"Dubious gain" Do you mean because not many
people are playing Researcher right now? If they'd left it broken and
unusable, what do you imagine would happen? I really want to know Xenthos from your mouth before I answer the question for you.
I mean "dubious gain" in terms of people actively utilizing the
changes. I did not mean to imply that it was a complete waste of time
that should never have been done. It was in fact quite needed; for game health people need access to viable options to enjoy playing, and that was a big hole in Hallifax's arsenal.
I apologize for that, because looking back at it I don't even know why I wrote it that way. You're right to call it out.
What I was trying to get at was instead that just
investing a bunch of time in a class is not, in and of itself, a
miracle cure; we can spend a lot of time on these classes and not see much change, still ending up with people declaring that it's all the fault of skillsets that they do not have access to. I believe that it is better to just make the skillsets available and let people try / use the things that they are theorycrafting with. Balance skillsets around them being commonly available, so if you buff one org you're buffing another (or, with Aramel's interpretation, all orgs together). Nerf one, the other(s) are similarly impacted.
Cut org partisanship out of the skillset debate entirely and see what happens, vs. continuing on with more of the same.
PS: I'm not saying I want the Mage/Druid rework to stop, because it's in the same boat as Researchers; it's been hanging over things for so long that I don't know how anyone can enjoy the class edit: archetype right now. Completely in limbo. It needs to get done for the sake of... well, everyone.
"Dubious gain" Do you mean because not many people are playing Researcher right now? If they'd left it broken and unusable, what do you imagine would happen? I really want to know @Xenthos from your mouth before I answer the question for you.
Eadei is making Institute work and getting kills with it.
I didn't say he wasn't. Maybe I should've quoted what Xenthos said that prompted my question.
"Dubious gain" Do you mean because not many people are playing Researcher right now? If they'd left it broken and unusable, what do you imagine would happen? I really want to know Xenthos from your mouth before I answer the question for you.
Eadei is making Institute work and getting kills with it.
I didn't say he wasn't. Maybe I should've quoted what Xenthos said that prompted my question.
"Dubious gain" Do you mean because not many people are playing Researcher right now? If they'd left it broken and unusable, what do you imagine would happen? I really want to know @Xenthos from your mouth before I answer the question for you.
Eadei is making Institute work and getting kills with it.
I didn't say he wasn't. Maybe I should've quoted what @Xenthos said that prompted my question.
In that mindset, spending a lot of time revamping 2 to 5 org's skillsets is... a huge task for dubious gain (see: Researchers).
See my post right above yours. Also I am trimming the @ sign from me out of it so I can go to sleep and not wake up with a billion notifications.
Nope!
One of ussssssss
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
"Dubious gain" Do you mean because not many people are playing Researcher right now? If they'd left it broken and unusable, what do you imagine would happen? I really want to know @Xenthos from your mouth before I answer the question for you.
Let's be clear here there is a commune bias. It is just a fact of the game design that communes have it a bit easier.
How's that a fact, how exactly is Serenwilde is having it easier than anyone in this game? I've always ranked them as bottom tier, by both individual skillsets and their collective synergy. Infact, I don't think I would be exaggerating if I said the gap between Monks and Warriors as archetypes is parallel to the gap between Glomdoring and Serenwilde. The latter ones just want to be the former ones when they grow up.
"Oh the year was 453CE, how I wish I was in Serenwilde now... aletter of marque come from the regent to the scummiest aethership I ever seen, gods damn them all...I was told we'd cruise the void for auronidion and dust, we'd fire no turrets, shed no tears.. now I'm a broken man on a Hallifax tier, the last of Saz's privateers."
I think a lot of people including myself vented a fair bit of their frustrations, either that was necessary for us to do or that we went bit out of the hand, it doesn't really matter? Does it? I'd appreciate if we could focus more on the issues at hand and focus our attention to the main motivation for me to start this thread, which was to expose that there had been and there still are undeniable mechanical disparities between Glomdoring and all other organizations in the game, mostly by design, but I don't think the current adjustment of numbers help much either.
If people want to sit down and put out some ideas to rework bleeding so it's not as oppressive as it has been for a long while, that's great. And that's actually more than what I was hoping for while I was putting this first post together, to be honest. Or if there are other ideas, suggested new synergy points for orgs that lack, those are also going to help the progress, not necessarily limited to this thread though and that's still progress. (Which Devora already did, while I was putting in this comment.)
"Oh the year was 453CE, how I wish I was in Serenwilde now... aletter of marque come from the regent to the scummiest aethership I ever seen, gods damn them all...I was told we'd cruise the void for auronidion and dust, we'd fire no turrets, shed no tears.. now I'm a broken man on a Hallifax tier, the last of Saz's privateers."
Let's be clear here there is a commune bias. It is just a fact of the game design that communes have it a bit easier.
