Yeah, that was me blocking Synkarin last night. Synkarin's been giving off strong scum vibes to me since last Day 1, with his attacks on anyone who tries to build momentium for a discussion. And now we have his claim of being an investigator, and I think I know exactly what's going on here.
Synkarin is a classic consigliere. After all, the mafia already know alignments by process of deduction. So, what information would be useful for the mafia that an investigator could provide, considering they're probably looking to target certain people (King Henry, Mary, Francis)? Role names.
Celina still hasn't posted. I'll wait to vote until we hear from her. If she hasn't posted by the time I get home from work, I'm going to assume she's jailed or dead.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
I will confirm Synkarin's investigation, I am Cetherine De Medici.
What I am suspicious of is how he actually got my name, and I believe he needs to be lynched. Let me explain:
1) There was no nightkill the first night and Synkarin was blocked. We know that much now. He also stated he was not able to uncover Vivet's identity.
2) There was a nightkill last night, but two screams. I can confirm that the second scream was my attacker who failed to kill me, but that was not due to them being blocked.
I believe Synkarin did not uncover and Vivet's identity because the attempt was blocked altogether. The attempt was not blocked on myself, rather prevented by myself personally, so my name was still recovered but not my death.
That's my theory anyways.
Vote: Synkarin
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
I will also bring into his question of putting a Catholic on the throne. We know Mary is now dead, and was never in line for the throne. The line of succession is Henry, then Francis, then my youngest Charles who is ten and would make me the Queen Regent.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
YOU FOOLS DONE TRIED TO ASSASSINATE THE WRONG BITCH.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Oh I should clarify, I am Catholic. The quickest way to put a Catholic on the throne would be through my children, not Mary.
Synkarin is a classic consigliere. After all, the mafia already know alignments by process of deduction. So, what information would be useful for the mafia that an investigator could provide, considering they're probably looking to target certain people (King Henry, Mary, Francis)? Role names.
This is more or less how I'm feeling at the moment, which is why my vote didn't drop. I'd need other townies to make a good argument otherwise to make me switch.
I also really want to hear from @Othero before the day is out.
I investigated you night one. I was not blocked, I was not anything other than taking a look at you. I found out all that information on you the first night.
Last night (night two), I tried to take a look at Vivet, but was blocked by Tekora (he already confirmed this). This isn't that confusing and it's rather straight forward.
Chirbo was protestant and pro-France, I'm Catholic English and Pro-Mary. I backed off Tekora as soon as I found out who he was (before anyone else did, and before Ushaara acted).
Oh, to further prove that I acted night one to discover Celina's identity - Tekora himself was blocked by someone else and Lavinya was jailed. So unless there is a 4th roleblocker type, I was certainly not blocked night one.
Going to use italics for my comment just in case quoting goes wonky on me.
Interesting night, but since I am still pretty much seething and frothing at the mouth, doing all but shouting LYNCH KIRADAWEA at the screen, let me get this out of the way.
The only thing certain is what we say, when we say it. Sure, there's no guarantee that what we're saying is true, but there's a reason we've got the "no editting" rule.
Which leads me into why I think the first days tend to be silent. Because perversely, a game that relies on talking and analysis, punishes those who talk. Anything you say can and will be used against you in court, err, later during the game. The more you say, the more you have that can be used against you.
Here, Kiradawea gives the best argument against herself. All we have to go on is what we say, when we say it, and points out that the more you say, the more you put yourself in danger.
In the rest of that quote, she went on to wax lyrical on how only investigative roles are capable of saying anything for certain, and even then what they learn might be suspect (which could be taken as some subtle obfuscation) but this is false. While mafia know alignments from the start (they may need to watch for a few potential third party win conditions), town roles may also have common information the mafia don't have through their role sheets. This common information is just hard to coordinate, between other town members not picking up on it, the 'Don't quote rolesheet' rule, and each town death revealing more and more information to the mafia. But go back and look at the information revealed by Luce's death. Now consider the following
With Sylandra having said that alliances and laws of succession will have an impact on powers, I do not think that we are dealing with a cult, as balance wise it would be very tricky.
But we know that we have at least three main factions, French (town), Scottish (allied with town, but potentially having their own win condition), English (mafia), and then potentially outsiders. The only scenario I can see with some cult justification is if the Scottish alliance with France falls through the Dauphin dying. Then Mary and the other Scots win by outnumbering the remaining French/English, and in which case Mary herself would likely become the cult leader.
