I don't even know... it's just... some people were hit really hard by this and dumped a lot of stuff. I don't know how they get it back if you don't. But a 24 hour rollback is huge, too.
All the people that have put in for retirement currently, will they be stuck at the decreased value or the newer value? I don't know how the process for retirement works, I have heard you can back out before it is properly done, three days grace or something? But perhaps some people would like to chill in Lusternia for a few more months.
I don't think the extent of the damage done here is properly realised just yet. But hopefully we can salvage some of the people who left.
Okay awesome. I wasn't sure what exactly was locked in on retirement and what wasn't. So even those who still choose to walk away might maybe consider coming back later when they cool down.
Wanted to just say thanks for looking into it, correcting it and communicating it with us. Mistakes happen, and we're all human, and we appreciate transparency!
Wanted to just say thanks for looking into it, correcting it and communicating it with us. Mistakes happen, and we're all human, and we appreciate transparency!
No. Time for some venting.
[Lenghty, vitriolic paragraph deleted, and I'm feeling much better for having written it, thanks]
[Second, slightly less vitriolic paragraph also deleted]
Wanted to just say thanks for looking into it, correcting it and communicating it with us. Mistakes happen, and we're all human, and we appreciate transparency!
No. Time for some venting.
[Lenghty, vitriolic paragraph deleted, and I'm feeling much better for having written it, thanks]
[Second, slightly less vitriolic paragraph also deleted]
tl;dr for my original reply. Simple testing of the inputs and expected outputs would have identified the issue before it was implemented.
So I have a few thousand credits worth of dingbats, even if 1:1, instead of 2:1. Is the position being held that dingbats were meant to have no value, despite the fact they were proposed as having a value of two credits per? It feels misleading to have them offered with that, then claiming they are just disappearing value. This is the only thing really bugging me now.
the items that were dingbat items I would have to say is the most disappointing in all this. Arimisia lost half her value, I have like 2 goop items so that was not the issue at all, but a LOT of dingbat items considering I had 13k dingbats refunded to me. almost 5000 of those dingbats -DO- count to my retirement because you all offered me a 1:1 tradein on them. when I originally got the refund I would have much rather gotten the credit refund than the dingbat considering it was for a specific purpose but whatever, all those dingbats were purchased with credits, and the game defined a value for them. it is kinda crappy to say they have no value at this point.
The soft, hollow voice of Nocht, the Silent resounds within your mind as His words echo through the aether, "Congratulations, Arimisia. Your mastery of vermin cannot be disputed."
So I have a few thousand credits worth of dingbats, even if 1:1, instead of 2:1. Is the position being held that dingbats were meant to have no value, despite the fact they were proposed as having a value of two credits per? It feels misleading to have them offered with that, then claiming they are just disappearing value. This is the only thing really bugging me now.
AFAIK at least one game, if not more, seems to have been given value for their dingbat equivalents.
I know the admin have to be already dealing with many, many, headaches, but can any of you explain this to me? @Estarra@Orael
I know that communication is not always going to run smoothly between corporate and the producers, but one of the gnawing things about Lusternia is how often we're told something is corporate in a vague way and then when we have enough information to try to verify we see something different.
These games are huge, it would be surprising if when the corporate was asked to clarify that they always actually understood what was being asked.
I think this is just another miscommunication here. Might be worth asking them if they understood fully.
The value of Mayan crowns and dingbats are vastly different. There's really no equivalence. I'd place Mayan crowns to be more on par with wondergems than with dingbats (and maybe not even then, because Mayan crowns don't generate more of its own, unlike wondergems with the wondercorn item).
Lusternian currencies are so incredibly abundant that their value is quite diluted.
My understanding is that no retirement value should be generated through other items or in any way through in-game means (including, for example, anything generted by the wheel or curios or presents that could be liquidated). Since aethergoop can be generated outside of direct sales through a variety of means, they should not have counted towards retirement. Also, it's not like I did this unilaterally on my own. As soon as I understood how generated aethergoop artifacts were inflating retirement values, I immediately advised IRE to see what actions needed to be taken.
The value of Mayan crowns and dingbats are vastly different. There's really no equivalence. I'd place Mayan crowns to be more on par with wondergems than with dingbats (and maybe not even then, because Mayan crowns don't generate more of its own, unlike wondergems with the wondercorn item).
Lusternian currencies are so incredibly abundant that their value is quite diluted.
I mean, afaik, they're meant to be equivalents it's just that dingbats have always been higher in number so an individual dingbat is worth less than a crown.
