Problem 1 - Yeah, this is something I've been considering - making it two different cure balances for each org. This might be something that's best determined during testing rather than now. (It won't be hard to switch a cure balance)
Problem 2 - This has been brought up several times - we'll test these out prior to releasing and get the numbers right. These are the unique skills for each spec so the timings do not have to line up (ie, it's fine if one tics faster than the others due to strength etc)
Problem 3 - Your proposed solution is actually stronger than how it already works (only by a bit). The max penalty is -3/-8 at level 4.
Problem 4 - Swiftwind's kind of already worked like this already and it hasn't been an issue. I don't foresee it being one now. We can certainly adjust/change if needed.
Problem 5 - Bit of misinformation going on here. The melder can only stop the channeled break by being in the meld room at the exact time the break finishes. They can't just waltz through and interrupt it. There have been concerns about it being easy to stop killing the elemental but I think that again is something that will bear out in testing. I think as it currently stands, the elementals are likely too strong and will need to be toned down but I don't want to mess with that until we start testing. I personally think the melder having to come in to the room to protect the elemental and then try to escape again is fine. The team that reacts correctly will win. We can also look at inheritance but I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here.
Problem 6 - this doesn't seem to really pertain to these melder changes. These mages stacking affs will not function as the other leveling affs such as timewarp and tempinsanity but instead function like burns. (as an aside, you're off on how these function as well)
The answer to your question is yes, the insta's will all do the same thing on fail.
@Orael Each of the melders has a Increase X based on Y, where X is an already existing synergy or leveled aff, and Y is the new mage one. Case in point - Increase tempinsanity based on burns, or timewarp based on cloudcoils etc. When we're making effects that raise someone else's leveled aff for them that have nothing to do with that class, it just seems odd.
Also please can we move away from baseline bal/eq maluses *or* buffs? The idea of activated or burst bal/eq effects are cool and interesting if balanced around (think quickening), but the nickel and dime balance effects, while effective in some cases, lack impact and end up being more powerful than they feel like they should be.
They're also difficult to meaningfully capitalize on in general, if you don't have kills that generate and use long off bals.
Some of these leveled affs (like timewarp) already stack / increase really well on their own (with existing synergies) and do not need further skewing imo. Unless we are looking at ramping down the base gain to compensate, but that does not seem like it is really intended to be part of this and would significantly expand the scope. Timewarp is super hard to balance the generation of, and we found during testing that even super minor tweaks have a large impact in practice.
Edit: To be clear, I am using Timewarp as my example because to me it is the most complicated of things to get right due to how many factors modify it. Others may be less complicated, but I feel that the same general theory applies to all of them. We have tried to set generation to certain rates and having some new skill upset that does not seem like a good idea.
Problem 1 - Yeah, this is something I've been considering - making it two different cure balances for each org. This might be something that's best determined during testing rather than now. (It won't be hard to switch a cure balance)
Problem 2 - This has been brought up several times - we'll test these out prior to releasing and get the numbers right. These are the unique skills for each spec so the timings do not have to line up (ie, it's fine if one tics faster than the others due to strength etc)
Problem 3 - Your proposed solution is actually stronger than how it already works (only by a bit). The max penalty is -3/-8 at level 4.
Problem 4 - Swiftwind's kind of already worked like this already and it hasn't been an issue. I don't foresee it being one now. We can certainly adjust/change if needed.
Problem 5 - Bit of misinformation going on here. The melder can only stop the channeled break by being in the meld room at the exact time the break finishes. They can't just waltz through and interrupt it. There have been concerns about it being easy to stop killing the elemental but I think that again is something that will bear out in testing. I think as it currently stands, the elementals are likely too strong and will need to be toned down but I don't want to mess with that until we start testing. I personally think the melder having to come in to the room to protect the elemental and then try to escape again is fine. The team that reacts correctly will win. We can also look at inheritance but I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here.
Problem 6 - this doesn't seem to really pertain to these melder changes. These mages stacking affs will not function as the other leveling affs such as timewarp and tempinsanity but instead function like burns. (as an aside, you're off on how these function as well)
The answer to your question is yes, the insta's will all do the same thing on fail.
I appreciate you reading my novel. There is not meant to be a sequel.
Problems: 1, 2, 5. Splendid.
3: I had an old copy of info I think, there was a -10/-10 at max and -5/-10 in the level before it... it seemed to ramp fast.
4: Yeah, I noted swiftwind exists now, but that is quite a swing in speed, I'd like to see that come down. 20% may not seem like a lot, but you lose almost a full diagnose worth of extra bal for the bigger attacks, and the -% penalty isn't uniform and hurts people with long balances more. Hexes and bards can scoff a bit more than warriors, for instance.
6: My understanding was based on a previous conversation with you. My complaint was curing an aff had a % chance to cure the levelled aff with no increase. This had changed as a result of a report that had been slightly misread. I noted under the new approach you could cure insanity without curing any mental affs, and with no bonus for curing only that. I am now being told this has been changed, and you cannot cure only temp insanity if you have affs. That is the kind of stack I was looking to avoid. I have been informed this is still the case, sipping lucidity can cure an aff plus some insanity, or fail to cure any aff and only hit insanity, in which case it cures the normal amount.