How's that a fact, how exactly is Serenwilde is having it easier than anyone in this game? I've always ranked them as bottom tier, by both individual skillsets and their collective synergy. Infact, I don't think I would be exaggerating if I said the gap between Monks and Warriors as archetypes is parallel to the gap between Glomdoring and Serenwilde. The latter ones just want to be the former ones when they grow up.
Lowmagic being quite a bit better than highmagic trades. One plane to defend over multiple, not having to deal with getting newbies to cosmic, etc.
Cosmic is a good point, though it's dubious how much newbies can really help in a fleshpot raid - though commune mobs also don't respawn like elemental mobs do. And I agree that lowmagic is better. That's why I think the best solution really would be org parity as much as possible, in skillsets, territory, etc, so everyone can stop arguing about what everyone else has.
(clan): Falmiis says, "Aramelise, verb, 1. adorn with many flowers."
Lowmagic being quite a bit better than highmagic trades. One plane to defend over multiple, not having to deal with getting newbies to cosmic, etc.
There's nothing to stop city-players from going Lowmagic though, like I'm playing a lowmagic Hallifax Bard, except if they are playing mage archetype. If that's a concern I think that shouldn't take much to address it in the upcoming Mage/Druid rework.
Pvp-zone design is a valid point, I'll also admit both Hallifax and Gaudiguch suffers the most from the weakest org smobs. But none of these put Serenwilde's classes in a higher spot in mechanical rankings, that was my point.
"Oh the year was 453CE, how I wish I was in Serenwilde now... aletter of marque come from the regent to the scummiest aethership I ever seen, gods damn them all...I was told we'd cruise the void for auronidion and dust, we'd fire no turrets, shed no tears.. now I'm a broken man on a Hallifax tier, the last of Saz's privateers."
There's nothing to stop city-players from going Lowmagic though, like I'm playing a lowmagic Hallifax Bard, except if they are playing mage archetype. If that's a concern I think that shouldn't take much to address it in the upcoming Mage/Druid rework.
(Or Guardian, or rituals warrior I'm pretty sure.)
Cosmic is a good point, though it's dubious how much newbies can really help in a fleshpot raid - though commune mobs also don't respawn like elemental mobs do. And I agree that lowmagic is better. That's why I think the best solution really would be org parity as much as possible, in skillsets, territory, etc, so everyone can stop arguing about what everyone else has.
Just a reminder both Gaudiguch and Hallifax have this annoying little mechanic where we have to harvest our smobs. The 'feeding' of those smobs is in fact a novice thing (the nexusworld power quest). If we don't do this feeding we don't have flesh/crystals and we can't call our easily killed entities.
So yeah easy access to cosmic is a bit more important then just for pvp
Bonded totems via a Druid can be runed to work as statues
Might have changed but the difference was/is that Druids can only bond a single totem where a mage could feasibly bond statues throughout an entire city. I'd expect we're at the point where Seren couldn't even reliably have totems active at the important npcs let alone trying to guard all their entrances.
Cosmic is a good point, though it's dubious how much newbies can really help in a fleshpot raid - though commune mobs also don't respawn like elemental mobs do. And I agree that lowmagic is better. That's why I think the best solution really would be org parity as much as possible, in skillsets, territory, etc, so everyone can stop arguing about what everyone else has.
Just a reminder both Gaudiguch and Hallifax have this annoying little mechanic where we have to harvest our smobs. The 'feeding' of those smobs is in fact a novice thing (the nexusworld power quest). If we don't do this feeding we don't have flesh/crystals and we can't call our easily killed entities.
So yeah easy access to cosmic is a bit more important then just for pvp
Not to mention our smobs are the weakest, so every Gaudiguchian and Hallifaxian PvPer is always going to have that shadow over their head of "if I do something out of line, or even participate, the angry mob might kill my smobs".
Serenwilde and Glomdoring will basically never have to worry about this.
Cosmic is a good point, though it's dubious how much newbies can really help in a fleshpot raid - though commune mobs also don't respawn like elemental mobs do. And I agree that lowmagic is better. That's why I think the best solution really would be org parity as much as possible, in skillsets, territory, etc, so everyone can stop arguing about what everyone else has.
Just a reminder both Gaudiguch and Hallifax have this annoying little mechanic where we have to harvest our smobs. The 'feeding' of those smobs is in fact a novice thing (the nexusworld power quest). If we don't do this feeding we don't have flesh/crystals and we can't call our easily killed entities.
So yeah easy access to cosmic is a bit more important then just for pvp
Not to mention our smobs are the weakest, so every Gaudiguchian and Hallifaxian PvPer is always going to have that shadow over their head of "if I do something out of line, or even participate, the angry mob might kill my smobs".
Serenwilde and Glomdoring will basically never have to worry about this.
I mean, how much do Celest or Mag need to worry about it? Cause if it's not much then it's not a commune benefit is Halli/Gaudi detriment.
