Any plans for implementing the malus other IREs have for more than 3 people on a target?



  • As far as I can tell the "issue" is people getting killed by large groups easily?

    Well there is an existing counter to this already in that your group saves you with protection or movement skills or kills the enemy targets faster than you.

    It can be kind of hard to get your head around lusternia combat when you first start from other muds. Pretty much every other mud does not have such easy access movement skills that lusty has. You start a group fight in aetolia and get messed up you die usally, you do the same in Lusternia then your team gusts you out of the room to cure up. 

    Learning the movement skills of lusty should help you alleviate any issue your finding with groups murdering you

  • I'm a big fan of the accuracy malus system. But I don't think it'll be ever plausible for Lusternia because of the intense AoE passives in this game. The groups, -kind of- have to steamroll those casters. Melders/Bards/Whoever to gain advantage over their enemies and the no malus system lets them do that. As Veyils hinted, agility in combat is your biggest ally. 
     "Oh the year was 453CE, how I wish I was in Serenwilde now... aletter of marque come from the regent to the scummiest aethership I ever seen, gods damn them all...I was told we'd cruise the void for auronidion and dust, we'd fire no turrets, shed no tears.. now I'm a broken man on a Hallifax tier, the last of Saz's privateers."

  • Let's not forget that it was only really a thing in MKO because curing/defending was a vastly different system to what other IRE games have. So it kinda fit there, as a means to prevent someone just being instantly locked out of a fight.
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  • edited January 2017
    So the only movement skill I've seen is tumble or leap not seen tons other options so I need to look more. And if you have tons of stuns or action loss in the first 10-20 secs you are dead before you can use one of those skills. I have seen gusts used to move teammates out but for those of us with high rooting it doesn't work so much. If the whole reason for this approach is to deal with the fact that AoE is to effective or too powerful then need to look at AoE rather than saying OK just let everyone pile on to get the kill it quickly turns into "who brung the mostest" which happens lots of places not just here I just think it would add some strategy into it if you couldn't just go OK everyone target Avu or everyone target Saz, it would be OK which 3 or even 4 people, suffer a touch of a malus to add a body, make sense to target which person. Also some people seem to be missing out that I said the malus should not apply to AoE attacks. 
  • There's nothing inherently wrong with a fast killtime in large groups. It's a different style and requires different tactics and team coordination. It's also possible to respawn and rejoin a battle very quickly. Managing the quick pace and chaos of large scale battles is a skill in it's own right.
  • Again you can have all the tactics coordination you want but if a player has high rooting which they need to deal with forced movement the primary player targeted in group fits is essentially a dead man walking which is not tactics or strategy IMO, perhaps a tweak to movement skills that rooting is bypassed for allies to make it more feasible to move people out if they are the target? 
  • There's more you can do than just gusting. You can heal allies, you can sprinkle salt or weave reflections, you can hinder their attackers. There's also a goop artie that people can wear that will put their summon resist at 0.

    But, that's all beside the point. A lot of times an individual is just going to die. But if your team is more coordinated they will split the opponents and not be split themselves, have better hindering and/or damage and will kill faster. Don't get hung up on individual deaths. People die fast and respawn fast. Keeping your team together, getting the better initiation and optimizing your offense for speed and efficiency is key.
  • If anything, I feel like there are too many skills that allow people to escape situations they have no right escaping.
  • There is only really the combination of p5 impales and aeon that actually will stop a target running off on their own. 
  • I think Illus can do it well enough with balance steal, exit failure, and empress, but it's no sure thing.
    Take great care of yourselves and each other.
  • Barrier is the correct answer to people escaping. It forces other people to enter and gust sans rad (but I am of the opinion rad needs to be blocked by more things like monolith)
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  • Necro incoming, but it's still on the first page of the overhaul forum so I think I'm safe.

    Depending on how it's done I would be for adding this. Mostly because it's tiring that all sufficiently large group fights tend to devolve to a damage stack which gets boring after a while. In a damage stack fight anything that's not hindering, particularly hindering movement (p5th) or doing damage is a waste. So in most cases you're boiling a class down to like 3 abilities which usually excludes its unique instakills. To me being coordinated enough to split your focus optimally is actually a lot more demanding than being able to all be in the same room and target the same person.

    I think the most ideal number would be to have harsh diminishing returns after 3, so if 4 people are hitting you each has a 75% chance to hit, if 5 people are hitting you they have a 60% chance to hit, etc. That being said though I'm not sure how you deal with passives/ents in this case. Either you ignore them for these calculations in which case passives/ents become even more valuable than they already are now or you count them and suddenly being in a meld counts as one person attacking everybody so the diminishing returns start much earlier. This would mean that in a group context that who you target matters and unless you have an amazing leader it'll mean that you have to find the right target who's not already too diminished for yourself.

    The other side of this coin is that there are folks in the game who cannot easily be killed by three people. I think you'd have to solve that problem as well if you were to implement something like this.

  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    I agree, the damage and hindering meta does boil basically every class (particularly active-focused ones) down to one or possibly two button presses ad nauseum and that's lame. This shifts almost all of the strategy and tactics of the fight to meta-strategy relating to positioning and when your group engages, which not only rests on just a few shoulders in any given fight, it also cheapens and devalues the  potential for varied and complex strategies on the part of individual fighters. 

    Anything that forces targeting different targets with more nuanced combat is a plus. Bonus if it actually promotes splitting into various combat zones (which this would not). 
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