IANAL, but I'm pretty certain that submissions to the artbard contests 1) are not cases of you selling the [right to the] art to IRE, and 2) generally couldn't be sold in most cases anyway, since artbards are supposed to be directly related to Lusternia (which I'd assume makes it a derivative work of some sort), and I'd be surprised if both copyright law and our Terms of Service would, strictly speaking, allow selling of such without explicit permission from IRE. Again, though, not a lawyer, so I could well be wrong on one or both counts. In either case, the forums are not a medium in which concerns about that can really be addressed; I suggest contacting Matt (the IRE CEO) about this if you want a more official response from someone who actually knows something about the legal aspects of this stuff, his email address can be found on the About Us page of the Iron Realms site.
That said, what we allow or don't allow for retirement transfer is 100% entirely at our discretion; characters very specifically lack any sort of inherent value, monetarily or otherwise, and so there is no requirement that any of the credits applied to a character count for retirement, or be in any way recoverable or transferable, and indeed until recently retirement wasn't a thing that existed at all. There are many reasons we do allow transferring or recovery of credits via various methods (e.g. transferring credits between characters, credit markets, refunds for trading in artifacts, the new retirement system, &c), and that's not something that's ever going to go away, but this doesn't change the fact that this is at our discretion what restrictions fall on these mechanics. The purpose of the retirement system is to, very roughly, allow movement of credits from one character to another based on purchases made for the character. Artbards are not* purchases, and therefore the decision was made to exclude from retirement value. Again, if this is something you'd like to discuss with someone who can give a stronger response or who has the authority to make decisions regarding this, Matt is your guy.
* See paragraph 1 for potential caveats to this statement.
I think I'm just interested to know how the value is derived via a breakdown. It's probably, as you said, perfectly fine for IRE to include or exclude anything in the retirement value, I'm just itching to know how the system derives the value. Please?
(Edit: I know the helpfile explains it in general, I'm just the sort who prefers to see how the value is derived mechanically rather than on theory. >_>)
What might be better is a RETIRE CHARACTER BREAKDOWN command to show how the system got the number it came up with.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
What might be better is a RETIRE CHARACTER BREAKDOWN command to show how the system got the number it came up with.
I think the idea is that we aren't supposed to know. It'd just invite more trouble than it is worth.
I don't disagree that some people may complain and gripe, but it would quell more questions than it would cause, imo.
I can't deny that this is an amazing deal. To paraphrase Ieptix, IRE didn't have to do this, and we should be happy with what we get. That doesn't mean I can't be curious about how my "worth" is decided.
Consider what Ieptix or others have said about how org credits aren't taken into account when retire worth is decided. Let's imagine that IRE has a way to track org credits for the whole time it's been around. What they likely don't do is track what you -do- with those credits. If you're worth 1k and you get some org credits, it doesn't contribute to your worth, and seems as though they are subtracted from your worth when it's being figured.
But what if your org credits aren't put into your character? What if they're sold, or given to a newbie, or used to buy golden lips or ikons or curio pieces? Disposable things which aren't as easily tracked? Ostensibly, the game system expects to still reduce your total value by this amount, even if it didn't contribute to your skills or artifacts. This makes me curious as to why the system needs me to add 3300ish credits to shaddus before I can retire him. The base retire amount is 500, so let's take 1k off the top, leaving Shaddus currently worth -2300 credits. How is that even possible?
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Yeah, you lost about 1000 when you logged in as Xenthos again for the first time after being descended.
The system also doesn't seem to be taking builder/guide credits, org credits, artbard credits, etc. into account, so the admin are probably trying to figure out how to determine what did and didn't count.
Oddly, I'm p. sure it DOES count winning in-game stuff like the end-of-year and anniversary contests. Which is weird.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Yeah, you lost about 1000 when you logged in as Xenthos again for the first time after being descended.
The system also doesn't seem to be taking builder/guide credits, org credits, artbard credits, etc. into account, so the admin are probably trying to figure out how to determine what did and didn't count.
Oddly, I'm p. sure it DOES count winning in-game stuff like the end-of-year and anniversary contests. Which is weird.
I don't think it does. I'm pretty sure my medallion does not count.
Luce's got a 644 retire value, and the only place it could've come from really is artifact presents worth about 600 cr, the two lesson packages, two solstice crates, and placing in his Greathunt bracket.
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
I feel like this is a weird exercise in 'how invested were you in your character.'
This is what I got:
"If you retire this character, you will receive 919 transfer credits for use on a new character."
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Selling a car is not a good analogy as you never owned the car. You just rented the car and put fuel in it. IRE are now allowing you to get a credit for the fuel you put in when you get a new car.
So Xenthos is a rental!
06/30/2014 19:37 Silvanus channels the power of the Megalith of Doom for you, stripping you of your Vernal Ascendant status.......bastard!!
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
edited January 2016
Car dealerships and individual sellers can use whatever valuation they want, KBB, NADA, black book, their imagination, whatever. That's just the negotiation between buyer and seller, the source of that value isn't really regulated.
When your used car loan is being underwriten by a third party financial institution on the east coast, the value of that vehicle is assessed via NADA which dictates or limits some of the terms of the contract. That part is regulated, and as the consumer you don't ever see it. It's not universal, but most banks use NADA in the east and KBB in the west.
