SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
But today that won't work, as everyone gets only one duel, Weiwae. So someone could say 'I wish to block Weiwae' but if your card was stronger than the challenger's, they would be blocked instead. Unless my understanding of the day's opening post is wrong.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
But today that won't work, as everyone gets only one duel, Weiwae. So someone could say 'I wish to block Weiwae' but if your card was stronger than the challenger's, they would be blocked instead. Unless my understanding of the day's opening post is wrong.
Well, I visibly blocked myself to show that, even though I have items, it wasn't me taking the pagoda. But then we lynched Siam, so I just had a relaxing night dusting off my trinkets. IN THEORY THOUGH it was kinda clever. Maybe.
I dunno, I think without a list of what roles are even out there, most of this game has just been trying to figure out what we are dealing with. Not played a mafia game like this before, so I am pretty lost - the insane thread length doesn't help. I can see how we could use card games to force blocks or make lynches easier, etc...but we have no idea who anyone is or who we're even up against, so it makes sense that we've only used them for identifying people.
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
But today that won't work, as everyone gets only one duel, Weiwae. So someone could say 'I wish to block Weiwae' but if your card was stronger than the challenger's, they would be blocked instead. Unless my understanding of the day's opening post is wrong.
The game is longer than just this one day.
This just in: @Weiwae shares information everyone already knows! Yes, I am aware this is just one rule for one day. But since you asked, I'll go into more detail on my thought process.
Here's the thing about mafia, this day notwithstanding. Your strategy relies on everyone town more or less regularly agreeing with each other, and part of the problem is we can't. We don't know who all the town is. But do you know who knows who the non-mafia members are? The mafia. That's it. We are an uninformed majority facing an informed minority, who will do their damnedest to influence how the majority thinks. In a perfect world, sure, we could all decide on someone to roleblock. But I don't think we will manage to get that majority easily.
Actually, that's why we have lynches. A slow build to a majority decision. That's also why we analyze lynches, to see how people try and persuade each other to lynch a particular party.
Now unlike a normal roleblock, your spellcard strategy requires also: 1) an active challenger willing to choose their own opponent. 2) an opponent willing to choose the wager the "majority" wants.
People might not do what you want them to do. That's always a variable. And people can justify not wanting to do what you want them to do, sometimes.
Further, you have: 1) Last Words that might activate something you don't realize is on the table. 2) Unseen duel-based abilities that could give the mafia more information than you want. 3) The possibility of the wrong player losing.
Do I understand where your idea comes from, Weiwae? Absolutely. But there are reasons I don't think this "majority rule roleblock" will work long-term, which I outline above, beyond today. If other people disagree with me, I'm willing to engage with this, but I really don't think we can rely on it as a solid rinse-and-repeat strategy to flush out scum.
That said, I think the roleblock power is exceptionally useful as a wager, and would be considering it myself if I were challenged in a duel. But I think the roleblock wager is going to come down to individual gut feelings. "Do I think this person challenging me has a dangerous ability?" we will ask ourselves. "Am I willing to risk my own ability being neutered?"
I do think it's important to pay attention to who has been roleblocked when. But I don't think it'll be as easy to collectively determine who those people are as you think.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
We've already seen that people will generally wager whatever they want. Don't want to count on the challenged picking what the challenger wants.
Also, I roleblocked Falmiis last night.
I'm telling you this for a few reasons. First, because I received no message at the start of the day regarding success or not. So I get the feeling Falmiis effectively did nothing, so to say. If he protected someone and that person was not targeted/ignited, then this makes sense.
My concern with him was the reason he was so convinced there is an arsonist might be because he is the arsonist - would be a great way to get some speculation going without saying much or putting himself out too far. So I wanted to see if he'd mention getting roleblocked at the start of the day. Which he hasn't.
So I'm thinking Falmiis is what he says he is.
More speculation: Tamashi's role sheet says he could only recruit up to two people. This makes me more inclined to believe that there are two recruiters - if they each can only recruit up to two, then that keeps the cult aspect from getting too out of hand and gives us some reasonably balanced numbers. So I hypothesize that the other recruiter is also the arsonist, and that they can either recruit/mark (but not both). If they have no regular elimination method like Tamashi had, then that would explain the lack of apparent night death on the whole and give the second faction something to distinguish itself from Tamashi's.
