Really though, ethereal is pretty garbage to have to play around? The Smobs are absurdly hard to drop, but it's ripe for hit and run raids forever.
My one big gripe vis-a-vis cities vs. forests (now that totems are done) is that for Serenwilde in particular there is not and never has been anything resembling a "win" in the story line for Serenwilde. Ever. Serenwilde always merely breaks even at best. This is super frustrating and eventually leads to burnout, imo.
Actually, I'd be interested to know if that's the case in other orgs. I'm not sure if it is, and it actually might be?
Hey, guys. If we're done with the intentional gaslighting and the unintentional (or not) derailment of the thread, can we get back on topic?
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
You can't really say that an org has the best synergy as opposed to other orgs and not be expected to mention the other orgs. Orael has a point as do you.
Mag has synergy. It's just not as deeply rooted as yours is, and the fact that it does have synergy doesn't make yours any less potent or viable.
I was pointing out to Saz he was incorrect about Mag not having synergy at all. His quote was
```Celest, correct me if I'm wrong, has no org-wide synergy focus that every single class can contribute to.
Neither does Magnagora.```
I agreed with his assessment on Celest not having any synergy. But its clearly wrong that Mag has no synergy. They have had a special report to update their classes and to give them synergy, possible this happend after Saz quit playing.
The second major point he's incorrect about is twist. It doesn't work as he described it. Again theres been a special report on it since Saz quit playing.
He's making numerous points that are incorrect and its necessary to point them out.
I think you’re not
just talking about synergy, but at the risk of putting words in your
mouth, ‘effective synergy’.
So re: Tempinsanity.
There are probably
some situations where command denial helps, like when you’re prone.
But tempinsanity is a good order of magnitude harder to stack.
Further, it pretty much requires you to focus on building it to the
exclusion of other actions.
In the closed thread
you pointed out this thread and mused hadn’t you done what I was
asking. Well, maybe in parts.
“It's
a command failure, offensive and defensive both. So, it's better than
TimeWarp in my opinion and does cause more ruckus for the target if
it was being targeted by anything non-Gaudiguch as well. While it's
pretty good, I don't find it that overwhelming to be honest. Very
much like Timewarps, Gaudiguch Guardians can instantly kill massively
TemporaryInsanity stacked targets and their bards drain more ego&mana
with higher insanity levels. Different vitals, yet a mirror match-up
to Hallifax. “
I would have rather
you test it and see its actual effect rather than just on paper, but
I get that it wasn’t really your focus and you’re not calling for
a change to it so why thoroughly test it.
Illuminati are
probably the worst off Guardians currently as concerns their primary.
As to the rest, my
personal bias is probably anyone with a viable mana kill has pretty
good synergy.
But onto what I
think the focus of your post is:
My issue with this
thread is you’re trying to do too much in a single thread. Pick a
problem and focus on that.
Look up ‘gish
gallop’ from wiki: The Gish
gallopis
a technique used during debatingthat
focuses on overwhelming an opponent with as many arguments as
possible, without regard for accuracy or strength of the arguments.
Not that your post
is to that extent, but it feels to me you’re trying to make your
case based on number of things over really fleshing out the argument.
1. Glomdoring has
the hands-down best mechanic.
2. Maybe Gaudiguch
is second best.
2a. Gaudiguch has
org wide synergy even though it practically does not (my opinion).
What the classes actually need are fairly in conflict.
Remedy I'm seeking? No, I don't really have any agenda or a true solution on my own. I just wanted everyone to acknowledge what's what, where do everyone stand, and then discuss the combat on that fundamental in the future.* As I've said in a previous post, when Shaddus was trying to troll a bit and then Veyils seriously proposed Bleeding and/or Harbingers getting a closer look is something I never asked for, but I believe it might be a good step forward. As are the options to elevate other orgs to Glomdoring's point of where almost every skill in a skillset hold hands with another skill from a different Glom skillset. Yeah, I admit, there're a lot to read and digest in my original post, but there could've been soooo so much more, had I not restrained myself. Maybe I didn't do a good enough job with it. But I did intentionally leave a full Nekotai and Nightsweats review completely outside.