I've explained why I used my power above, and can't say much more to make you believe me. But once more, it's an awkward power that doesn't really help town who are reliant on lynches to win. I was not going to use it on Day 1, and it was only the fact that no one died in Night 1 that we had a scenario where I could use it to extract information from an aggressive player who was looking like a lunatic, without scuppering town's chances.
As for where I am now, like Ssaliss I can believe Tekora is who he says, but some questions still surround his allegiance. I'm not sure if you @Kiradawea are simply overthinking things, or trying to sow confusion through non-committal talk of Jesters/cults etc.
Except this is, simply put, false. You could at any point have proven your Governor power at the end of a day by taking a random person in under your protection. But okay, I'll believe you for now if you say that your motivation was to extract information from Tekora. It still feels staged, but now you did mention something that I can't let pass.
How do you know that the scots are a faction unto themselves?
This for me was strike 1. Whereas everything I said agrees with the information now revealed by Luce's death, Kiradawea challenging me on the Scots being a faction to themselves, revealed that whoever she may be, she does not share some information common to some (if not all) town members. While I realise Aloysius' rolesheet didn't specifically mention the alliance with Scotland either, it does at least mention being loyal to Mary. My response was that it was evident from the intro post, but I said that mainly due to the fact that I was wary of the don't quote rolesheet rule.
My strike 2 was the pushing of the cult premise for pure obfuscation, and RAWR Silvanus that you are now taking up that banner. It makes me wonder if you are in cahoots with Kiradawea, by continuing to try to discredit me based on nothing more than Kiradawea saying 'staged conversation' and you now saying 'Ushaara survived, therefore is likely mafia/cult'.
Just as Aloysius was a Protestant but a loyal Frenchman, I am convinced that Kiradawea will be either a Catholic but an English agent (I'd put money on Stephane Narcisse), or a lunatic, and pushed that we only need to worry about Protestants, knowing that if religiously investigated, she would show as Catholic.
But I am absolutely adamant in my thinking that a cult is simply too much of a complication in a game with at least three win conditions, French (see Aloysius' condition), Scottish (see Luce's) and then the mafia win, not to mention laws of succession and whether holding the throne grants further powers. Aloysius' death shows us that Protestantism as a cult doesn't make sense, and until a death comes back to us that says definitively 'cult,' I will be holding to this view.
For me the only benefit of pushing a cult theory is obfuscation, and to make town paranoid about who can be trusted. I revealed myself early as governor yes, and I have explained why multiple times. I can't say more to make people believe me, but I hope at this stage more of you are unconvinced by the cult theory.
My Strike 3 is that Kiradawea is simply suspiciously cautious in her postings. She has seemingly tried to reveal as little as possible in every post, has not make any votes that could lead to potential bandwagon accusations, and aside from planting her flag behind her one committal of pushing a cult theory, has been equivocating on every single point raised.
So no surprise that I'm going to Vote Kiradawea again.
(If I'm wrong, and this blows it for town, mea maxima culpa, I will take full blame for losing us the game, but she is just way to shifty for me that I'm willing to go for it.)
Further thinking about how to best defend myself here so I had a few thoughts.
Obviously the scum want Elizabeth to take the throne over Mary, so the best way to do that is eliminate the line of succession yes?
How easy is it then that I can see who is who to then turn around and eliminate them. If I were this consigliere, I could investigate, find the names, off them the next night and no one would be the wiser. This seems really powerful tool for the scum to have in this game, where the line of succession is everything.
Wouldn't it make more sense that the information I'd receive would be less telling and more detective work would have be involved. I'm not saying that Vivet is trying to frame me because she's herself scum (that'd be a really weird play if it were true) but I don't really think being able to discover names is a damning truth.
Tekora also claimed that I was trying to avoid discussion, where I've instead tried to promote it by changing votes etc. Case in point, Kiradawea. His story continues to flippity flop all over the place with no real foundation.
Erf. Lots have happened. Sorry for poking my head in late, I've been busy.
First of all, since Vivet has claimed investigator and a desire to investigate me, let me go ahead and make my claim.
I am Clarissa, the ghost. And I am claiming now because all investigations against me will return inconclusive results because I keep hiding myself away.