Also, with the comments focusing on goop, it doesn't seem like it's really saying that dingbats shouldn't have been part of it.
So by deprecating dingbats, replacing them with goop, and having all these generators apparently we now don't get retire value that we would have without those changes.
If the logic holds true, the other games could also drop their retire values by adding the generators too.
Other games don't even have currency generators, I believe. Imperian's tokens and Achaea's crowns can only be obtained via monthly promotion (and thus, always have a redeemable $ value). This is what makes Lusternian currencies wholly unique.
In theory engaging with a promo would generate roughly the same amount of retirement value across the games. It doesn't really matter if 1 mayan crown is equivalent to 100 credits(pulling numbers out) which is then equal to 200 dingbats, the value added to retirement should be the same because the promos are pretty much always the same cost.
If dingbats would have been counted with the current understanding then the conversion from dingbats to goop, which wasn't meant to drop values (afaik), has resulted in a loss of retirement value for people. And now has resulted in Lusternia apparently being the only game without such a promotional currency.
With currency generators, though, the value of dingbats/wondergems/goop has become so fluid and so tiny that it's difficult to pin down.
Taking from your example, 1 crown (mc) is 100 credits (cr), and 100 credits is 200 dingbats (db). This is true at the start. But then those 200 db produce 200 more db after one month, so the conversion rate is now 1 mc = 100 cr = 400 db. Another month and it becomes 1 mc = 100 cr = 800 db.
It's a tragedy of overabundance, that can't be denied. But a decision had to be made, and not counting sub-currencies is, I think, the lesser of two evils.
My understanding is that no retirement value should be generated through other items or in any way through in-game means (including, for example, anything generted by the wheel or curios or presents that could be liquidated). Since aethergoop can be generated outside of direct sales through a variety of means, they should not have counted towards retirement. Also, it's not like I did this unilaterally on my own. As soon as I understood how generated aethergoop artifacts were inflating retirement values, I immediately advised IRE to see what actions needed to be taken.
Imperian gave retire value to non-credit artifacts when they went free to play.
Just to confirm, were there any items that actually generated dingbats?
Maps you initially got from a credit purchase promotion and they gave wheel spins or gold. I think later they changed to goop instead of gold? Genies I think were similar but with comms instead of gold. Poteen was a bunch of different buffs with the possibility of lessons or a coin. Traps just gave cookies from memory and later a coin.
Then these got goop rewards with the attempts at the gold/comm fix.
Arguably these could have lead to you getting dingbats through coins into wheel spins, but similarly you could get credits or lessons.
Goop is really the currency that comes to mind as generatable because of the decision to make it less promotional and more a ig reward currency, the logic doesn't really work with the state of dingbats before they were removed but maybe I'm forgetting something.
If it wasn't, then all the points about generated currency are pretty irrelevant because they don't apply to dingbats.
Just to confirm, were there any items that actually generated dingbats?
Maps you initially got from a credit purchase promotion and they gave wheel spins or gold. I think later they changed to goop instead of gold? Genies I think were similar but with comms instead of gold. Poteen was a bunch of different buffs with the possibility of lessons or a coin. Traps just gave cookies from memory and later a coin.
the merry solstice stocking that older people had a chance to give dingbats. This was fix to not give dingbats, but I don't know what it was changed to or if it was just taken out without any replacement.
Genies never gave cooms. Genies were goop, lips, coin, present, or a palette. (this was changed recently to goop or goop-craft items)
Dingbats were granted a value by admin, by design, with their acquisition methods being iron elite and the wheel. This could be taken as the administration messing up by making the dingbats available and then penalizing everyone else for saying dingbats shouldn't count because of that. Dingbats had a 2:1 credit value, they should not be somehow valueless now, when their main method of acquisition was either an elite membership or buying credits.
I have 10 bubblixes, that is 3K dingbats, which was worth about 6000 credits (I made them early on for domoths). Now we are being told these are worthless, all credits just went away.
I believe it is only fitting that all dingbat items be converted to credits and allowed to be rebought with goop after, this would deal with the matter. If you want to talk to me directly, you know how to find me!
(The above is not meant to be taken in a hostile fashion, just that it appears like accidental maliciousness due to a series of decisions we were not a part of, especially after being told the value of a dingbat is 2:1)
Which would then be 750 retirement credits (when it gets halved again). So all of that would explain why my retirement value only dropped a couple thousand, dingbats already squashed down a ton.
Note that I did test to verify with one of my blixes (which I know I bought with dingbats), traded it in and my value did not change. So there is not a "ghost" value being carried on these (as expected).