Still mulling over the possibilities of who might be the arsonist. I feel like at this point, we know very little about Melali, Krackenor, Ushaara, and Sylandra. Sylandra's offered virtually nothing about her identity, Krackenor and Ushaara have both spellcard dueled approximately once (and I have a devil of a time deducing just who they might be), and Melali has at one point insinuated that his power isn't too vital to town (when he offered himself for lynching back when I was doing the same).
It would be very interesting to get a coroner report on either Kalaneya or Siam. I hope the reason the first took so long was due to a delay in how the power works, and not some other reason.
But today that won't work, as everyone gets only one duel, Weiwae. So someone could say 'I wish to block Weiwae' but if your card was stronger than the challenger's, they would be blocked instead. Unless my understanding of the day's opening post is wrong.
The game is longer than just this one day.
This just in: @Weiwae shares information everyone already knows! Yes, I am aware this is just one rule for one day. But since you asked, I'll go into more detail on my thought process.
Here's the thing about mafia, this day notwithstanding. Your strategy relies on everyone town more or less regularly agreeing with each other, and part of the problem is we can't. We don't know who all the town is. But do you know who knows who the non-mafia members are? The mafia. That's it. We are an uninformed majority facing an informed minority, who will do their damnedest to influence how the majority thinks. In a perfect world, sure, we could all decide on someone to roleblock. But I don't think we will manage to get that majority easily.
Actually, that's why we have lynches. A slow build to a majority decision. That's also why we analyze lynches, to see how people try and persuade each other to lynch a particular party.
Now unlike a normal roleblock, your spellcard strategy requires also: 1) an active challenger willing to choose their own opponent. 2) an opponent willing to choose the wager the "majority" wants.
People might not do what you want them to do. That's always a variable. And people can justify not wanting to do what you want them to do, sometimes.
Further, you have: 1) Last Words that might activate something you don't realize is on the table. 2) Unseen duel-based abilities that could give the mafia more information than you want. 3) The possibility of the wrong player losing.
Do I understand where your idea comes from, Weiwae? Absolutely. But there are reasons I don't think this "majority rule roleblock" will work long-term, which I outline above, beyond today. If other people disagree with me, I'm willing to engage with this, but I really don't think we can rely on it as a solid rinse-and-repeat strategy to flush out scum.
That said, I think the roleblock power is exceptionally useful as a wager, and would be considering it myself if I were challenged in a duel. But I think the roleblock wager is going to come down to individual gut feelings. "Do I think this person challenging me has a dangerous ability?" we will ask ourselves. "Am I willing to risk my own ability being neutered?"
I do think it's important to pay attention to who has been roleblocked when. But I don't think it'll be as easy to collectively determine who those people are as you think.
I think you are over thinking things here. Its a tool we have. Its not our main route to victory.
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
For what little this is worth, I am not the arsonist and I'm willing to claim what I am if enough people feel like putting pressure on me. I am also not inherently against a duel if someone wants to have one with me.
Can we get a list of what everyone else has claimed, though? I'm dead serious when I say I'm having trouble keeping track.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Ssaliss challenges Yarith When
it's clear that Yarith is gonna fight Ssaliss, everyone clears out. Not
because they're worried about collateral... well okay. They are worried
about collateral because Yarith seems to not have much of an idea as to
how these matches work. Before Ssaliss can declare a card, Yarith pulls out a sparkler that he throws on the ground.The
firework bounces on the ground, sending small shards of burning
minerals flying everywhere. The display is joined by a few more cherry
bombs that Yarith throw to the ground, happily watching the sparkles of
bright light. There really isn't much of a fight to get out of Yarith
here, so Ssaliss just walks over and confiscates Yarith's cards.
Ssaliss has won the spellcard duel
Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
Weiwae and Breandryn both appear to be spellcard copiers/analyzers of some flavour. Breandryn can also distribute items at their discretion.
Falmiis is a protector type.
Tremula has an echo shield for enhancing spellcard power.
I'm a jack of all trades with single use skill shots.