Now to elaborate on a few things. The reason I've been suspecting that there's a religious cult is because I am explicitly neither Catholic nor Protestant. I initially figured that there might be an investigator that checks for faiths. With the reveal Vivet presented, that she checks nationality, I'm no longer that sure regarding my suspicions about faith as a cult, though I still maintain it's the source of the primary conflict.
Regarding Vivet's claim of being an investigator, I am inclined to believe it. It's far too early for a falseclaim like that to have any good tactical value. You don't sacrifice one of your mafia members unless you know you can claim victory. So I'm certain that when Vivet says that she saw Synkarin as an englishman, then that's the truth.
And I also think that it means that he is scum. If he truly was an Englishman eager to put Mary on the throne, why not reveal the name of his role to the world when claiming investigator? It would lend credibility to his claim of innocence.
Secondly, Silvanus is right in questioning why they would target Luce. As scum, you want to eliminate information-gathering roles first. And roleblocker, while no investigator, is still a powerful role for gathering information for town. I won't rehash his arguments, but I wonder if scum knew to target Luce as an investigative role. Scum-investigator is not unheard of. I used that in my game. For me, this is yet another reason to suspect Synkarin.
I will not vote for Synkarin just yet though. Although I think he's scummy, a lot of information has been revealed today, and we'll need time to parse through all of it. We've got by my count four people who've made a claim today. We should parse through all of them before deciding on a lynch.
Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
I already told you who I investigated night 1, and have had it confirmed. I also told you who I tried to investigate night 2 and was blocked, which has also been confirmed by Tekora.
So the question is, how did I investigate Luce to know he was a tracker on night one so that the mafia could kill him night two? It's unlikely the scum would have two investigators, which would be the only way they'd know who Luce was.
It's also interesting that you find it suspicious that I didn't reveal my name, but Vivet hasn't revealed hers either. Double standard much?
Oh. I almost forgot. @Vivet you're saying that Othero has a uniform from Navarre right? The only guy from Navarre I could find was this guy.
If there are no other guys from Navarre in the show, then that makes Othero suspicious as well.
This is why I'm starting to hate the flavour for this game. This is not the same as the other article I found on the same character initially, and paints him in a much more unpleasant light.
I'm not interested in name claiming, because I am a Scot. There are bound to be a limited number of Scots running around, and outing too many of them might make it all too easy to deduce who Mary is. Especially with Marie dead. Maybe I am Mary myself! Maybe I am not. I'd rather make the scum guess.
So come on, @Othero, why don't you tell us more about yourself too? I may be very paranoid of any apparent Englishman, but you're far from off the hook.
Okay. I've given things some more thought. Thanks to the reveal of Chirbo's role, we know that there's an investigator that checks for belief. Vivet has claimed investigations that return nationality. Synkarin has claimed investigations that return name. This leaves us with a third belief investigator, and I find it really hard that we'll have three town investigators out there. I find it highly likely that Synkarin is scum.
Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
(just a minor OOC update, the cold hit me like the side of a tractor (I think that's how the saying goes?), so I'll be cuddled up in bed for a couple of days)
It's there in Chirbo's role, but the wording says "may". It's ambiguous as to whether or not his Protestanism would be revealed. I'm also saying nationality based on what I've found - that seems to be the theme so far.
Also, if what Celina is saying is accurate, we have to accept that a scum kill attempt was made on her the very night after Synkarin investigated her. Coincidence? Maybe. But it makes for a very fascinating coincidence.
Oh, That doesn't mean there's a third investigator. It simply means that by learning who someone is, we'll know their religion. For instance, we all know Celina is Catherine now, who was a Catholic. Had I investigated Chirbo, seen his name, and looked up his role, I'd have known he was Protestant.
Comments
I'm getting some food and will hopefully be able to reply more substantially in an hour or two.
Interesting night, but since I am still pretty much seething and frothing at the mouth, doing all but shouting LYNCH KIRADAWEA at the screen, let me get this out of the way. Here, Kiradawea gives the best argument against herself. All we have to go on is what we say, when we say it, and points out that the more you say, the more you put yourself in danger.
