept anyone dictating my feelings to me.
Given how many people are pissed off at me because they feel like I owe it to them to share their opinions on whether Ixion deserves to be ascendant or not, I understand completely.
I would strongly suggest that you find a more tactful way of encouraging your supporters to accept this decision than proclaiming the moral high ground with insinuations of "my way or the highway" coupled with blatant dismissals of our feelings in one fell swoop.
Edit: grammar.
Tonight amidst the mountaintops
And endless starless night
Singing how the wind was lost
Before an earthly flight
I applaud the administration for acknowledging the issue and seeking to make amends.
Choros acknowledged this is as a good outcome and approved of it. So depending on your view, he has "shared" the win.
This has eased the displeasure on the other side, who also put in quite a bit of work, including having to factor against skills that were only available on one side that lacked any counters.
Somehow, Choros ascended and the people who seem to really come off as having lost are the people who were supporting Choros, not even Choros himself. Choros is not being descended, so there is simply two winners. Some issues were noted before the event and were not handled at the time.
Somehow the only unhappy people appear to be the ones who had called themselves the winners, because they decided that this means they were not in a winning team, as if any of their work matters less now.
Regardless, I agree that there was likely no resolution to this that would keep everyone happy -- my issue is more with Parhelion's tone in the first quote I posted above.
Tonight amidst the mountaintops
And endless starless night
Singing how the wind was lost
Before an earthly flight
A final advice from a pseudo-retiree, whose opinions shouldn't hold much weight:
-Kilian
Kudos to the admin for owning up to it and seeking to address it.
But you do point to a mentality of why Ascension is so horribly toxic and will hopefully be changed next time around. Good riddance. This solution isn't perfect, but it's the most fair one that I can think of, so I'm glad they went with it.
Admin restored a lot of faith with this move, that mistakes are not only acknowledged but they seek to fix and make amends. Everyone upset that their work was 'lessened' now maybe can understand how the other side felt, that all their hard work to plan and plot and spend money and all those same things was also robbed by something out of their control. Doesn't feel nice, does it?
All these efforts to remove discrimination and racism and the like, and now this hugely bold move tells me a lot about the heart of our admin and I'm liking what they are shaping.
This is my first Ascension, but from the stories I heard, lag has always been a constant factor. The difference with this particular lag is that people knew exactly how it would play out. We raised issues about it beforehand. Xenthos, from his Discord messages, also implied that you raised issues before hand. Everyone knew, everyone raised concerns, and the admin didn't make the necessary changes beforehand. They admit that it was their bad, hence, this move.
Parhelion is still TA. He is the first (and, you could even argue, the legitimate) TA. Take the win. It is the win.
Explorer (80%), Achiever (53%), Socializer (53%), Killer (13%)
Bartle Taxonomy
(test yourself)
I posted what I did here with full intention of holding to it. If my opinion that Ixion deserves this Ascension, if not more, than I do pisses you off so much that you're willing to retire or quit, then so be it. At that time, people were more than welcome to let me know oocly in a tell or message, we could have snubbed each other, and I could have went about my way.
But it's worsened since then, partially in this thread. Like Malarious has said, it's obvious that this is more about keeping Ixion from ascending than it was ascending me, and part of me gets that. That doesn't mean I like it shoved in my face, or having people bitch about me in various places about how the admin should have had a game-wide vote, or asked the game in general. About how my ascension now means nothing, just because Ixion gets it too.
I cannot and will not be the reason people leave this game. I'm sorry. I've scheduled Parhelion and the rest of my viable characters for retirement for tomorrow. You can take this as a cry for attention, you can take this as a tantrum, you can take this however you want, because Lusternia's playerbase's opinion of me no longer matters to me. I'm taking twenty four hours to think on whether I want this to be my second home anymore. I've temporarily deleted my Discord account, and I'd appreciate it if people would just leave me alone in every way possible.
If you helped with Ascension, either on Ixion's team or mine, thank you for caring to continue our mission of keeping Kethuru at bay.
It's extremely disheartening that an issue we've decided to rectify because we feel it is what is best for Lusternia moving forward is creating such toxicity and hatred towards other players. Take it out on me all you want, I can handle it, but to turn on other players because they disagree is something those of you who did should feel ashamed of.
This decision was never about taking anything away from anyone. We're not discounting Glom/Celest/Halli's work here - they put the work in and it shows. Everyone on their side knew what to do. We're not buying into the complaints about Creeping Doom and how it 'won' them Ascension (Ixion holding it for 56 mins against that strategy shows otherwise). Everyone understands and acknowledges that both sides worked incredibly hard and were prepared for this.
