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Dreamweaving additions

EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
in Common Grounds
Here are the complete Dreamweaving AB's. More details to come.
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Comments

  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    Dreamblade, Dreamjack, Dreamtower are the new skills?
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    Also 

    DREAMWEAVING - DREAMBEAST

    Syntax: DREAMCAST BEAST <target>
    Only castable while in the dreamrealm. Sommon a dreambeast blade that will throw random motes at 
    your opponent. It cannot follow you into another room if you move.


    Between EternalSleep and Possess.
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    edited December 2015
    Dreamblade and Dreambeast appear to strike every 5s. Dreamblade was dealing 256 damage to me. Dream tower lasts a very very long time, but if you manage to escape the dreamweaver has no method of dropping it voluntarily. 

    It looks like you cannot put people to sleep while they are in Nirvana. Haunt doesn't work right now in Nirvana, that will hopefully be fixed. People in Nirvana are periodically silently sprawled, this will also hopefully be fixed. Burst works on DWs in Nirvana. 

    It looks like people in Nirvana (including the dreamjacked) cannot be targeted by anything for the duration. Dreamjacking moves the caster and victim to different random rooms in Nirvana. 
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    This took me a while to get until Enyalida explained it. For someone to get to the Dream realm via jacking, they have to declare the dreamweaver. Not the other way around, else it has a 100% fail rate and just strips insomnia/sleeps.

    when you're in the dream realm, your body in the real world has some sort of prismatic aura.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    edited December 2015
    Yes, that's right. 

    From what I'm seeing, you won't be able to dreamjack someone without significant help, and once they're in Nirvana, you won't have the tools needed to kill them - and you will be removing them from harm at the hands of your help . Depending on their class, they may be disarmed by traveling to Nirvana as well (Cavaliers and Melders). So, it's basically a powerless maze that also removes the caster from combat. 
  • MarcellaMarcella
    More like '1v1 city' since you 'still have all your corporeal abilities.' Geomancer vs Aquamancer in a small arena, start new meld go go go.
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    edited December 2015
    The problem is that it's not a small arena. It's bigger than most of the arenas, in fact. I haven't counted rooms, but I'd wager it's ~80 rooms big or more? 

    EDIT: Also, some abilities are disabled. Notably, you can't put people to sleep. That means (for Druids) that dreamweaving just won't have enough abilities to keep someone in sap. That's the case in corporeal body already, but it's worse in Nirvana. 
  • MarcellaMarcella
    edited December 2015
    Except everyone always counts as asleep, so if you're in Nirvana it's literally <50% ego and you're dead, AND you get to use all your corporeal abilities.
  • LuceLuce Fox Populi
    Although not explicitly stated, you cannot use Dreamjack from an arena. Dreamweavers can meld on Nirvana, but cannot return to that meld from another plane (of course). They CAN centre from any place within Nirvana, as usual, even if those places are not directly connected. Dreamslipping returns you to the place you left from, and Nirvana is far enough away that you can't hear Prime without more planar than Astroweave.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    Marcella said:
    Except everyone always counts as asleep, so if you're in Nirvana it's literally <50% ego and you're dead, AND you get to use all your corporeal abilities.

    we should probably test this.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • LuceLuce Fox Populi
    Oh, and you and another dreamweaver can theoretically Jack people into the same area, thereby having four people in one spot.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    Imo, Nirvana isn't meant to be a place to snatched people off to. How is the hunting/influencing?
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    edited December 2015
    And how do you propose getting someone to 50% ego? The skills are totally non-conducive to that.

    To illustrate that, eternalsleep used to require asleep or max tiredness. At max tiredness it wasn't possible to get most targets to 50% mana without fully sap locking them first (at which point it's a waste of 8p to eternalsleep). Dreamweaving has been heavily heavily nerfed since then, shifted to ego, and even the nerfed sleep mechanics just don't work in Nirvana. 


    EDIT: Dreamjack was patched to mention the arena thing. 
  • MarcellaMarcella
    Iuno, I thought I remembered reading a skill in there that was about leeching ego. That plus an entire demesne or whatever...I'm not familiar with the skills, so Ig uess you know better
  • LuceLuce Fox Populi
    edited December 2015
    Slip does, but as of just a second ago, Jack does not unless I'm blind. which is entirely possible, it's been a long day. Did catch and report an unrelated typo.

