I guess the only other reason is that I kinda feel it's like spawn-camping, but that's just me thinking of a fair fight, etc. I'm also concerned about blow-back--this is a place people tend to gather nowadays, and I'd hate for some third party running into a demense who's not involved. It was also cool to see Vito abuse it. ;-)
But I'd rather have an unpeaced Aetherplex than somebody changing the rules for how arts works.
ETA: I considered where you log in from as "spawning", not necessarily recovering from death.
People do not spawn at the aetherplex; they spawn at the Portal of Fate, which is peaced.
Also, if a third party who is not involved runs into a demesne, it will not affect them. The demesne holder would have to declare that individual specifically (at which point they are involved).
I'm all for this. Big open air markets are very dangerous places IRL, and I loved how the aetherplex was an analog to this. Besides, even when it wasn't peaced, you only got ganked there if you were trolling, or it was some random pk who was going to do you in anywhere anyways. And hey, maybe this will give people more reason to use city/commune shops.
I don't have a strong opinion about the aetherplex issue but if someone annoys you in a peaced room just debate them. Most people run from a surprise debate and then gank them when they leave.
And if they don't leave then you can win and humiliate them in front of the people in the room who are paying attention to you.
Maybe losing a debate needs a death like burn line.
I'd prefer to see people issue'd who abuse a safe room (either fleeing to it, or taunting from it), rather than destroying the saferoom. There are certain irritating room effects that would discourage people from traveling or shopping. As the network of manses, ships, and shops is a prominent feature in the game world, I don't feel like its use should be discouraged, as it is when the central hub becomes a battlefield. Please also remember that you don't have to kill someone to bully them, and just because you've declared yourself first doesn't mean that people are able to kill you to get rid of the problem.
It is hard to not read this request simply as a complaint that there exists a place where one cannot grief.
Liwase made a figurine of me, as well. I asked for it back, and she gave it to me. She even enchanted it first.
I have been annoyed by the peaceful aetherplex in the past as well, but on the whole I feel that it does more good than harm.
It's not like killing a person once is "griefing" them. If a person is being irritating enough that multiple parties want to garner status (for which there are also negative mechanical effects), then I would think it would be a bit of notice that a modification of such behaviour would be appropriate.
Further, there are other peaced rooms one can hang out in; Avechna and the Portal of Fate would allow someone to sit around in peace as desired. I do not see any request to remove the flag from these locations, so I feel like the claim that "people just want to be able to grief everywhere" is just a wee bit of an overstatement.
However, as Zvoltz stated, Lusternia is (supposed to be) a dangerous place. There are individuals who react violently to certain actions, and making a central location like this peaced removes that aspect from the equation.
(Also, what do you mean that just because you've declared yourself does not mean people can kill you to get rid of the problem? Defend exists entirely for that reason, and once declared you can then be murdered in turn by all defenders with no status garnered for anyone. Random declarations are a good way to get mobbed, and none of your buddies can help you because to do so they would also have to declare)
Alright, I've made an attempt to read the rest of the posts but;
1) When the Aetherplex was unpeaced it was a popular fighting place, and people liked that. 2) I don't remember anyone being a complete jerk (IE murdering everyone) about it aside from the occasional zealous Aquamancer that deluged the place and caused some newbies to start to drown. 3) Demense effects (aside from deluge if I remember correctly) only work if mages declare so that's a moot point. Annoying? Yes. A reason to keep the plex peaced? No. 4) It would discourage the likes of <insert name here/Krin/Liwase/Doman/etc/etc/etc> from sitting there. 5) It discourages people from sitting in the room and spamming stuff while they're starving/falling asleep.
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
I feel like with a total lack of evidence presented as to the claim that the aetherplex will become some sort of griefer farm and battle field, the argument to keep the room is entirely self defeating. People are proposing that a problem will possibly manifest that never existed prior to the room being peaced. It didn't exist before, why will it exist now? The obnoxious "abusers" of said peaced rooms will just move.
I can tell you, with absolute certainty, that unpeacing the aetherplex is going to have minimal impact to the vast majority of shopping trips. I am speaking as a combatant who learned how to fight when duels were actually very common (where as now they are non existant) and the aetherplex was not a safe zone hide away for the pariahs of the game. I even dueled in the plex fairly often against Celest and it was a great place to spectate, and randoms were very, very rarely dragged into the fight. There is not a single effect, demesne or otherwise, in game that will perpetually prevent PORTAL SEARCH and PORTAL ENTER DOODLEHOPPER. You can actually portal enter under a variety of afflictions that prevent other sorts of escape.
It's kind of like the voter fraud uproar during the last election. The peaced room isn't stopping mass shopper griefing because mass shopper griefing doesn't exist in the first place. On the flip side, I dislike listening to Krin hit on random furrikin hartstone with ample breasts while I'm finding the cheepest cube to recharge my scroll from. Or random Serens licking, romping, or snuggling me while I'm comparing prices of platters and kirigami. That's really the only time I have to deal with that kind of stupidity, and there's nothing you can do because 1) you can't stop them 2) they know there is nothing you can do to stop them. Some people deserved to be griefed, and they linger at the plex.
