EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
Xenthos, your posts have consistently been denying that Silvanus has done nothing at all. Which is not true. We may not be able to see what's been done, and it doesn't make any IC difference, but you keep arguing that Silvanus did nothing, when that's clearly not the case. That's what I'm pointing out.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
Xenthos, your posts have consistently been denying that Silvanus has done nothing at all. Which is not true. We may not be able to see what's been done, and it doesn't make any IC difference, but you keep arguing that Silvanus did nothing, when that's clearly not the case. That's what I'm pointing out.
No. His posts are arguing that since we, IC, haven't seen anything done, to our characters it LOOKS like nothing has been done, which, naturally, leads to the conclusion IC that nothing HAS been done.
I'm Lucidian. If I don't get pedantic every so often, I might explode.
1
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
Xenthos, your posts have consistently been denying that Silvanus has done nothing at all. Which is not true. We may not be able to see what's been done, and it doesn't make any IC difference, but you keep arguing that Silvanus did nothing, when that's clearly not the case. That's what I'm pointing out.
No. His posts are arguing that since we, IC, haven't seen anything done, to our characters it LOOKS like nothing has been done, which, naturally, leads to the conclusion IC that nothing HAS been done.
I read them and still get a very, "No, you haven't done anything," vibe from them in an OOC way.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
Xenthos, your posts have consistently been denying that Silvanus has done nothing at all. Which is not true. We may not be able to see what's been done, and it doesn't make any IC difference, but you keep arguing that Silvanus did nothing, when that's clearly not the case. That's what I'm pointing out.
My posts have been consistently denying that Magnagora has done anything with Glomdoring.
For example: "To which I can only say that if Magnagora had been willing to put in the
effort that Celest did when they were told "no" about the
Raziela-bracelet, I really do think that something would've happened.
And, even if not, simply putting in that effort alongside Glomdoring
would have absolutely been all we were looking for (as Lavinya and I
have discussed since then, Magnagora didn't really get / understand that
part of it and it wasn't conveyed very well, but it's one of those
things where roleplaying efforts instead of just going "Admin said we
can't do it, we give up" would have been like night and day in terms of
how things went between the two orgs)."
Given that at the very least, Celest did approach other organizations, kept kicking the anthill outside New Celest to get their message across, and so forth we can say that the same effort was not put forth (which is not to say that no effort at all was, but the point of pushing for player-driven events is to get more and more people caught up and pushing for it so that it catches someone's attention-- doing things privately just isn't going to have the same effect). Past that, I explicitly stated that we were looking for Magnagora to be interested in working with us.
Another quote: "In this case, what would have had the greatest chance of success
would have been Magnagora and Glomdoring working together. Nihilists
and Shadowdancers speaking with Maeve (and they would have had to do so
repeatedly, it could have been part of an overarching central point to
an agreement / treaty between the organizations, much as certain
ceremonies / festivals are used IRL). It would definitely have been a
strong bonding point; my understanding is that Magnagora wasn't aware
that Nifilhema was going to do the mark in the first place, and even if
they were it wouldn't have been too difficult to convince Glomdoring
that they weren't (by putting effort into having it removed).
At
least, that's how I see it; in fact, that is kind of what I was even
hoping for at the time (I as a person am not actually as hateful towards
Magnagora as a whole as one might think, though there are certain
elements in Magnagora whom I have a great distaste for I do actually
understand that there's a larger-- and much more pleasant to deal with--
base of players there). There was a great opportunity for us to
actually have a bonding experience and work together for a common goal (which would have easily worked to sweep away the bad history / blood between the organizations, as well).
Instead we had an uneasy standoffish relationship, and it just didn't work out well for either side in the end."
Another quote: "Or you could actually spend two seconds reading what I wrote, and
determining that I was not really suggesting a lot of speaking to
Nifilhema. Most of what I was suggesting involved working with Maeve
herself, as a team. I'm sure that there would have been some, but the
bulk of it would have most likely centered around Faethorn and Maeve
herself (at least how I envision it), since that's where the actual
thing to study is. If you are getting no support from the DLs (which
they were not), that's the next logical step if you actually wanted to work on things." (I mean, heck, even here I acknowledged that they were trying to talk to DLs on an OOC level, I don't know what more you want!)
Then you have the quote in the previous post... basically, I don't see where you're coming from at all here. Tridemon's got it exactly right.
It's a brand bearing the Mark of the Demon Lord, I, being a life long Nihilist and Guild Honored by them, would not go behind their back to remove something they placed. Just as your roleplay dictates you must stand and protect Faethorn, I can't go and undo what the Demon Lords did without their permission.
And if I never get a response from the Demon Lords, ever, that means the plot line can't move forward from a Magnagoran perspective, and we were stuck in a two year weird stalemate.
Until Viravain and Lisaera had a meeting about the brand in Faethorn.
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
It's a brand bearing the Mark of the Demon Lord, I, being a life long Nihilist and Guild Honored by them, would not go behind their back to remove something they placed. Just as your roleplay dictates you must stand and protect Faethorn, I can't go and undo what the Demon Lords did without their permission.
