Real talk here guys: None of the admin pity Glom and we aren't really all that interested in player politics or alliances beyond what each god's RP dictates (ie Zvoltz would be against allying with Gaudi but would be cool with Mag while Jadice and Mysrai might be bros and want to hang out, but Jadice would not be okay buddying up to Mag).
I think some of you are misconstruing singular events or statements to fit some narrative of admin bias that doesn't actually exist. In fact, most admin err on the side of not even speaking up about anything political because inevitably someone comes to the forums to complain that we are all evil meddling people with some hidden agenda and as a group we only seek the ruin of <org name here>. I realize that as players, you do not have the benefit of seeing what happens behind the scenes, but outside of godly RP in our organizations, most of us spend time doing projects that help out orgs that are not the ones we patron, including the "enemy" org. I've build a decent amount of things for Gaudi and run a few events for them. Mag admins have done work for Hallifax. Serenwilde admins help out on stuff for Mag.
If there was an OOC admin initiative to support one org, Estarra or another administrator would just come out and say that there was. We aren't up to anything here, except to make the game a better experience for every player.
Real talk here guys: None of the admin pity Glom and we aren't really all that interested in player politics or alliances beyond what each god's RP dictates (ie Zvoltz would be against allying with Gaudi but would be cool with Mag while Jadice and Mysrai might be bros and want to hang out, but Jadice would not be okay buddying up to Mag).
I think some of you are misconstruing singular events or statements to fit some narrative of admin bias that doesn't actually exist. In fact, most admin err on the side of not even speaking up about anything political because inevitably someone comes to the forums to complain that we are all evil meddling people with some hidden agenda and as a group we only seek the ruin of <org name here>. I realize that as players, you do not have the benefit of seeing what happens behind the scenes, but outside of godly RP in our organizations, most of us spend time doing projects that help out orgs that are not the ones we patron, including the "enemy" org. I've build a decent amount of things for Gaudi and run a few events for them. Mag admins have done work for Hallifax. Serenwilde admins help out on stuff for Mag.
If there was an OOC admin initiative to support one org, Estarra or another administrator would just come out and say that there was. We aren't up to anything here, except to make the game a better experience for every player.
What if the god's rp is to be heavily interested in player politics and alliances (not that I'm saying any god is like this)? That, for example, Zvoltz was only interested in Hallifax being allies with Celest and no one else? Would he do everything he could to stop Halli from going against this belief?
It's pretty laughable to blame long term, hugely player driven animosity on specific quotes from gods, especially recent quotes in relation to old situations. There isn't any chance at peace right now between Mag and Seren, but it was that way long before the current Lisaera came back, and for entirely unrelated reasons. Again, I would know why Seren doesn't like Mag, I was on the council during our alliance, after our alliance, and for bug chunks of time since. I got called a caustic bitch by a god in connection for the time I went to bat ic against Hoaracle (to no avail, he never responded to my prayer) for getting mixed ic in the politics.
I can't speak to the Glom situation personally, but @Xenthos has made it pretty clear that it wasn't a divine or administrative rift, and that the mark business could have been easily sidestepped without administrative help.
Seriously, I object pretty loudly and strenuously when I feel that something was executed poorly, or there was some kind of misstep. At least during my time playing, I've never known there to be an obvious political administrative push, even if the gods in question have political agendas or stances ic.
The worst that can be said is that certain events seem to present hurdles to certain orgs pairing with certain others, but that's been a fact since day 1:there are compelling reasons for and against any particular union.
I was quite plainly told no about the mark business, multiple times. What sidestepping can be done? No Demon Lord has ever responded to me, Fain and Raezon aren't here, and I was told I can't fix the situation.
And then I'm denied any meeting with any Seren leaders by Lisaera, and when I meet with Lisaera, its all about the Mark that we've had zero control over, I've tried to fix, plenty of times, and have been told no.
I have no idea what any of you want from us about the mark. It is quite clearly an Admin driven event 10 years in the making, and Magnagora was denied any involvement in it, and will only be getting the Stick.
Regardless of Admin favoritism, it is very easily to see why a Magnagoran would perceive as biasedness. We tried to make peace with Glomdoring ages ago, but were told that we need to fix the Mark. We have tried to fix the Mark. We were told no. We have been denied meetings with Seren leaders, and when finally get to, its only about the Mark and how we are such terrible people.
Perception is a powerful tool, and it has very easily felt like we've been getting screwed without lube.
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
To which I can only say that if Magnagora had been willing to put in the effort that Celest did when they were told "no" about the Raziela-bracelet, I really do think that something would've happened. And, even if not, simply putting in that effort alongside Glomdoring would have absolutely been all we were looking for (as Lavinya and I have discussed since then, Magnagora didn't really get / understand that part of it and it wasn't conveyed very well, but it's one of those things where roleplaying efforts instead of just going "Admin said we can't do it, we give up" would have been like night and day in terms of how things went between the two orgs).