I'm as neutral as the Aetherplex Chamber in Camp David on this issue, but my version of the (devil's) argument goes like this, in a way I think Xenthos has a point:
The larger point here which is a good one is do what extent does the Aetherplex distract from the game world -- a place supposedly torn by war and conflict due to scarce resources and 'post-apocalyptic' conditions.. a bitter historical, theological and philosophical difference between the six cities and communes ( I get it I'm simplifying) .. allowing for OOC and polite fraternizing for people who should otherwise be dangerous enemies.
Then again, without the aetherplex we might be forced to create it.. especially if a f unctioning economy is to take place
The aetherplex creates a place where people can fraternize across national lines, which can take away from the setting of the game. Therefore, Xenthos and others making similar arguments have a point, in that removing the aetherplex as a place of OOC fraternization will improve the setting.
Ah well, none of aetherspace is peaced! So the war goes on, even there!
I was also a bit confused by your last statement that if we do this, the economy will somehow suffer (even more than it already does). Unpeacing the aetherplex would not destroy it, or stop the vast majority of people from using it totally peacefully!
The player base has its fair share of jerks, the only people I worry about are the little and newer ones who are genuinely trying to shop. Sure, we can say that no one wants to gank these people, but some people DO (I'm sure I'm not the only one who could think of a few names). I imagine it could be highly detrimental for new players, even if they're not attacked, to simply walk into the middle of this conflict when they just want to find some damned shoes.
As for the free interaction across enemy lines....well, do what I do - when you catch them, you RP and tell them very plainly why spending time with enemies is going to make people question their loyalty and suggest they don't do it. Orgs holding people more accountible for their actions might alleviate some of the lurking and taunting. I dunno. Don't really care other than to say if someone jumps me while I am comparing prices I am going to Frown most verily.
I'm all for decarebear'ing things as much as possible. It'd be like North of New Thera ("NoT") used to be on Achaea. Sort of a fun place but a potentially dangerous one too.
Ah well, none of aetherspace is peaced! So the war goes on, even there!
I was also a bit confused by your last statement that if we do this, the economy will somehow suffer (even more than it already does). Unpeacing the aetherplex would not destroy it, or stop the vast majority of people from using it totally peacefully!
It's kind of like the voter fraud uproar during the last election.
Yeah, it is kind of like that. One side is vociferously pointing to an isolated incident of low-grade but ultimately irrelevant nuissance in the hopes of sneaking past a more troubling agenda. Well equated. Oh right, no politics.
Anywho, sticking with the dissenting opinion to leave it alone.
I think an unpeaced aetherplex could have a significant impact on world games, including domoths and aetherflares. I think "general griefing" is also a valid concern.
Should it be allowed? Maybe. It is irksome that people are pretending that is not what this conversation is about though.
We have two pages about meting out justice against the ones of perpetrators of illicit snuggling and figurine carving. Seriously?
Tully called it right when he said "spawn camping." That's valid. The aetherplex is a neutral launch-point for all sorts of activities, for all sorts of players. All sides have benefited, as much as been frustrated by the current setup.
How would it have a significant impact on world games or aetherflares? If you kill anyone there, you cannot touch them again for 30 RL days. They get rezzed, they lose out on maybe 2 minutes of time, and you just stare impotently at them while they def up / go right on to what they were doing. Further, if you try to do it during a world-games, you're doing it right in front of their entire team... who can just defend them and murder you instead. For no status gain, even.
You also start losing karma the more people you have on your list, and once you get up to a certain amount you get auto-vengeance for killing any more.
I just don't understand why one would feel that's a concern, since the way Avenger is implemented, trying to do anything large-scale there is a bad idea. Doing so will just make life very difficult for yourself and your friends.
As such, the only thing that this really will enable is exactly what is being requested: the ability to deal with an individual when they do something you feel is worthy of getting +1 person on your bully list.
Anyways, staging grounds for things like flares or games shouldn't be a neutral ground, those are org-related events!. It should be allied ground, that's one of the benefits of having allies... more places people aren't trying and able to kill you! This is way more in line with the setting and stated policies of the game.
People doing really neutral things aren't going to incite enough ire to risk declaring, as Xenthos pointed out. (Does Tully's point being valid make this point suddenly invalid? If so, why?) This change doesn't effect them at all! Avenger puts a huge kibosh on that sort of random ganking activity.
As someone who has probably jumped and declared more people on Prime then most...
I would probably never do it at the Aetherplex. Why waste your one declare on someone while they are shopping? More useful things like preventing them from finishing a quest, or being able to defend your ally from them.
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
Yeah, that's another thing. The aetherplex is one of the most frequently walked to places and accessible through every manse or bubblix. Someone declares you there, call up your homies and they'll snowglobe right up.
Comments
Also, if a third party who is not involved runs into a demesne, it will not affect them. The demesne holder would have to declare that individual specifically (at which point they are involved).
