Make it an RP avenue to find a way to unconvert them or come up with some substitute or ask the quest to be changed so that you don't have to fully complete it.
P.S. Veil users wouldn't be spyable under this system right? Since this is about RP?
For melders it also means not being able to use your meld for things like the influencing benefit if you're trying to do that.
You have to be kidding with that. What exactly do you think that benefit actually is? Can you quantify it? I don't think it is anything like you seem to think it is.
*shrug* Might have been because I wasn't at max prestige but seemed to have an effect when I was influencing a lot.
You've also conveniently skipped over the latter mentions of teleport functionality as well as when you'd also want to be watching the area you're actually in. We could also go more specific and talk about the buffs from aqua and aero. Ultimately the point is just that there are reasons a melder may not want to dedicate their meld to watching a quest area 24/7.
Make it an RP avenue to find a way to unconvert them or come up with some substitute or ask the quest to be changed so that you don't have to fully complete it.
P.S. Veil users wouldn't be spyable under this system right? Since this is about RP?
I don't actually care about the Eaf quest specifically. I still believe the idea itself is sound and could be done in an interesting way - that's it. A lot of the objection to the discussion just seems like a bit of panic, when nothing has been declared in stone and there's not even been a clear description of how the quest to uncover this would work. Maybe it'd be even harder/more inconvenient to do than the bad quest itself- we have no way of knowing at this time, because no one's made any suggestions.
P.S. Spyable meaning what? What system? How are you imagining this working?
"Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
What quests do people possibly care about getting done that aren't the ones the communes are offended by? The only quests that aren't specifically related to why the communes hate it, are the ones that benefit one org and harm the others. That already narrows the search that someone in x org getting the benefit did it. We talk about doing investigations to get answers, but what evidence is even left behind to investigate from? This suggestion depends wholly on either an org mob prophecy ratting someone out, or a quest NPC ratting out the person that did their bidding ...
For melders it also means not being able to use your meld for things like the influencing benefit if you're trying to do that.
You have to be kidding with that. What exactly do you think that benefit actually is? Can you quantify it? I don't think it is anything like you seem to think it is.
*shrug* Might have been because I wasn't at max prestige but seemed to have an effect when I was influencing a lot.
You've also conveniently skipped over the latter mentions of teleport functionality as well as when you'd also want to be watching the area you're actually in. We could also go more specific and talk about the buffs from aqua and aero. Ultimately the point is just that there are reasons a melder may not want to dedicate their meld to watching a quest area 24/7.
Not skipping over them at all. not interested in shifting goal posts, but, more importantly, the game should be should be about making choices. There was a time whe. players stood guard.
I also, skipped over the bit about not always being around. Yeah, that's the give and take. What you seem to want is a way to punish people with as little cost as possible to yourself or your time, or did I misunderstand?
So, to the admin (@Estarra, @Orael). I think being stealthy should be rewarded. Without this thread even in mind and just today I was recounting, how years ago (before I joined Gaudiguch) I snuck into Serenwilde and did all their epic quests. That's a highlight for me. These are the parts of Lusternia that matter the parts I'll always remember.
Not skipping over them at all. not interested in shifting goal posts, but, more importantly, the game should be should be about making choices. There was a time whe. players stood guard.
I also, skipped over the bit about not always being around. Yeah, that's the give and take. What you seem to want is a way to punish people with as little cost as possible to yourself or your time, or did I misunderstand?
So, to the admin (@Estarra, @Orael). I think being stealthy should be rewarded. Without this thread even in mind and just today I was recounting, how years ago (before I joined Gaudiguch) I snuck into Serenwilde and did all their epic quests. That's a highlight for me. These are the parts of Lusternia that matter the parts I'll always remember.
Yes, and it was boring and pointlessly tedious.
What was suggested was a means of uncovering information via a quest. IE, something people would have to work at and put effort into.
I don't know why you think you wouldn't still be able to do this. If they found out, would they care? I don't think anyone in Hallifax would care if you did our epic.
"Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
Make it an RP avenue to find a way to unconvert them or come up with some substitute or ask the quest to be changed so that you don't have to fully complete it.
P.S. Veil users wouldn't be spyable under this system right? Since this is about RP?
This post isn't really coherent.