Ssaliss gains some sort of benefit from spellcard dueling, and is vanilla without victories.
Yarith is a jailer.
Siam's power was tied to his pagoda. Supposedly. It sounds like Yarith can use the pagoda's power, though? So was Siam just vanilla without his pagoda? Hmm. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Lavinya is a "treasure hunter", and can confiscate items as they wish.
Synkarin's power hasn't been stated, but Eye'm the Strongest seems to be a tie-in with a role restriction of some form.
There is an Aya flying around somewhere who reports on night happenings.
Someone is a coroner.
Someone is a talkative roleblocker.
Someone is an executioner.
Someone can make a target more susceptible to lynching on the following day, and may or may not be the executioner as well (this makes some sense in my head).
That's about all I remember off of the top of my head.
It also bears mentioning that two people at least were given cold-related afflictions at night that ended up making us sick/taking our vote. That's probably ⑨ at work.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Night 0 I protected Siam. Night 1 Ssaliss and night 3 Weiwae. I forgot to send in an action on night 2. For nights 0 and 1 I basically went for people who seemed to be winning duels because I figured that if they weren't mafia and mafia didn't have further information they'd be prime targets to go for. I went for Weiwae night 3 because he was one of the few that has a power that seems to be town-aligned.
I'm telling you this for a few reasons. First, because I received no message at the start of the day regarding success or not. So I get the feeling Falmiis effectively did nothing, so to say. If he protected someone and that person was not targeted/ignited, then this makes sense.
My concern with him was the reason he was so convinced there is an arsonist might be because he is the arsonist - would be a great way to get some speculation going without saying much or putting himself out too far. So I wanted to see if he'd mention getting roleblocked at the start of the day. Which he hasn't.
So I'm thinking Falmiis is what he says he is.
@Vivet, my one problem with your reasoning is that, according to his own words, Falmiis didn't do nothing last night, he targeted Weiwae. Whether or not Falmiis' target was under attack last night should be irrelevant as you prevented him from even reaching said target. Further, Falmiis would likely have received a message informing him of such as it falls under Kira's umbrella of 'things that affect your actions/behavior'. I'm currently curious as to why Falmiis didn't mention this blocking.
Still mulling over the possibilities of who might be the arsonist. I feel like at this point, we know very little about Melali, Krackenor, Ushaara, and Sylandra. Sylandra's offered virtually nothing about her identity, Krackenor and Ushaara have both spellcard dueled approximately once (and I have a devil of a time deducing just who they might be), and Melali has at one point insinuated that his power isn't too vital to town (when he offered himself for lynching back when I was doing the same).
Of the four names you listed there, while I can't rule out conversions which might have made him some flavour of scum, and without revealing too much, I'll say that I am confident that Krackenor is not the arsonist. (Nor am I!)
Other than those names, do you have ideas for who Othero or Iosion are that they didn't make your list? I don't remember much being revealed about them, but you may have gotten more from spellcard duels.
As for what I'm willing to reveal about myself.
- I have been night-actioning, other than the one night I missed during my absence. - None of my powers are related to spellcards. - I've a power I can use while stumped.
But I don't believe Sylandra is the arsonist either, so if we're narrowing down suspect list from Vivet's list, I'd be looking to Melali/Othero/Iosion by my own process of elimination.
Personally, I think Othero is our Executioner. I forgot about Iosion though. Hmmmm.
@Krackenor He might have targetted Weiwae, but if Weiwae wasn't bound to be eliminated in any way he might have effectively done nothing. That's what I meant. Kind of like how I got no indication that my block did anything. Or is that logic faulty? Honestly, this differentiation in mod feedback is throwing me off a bit.
0
SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
I, too, am willing to consider Melali/Othero/Iosion as targets, if we trust @Ushaara as a source.
I'll say this: I have used my power this game and you have seen it.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
@Vivet While we're obviously in the same guessing-game boat, I don't think that's how it works. Just based on what we know, whether or not Weiwae was targeted for a kill shouldn't have any impact whatsoever on your power. Falmiis targetted Weiwae for alleged doctoring, you targeted Falmiis to block whatever action he might take. Having the success of your ability be reliant on a third AND fourth party (being Weiwae and potential murder) seems really strange and would significantly cut down on a blocker's effectiveness.