What this is about is saying that 'hey, this lag that -everyone- complained about, that -everyone- agrees was a problem' had a major effect on this outcome. That isn't Glom/Celest/Halli's fault. That isn't Mag/Gaudi/Seren's fault. That's our fault.
Hindsight is 20/20 - maybe we should have delayed Ascension. Certain players were pushing for delaying Ascension further before it even began. Maybe that was the right choice, but regardless of if it was the right choice or not, it's not the choice that was made. We can only move forward from here.
I know what it means to win Ascension. I know what it takes to win Ascension. I know how it feels to have that victory attributed to lag and not to the efforts I and others around me put in. This isn't something that is foreign to me and yet, from what I observed, this lag was something else entirely. This lag being something else entirely seems to be a common perception among all the players - not just the 'losing' side, but the winning side as well. This lag having a real effect on the outcome is all but certain here. It doesn't really seem that anyone is or has argued against that point.
I understand that this course of action is different than anything that Lusternia has done in the past.
I fully understand that there are those of you on the winning side that would not have complained had Ixion won originally. I've seen those of you during the entire Ascension maintain this attitude throughout each victory or loss that you faced, even when you personally lost in the last few seconds. I hear and appreciate your willingness to roll with the punches and forge forward regardless of the outcome. I know that this decision may upset you and make you feel like your efforts weren't worthwhile. We do not mean to make you feel that way.
I also know that there are those of you who said you would not complain that absolutely would (and have) complained when your side lost. I've seen those of you who have gone off on your tirades and arguments when things didn't end up your way and blame the administration for 'allowing' it to happen. There are even those players who are saying we should have included the playerbase as a whole in this decision arguing to us that players can't be trusted to vote 'for the good of the game' in things that aren't going their way. To these players, I also know that this decision may upset you and make you feel like your efforts weren't worthwhile. We also do not mean to make you feel this way.
I also fully understand that this will open us up to further criticism down the line when players don't think we made the right call. We're already seeing that in regards to the War Seal event. If you want to know the reason why we didn't enforce it there, feel free to message me and I'll give it to you. I'm not interested in starting a debate on our decision there in this thread though. What I promise is that we will strive to make the best decision for Lusternia, as a whole, that we can. I won't promise it will always be the right decision because we can and do make mistakes. I will promise to try and learn from those mistakes as we move forward.
I know the decision made today has upset a lot of you. I really do feel that it is what's best for Lusternia moving forward, and I do hope that those of you who are upset will continue to stick around and trust that while you may not agree with all the decisions we make, that we are earnestly trying to do our best for -everyone- as a whole. We will continue to listen to your views and criticism and opinions.
Doing this, even if you are changing the events for 2021 and onward, soils it and the trust in the admin. Why not just reward the first place prize in all contests to first and second then? This decision sets a precedent for all future competition (be it Seal, Ascension, or otherwise) that getting close enough in second place means you should get rewarded top prize as well. This decision was arrived at with consulting only 2 people. That's not the game. That's not even the major leaders on both sides. If more than just Choros and Ixion were consulted, that would be fair. Of course Ixion is going to say yes. And Choros is put in the tough spot of either being the person who says 'no sorry, you can't share this with me' or 'sorry team, I know most of you played to stopped Ixion, but we now share the win'. It is a lose-lose question. All this shows is that if you want to be rewarded for being on a losing end, just complain enough until the admin cave and give you want you want.
It has been said that Ixion will get TA and a special event to go along with it. This is just more salt to the wound. It will be even worse if he is claimed as a TA of Time like it seems like it will be. Even if there are no domoth powers to Time, having him be the first and only TA of Time would be an insult. Could I be wrong? Absolutely, but any sort of special TA-ness is just wrong and makes Ixion seem like the actually winner over Choros.
Would saying no one wins this year be better, that the Time Seal destroys Parhelion and leaves Choros back in his mortal body, and there is no TA this year? Perhaps, who can say with all the tensions as high as they are.
I actually totally am fine with Ixion being raised, but I think any event should be using the current seal, or that a discharge from the seal Ixion did win happens.
On the other hand if this is setting that precedent that if something goes catastrophically wrong in the future, we do have the option of falling back on that same special aspect, then I have no problems. There should always be a backup plan and the history and culture of a game is constantly evolving.