And if I never get a response from the Demon Lords, ever, that means the plot line can't move forward from a Magnagoran perspective, and we were stuck in a two year weird stalemate.
Until Viravain and Lisaera had a meeting about the brand in Faethorn.
And I actually completely understand that on an OOC level. It makes absolute sense when you put it that way... as a player. It just doesn't work so well diplomatically, unfortunately. Sometimes good RP has outcomes that seem pretty harsh. Like Glomdoring being skeptical of the Illithoids (woops, Crow is dead! The forest's on fire!)
What I can say is that on an OOC level, that turned out pretty well for Glomdoring. It's a spot in our history that we can point to and say, "See, we really loathe the kepherans because of xyz, and we aren't really all that fond of the illithoids either". I would caution you on being too pessimistic on whatever happens in this (if anything), because we just don't know how it's going to turn out. It may end up being that Magnagora is needed after all. Or not. It may be a huge rallying cry for Magnagora. Or it could be, as you posit, Magnagora getting the short end of the stick. I'd like to think that the admin are going to try something relatively balanced and fun for players, though.
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EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
It's a brand bearing the Mark of the Demon Lord, I, being a life long Nihilist and Guild Honored by them, would not go behind their back to remove something they placed. Just as your roleplay dictates you must stand and protect Faethorn, I can't go and undo what the Demon Lords did without their permission.
And if I never get a response from the Demon Lords, ever, that means the plot line can't move forward from a Magnagoran perspective, and we were stuck in a two year weird stalemate.
Until Viravain and Lisaera had a meeting about the brand in Faethorn.
And I actually completely understand that on an OOC level. It makes absolute sense when you put it that way... as a player. It just doesn't work so well diplomatically, unfortunately. Sometimes good RP has outcomes that seem pretty harsh. Like Glomdoring being skeptical of the Illithoids (woops, Crow is dead! The forest's on fire!)
What I can say is that on an OOC level, that turned out pretty well for Glomdoring. It's a spot in our history that we can point to and say, "See, we really loathe the kepherans because of xyz, and we aren't really all that fond of the illithoids either". I would caution you on being too pessimistic on whatever happens in this (if anything), because we just don't know how it's going to turn out. It may end up being that Magnagora is needed after all. Or not. It may be a huge rallying cry for Magnagora. Or it could be, as you posit, Magnagora getting the short end of the stick. I'd like to think that the admin are going to try something relatively balanced and fun for players, though.
This is the kind of thing I wasn't seeing before (rightly or wrongly), so I'm glad it's been said.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
Good Lord, do you all hear yourselves? From what it looks like, Silvanus went about trying to get the brand removed in a logical way in accordance with appropriate RP. So what if no one saw it? And yes, from a character perspective, we can "know" that Silvanus did "nothing". But for crying out loud, at least acknowledge from a player perspective that he worked hard trying to oblige the demands to remove the brand, and nothing came from it. Acknowledge that the player worked hard in their own way, even though it led to jack squat.
Or stick to your stupid narrative that Celest did a bunch of work (which, really, they didn't) and Magnagora did nothing and use it to justify whatever.
Silvanus, thank you for going out of your way in secret to try to find a solution. I appreciate knowing that this is something you dedicated a lot of time to. Ev has no clue, many no other character has any clue. But player to player, thanks for trying.
I'm not sure what you're talking about, because I absolutely watched Celest trying for ages to get something to go somewhere. To say that Celest didn't is pretty absurd (or, to use your own words, a "stupid narrative"). They consistently tried to speak with Maeve, both forests, their own supernals until something stuck and they got the outcome they were looking for.
No, not exactly. If anything the got the outcome they were -not- hoping to do Since Maeve time and again refused to remove the mark, they had to try and find another way. Im just going to get copies from the events themselves rather than paraphrase.
" ...Seeing no alternatives, Japhiel, Illuminator of Merciful Justice, pulled Razenth aside and whispered a terrible thought that he had long held secret, knowing the cost of pursuing it would be great. The Supernal Japhiel suggested that there was one whose knowledge of the ways of bondage, bindings and torture might be great enough to be able to release Raziela from the bonds of the fae, but that entity was none other than Nifilhema, the Queen of Insufferable Cruelty. Though Japhiel could not condone trafficking with the Demon Lords of Nil, neither would he condemn this last act of desperation. "
Also I'd like to point out that it was indeed the communes that first started the branding concept by placing their brand on Raziela, which later that same brand was used, and twisted, to place the one on Maeve. Seems like justice to me.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Not two weeks ago I told the entire Court Mag was willing to offer their own demon lord to remove the brand, so I'm sorry but I have to call bullshit on this, Xenthos. It may have been recent, but there has obviously been an attempt by Mag and it came directly from my mouth to the Court. In fact, I had no idea about any of this Celest delegation business until just now. I wish you'd stop speaking on behalf of what glom has seen/knows, when it's clearly not the full story.