Like... what you want us to go around and question the denizens that would logically be witnesses "Oh hey, did you see someone wandering through here with a sack of fae corpses?"
Or are you suggesting something about unconverting Eaf's? Why is it relevant to not have to fully complete the quest?
If you actually build out a generic system then you can also provide work arounds to things, for example. Someone that maintains masquerade also might mess with results and appear as a mortal on the results. But like... 5 power for immunity to a system via an ability that's only available to two orgs in the game is a bit much.
What quests do people possibly care about getting done that aren't the ones the communes are offended by? The only quests that aren't specifically related to why the communes hate it, are the ones that benefit one org and harm the others. That already narrows the search that someone in x org getting the benefit did it. We talk about doing investigations to get answers, but what evidence is even left behind to investigate from? This suggestion depends wholly on either an org mob prophecy ratting someone out, or a quest NPC ratting out the person that did their bidding ...
What's wrong with either of those options?
"Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
Well, look at it from other angles, if an org mob happens to have all power big brother vision, why not call out that it is being done instead of, "Oh hey, you summoned me! Did you know that Steve guy made an eaf, ugh what a jerk!" then poof. Using the prophecies to tattle is just dull and way too late to actually do anything about it. As for why the quest NPCs ratting you out is silly, let's do another scenario. Someone shady offers you a job to do an illicit act that could get you and them in trouble. You do the task with no problems, and a week later, Joe Schmoe the detective starts asking questions. Do you honestly think shady man is going to own up to committing the act -and- sell the person out? Especially when you have no evidence and just barking questions.
For melders it also means not being able to use your meld for things like the influencing benefit if you're trying to do that.
You have to be kidding with that. What exactly do you think that benefit actually is? Can you quantify it? I don't think it is anything like you seem to think it is.
*shrug* Might have been because I wasn't at max prestige but seemed to have an effect when I was influencing a lot.
You've also conveniently skipped over the latter mentions of teleport functionality as well as when you'd also want to be watching the area you're actually in. We could also go more specific and talk about the buffs from aqua and aero. Ultimately the point is just that there are reasons a melder may not want to dedicate their meld to watching a quest area 24/7.
Not skipping over them at all. not interested in shifting goal posts, but, more importantly, the game should be should be about making choices. There was a time whe. players stood guard.
I also, skipped over the bit about not always being around. Yeah, that's the give and take. What you seem to want is a way to punish people with as little cost as possible to yourself or your time, or did I misunderstand?
So, to the admin (@Estarra, @Orael). I think being stealthy should be rewarded. Without this thread even in mind and just today I was recounting, how years ago (before I joined Gaudiguch) I snuck into Serenwilde and did all their epic quests. That's a highlight for me. These are the parts of Lusternia that matter the parts I'll always remember.
There really isn't shifting goal posts, demesnes only came up because of the demand that orgs use melds to watch over all the relevant areas and it was responded to.
As far as there being "a time when players stood guard." sure, there was a time when the game wasn't in decline, had fewer contentious quests, and standing guard was trivial. That's got little to do with the reality of the game today.
What I want to see is some parity, I would like for there to be a chance for people to be caught for doing a contentious quest.
You are the one deciding that it is at little cost, no one's actually mentioned how long or involved an "investigation" would actually take because you could build the whole thing to be long and simple or short and complex, or any other variation along those two lines. There's also the reality that if you go with org based ones this also means you'd very likely only be able to investigate one at a time, particularly if you go with the suggestion that orgs are locked to specific quests they can investigate. Which in turn stretches out the time investment further if someone's say... investigating the Eaf's and someone else wants to check on something else. (as opposed to the quest specific suggestion where those could both be done simultaneously)
The later was addressed previously, but again. If you actually build a system you can build more things into it to allow counterplay on either side.
Like... what you want us to go around and question the denizens that would logically be witnesses "Oh hey, did you see someone wandering through here with a sack of fae corpses?"
Or are you suggesting something about unconverting Eaf's? Why is it relevant to not have to fully complete the quest?
Fully making an eaf could be after the quest is completed. Quest being to learn how. Making the eaf the final step after.
If you actually build out a generic system then you can also provide work arounds to things, for example. Someone that maintains masquerade also might mess with results and appear as a mortal on the results. But like... 5 power for immunity to a system via an ability that's only available to two orgs in the game is a bit much.