*: Which is why, I find this thread has achieved its primary objective. And any talks regarding further changes should continue on with keeping at least some of the points those were made in mind, at least.
"Oh the year was 453CE, how I wish I was in Serenwilde now... aletter of marque come from the regent to the scummiest aethership I ever seen, gods damn them all...I was told we'd cruise the void for auronidion and dust, we'd fire no turrets, shed no tears.. now I'm a broken man on a Hallifax tier, the last of Saz's privateers."
I think you’re not
just talking about synergy, but at the risk of putting words in your
mouth, ‘effective synergy’.
So re: Tempinsanity.
There are probably
some situations where command denial helps, like when you’re prone.
But tempinsanity is a good order of magnitude harder to stack.
Further, it pretty much requires you to focus on building it to the
exclusion of other actions.
In the closed thread
you pointed out this thread and mused hadn’t you done what I was
asking. Well, maybe in parts.
“It's
a command failure, offensive and defensive both. So, it's better than
TimeWarp in my opinion and does cause more ruckus for the target if
it was being targeted by anything non-Gaudiguch as well. While it's
pretty good, I don't find it that overwhelming to be honest. Very
much like Timewarps, Gaudiguch Guardians can instantly kill massively
TemporaryInsanity stacked targets and their bards drain more ego&mana
with higher insanity levels. Different vitals, yet a mirror match-up
to Hallifax. “
I would have rather
you test it and see its actual effect rather than just on paper, but
I get that it wasn’t really your focus and you’re not calling for
a change to it so why thoroughly test it.
Illuminati are
probably the worst off Guardians currently as concerns their primary.
As to the rest, my
personal bias is probably anyone with a viable mana kill has pretty
good synergy.
But onto what I
think the focus of your post is:
My issue with this
thread is you’re trying to do too much in a single thread. Pick a
problem and focus on that.
Look up ‘gish
gallop’ from wiki: The Gish
gallopis
a technique used during debatingthat
focuses on overwhelming an opponent with as many arguments as
possible, without regard for accuracy or strength of the arguments.
Not that your post
is to that extent, but it feels to me you’re trying to make your
case based on number of things over really fleshing out the argument.
1. Glomdoring has
the hands-down best mechanic.
2. Maybe Gaudiguch
is second best.
2a. Gaudiguch has
org wide synergy even though it practically does not (my opinion).
What the classes actually need are fairly in conflict.
6. What the hell do
you want? What is the remedy you’re seeking?
If you go to a doctor with an illness and you have many symptoms, it's not really feasible for him to complain that you're talking about too many symptoms at once. You're there to treat the illness, the symptoms are just what problems the illness is giving you.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Illuminati are
probably the worst off Guardians currently as concerns their primary.
...what
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
It's almost as if, in the past, people have made separate threads addressing singular Glomdoring mechanics. Many of them, even. It's almost as if, in each of those threads, the same things happen. It's a wonder that Glomdoring has so many singular problematic features.
I don't think it's feasible to claim, in the same breath, that Glomdoring doesn't have mechanical balance problems and that there's value in performing a bleeding rework. Those are mutually exclusive and merely use the state of the overhaul as a scapegoat. Glomdoring has problems that extend far past the mechanical.
Except it's apparent that it's beyond redemption and that Glomdoring and friends actually just want everyone else to quit the game. There's really no other logical response for the actions taken in the past several years of threads, particularly in recent times now that more people are realising the state of affairs. I don't understand how anyone can claim that the results are merely the result of their cooperative power alone, were that the case they should have no qualms with having their skills changed, even radically.
Bleeding is too strong when modified and amplified* by the plethora of Glomdoring skills. Bleeding itself isn't problematic. Glomdoring has unparalleled synergy and too many individually powerful skills that are too powerful.
This thread is several pages of detracting, and several pages of people reinforcing the same points, despite the fact that it's general knowledge to anyone still playing the game.
How a lot of us feel like this discussion is going.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Bird memes are the big red button of the internet and shouldn't be used without caution.
I lol'd, curse you birb memes.