Not two weeks ago I told the entire Court Mag was willing to offer their own demon lord to remove the brand, so I'm sorry but I have to call bullshit on this, Xenthos. It may have been recent, but there has obviously been an attempt by Mag and it came directly from my mouth to the Court. In fact, I had no idea about any of this Celest delegation business until just now. I wish you'd stop speaking on behalf of what glom has seen/knows, when it's clearly not the full story.
Wait what.... I find that VERY hard to believe that Mag was willing to offer up a demon lord in sacrifice, and I would need @Silvanus to actually say it to find it at all belivable.
0
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
What you need to believe anyone is wholly irrelevant. You're not that important.
Answers
For example:
"To which I can only say that if Magnagora had been willing to put in the effort that Celest did when they were told "no" about the Raziela-bracelet, I really do think that something would've happened. And, even if not, simply putting in that effort alongside Glomdoring would have absolutely been all we were looking for (as Lavinya and I have discussed since then, Magnagora didn't really get / understand that part of it and it wasn't conveyed very well, but it's one of those things where roleplaying efforts instead of just going "Admin said we can't do it, we give up" would have been like night and day in terms of how things went between the two orgs)."
Given that at the very least, Celest did approach other organizations, kept kicking the anthill outside New Celest to get their message across, and so forth we can say that the same effort was not put forth (which is not to say that no effort at all was, but the point of pushing for player-driven events is to get more and more people caught up and pushing for it so that it catches someone's attention-- doing things privately just isn't going to have the same effect). Past that, I explicitly stated that we were looking for Magnagora to be interested in working with us.
Another quote:
"In this case, what would have had the greatest chance of success would have been Magnagora and Glomdoring working together. Nihilists and Shadowdancers speaking with Maeve (and they would have had to do so repeatedly, it could have been part of an overarching central point to an agreement / treaty between the organizations, much as certain ceremonies / festivals are used IRL). It would definitely have been a strong bonding point; my understanding is that Magnagora wasn't aware that Nifilhema was going to do the mark in the first place, and even if they were it wouldn't have been too difficult to convince Glomdoring that they weren't (by putting effort into having it removed).
At least, that's how I see it; in fact, that is kind of what I was even hoping for at the time (I as a person am not actually as hateful towards Magnagora as a whole as one might think, though there are certain elements in Magnagora whom I have a great distaste for I do actually understand that there's a larger-- and much more pleasant to deal with-- base of players there). There was a great opportunity for us to actually have a bonding experience and work together for a common goal (which would have easily worked to sweep away the bad history / blood between the organizations, as well).
Instead we had an uneasy standoffish relationship, and it just didn't work out well for either side in the end."
Another quote:
"Or you could actually spend two seconds reading what I wrote, and determining that I was not really suggesting a lot of speaking to Nifilhema. Most of what I was suggesting involved working with Maeve herself, as a team. I'm sure that there would have been some, but the bulk of it would have most likely centered around Faethorn and Maeve herself (at least how I envision it), since that's where the actual thing to study is. If you are getting no support from the DLs (which they were not), that's the next logical step if you actually wanted to work on things."
(I mean, heck, even here I acknowledged that they were trying to talk to DLs on an OOC level, I don't know what more you want!)
Then you have the quote in the previous post... basically, I don't see where you're coming from at all here. Tridemon's got it exactly right.
What I can say is that on an OOC level, that turned out pretty well for Glomdoring. It's a spot in our history that we can point to and say, "See, we really loathe the kepherans because of xyz, and we aren't really all that fond of the illithoids either". I would caution you on being too pessimistic on whatever happens in this (if anything), because we just don't know how it's going to turn out. It may end up being that Magnagora is needed after all. Or not. It may be a huge rallying cry for Magnagora. Or it could be, as you posit, Magnagora getting the short end of the stick. I'd like to think that the admin are going to try something relatively balanced and fun for players, though.
No, not exactly. If anything the got the outcome they were -not- hoping to do Since Maeve time and again refused to remove the mark, they had to try and find another way. Im just going to get copies from the events themselves rather than paraphrase.
" ...Seeing no alternatives, Japhiel, Illuminator of Merciful Justice, pulled
Razenth aside and whispered a terrible thought that he had long held
secret, knowing the cost of pursuing it would be great. The Supernal
Japhiel suggested that there was one whose knowledge of the ways of
bondage, bindings and torture might be great enough to be able to
release Raziela from the bonds of the fae, but that entity was none
other than Nifilhema, the Queen of Insufferable Cruelty. Though Japhiel
could not condone trafficking with the Demon Lords of Nil, neither would
he condemn this last act of desperation. "
Also I'd like to point out that it was indeed the communes that first started the branding concept by placing their brand on Raziela, which later that same brand was used, and twisted, to place the one on Maeve. Seems like justice to me.
Wait what.... I find that VERY hard to believe that Mag was willing to offer up a demon lord in sacrifice, and I would need @Silvanus to actually say it to find it at all belivable.