No it isn't. If it is okay for you to have your RP is it more than fair for the people who choose a stealth class to actually be stealthy. There are lots of things that only a class or two get. Lusternia should be about choices. We don't have thieves here, quest stealers seems a fair enough trade-off.
Lusternia isn't a nice place. Things will happen outside your knowledge and control and that's okay.
Well, look at it from other angles, if an org mob happens to have all power big brother vision, why not call out that it is being done instead of, "Oh hey, you summoned me! Did you know that Steve guy made an eaf, ugh what a jerk!" then poof. Using the prophecies to tattle is just dull and way too late to actually do anything about it. As for why the quest NPCs ratting you out is silly, let's do another scenario. Someone shady offers you a job to do an illicit act that could get you and them in trouble. You do the task with no problems, and a week later, Joe Schmoe the detective starts asking questions. Do you honestly think shady man is going to own up to committing the act -and- sell the person out? Especially when you have no evidence and just barking questions.
Because org mob has special requirements to being summoned and doesn't want to just hang out watching questers all day(no one does). I mean, taking Glomdoring's epic, Night only comes via oozes, crowns, and baby-killing magic. One could assume that she's technically "watching us all" same way that technically the elder gods see everything we do - but unless we ask and jump through some sort of hoop, they don't have any obligation to rat out Steve the eaf maker every single time. They're busy spirits/deities, and mortal concerns are trivial.
But I would rather not have it tied to the prophesy quests specifically. I don't know about Seren's epic, but Glom's is a little more effort and time-dependent than seems necessary. Plus it could interfere with someone else wanting to do the epic. And some org's epics *cough* are tedious and no one wants to do them twice. (Not that every org necessarily has quests they care about, but the option should be equivalent).
As for NPC rats - eh. In the real world, detectives do gather evidence, and often do find the culprit, or signs of who it might be. And shady man may very well rat out Steve the eaf maker for the same reasons shady men do it in real life: Lesser sentences, to cast suspicion on someone else, bribery, etc.
"Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
Well, look at it from other angles, if an org mob happens to have all power big brother vision, why not call out that it is being done instead of, "Oh hey, you summoned me! Did you know that Steve guy made an eaf, ugh what a jerk!" then poof. Using the prophecies to tattle is just dull and way too late to actually do anything about it. As for why the quest NPCs ratting you out is silly, let's do another scenario. Someone shady offers you a job to do an illicit act that could get you and them in trouble. You do the task with no problems, and a week later, Joe Schmoe the detective starts asking questions. Do you honestly think shady man is going to own up to committing the act -and- sell the person out? Especially when you have no evidence and just barking questions.
I mean, from memory killing Rynak and Kravch is part of the opposing sides quest in Verasavir, like all "Important mobs" they get better later. So why can't I just rock up to one and be like "Hey, do you remember who killed you last?"
You're also skipping over something important...
We have telepaths, Moon truth powers, Light shenanigans, etc, etc. IC were not stuck with RL limitations on detective work.
No it isn't. If it is okay for you to have your RP is it more than fair for the people who choose a stealth class to actually be stealthy. There are lots of things that only a class or two get. Lusternia should be about choices. We don't have thieves here, quest stealers seems a fair enough trade-off.
Lusternia isn't a nice place. Things will happen outside your knowledge and control and that's okay.
By the same logic it is more than fair for the people who follow Mother Moon to invoke Her aspects about shining light to uncover that which is hidden in darkness to negate your stealth.
If a fae dies in the forest and nobody notices, does anybody care?
Maeve cares.
"Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
If a fae dies in the forest and nobody notices, does anybody care?
Maeve cares.
I mean, given Maeve is connected deeply to every single fae, it's reasonable to expect she'd notice a fae dying violently, so the question isn't relevant.
No it isn't. If it is okay for you to have your RP is it more than fair for the people who choose a stealth class to actually be stealthy. There are lots of things that only a class or two get. Lusternia should be about choices. We don't have thieves here, quest stealers seems a fair enough trade-off.
Lusternia isn't a nice place. Things will happen outside your knowledge and control and that's okay.
By the same logic it is more than fair for the people who follow Mother Moon to invoke Her aspects about shining light to uncover that which is hidden in darkness to negate your stealth.