    EDIT: Just tested Channel (the ability in question) which hit for about 1000 ego, and notably does NOT restore the user's ego, which may be a bug.
  • MarcellaMarcella
    I just figure that geomancer pressures HP so much that you could be able to sneak an ego kill. But I don't actually KNOW.
  • TylwythTylwyth
    edited December 2015
    dreamweaving got nerfed by a guadi/illuminati favored envoy report.
    I think the admins wanted to get rid of the tired mechanic as it was deemed to OP, which woudl have been fine. But it was nerfed in a bad way that favored one class AFAIK.
    Just switching back to a  mana kill would solve some/alot of that.


    FOR pposters who aren't steingrim:

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  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    It's easier to dreamjack than I originally supposed, but the rest generally stands.
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective.
    edited December 2015
    Countdown until this thread turns into complaints about general dreamweaving and druids..5..4..

    Oh, we're already there.


    In all seriousness, complainvoys have had a lot of time to envoy changes for DW, and the admin have even gone so far as to try and revamp it on their own. Right now they are looking for feedback about these changes, not reason why so and so hates druids/attrition mechanics/past changes/etc. So let's start with providing that.

    I think the general idea is pretty cool. Forces some 1v1s. The changes can be geared towards making those 1v1s viable (without being easy mode death traps) for the dreamweaver. This means people will have to be able to run around, otherwise they'll just get owned by allergies. Though....we should probably just change allergies to not be run or die so that the rest of the melders don't get the shaft at the expense of druids. I don't see a way to make this mechanic work for melders fairly, mostly because mage melds can be survived indefinitely where as druid melds cannot. I think a decision needs to be made here, do we want this DW idea to work for melds? It cannot work (in a fair way anyways) with abilities that require people to leave melds like allergies.

    Either make it a skill that forces a meld fight (and change allergies) or just scratch the idea of this mechanic giving a melder an advantage, because people will just make use of the enormous size of nirvana and not fight in the meld. I don't see a middle ground here.

    Based on the things I've heard so far, a few changes I think would be good are:

    1) Smaller area within Nirvana.
    2) Target and weaver enter in the same room, and that room is predictable so the weaver can set up to actually take advantage of this mechanic.
    3) A timer. Weaver has X amount of time before the target is flung back to their body.
    4) Maybe an easier way to dreamjack people. It's really hard to get insomnia down and to stay down as a weaver. You can't even mask it behind blackout.
    5) Dreambeast is weird. Random motes is blah because most of the motes aren't that good. That being said, I don't care to see more control until the length of blackout from memoryloss is addressed. 



    image
  • TylwythTylwyth
    Celina said:


    Based on the things I've heard so far, a few changes I think would be good are:

    1) Smaller area within Nirvana.
    2) Target and weaver enter in the same room, and that room is predictable so the weaver can set up to actually take advantage of this mechanic.
    3) A timer. Weaver has X amount of time before the target is flung back to their body.
    4) Maybe an easier way to dreamjack people. It's really hard to get insomnia down and to stay down as a weaver. You can't even mask it behind blackout.
    5) Dreambeast is weird. Random motes is blah because most of the motes aren't that good. That being said, I don't care to see more control until the length of blackout from memoryloss is addressed. 



    Ok, focusing on constructive stuff, do you want longer blackout or shorter?
    It would be nice if dreambeast could be commanded to do a specific mote, which it did until you changed it or let it be random.

    The timer thing merits consideration IMO.
    FOR pposters who aren't steingrim:

    image
  • MarcellaMarcella
    I really freaking love the idea of forcing 1v1s.

    Group combat with forced 1v1s is freakin' amazing. I want to go geo/dreamweaver, like, now.
  • TylwythTylwyth
    Oh, erm, don't try ascending out of the Dreaming/Nirvana, you'll get stuck in dream form.

    FOR pposters who aren't steingrim:

    image
  • AzulaAzula
    How does a non-dreamweaver, return from the dreamworld?
  • LuceLuce Fox Populi
    Azula said:
    How does a non-dreamweaver, return from the dreamworld?
    Kill the dreamweaver, timeout, or force the dreamweaver to slip back to their body.
  • LuceLuce Fox Populi
    Tylwyth said:
    Oh, erm, don't try ascending out of the Dreaming/Nirvana, you'll get stuck in dream form.

    If you get stuck in dreamform, contact a dreamweaver, sleep within the dreamform, have the weaver dreamjack you and drop back down, it SHOULD fix the issue. It's still a bug, but it's one that players have a workaround for for now. It's worth mentioning that this also happens if the dreamjack happens to drop the weaver and/or the victim onto the golden bridge. Which it has for me twice now and Fateflings you to the Portal of Fate and then immediately back to where your body was. It's really, REALLY weird.