When created, it was the opposite. A torus was "worth" 3000 credits. So 3K dingbats is 6K credits, which is 3K in retire value.
The torus was retired when Admin asked the value of a dingbat and were told it was down to 1:1. If you check records, you will see Estarra asked on market for the value of a dingbat right before the retirement of some of the items... since a torus was not cheaper than a cubix.
Comments
If someone is changing their mind over something they did, they can email support and we'll look at it on a case-by-case basis.
I don't think the extent of the damage done here is properly realised just yet. But hopefully we can salvage some of the people who left.
[Lenghty, vitriolic paragraph deleted, and I'm feeling much better for having written it, thanks]
[Second, slightly less vitriolic paragraph also deleted]
I know that communication is not always going to run smoothly between corporate and the producers, but one of the gnawing things about Lusternia is how often we're told something is corporate in a vague way and then when we have enough information to try to verify we see something different.
These games are huge, it would be surprising if when the corporate was asked to clarify that they always actually understood what was being asked.
I think this is just another miscommunication here. Might be worth asking them if they understood fully.
https://forums.achaea.com/discussion/4366/character-retirement/p7
more specifically
Lusternian currencies are so incredibly abundant that their value is quite diluted.
I mean, afaik, they're meant to be equivalents it's just that dingbats have always been higher in number so an individual dingbat is worth less than a crown.
Also, with the comments focusing on goop, it doesn't seem like it's really saying that dingbats shouldn't have been part of it.
So by deprecating dingbats, replacing them with goop, and having all these generators apparently we now don't get retire value that we would have without those changes.
If the logic holds true, the other games could also drop their retire values by adding the generators too.
In theory engaging with a promo would generate roughly the same amount of retirement value across the games.
It doesn't really matter if 1 mayan crown is equivalent to 100 credits(pulling numbers out) which is then equal to 200 dingbats, the value added to retirement should be the same because the promos are pretty much always the same cost.
If dingbats would have been counted with the current understanding then the conversion from dingbats to goop, which wasn't meant to drop values (afaik), has resulted in a loss of retirement value for people. And now has resulted in Lusternia apparently being the only game without such a promotional currency.
Taking from your example, 1 crown (mc) is 100 credits (cr), and 100 credits is 200 dingbats (db). This is true at the start. But then those 200 db produce 200 more db after one month, so the conversion rate is now 1 mc = 100 cr = 400 db. Another month and it becomes 1 mc = 100 cr = 800 db.
It's a tragedy of overabundance, that can't be denied. But a decision had to be made, and not counting sub-currencies is, I think, the lesser of two evils.
Imperian gave retire value to non-credit artifacts when they went free to play.
Could be something Lusternia could do as well.
Maps you initially got from a credit purchase promotion and they gave wheel spins or gold. I think later they changed to goop instead of gold?
Genies I think were similar but with comms instead of gold.
Poteen was a bunch of different buffs with the possibility of lessons or a coin.
Traps just gave cookies from memory and later a coin.
Then these got goop rewards with the attempts at the gold/comm fix.
Arguably these could have lead to you getting dingbats through coins into wheel spins, but similarly you could get credits or lessons.
Goop is really the currency that comes to mind as generatable because of the decision to make it less promotional and more a ig reward currency, the logic doesn't really work with the state of dingbats before they were removed but maybe I'm forgetting something.
If it wasn't, then all the points about generated currency are pretty irrelevant because they don't apply to dingbats.
Genies gave comms once upon a time, but that was changed around the same time as the aethermines were.
Dingbats were granted a value by admin, by design, with their acquisition methods being iron elite and the wheel. This could be taken as the administration messing up by making the dingbats available and then penalizing everyone else for saying dingbats shouldn't count because of that. Dingbats had a 2:1 credit value, they should not be somehow valueless now, when their main method of acquisition was either an elite membership or buying credits.
I have 10 bubblixes, that is 3K dingbats, which was worth about 6000 credits (I made them early on for domoths). Now we are being told these are worthless, all credits just went away.
I believe it is only fitting that all dingbat items be converted to credits and allowed to be rebought with goop after, this would deal with the matter. If you want to talk to me directly, you know how to find me!
(The above is not meant to be taken in a hostile fashion, just that it appears like accidental maliciousness due to a series of decisions we were not a part of, especially after being told the value of a dingbat is 2:1)
The torus was retired when Admin asked the value of a dingbat and were told it was down to 1:1. If you check records, you will see Estarra asked on market for the value of a dingbat right before the retirement of some of the items... since a torus was not cheaper than a cubix.