@Vivet While we're obviously in the same guessing-game boat, I don't think that's how it works. Just based on what we know, whether or not Weiwae was targeted for a kill shouldn't have any impact whatsoever on your power. Falmiis targetted Weiwae for alleged doctoring, you targeted Falmiis to block whatever action he might take. Having the success of your ability be reliant on a third AND fourth party (being Weiwae and potential murder) seems really strange and would significantly cut down on a blocker's effectiveness.
Well, either way I did try to roleblock him last night. And my roleblocking should have been rather distinctive, and definitely different from the variety we've seen otherwise.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
On that note - the pagoda was not used to protect anyone last night, and Falmiis was blocked, so unless there is a third protection power then I think the remaining mafia might not have a straightforward elimination method anymore. Either recruit/arson.
The revelation that Vivet roleblocked Falmiis is honestly enough for me to
FOS: Falmiis
for the exact reason that it doesn't matter whether or not he could get his heal off because she prevented him, in a way that should be thematically visible. This is the exact same problem I have with Yarith, because he said he knows he was visited the other night by two people and will say nothing other than that. So he's either lying, Kiradawea forgot to include it in her night messages (hey, we're all human), or Vivet's going to get her roleblock refunded. Of those three, one is much more likely than the other two.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Comments
I dunno, I think without a list of what roles are even out there, most of this game has just been trying to figure out what we are dealing with. Not played a mafia game like this before, so I am pretty lost - the insane thread length doesn't help. I can see how we could use card games to force blocks or make lynches easier, etc...but we have no idea who anyone is or who we're even up against, so it makes sense that we've only used them for identifying people.
Here's the thing about mafia, this day notwithstanding. Your strategy relies on everyone town more or less regularly agreeing with each other, and part of the problem is we can't. We don't know who all the town is. But do you know who knows who the non-mafia members are? The mafia. That's it. We are an uninformed majority facing an informed minority, who will do their damnedest to influence how the majority thinks. In a perfect world, sure, we could all decide on someone to roleblock. But I don't think we will manage to get that majority easily.
Actually, that's why we have lynches. A slow build to a majority decision. That's also why we analyze lynches, to see how people try and persuade each other to lynch a particular party.
Now unlike a normal roleblock, your spellcard strategy requires also:
1) an active challenger willing to choose their own opponent.
2) an opponent willing to choose the wager the "majority" wants.
People might not do what you want them to do. That's always a variable. And people can justify not wanting to do what you want them to do, sometimes.
Further, you have:
1) Last Words that might activate something you don't realize is on the table.
2) Unseen duel-based abilities that could give the mafia more information than you want.
3) The possibility of the wrong player losing.
Do I understand where your idea comes from, Weiwae? Absolutely. But there are reasons I don't think this "majority rule roleblock" will work long-term, which I outline above, beyond today. If other people disagree with me, I'm willing to engage with this, but I really don't think we can rely on it as a solid rinse-and-repeat strategy to flush out scum.
That said, I think the roleblock power is exceptionally useful as a wager, and would be considering it myself if I were challenged in a duel. But I think the roleblock wager is going to come down to individual gut feelings. "Do I think this person challenging me has a dangerous ability?" we will ask ourselves. "Am I willing to risk my own ability being neutered?"
I do think it's important to pay attention to who has been roleblocked when. But I don't think it'll be as easy to collectively determine who those people are as you think.
Also, I roleblocked Falmiis last night.
I'm telling you this for a few reasons. First, because I received no message at the start of the day regarding success or not. So I get the feeling Falmiis effectively did nothing, so to say. If he protected someone and that person was not targeted/ignited, then this makes sense.
My concern with him was the reason he was so convinced there is an arsonist might be because he is the arsonist - would be a great way to get some speculation going without saying much or putting himself out too far. So I wanted to see if he'd mention getting roleblocked at the start of the day. Which he hasn't.
So I'm thinking Falmiis is what he says he is.