It is hard to not read this request simply as a complaint that there exists a place where one cannot grief.
Liwase made a figurine of me, as well. I asked for it back, and she gave it to me. She even enchanted it first.
I have been annoyed by the peaceful aetherplex in the past as well, but on the whole I feel that it does more good than harm.
Vive l'apostrophe!
Further, there are other peaced rooms one can hang out in; Avechna and the Portal of Fate would allow someone to sit around in peace as desired. I do not see any request to remove the flag from these locations, so I feel like the claim that "people just want to be able to grief everywhere" is just a wee bit of an overstatement.
However, as Zvoltz stated, Lusternia is (supposed to be) a dangerous place. There are individuals who react violently to certain actions, and making a central location like this peaced removes that aspect from the equation.
(Also, what do you mean that just because you've declared yourself does not mean people can kill you to get rid of the problem? Defend exists entirely for that reason, and once declared you can then be murdered in turn by all defenders with no status garnered for anyone. Random declarations are a good way to get mobbed, and none of your buddies can help you because to do so they would also have to declare)
1) When the Aetherplex was unpeaced it was a popular fighting place, and people liked that.
2) I don't remember anyone being a complete jerk (IE murdering everyone) about it aside from the occasional zealous Aquamancer that deluged the place and caused some newbies to start to drown.
3) Demense effects (aside from deluge if I remember correctly) only work if mages declare so that's a moot point. Annoying? Yes. A reason to keep the plex peaced? No.
4) It would discourage the likes of <insert name here/Krin/Liwase/Doman/etc/etc/etc> from sitting there.
5) It discourages people from sitting in the room and spamming stuff while they're starving/falling asleep.
I feel like with a total lack of evidence presented as to the claim that the aetherplex will become some sort of griefer farm and battle field, the argument to keep the room is entirely self defeating. People are proposing that a problem will possibly manifest that never existed prior to the room being peaced. It didn't exist before, why will it exist now? The obnoxious "abusers" of said peaced rooms will just move.
I can tell you, with absolute certainty, that unpeacing the aetherplex is going to have minimal impact to the vast majority of shopping trips. I am speaking as a combatant who learned how to fight when duels were actually very common (where as now they are non existant) and the aetherplex was not a safe zone hide away for the pariahs of the game. I even dueled in the plex fairly often against Celest and it was a great place to spectate, and randoms were very, very rarely dragged into the fight. There is not a single effect, demesne or otherwise, in game that will perpetually prevent PORTAL SEARCH and PORTAL ENTER DOODLEHOPPER. You can actually portal enter under a variety of afflictions that prevent other sorts of escape.
It's kind of like the voter fraud uproar during the last election. The peaced room isn't stopping mass shopper griefing because mass shopper griefing doesn't exist in the first place. On the flip side, I dislike listening to Krin hit on random furrikin hartstone with ample breasts while I'm finding the cheepest cube to recharge my scroll from. Or random Serens licking, romping, or snuggling me while I'm comparing prices of platters and kirigami. That's really the only time I have to deal with that kind of stupidity, and there's nothing you can do because 1) you can't stop them 2) they know there is nothing you can do to stop them. Some people deserved to be griefed, and they linger at the plex.
The larger point here which is a good one is do what extent does the Aetherplex distract from the game world -- a place supposedly torn by war and conflict due to scarce resources and 'post-apocalyptic' conditions.. a bitter historical, theological and philosophical difference between the six cities and communes ( I get it I'm simplifying) .. allowing for OOC and polite fraternizing for people who should otherwise be dangerous enemies.
Then again, without the aetherplex we might be forced to create it.. especially if a f unctioning economy is to take place
As for the free interaction across enemy lines....well, do what I do - when you catch them, you RP and tell them very plainly why spending time with enemies is going to make people question their loyalty and suggest they don't do it. Orgs holding people more accountible for their actions might alleviate some of the lurking and taunting. I dunno. Don't really care other than to say if someone jumps me while I am comparing prices I am going to Frown most verily.
Anywho, sticking with the dissenting opinion to leave it alone.
Vive l'apostrophe!
Not much sneaking to be seen.
Should it be allowed? Maybe. It is irksome that people are pretending that is not what this conversation is about though.
We have two pages about meting out justice against the ones of perpetrators of illicit snuggling and figurine carving. Seriously?
Tully called it right when he said "spawn camping." That's valid. The aetherplex is a neutral launch-point for all sorts of activities, for all sorts of players. All sides have benefited, as much as been frustrated by the current setup.
Have a good evening!
Vive l'apostrophe!
You also start losing karma the more people you have on your list, and once you get up to a certain amount you get auto-vengeance for killing any more.
I just don't understand why one would feel that's a concern, since the way Avenger is implemented, trying to do anything large-scale there is a bad idea. Doing so will just make life very difficult for yourself and your friends.
As such, the only thing that this really will enable is exactly what is being requested: the ability to deal with an individual when they do something you feel is worthy of getting +1 person on your bully list.
So, yes, seriously!