"Oh the year was 453CE, how I wish I was in Serenwilde now... aletter of marque come from the regent to the scummiest aethership I ever seen, gods damn them all...I was told we'd cruise the void for auronidion and dust, we'd fire no turrets, shed no tears.. now I'm a broken man on a Hallifax tier, the last of Saz's privateers."
Comments
My one big gripe vis-a-vis cities vs. forests (now that totems are done) is that for Serenwilde in particular there is not and never has been anything resembling a "win" in the story line for Serenwilde. Ever. Serenwilde always merely breaks even at best. This is super frustrating and eventually leads to burnout, imo.
Actually, I'd be interested to know if that's the case in other orgs. I'm not sure if it is, and it actually might be?
Then what's Gaudi's?
Note: Not trying to derail this into some Gaudi thread. Just my overall take on things.
@Saz
I think you’re not just talking about synergy, but at the risk of putting words in your mouth, ‘effective synergy’.
So re: Tempinsanity.
There are probably some situations where command denial helps, like when you’re prone. But tempinsanity is a good order of magnitude harder to stack. Further, it pretty much requires you to focus on building it to the exclusion of other actions.
In the closed thread you pointed out this thread and mused hadn’t you done what I was asking. Well, maybe in parts.
“It's a command failure, offensive and defensive both. So, it's better than TimeWarp in my opinion and does cause more ruckus for the target if it was being targeted by anything non-Gaudiguch as well. While it's pretty good, I don't find it that overwhelming to be honest. Very much like Timewarps, Gaudiguch Guardians can instantly kill massively TemporaryInsanity stacked targets and their bards drain more ego&mana with higher insanity levels. Different vitals, yet a mirror match-up to Hallifax. “
I would have rather you test it and see its actual effect rather than just on paper, but I get that it wasn’t really your focus and you’re not calling for a change to it so why thoroughly test it.
Illuminati are probably the worst off Guardians currently as concerns their primary.
As to the rest, my personal bias is probably anyone with a viable mana kill has pretty good synergy.
But onto what I think the focus of your post is:
My issue with this thread is you’re trying to do too much in a single thread. Pick a problem and focus on that.
Look up ‘gish gallop’ from wiki: The Gish gallop is a technique used during debating that focuses on overwhelming an opponent with as many arguments as possible, without regard for accuracy or strength of the arguments.
Not that your post is to that extent, but it feels to me you’re trying to make your case based on number of things over really fleshing out the argument.
1. Glomdoring has the hands-down best mechanic.
2. Maybe Gaudiguch is second best.
2a. Gaudiguch has org wide synergy even though it practically does not (my opinion). What the classes actually need are fairly in conflict.
2b. I’d probably consider manakills/drain synergy.
3. Poisons.
4. Twist
5. Noose. Really seems like a just heaping on.
6. What the hell do you want? What is the remedy you’re seeking?
*: Which is why, I find this thread has achieved its primary objective. And any talks regarding further changes should continue on with keeping at least some of the points those were made in mind, at least.
-Kilian
If you go to a doctor with an illness and you have many symptoms, it's not really feasible for him to complain that you're talking about too many symptoms at once. You're there to treat the illness, the symptoms are just what problems the illness is giving you.
I don't think it's feasible to claim, in the same breath, that Glomdoring doesn't have mechanical balance problems and that there's value in performing a bleeding rework. Those are mutually exclusive and merely use the state of the overhaul as a scapegoat. Glomdoring has problems that extend far past the mechanical.
Except it's apparent that it's beyond redemption and that Glomdoring and friends actually just want everyone else to quit the game. There's really no other logical response for the actions taken in the past several years of threads, particularly in recent times now that more people are realising the state of affairs. I don't understand how anyone can claim that the results are merely the result of their cooperative power alone, were that the case they should have no qualms with having their skills changed, even radically.
Bleeding is too strong when modified and amplified* by the plethora of Glomdoring skills. Bleeding itself isn't problematic.
Glomdoring has unparalleled synergy and too many individually powerful skills that are too powerful.
This thread is several pages of detracting, and several pages of people reinforcing the same points, despite the fact that it's general knowledge to anyone still playing the game.
I lol'd, curse you birb memes.
-Kilian