    I'm thinking we should treat this as an OOC sort of action in-game if we're just fixing a bug, but that'd be a sort of gentlemen's agreement between players and admin to not punish dreamweavers for helping random people.
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective.
    edited December 2015
    Tylwyth said:
    Celina said:


    Based on the things I've heard so far, a few changes I think would be good are:

    1) Smaller area within Nirvana.
    2) Target and weaver enter in the same room, and that room is predictable so the weaver can set up to actually take advantage of this mechanic.
    3) A timer. Weaver has X amount of time before the target is flung back to their body.
    4) Maybe an easier way to dreamjack people. It's really hard to get insomnia down and to stay down as a weaver. You can't even mask it behind blackout.
    5) Dreambeast is weird. Random motes is blah because most of the motes aren't that good. That being said, I don't care to see more control until the length of blackout from memoryloss is addressed. 



    Ok, focusing on constructive stuff, do you want longer blackout or shorter?
    It would be nice if dreambeast could be commanded to do a specific mote, which it did until you changed it or let it be random.

    The timer thing merits consideration IMO.
    Shorter. Enough to hide one attack (so a half to 1 second longer than the eq cost). Memoryloss is actually one of the things that holds the skillset back from solid changes. It's the choke effect, one skill being too strong will keep the skillset from progressing.

    Currently it's the longest blackout in the game, and is ridiculous to fight against. 
    image
  • LuceLuce Fox Populi
    General notes to address one or two points from Celina: There IS a timeout to the Dreamjacking, or there was for when I tested with @Orventa to try to show him Nirvana. He eventually got flung back, and so, in fact, did I, after a few minutes. It took me at least 10-15 minutes of inactivity to get flung (I was working on other things, just keeping an eye on the window.) but Orventa vanished without a notice after no more than 5-7 minutes.

    Every time I've dreamjacked someone, with one exception for landing on the bridge, my target and I appeared in the same room, which was a single random room in Nirvana. The very first time I dreamslipped I went to the bridge of gold, but was alone, and immediately got flung to the Portal of Fate, and from there it dropped me at my corpse (As I said in last post, it's WEIRD when you land on that room), the next time was the area with every mapped room in white, with the six pillars on compass points, then every time after save another one that dropped me on the bridge I was in the main Nirvana area with the central pillar.

    If your target declares you on-prime it seems to be automatic, otherwise it requires insomnia stripping, etc. Which is, as pointed out, an uphill battle. In the snow. Being attacked by Jotun. Blindfolded.
  • OrventaOrventa
    edited December 2015
    @Luce, if you encountered me, it wasn't me :p but that sounds interesting. Orv's Institute, and female. And if anyone's impersonating me... not cool folks.


    I'm a consent-based roleplayer! Kindly ask first, and I will return the favour. Open to developing tinyplots.
    Atlantis is my client of choice! (Guide)
  • LuceLuce Fox Populi
    I may be getting my Hallifaxian O names mixed up, then. Luce's an Aeromancer and I announced over CT that I was willing to play chauffeur. I'm also horrid with genders when running on not a lot of sleep. Mighta been Calesta, though, since Calesta showed up at around the same time my plus one disappeared. If so, I don't know that IC and honestly wouldn't think to check, so... :-??
  • MalaynMalayn
    So, to build on Celina, I agree with her in most areas.  Ok, breath, relax, world isn't ending..

    Are you ok? Alright!

    1) Timer needs to not be super high. The ability to even remove someone from combat for 5 minutes is insane. In 5 minutes the entire group should be decimated.
    2) Dreamweaver should not get a shield. Right now, a weaver could remove THEMSELVES from combat and hide behind shield. Most weavers will already weave from a manse or other safe place as well.
    3) Druids and chasm will be crazy with the ability to lock all exits, this should not be able to stay a thing, and allergies should really change if this is intended to stay around.
    4) Dreamweavers should have a delay to snap out of the realm. It isn't fair that they can end a fight as soon as they are losing with no repercussions.
    5) Give targets an immunity to being dragged back, without their consent (in cases of testing for instance). 
    6) Weaver can also dreamjack an ally to make both invincible for a time. Making their body a target would help, also we should have a way deal with a body that has been hidden so they cant use it to save allies under prism.

    I like the idea of 1v1, but there are a few skills that are impossible to fight/stop if you can't go anywhere. Dreamrealm should pose a significant risk to the weaver, both in combat, and to the body on the ground.
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