It's not like this was an arc 10 years in the making. At IronCon, when I asked Estarra about it, she seemed absolutely surprised that anyone even cared. I certainly didn't get the sense that there was any plan in place for it, it was simply where that event had gone / ended. The only reason it's being discussed now is RL years of dedicated RP efforts by Glomdoring (and Serenwilde) and Someone came up with what they feel is a good storyline about it. We have no idea what it is, but this is how player-driven RP events work. Glomdoring being released, Raziela's bracelet being removed, even the original historical families, are all about players focusing on something for a great deal of time until an Admin sees it and decides to run with it when it was not In The Works to begin with.
Again.. I tried. I tried to talk to the Demon Lords, I've still been trying to talk to any of the Demon Lords (well, not Gorg or Ash, they are useless).
I've gotten nothing, at all. Literally nothing.
So yes, it has easily felt like getting hit in the face with a stick, being told I can't do anything about it, and then being hit by a bigger stick because I already got hit with a stick.
I have no idea what effort Celest put into it, but you also have no idea what effort I have put into this. I've tried to make peace/ally Glomdoring since IC year 320 (almost 100 years ago, that's what, 4 years?), I've known about the Mark issue, I've been told no, I can't do anything about it, I've tried talking to Demon Lords, no response. What more do you want? I've put in the effort, I've been told no.
Editted to add: Oh yeah, and then being completely insulted when going to talk to Lisaera, and being shoved in the face with the Mark business. What a joke that was, and still is.
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
Again.. I tried. I tried to talk to the Demon Lords, I've still been trying to talk to any of the Demon Lords (well, not Gorg or Ash, they are useless).
I've gotten nothing, at all. Literally nothing.
So yes, it has easily felt like getting hit in the face with a stick, being told I can't do anything about it, and then being hit by a bigger stick because I already got hit with a stick.
I have no idea what effort Celest put into it, but you also have no idea what effort I have put into this. I've tried to make peace/ally Glomdoring since IC year 320 (almost 100 years ago, that's what, 4 years?), I've known about the Mark issue, I've been told no, I can't do anything about it, I've tried talking to Demon Lords, no response. What more do you want? I've put in the effort, I've been told no.
Editted to add: Oh yeah, and then being completely insulted when going to talk to Lisaera, and being shoved in the face with the Mark business. What a joke that was, and still is.
Celest continually sent delegations to speak with Maeve directly, though every time they were told "No". They repeatedly harassed the supernals, they ceaselessly tried over and over and over again until it caught an Admin's attention.
In this case, what would have had the greatest chance of success would have been Magnagora and Glomdoring working together. Nihilists and Shadowdancers speaking with Maeve (and they would have had to do so repeatedly, it could have been part of an overarching central point to an agreement / treaty between the organizations, much as certain ceremonies / festivals are used IRL). It would definitely have been a strong bonding point; my understanding is that Magnagora wasn't aware that Nifilhema was going to do the mark in the first place, and even if they were it wouldn't have been too difficult to convince Glomdoring that they weren't (by putting effort into having it removed).
At least, that's how I see it; in fact, that is kind of what I was even hoping for at the time (I as a person am not actually as hateful towards Magnagora as a whole as one might think, though there are certain elements in Magnagora whom I have a great distaste for I do actually understand that there's a larger-- and much more pleasant to deal with-- base of players there). There was a great opportunity for us to actually have a bonding experience and work together for a common goal (which would have easily worked to sweep away the bad history / blood between the organizations, as well).
Instead we had an uneasy standoffish relationship, and it just didn't work out well for either side in the end.
I have been ceaselessly trying to talk to a Demon Lord. Everytime I log in, I go and try and talk to Nifilhema. I don't understand what more you want. I've tried to speak to the Demon Lords first before even trying to speak to Maeve, because more information needs to be found.
And I've been given jack shit. Until Lisaera shoved it into my face again.
You keep saying all these suggestions, I have been doing them. Its very easy to give up on a solution when you've been trying for 4 years though.
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
I've never received anything from you, so I don't know what you're talking about. Enya certainly doesn't give a fig about what Lisaera had decreed, about anything (unless She's right). Totally open to talking to non-aggressive Magnagorans, albeit coldly - those characters who were around from Ironhart should know this.
I'm just confused by it being impossible to talk with Seren because Lisaera said no once. That's manifestly not true.
@Silvanus , based on posts here, any amount of effort is worth nothing unless you get the mark removed. It's very convenient for talk of teamwork when Glomdoring doesn't even allow free travel to non-enemies.