Source: I underwrite auto loans
#themoreyouknow
I took a character I had given retirement credits to. I checked their value, gave them some retirement credits, and then checked it again. 50 retirement credits upped the character's value by 23 credits.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
That's true, but shouldn't my value have gone up by 25 and not 23?
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Slight necro. This is on a character who has purchased no credits yet, and has used some of credits from gaining levels to buy curios.
This character is not eligible for retirement. You would need to increase its worth by 1013 credits.
So apparently, using the credits gained from levels to buy curios depletes your character's "worth". To retire this character, I would have to replace 13 credits (which is odd, because I know I spent way more than 25 credits on curios), and then buy another thousand on this character just to retire them.
The reason I say this is that I'm confused about Shaddus' retire value. To retire him, he would literally have to have 3500ish credits added to him. There is absolutely no way Shaddus has gained so many credits from levelling and promotions from year to year, which would counter credits I've purchased on him plus another 7k credits. Even if I threw in bardics I've won, which aren't excessive by any means, there is absolutely no way that Shaddus has been given so many credits that should be held against him. The only possible way this absolutely appalling negative value is if winning items from the Wheel are added to your "value" as things the game has given you, and held against your value if you trade them in.
(TL;DR - if you win something on the Wheel and then trade it in, the game holds it against your retire value as a negative. Winning an artifact worth 300, trading it in for 200 and then buying curios lowers your retire value by either 100 or 200 credits)
Does this make sense? I realize this is only a suspicion, but if this is how it works, it's pretty crummy.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Credits you get for free from the game count against your retirement value, which is why you can have a "negative" credit value. I have no idea why this is the case but retirement is decided at the IRE level. I don't have any personal insight into the system, this is just something I was told by a coder.
Seems like it would make more sense if they just didn't count either way at all, instead of being a negative counted against other investments (re: actual purchases). But! As you say, that's not your call.
And the legends say that long after most mortals have died out and the Divine have fled into the Void with their Chosen to seek refuge in a new land from the Soulless terrors that plague Lusternia, only those inherently tied to the land will remain. Locked forever in a battle of terror and pain against the Soulless who now rule over them, the prophesy foretells that it may one day be the oldest among them who turn the tides and reactivate Roark's beacon to renew the fight against the Soulless and bring hope back to the First World.
Comments
I don't disagree that some people may complain and gripe, but it would quell more questions than it would cause, imo.
I can't deny that this is an amazing deal. To paraphrase Ieptix, IRE didn't have to do this, and we should be happy with what we get. That doesn't mean I can't be curious about how my "worth" is decided.
Consider what Ieptix or others have said about how org credits aren't taken into account when retire worth is decided. Let's imagine that IRE has a way to track org credits for the whole time it's been around. What they likely don't do is track what you -do- with those credits. If you're worth 1k and you get some org credits, it doesn't contribute to your worth, and seems as though they are subtracted from your worth when it's being figured.
But what if your org credits aren't put into your character? What if they're sold, or given to a newbie, or used to buy golden lips or ikons or curio pieces? Disposable things which aren't as easily tracked? Ostensibly, the game system expects to still reduce your total value by this amount, even if it didn't contribute to your skills or artifacts. This makes me curious as to why the system needs me to add 3300ish credits to shaddus before I can retire him. The base retire amount is 500, so let's take 1k off the top, leaving Shaddus currently worth -2300 credits. How is that even possible?
The system also doesn't seem to be taking builder/guide credits, org credits, artbard credits, etc. into account, so the admin are probably trying to figure out how to determine what did and didn't count.
Oddly, I'm p. sure it DOES count winning in-game stuff like the end-of-year and anniversary contests. Which is weird.
06/30/2014 19:37 Silvanus channels the power of the Megalith of Doom for you, stripping you of your Vernal Ascendant status.......bastard!!
I took a character I had given retirement credits to. I checked their value, gave them some retirement credits, and then checked it again. 50 retirement credits upped the character's value by 23 credits.
This character is not eligible for retirement. You would need to increase its worth by 1013 credits.
So apparently, using the credits gained from levels to buy curios depletes your character's "worth". To retire this character, I would have to replace 13 credits (which is odd, because I know I spent way more than 25 credits on curios), and then buy another thousand on this character just to retire them.
The reason I say this is that I'm confused about Shaddus' retire value. To retire him, he would literally have to have 3500ish credits added to him. There is absolutely no way Shaddus has gained so many credits from levelling and promotions from year to year, which would counter credits I've purchased on him plus another 7k credits. Even if I threw in bardics I've won, which aren't excessive by any means, there is absolutely no way that Shaddus has been given so many credits that should be held against him. The only possible way this absolutely appalling negative value is if winning items from the Wheel are added to your "value" as things the game has given you, and held against your value if you trade them in.
(TL;DR - if you win something on the Wheel and then trade it in, the game holds it against your retire value as a negative. Winning an artifact worth 300, trading it in for 200 and then buying curios lowers your retire value by either 100 or 200 credits)
Does this make sense? I realize this is only a suspicion, but if this is how it works, it's pretty crummy.
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."