In the rest of that quote, she went on to wax lyrical on how only investigative roles are capable of saying anything for certain, and even then what they learn might be suspect (which could be taken as some subtle obfuscation) but this is false. While mafia know alignments from the start (they may need to watch for a few potential third party win conditions), town roles may also have common information the mafia don't have through their role sheets. This common information is just hard to coordinate, between other town members not picking up on it, the 'Don't quote rolesheet' rule, and each town death revealing more and more information to the mafia. But go back and look at the information revealed by Luce's death. Now consider the following
This for me was strike 1. Whereas everything I said agrees with the information now revealed by Luce's death, Kiradawea challenging me on the Scots being a faction to themselves, revealed that whoever she may be, she does not share some information common to some (if not all) town members. While I realise Aloysius' rolesheet didn't specifically mention the alliance with Scotland either, it does at least mention being loyal to Mary. My response was that it was evident from the intro post, but I said that mainly due to the fact that I was wary of the don't quote rolesheet rule.
My strike 2 was the pushing of the cult premise for pure obfuscation, and RAWR Silvanus that you are now taking up that banner. It makes me wonder if you are in cahoots with Kiradawea, by continuing to try to discredit me based on nothing more than Kiradawea saying 'staged conversation' and you now saying 'Ushaara survived, therefore is likely mafia/cult'.
Just as Aloysius was a Protestant but a loyal Frenchman, I am convinced that Kiradawea will be either a Catholic but an English agent (I'd put money on Stephane Narcisse), or a lunatic, and pushed that we only need to worry about Protestants, knowing that if religiously investigated, she would show as Catholic.
But I am absolutely adamant in my thinking that a cult is simply too much of a complication in a game with at least three win conditions, French (see Aloysius' condition), Scottish (see Luce's) and then the mafia win, not to mention laws of succession and whether holding the throne grants further powers. Aloysius' death shows us that Protestantism as a cult doesn't make sense, and until a death comes back to us that says definitively 'cult,' I will be holding to this view.
For me the only benefit of pushing a cult theory is obfuscation, and to make town paranoid about who can be trusted. I revealed myself early as governor yes, and I have explained why multiple times. I can't say more to make people believe me, but I hope at this stage more of you are unconvinced by the cult theory.
My Strike 3 is that Kiradawea is simply suspiciously cautious in her postings. She has seemingly tried to reveal as little as possible in every post, has not make any votes that could lead to potential bandwagon accusations, and aside from planting her flag behind her one committal of pushing a cult theory, has been equivocating on every single point raised.
So no surprise that I'm going to Vote Kiradawea again.
(If I'm wrong, and this blows it for town, mea maxima culpa, I will take full blame for losing us the game, but she is just way to shifty for me that I'm willing to go for it.)
First of all, since Vivet has claimed investigator and a desire to investigate me, let me go ahead and make my claim.
I am Clarissa, the ghost. And I am claiming now because all investigations against me will return inconclusive results because I keep hiding myself away.
Now to elaborate on a few things. The reason I've been suspecting that there's a religious cult is because I am explicitly neither Catholic nor Protestant. I initially figured that there might be an investigator that checks for faiths. With the reveal Vivet presented, that she checks nationality, I'm no longer that sure regarding my suspicions about faith as a cult, though I still maintain it's the source of the primary conflict.
Regarding Vivet's claim of being an investigator, I am inclined to believe it. It's far too early for a falseclaim like that to have any good tactical value. You don't sacrifice one of your mafia members unless you know you can claim victory. So I'm certain that when Vivet says that she saw Synkarin as an englishman, then that's the truth.
And I also think that it means that he is scum. If he truly was an Englishman eager to put Mary on the throne, why not reveal the name of his role to the world when claiming investigator? It would lend credibility to his claim of innocence.
Secondly, Silvanus is right in questioning why they would target Luce. As scum, you want to eliminate information-gathering roles first. And roleblocker, while no investigator, is still a powerful role for gathering information for town. I won't rehash his arguments, but I wonder if scum knew to target Luce as an investigative role. Scum-investigator is not unheard of. I used that in my game. For me, this is yet another reason to suspect Synkarin.
I will not vote for Synkarin just yet though. Although I think he's scummy, a lot of information has been revealed today, and we'll need time to parse through all of it. We've got by my count four people who've made a claim today. We should parse through all of them before deciding on a lynch.
If there are no other guys from Navarre in the show, then that makes Othero suspicious as well.