More speculation: Tamashi's role sheet says he could only recruit up to two people. This makes me more inclined to believe that there are two recruiters - if they each can only recruit up to two, then that keeps the cult aspect from getting too out of hand and gives us some reasonably balanced numbers. So I hypothesize that the other recruiter is also the arsonist, and that they can either recruit/mark (but not both). If they have no regular elimination method like Tamashi had, then that would explain the lack of apparent night death on the whole and give the second faction something to distinguish itself from Tamashi's.
Still mulling over the possibilities of who might be the arsonist. I feel like at this point, we know very little about Melali, Krackenor, Ushaara, and Sylandra. Sylandra's offered virtually nothing about her identity, Krackenor and Ushaara have both spellcard dueled approximately once (and I have a devil of a time deducing just who they might be), and Melali has at one point insinuated that his power isn't too vital to town (when he offered himself for lynching back when I was doing the same).
It would be very interesting to get a coroner report on either Kalaneya or Siam. I hope the reason the first took so long was due to a delay in how the power works, and not some other reason.
Can we get a list of what everyone else has claimed, though? I'm dead serious when I say I'm having trouble keeping track.
Yarith: Lavinya, Tremula (2)
Falmiis: Synkarin, Luce, Krackenor (3)
Ssaliss challenges Yarith
When it's clear that Yarith is gonna fight Ssaliss, everyone clears out. Not because they're worried about collateral... well okay. They are worried about collateral because Yarith seems to not have much of an idea as to how these matches work. Before Ssaliss can declare a card, Yarith pulls out a sparkler that he throws on the ground. The firework bounces on the ground, sending small shards of burning minerals flying everywhere. The display is joined by a few more cherry bombs that Yarith throw to the ground, happily watching the sparkles of bright light. There really isn't much of a fight to get out of Yarith here, so Ssaliss just walks over and confiscates Yarith's cards.
Ssaliss has won the spellcard duel
Weiwae and Breandryn both appear to be spellcard copiers/analyzers of some flavour. Breandryn can also distribute items at their discretion.
Falmiis is a protector type.
Tremula has an echo shield for enhancing spellcard power.
I'm a jack of all trades with single use skill shots.
Ssaliss gains some sort of benefit from spellcard dueling, and is vanilla without victories.
Yarith is a jailer.
Siam's power was tied to his pagoda. Supposedly. It sounds like Yarith can use the pagoda's power, though? So was Siam just vanilla without his pagoda? Hmm. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Lavinya is a "treasure hunter", and can confiscate items as they wish.
Synkarin's power hasn't been stated, but Eye'm the Strongest seems to be a tie-in with a role restriction of some form.
There is an Aya flying around somewhere who reports on night happenings.
Someone is a coroner.
Someone is a talkative roleblocker.
Someone is an executioner.
Someone can make a target more susceptible to lynching on the following day, and may or may not be the executioner as well (this makes some sense in my head).
That's about all I remember off of the top of my head.
I suspect Aya is Sylandra, from writing style.
Other than those names, do you have ideas for who Othero or Iosion are that they didn't make your list? I don't remember much being revealed about them, but you may have gotten more from spellcard duels.
As for what I'm willing to reveal about myself.
- I have been night-actioning, other than the one night I missed during my absence.
- None of my powers are related to spellcards.
- I've a power I can use while stumped.
But I don't believe Sylandra is the arsonist either, so if we're narrowing down suspect list from Vivet's list, I'd be looking to Melali/Othero/Iosion by my own process of elimination.
@Krackenor He might have targetted Weiwae, but if Weiwae wasn't bound to be eliminated in any way he might have effectively done nothing. That's what I meant. Kind of like how I got no indication that my block did anything. Or is that logic faulty? Honestly, this differentiation in mod feedback is throwing me off a bit.
I'll say this: I have used my power this game and you have seen it.
FOS: Falmiis
for the exact reason that it doesn't matter whether or not he could get his heal off because she prevented him, in a way that should be thematically visible. This is the exact same problem I have with Yarith, because he said he knows he was visited the other night by two people and will say nothing other than that. So he's either lying, Kiradawea forgot to include it in her night messages (hey, we're all human), or Vivet's going to get her roleblock refunded. Of those three, one is much more likely than the other two.
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."