Gaudiguchians, Celestians, and Hallifaxians all have travel rights actually (though Gaudiguch's are "unofficial"). Hard to make a good point with inaccurate information.
I think a lot of this could be straightened out with people opening up a different way in RP - that means being susceptible to change as well so there is an opportunity able to be created because as someone new, reading this and watching interactions it looks like a lot of miscommunication.
As a note, before Camberre was enemied, he was walking around Glomdoring looking for trees to cut. I followed him around, and asked him if he had any business until he started trying to chop. Not allowing Magnagorans to walk in Glom territory isn't something that's been around for years and years. I personally wrote the news post to make it known that non-enemied Mags should be closely watched, after that incident. Not even a ban on travel, yet.
Sorry, no prizes for guessing what caused that to change.
Edit: sorry, I just found that post I wrote. I didn't even say to keep watch on non-enemied Magnagorans there. Must've been a later post.
Gaudiguchians, Celestians, and Hallifaxians all
have travel rights actually (though Gaudiguch's are "unofficial").
Hard to make a good point with inaccurate information.
When Mag and Glom had a NAP, Mags still were not allowed in. Even before then, there's a
many RL year history of non-enemied Mags not being allowed free travel.
I think a lot of this could be straightened out with people opening up a different way in RP - that means being susceptible to change as well so there is an opportunity able to be created because as someone new, reading this and watching interactions it looks like a lot of miscommunication.
I realize I've had a bit to drink but seriously, if you want a solution, you need to break the common walls and get out there. I took a risk with someone tonight and this was met with apathy - which shows the interest in trying for resolution.
Additionally, removing the mark would not interest the Demon Lords one bit. @Silvanus approaching them about it would if anything be seen as an insult. Why would the Demon Lords agree to remove such leverage of a conquest they achieved? Simply to have some buddy up to an org that 90% of Mag dislikes? I have had chats with Demon Lords on several occasions, and only about 4 days ago chatted with Nifilhema, and from their personality, it is clear to see they wouldnt give the idea of 'maeve suffering' a second thought. Good luck trying to sway them.
Additionally, if Silvanus had somehow gotten the mark removed behind the scenes, there would have been one heck of a mother flubbing uproar in Mag about it. He is already swimming in enough drama these days as is.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
I agree that there have been ridiculous expectations of Mag to remove the brand, when we as players all know this is entirely up to the admin. Sending endless delegations really did not do anything. If it's going to happen, it's going to happen when the admin have the time and initiative to do so. Not because delegation number 237 was sent by Celest to Maeve.
But for the record, Glom was anti letting anyone pass through for many years. It was the original RP to be extremely xenophobic and throw everyone out. It wasn't just Mag. Celest was kicked out during the Xynthin thing. I don't really think that had anything to do with teamwork, it's org RP, and I think a little silly to compare that with what's going on here, or that it's somehow reflective of how well the glom players can play well with others.
Also, sarcasm aside, the way the 'celest delegation' is being perceived and put as fact is incorrect.
Celest had sent several delegations to Maeve about the brand on Raziela, and were, naturally, rejected each time. The last time they were rejected, they began to consider if there was any other way to get it removed, and then were approached with A DIFFERENT AVENUE to try and get the brand removed, a far more darker alternative. Japhiel informed them that the only being likely to have a possible solution, would be the Queen of bondage and torture herself, Nifilhema, which is frankly a very logical outlook.
This put Celest in a very difficult position, of which they can keep going back to Maeve time and again in the hope that she will have a change of heart (which maybe had a 0.1% chance of working), or to go to their arch-nemesis and ask for their help. Then, with the assistance of Celest, Nifilhema did indeed remove the brand on Raziela (by having Maeve in her control of course), and then went about corrupting faethorn. Frankly it was a long time coming after the drama of hai'gloh.
Why do I bring this story up? Because from what I am seeing, Glomdoring (Xenthos specifically) has been moaning and berating about going to Nifilhema and repeatedly doing the same request of removing the brand, which frankly Nifi wont give 2 shits about. If anything she may twist the brand around and laugh as maeve squirms. How about looking for other possible solutions? I actually have one in mind, but then I would be helping the cause now wouldnt I?
Or you could actually spend two seconds reading what I wrote, and determining that I was not really suggesting a lot of speaking to Nifilhema. Most of what I was suggesting involved working with Maeve herself, as a team. I'm sure that there would have been some, but the bulk of it would have most likely centered around Faethorn and Maeve herself (at least how I envision it), since that's where the actual thing to study is. If you are getting no support from the DLs (which they were not), that's the next logical step if you actually wanted to work on things.