No it's not. He said let's see how this big round of melding changes go. It's too many changes to say what happens next.
Sure, this could also get abandoned like other aspects of the game, the example being Woodchems which were also dropped into the game without much apparent thought on how they would work in relation to their secondaries and tertiaries because that wasn't relevant to getting them out now.
How many years was it again before shamanisms weather was actually usable for woods? Wildewood at least had significant envoying because it apparently just didn't support much of anything.
(Shaman weather still doesn't work properly for Wood's, my two bugs that were attempted to be fixed in livestream and said would be fixed after... still not )
and now back to your regular scheduled Melder updates!
The weather code, even the relatively new weather code, is famously idiosyncratic and thorny. That, and my impression is that the Shaman code itself is similarly... unique.
Swiftwind is fine, has been for years. If it was ever a problem it would have been brought up yonks ago.
Being a problem doesn't inherently mean it would be fixed. I believe a case could be made, right now, that a 10/10 and -10/-10 thing is fairly potent. Is it limited to 1 person or can it significantly change the metric of the whole group? That is potentially 20% more speed once per 3 hits. That is noteworthy.
There have been many problem children skills that were left years. Heck, many of them still exist because "well they aren't that bad, so they must be okay".
(All of aeonics needs to die in a fire after getting multiple things that were directly removed by players, or things that make combat "unfun")
As far as I can tell, Swiftwind is the most convincing reason to take a new!Aeromancy meld over your other options in a given alliance. Please don't call to nerf it just because you "feel" like it's too strong.
If it's going to be lowered to anything below 10/10 and -10/-10, give us the option to completely replace Swiftwind instead. Not that I really think Orael's going to make that adjustment unless a far more compelling argument comes along...
EDIT: Or actually try to think of ways to counter Swiftwind malus in game rather than just randomly ask for a nerf. It's not hard to bypass, lol.
Oh man this thread got quiet for a while, anywho I've got a small concern after an old player mentioned it. Is it possible to keep LiquidForm? Don't remember if someone mentioned it before or we got excited with the ideas, but I would prefer for that to stay since it's very helpful in keeping Aquas alive. Maybe also look into it being castable outside of meld/node but some sort of malus?
Comments
Problem 2 - This has been brought up several times - we'll test these out prior to releasing and get the numbers right. These are the unique skills for each spec so the timings do not have to line up (ie, it's fine if one tics faster than the others due to strength etc)
Problem 3 - Your proposed solution is actually stronger than how it already works (only by a bit). The max penalty is -3/-8 at level 4.
Problem 4 - Swiftwind's kind of already worked like this already and it hasn't been an issue. I don't foresee it being one now. We can certainly adjust/change if needed.
Problem 5 - Bit of misinformation going on here. The melder can only stop the channeled break by being in the meld room at the exact time the break finishes. They can't just waltz through and interrupt it. There have been concerns about it being easy to stop killing the elemental but I think that again is something that will bear out in testing. I think as it currently stands, the elementals are likely too strong and will need to be toned down but I don't want to mess with that until we start testing. I personally think the melder having to come in to the room to protect the elemental and then try to escape again is fine. The team that reacts correctly will win. We can also look at inheritance but I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here.
Problem 6 - this doesn't seem to really pertain to these melder changes. These mages stacking affs will not function as the other leveling affs such as timewarp and tempinsanity but instead function like burns. (as an aside, you're off on how these function as well)
The answer to your question is yes, the insta's will all do the same thing on fail.
They're also difficult to meaningfully capitalize on in general, if you don't have kills that generate and use long off bals.
I appreciate you reading my novel. There is not meant to be a sequel.
Problems: 1, 2, 5. Splendid.
3: I had an old copy of info I think, there was a -10/-10 at max and -5/-10 in the level before it... it seemed to ramp fast.
4: Yeah, I noted swiftwind exists now, but that is quite a swing in speed, I'd like to see that come down. 20% may not seem like a lot, but you lose almost a full diagnose worth of extra bal for the bigger attacks, and the -% penalty isn't uniform and hurts people with long balances more. Hexes and bards can scoff a bit more than warriors, for instance.
6: My understanding was based on a previous conversation with you. My complaint was curing an aff had a % chance to cure the levelled aff with no increase. This had changed as a result of a report that had been slightly misread. I noted under the new approach you could cure insanity without curing any mental affs, and with no bonus for curing only that. I am now being told this has been changed, and you cannot cure only temp insanity if you have affs. That is the kind of stack I was looking to avoid. I have been informed this is still the case, sipping lucidity can cure an aff plus some insanity, or fail to cure any aff and only hit insanity, in which case it cures the normal amount.
Sounds like things are going fairly well then!
Carry on!
How many years was it again before shamanisms weather was actually usable for woods? Wildewood at least had significant envoying because it apparently just didn't support much of anything.
and now back to your regular scheduled Melder updates!
There have been many problem children skills that were left years. Heck, many of them still exist because "well they aren't that bad, so they must be okay".
(All of aeonics needs to die in a fire after getting multiple things that were directly removed by players, or things that make combat "unfun")