Got it. Your RP over everyone else's and the game needs to change.
Why is it not ok to do the eaf quest, but perfectly ok to kill leprechauns for shamrocks during last month? Surely communes should look as disfavourably on fae slaying for profit?
No it isn't. If it is okay for you to have your RP is it more than fair for the people who choose a stealth class to actually be stealthy. There are lots of things that only a class or two get. Lusternia should be about choices. We don't have thieves here, quest stealers seems a fair enough trade-off.
Lusternia isn't a nice place. Things will happen outside your knowledge and control and that's okay.
By the same logic it is more than fair for the people who follow Mother Moon to invoke Her aspects about shining light to uncover that which is hidden in darkness to negate your stealth.
Got it. Your RP over everyone else's and the game needs to change.
LOOOOOOL
You realise the irony of this statement right? Like, this whole thing started because someone was whining that they wanted to do these contentious quests but they could be caught for it, so they were demanding the game needed to change to make it so it would be implausible for them to be caught.
Their RP was more important that everyone else's they were demanding the game should change to accommodate them ALONE rather than trying to work out a middle ground that works for both sides of the argument.
You are now demanding that a single ability that lasts 5 minutes should give someone complete immunity from being caught for doing quests that can take far longer than that to actually complete, because your think your RP is more important. I mean dang, you're suggesting two orgs should be privileged over the rest of us.
Why is it not ok to do the eaf quest, but perfectly ok to kill leprechauns for shamrocks during last month? Surely communes should look as disfavourably on fae slaying for profit?
I wouldn't think it's okay to kill leprechauns for the quest and see nothing wrong with an org reacting appropriately IC to something they find objectionable? Especially given there's another option available
That complaint of wanting to do contentious quests was because QUESTS RANKINGS exists as a tool, which frankly doesn't need to exist. Case in point -
Wrath of the Wounded Crust Rankings ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Ixion 1 2. Enyalida 0 3. Lycidas 0 4. Sondayga 0 5. Anita 0 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QUEST TAERIN_EARTH RANKINGS 11 for more.
Not only does it show completions, but who's even STARTED the thing and made progress, that's some bogus Minority Report levels of information that your character has no place knowing. I personally stand by it should be witnessed or found out through avenues we already have, and that quest rankings needs to disappear, as it is entirely OOC.
That complaint of wanting to do contentious quests was because QUESTS RANKINGS exists as a tool, which frankly doesn't need to exist. Case in point -
Wrath of the Wounded Crust Rankings ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Ixion 1 2. Enyalida 0 3. Lycidas 0 4. Sondayga 0 5. Anita 0 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QUEST TAERIN_EARTH RANKINGS 11 for more.
Not only does it show completions, but who's even STARTED the thing and made progress, that's some bogus Minority Report levels of information that your character has no place knowing. I personally stand by it should be witnessed or found out through avenues we already have, and that quest rankings needs to disappear, as it is entirely OOC.
But it exists and the demand is to change the game to significantly favour one side of the argument rather than figuring out something the strikes a balance between the interests of both side.
I am OK with that - i think you guys need ton think that you are in a high fantasy game where you are the hero. All those peasants that are written into the background, they watch you, they see you, they talk about you. That's why we all know your honours - you were off doing something heroic. If it works for honours, it can work for little quests.
My only horse in this race is that quest rankings doesn't need to exist. If they decide to put in a method to investigate, fine. Just ya know, don't expect it to ever be done like it already isn't.
Comments
Make it an RP avenue to find a way to unconvert them or come up with some substitute or ask the quest to be changed so that you don't have to fully complete it.
P.S. Veil users wouldn't be spyable under this system right? Since this is about RP?
You've also conveniently skipped over the latter mentions of teleport functionality as well as when you'd also want to be watching the area you're actually in. We could also go more specific and talk about the buffs from aqua and aero. Ultimately the point is just that there are reasons a melder may not want to dedicate their meld to watching a quest area 24/7.
P.S. Spyable meaning what? What system? How are you imagining this working?
Not skipping over them at all. not interested in shifting goal posts, but, more importantly, the game should be should be about making choices. There was a time whe. players stood guard.
I also, skipped over the bit about not always being around. Yeah, that's the give and take. What you seem to want is a way to punish people with as little cost as possible to yourself or your time, or did I misunderstand?