Do we get to slip in that communes get the fun of moon phase based abilities and coven number reqs?
Smobs generally were designed for a much higher population - with game population currently it's basically only feasible to kill spheres or fleshpots.
Edit: we tried a DL raid around this time last year, or slightly before, with about 15-20 people, and it didn't go well. And nowadays I think it's going to be hard to find 15-20 combatants again.
(clan): Falmiis says, "Aramelise, verb, 1. adorn with many flowers."
To be honest, my last post was more to highlight the "detriment" part, but now looking at the larger argument, it doesn't really matter what power level the Supernals/DLs are. The Night Avatars haven't fallen in, what, 3+ years?
Smobs generally were designed for a much higher population - with game population currently it's basically only feasible to kill spheres or fleshpots.
Edit: we tried a DL raid around this time last year, or slightly before, with about 15-20 people, and it didn't go well. And nowadays I think it's going to be hard to find 15-20 combatants again.
We got the DL set with 15ish or so a bit back. So it's doable, but you need to know the mechanics or you're going to wipe fast. The same group also got the Moon Avatars at that time, actually. But yes, they were designed for a larger population in general, it's hard to get that many tanky people around at once.
Smobs generally were designed for a much higher population - with game population currently it's basically only feasible to kill spheres or fleshpots.
Edit: we tried a DL raid around this time last year, or slightly before, with about 15-20 people, and it didn't go well. And nowadays I think it's going to be hard to find 15-20 combatants again.
We got the DL set with 15ish or so a bit back. So it's doable, but you need to know the mechanics or you're going to wipe fast. The same group also got the Moon Avatars at that time, actually. But yes, they were designed for a larger population in general, it's hard to get that many tanky people around at once.
Back when there was a bug and illusoryself worked on smobs, yes. I'm not trying to have an argument about this; just making sure that people know why it was that Moon Avatars died basically (unintended mechs).
We got the DL set with 15ish or so a bit back. So it's doable, but you need to know the mechanics or you're going to wipe fast. The same group also got the Moon Avatars at that time, actually. But yes, they were designed for a larger population in general, it's hard to get that many tanky people around at once.
*with abuse of mechanics that were immediately patched out afterwards
Cosmic is a good point, though it's dubious how much newbies can really help in a fleshpot raid - though commune mobs also don't respawn like elemental mobs do. And I agree that lowmagic is better. That's why I think the best solution really would be org parity as much as possible, in skillsets, territory, etc, so everyone can stop arguing about what everyone else has.
Just a reminder both Gaudiguch and Hallifax have this annoying little mechanic where we have to harvest our smobs. The 'feeding' of those smobs is in fact a novice thing (the nexusworld power quest). If we don't do this feeding we don't have flesh/crystals and we can't call our easily killed entities.
So yeah easy access to cosmic is a bit more important then just for pvp
A semi valid point, though Hallifax people who do this actually have to be able to fly to do the quest.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
I'm sure some of it is the grass is greener. I used to have a list. There were some mostly trivial things like fire being four or five (I think separate areas), but most cities have two areas for their elemental plane making it a bit harder to chase/track people.
There are perhaps even more trivial things like elemental mages dems killing plants. A bit of a bias in lore towards nature that sort of thing.
Gaudi has a few odd things like wanting and sometimes requiring ablaze and water putting it out. I'm not sure there's anything like that for other melders/chems.
Comments
Nope!
One of ussssssss
-Kilian
Based on @Xenthos's earlier comment in this thread: https://forums.lusternia.com/discussion/comment/192404/#Comment_192404 and @Synl's point: https://forums.lusternia.com/discussion/comment/192309/#Comment_192309
If Glom's synergistic model is working super well, why not give everyone a chance to have just as effective mechanics?
If people want to sit down and put out some ideas to rework bleeding so it's not as oppressive as it has been for a long while, that's great. And that's actually more than what I was hoping for while I was putting this first post together, to be honest. Or if there are other ideas, suggested new synergy points for orgs that lack, those are also going to help the progress, not necessarily limited to this thread though and that's still progress. (Which Devora already did, while I was putting in this comment.)
-Kilian
Pvp-zone design is a valid point, I'll also admit both Hallifax and Gaudiguch suffers the most from the weakest org smobs. But none of these put Serenwilde's classes in a higher spot in mechanical rankings, that was my point.
-Kilian
So yeah easy access to cosmic is a bit more important then just for pvp
Do we get to slip in that communes get the fun of moon phase based abilities and coven number reqs?
Edit: we tried a DL raid around this time last year, or slightly before, with about 15-20 people, and it didn't go well. And nowadays I think it's going to be hard to find 15-20 combatants again.
There are perhaps even more trivial things like elemental mages dems killing plants. A bit of a bias in lore towards nature that sort of thing.
Gaudi has a few odd things like wanting and sometimes requiring ablaze and water putting it out. I'm not sure there's anything like that for other melders/chems.