So, to the admin (@Estarra, @Orael). I think being stealthy should be rewarded. Without this thread even in mind and just today I was recounting, how years ago (before I joined Gaudiguch) I snuck into Serenwilde and did all their epic quests. That's a highlight for me. These are the parts of Lusternia that matter the parts I'll always remember.
What was suggested was a means of uncovering information via a quest. IE, something people would have to work at and put effort into.
I don't know why you think you wouldn't still be able to do this. If they found out, would they care? I don't think anyone in Hallifax would care if you did our epic.
Like... what you want us to go around and question the denizens that would logically be witnesses "Oh hey, did you see someone wandering through here with a sack of fae corpses?"
Or are you suggesting something about unconverting Eaf's? Why is it relevant to not have to fully complete the quest?
If you actually build out a generic system then you can also provide work arounds to things, for example. Someone that maintains masquerade also might mess with results and appear as a mortal on the results. But like... 5 power for immunity to a system via an ability that's only available to two orgs in the game is a bit much.
As far as there being "a time when players stood guard." sure, there was a time when the game wasn't in decline, had fewer contentious quests, and standing guard was trivial. That's got little to do with the reality of the game today.
What I want to see is some parity, I would like for there to be a chance for people to be caught for doing a contentious quest.
You are the one deciding that it is at little cost, no one's actually mentioned how long or involved an "investigation" would actually take because you could build the whole thing to be long and simple or short and complex, or any other variation along those two lines.
There's also the reality that if you go with org based ones this also means you'd very likely only be able to investigate one at a time, particularly if you go with the suggestion that orgs are locked to specific quests they can investigate. Which in turn stretches out the time investment further if someone's say... investigating the Eaf's and someone else wants to check on something else. (as opposed to the quest specific suggestion where those could both be done simultaneously)
The later was addressed previously, but again. If you actually build a system you can build more things into it to allow counterplay on either side.
Fully making an eaf could be after the quest is completed. Quest being to learn how. Making the eaf the final step after.
No it isn't. If it is okay for you to have your RP is it more than fair for the people who choose a stealth class to actually be stealthy. There are lots of things that only a class or two get. Lusternia should be about choices. We don't have thieves here, quest stealers seems a fair enough trade-off.
Lusternia isn't a nice place. Things will happen outside your knowledge and control and that's okay.
But I would rather not have it tied to the prophesy quests specifically. I don't know about Seren's epic, but Glom's is a little more effort and time-dependent than seems necessary. Plus it could interfere with someone else wanting to do the epic. And some org's epics *cough* are tedious and no one wants to do them twice. (Not that every org necessarily has quests they care about, but the option should be equivalent).
As for NPC rats - eh. In the real world, detectives do gather evidence, and often do find the culprit, or signs of who it might be. And shady man may very well rat out Steve the eaf maker for the same reasons shady men do it in real life: Lesser sentences, to cast suspicion on someone else, bribery, etc.
You're also skipping over something important...
We have telepaths, Moon truth powers, Light shenanigans, etc, etc. IC were not stuck with RL limitations on detective work.
Accountability is necessary.
You realise the irony of this statement right?
Like, this whole thing started because someone was whining that they wanted to do these contentious quests but they could be caught for it, so they were demanding the game needed to change to make it so it would be implausible for them to be caught.
Their RP was more important that everyone else's they were demanding the game should change to accommodate them ALONE rather than trying to work out a middle ground that works for both sides of the argument.
You are now demanding that a single ability that lasts 5 minutes should give someone complete immunity from being caught for doing quests that can take far longer than that to actually complete, because your think your RP is more important.
I mean dang, you're suggesting two orgs should be privileged over the rest of us.
Wrath of the Wounded Crust Rankings
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Ixion 1
2. Enyalida 0
3. Lycidas 0
4. Sondayga 0
5. Anita 0
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QUEST TAERIN_EARTH RANKINGS 11 for more.
Not only does it show completions, but who's even STARTED the thing and made progress, that's some bogus Minority Report levels of information that your character has no place knowing. I personally stand by it should be witnessed or found out through avenues we already have, and that quest rankings needs to disappear, as it is entirely OOC.
Be that hero
People remember soft ways!