And, no, the Celest "delegation" is not being misrepresented whatsoever. In fact, it is pretty much an exact reflection of what is going on now. This one has just taken a great deal more time. The delegations and attempts were ignored, so they kept RPing and trying until a separate alternative was found that did not involve the organization(s) associated with the aggressor (who were not interested in addressing it themselves). In this case, that seems to be exactly what Lisaera has been telling Silvanus (so far at least, there's nothing to say that whatever they try doesn't work out the first time and Magnagora is given the opportunity to either help or oppose).
Also I admit, I love how Xenthos has been trying to 'force' people from other cities to RP towards the mindset he is insisting on, or else will forever sabotage any form of political relations. I especially find it interesting how he not only has been insisting on this Brand's removal for years now, but has gone to the point of telling players to 'play a certain way' which he believes will get him the results he wants (This being "Celest tried harder, why dont you!").
Additionally, no, The Celest delegation tried several times with maeve and -got no where-, and then sought other means. Additionally, the brand was placed by Nifilhema, with the powers of Nil and Celestia and is basically the same type of brand that was once placed on Raziela with the same circumstances (That being the magics that only the one whom placed it can remove it).
Quite Frankly, for the all the years of suffering Raziela had to do under the brand, and then the cities had to suffer from the, quite frankly bugged and unfair advantages of the hai'gloh which saw them lose millions of powers, I find it completely warrants to have Maeve in the state she is and hopefully to continue to be so.
P.S: If you think just some interaction with maeve and fancy event magic will get the brand removed, you're quite delusional.
Also I admit, I love how Xenthos has been trying to 'force' people from other cities to RP towards the mindset he is insisting on, or else will forever sabotage any form of political relations. I especially find it interesting how he not only has been insisting on this Brand's removal for years now, but has gone to the point of telling players to 'play a certain way' which he believes will get him the results he wants (This being "Celest tried harder, why dont you!").
Additionally, no, The Celest delegation tried several times with maeve and -got no where-, and then sought other means. Additionally, the brand was placed by Nifilhema, with the powers of Nil and Celestia and is basically the same type of brand that was once placed on Raziela with the same circumstances (That being the magics that only the one whom placed it can remove it).
Quite Frankly, for the all the years of suffering Raziela had to do under the brand, and then the cities had to suffer from the, quite frankly bugged and unfair advantages of the hai'gloh which saw them lose millions of powers, I find it completely warrants to have Maeve in the state she is and hopefully to continue to be so.
I'm not forcing Magnagora to do anything. They were absolutely free to decide to do what they did. However, strangely enough, choices have roleplay consequences.
In this case, Glomdoring tried with Magnagora and got nowhere. We then tried via other means. You know, exactly as your "Additionally, no" line goes.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Rofl @ gross misrepresentation of the hai'gloh. It amuses me how easily your opinions sway depending on which org you're in currently.
What's I'm seeing in all this is a clear story of Silvanus apparently working his rump off to try to get the Mark removed, and no matter what he does, it isn't enough unless it's actually done. He's really sort of screwed unless the admin take pity on him.
On the other hand, Celest has done roughly the same thing and Xenthos gives them a bye. What's the difference between the two? Has Xenthos seen Silvanus "not doing anything" at all? Can anyone really prove that Silvanus hasn't done everything he could?
In all the time I've played since the Mark was put on Maeve, I don't believe I've ever heard anything from a leader in Celest on plans to try and remove it. Ever. That's not to say people didn't try, but I've never heard about them trying. On the other hand, I've heard from quite a few people in Mag about trying to do it. I've also personally seen Xenthos work against Magnagora in various ways to try and find leverage to get them to "remove the brand", despite the fact that they had no real power to do so. I've never heard of him doing the same to Celest.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
What's I'm seeing in all this is a clear story of Silvanus apparently working his rump off to try to get the Mark removed, and no matter what he does, it isn't enough unless it's actually done. He's really sort of screwed unless the admin take pity on him.
On the other hand, Celest has done roughly the same thing and Xenthos gives them a bye. What's the difference between the two? Has Xenthos seen Silvanus "not doing anything" at all? Can anyone really prove that Silvanus hasn't done everything he could?
In all the time I've played since the Mark was put on Maeve, I don't believe I've ever heard anything from a leader in Celest on plans to try and remove it. Ever. That's not to say people didn't try, but I've never heard about them trying. On the other hand, I've heard from quite a few people in Mag about trying to do it. I've also personally seen Xenthos work against Magnagora in various ways to try and find leverage to get them to "remove the brand", despite the fact that they had no real power to do so. I've never heard of him doing the same to Celest.
The difference between the two here is that, as far as Glomdoring is concerned, he hasn't done a thing. Celest? They were very obviously trying. We had to go... keep an eye on them, regularly, in Faethorn. I've said multiple times in the past that it didn't matter whether or not it was actually removed, but the important part was working together and being seen to be trying.
However hard he's tried, whatever he's done has been entirely internal. I have indeed seen him doing nothing at all. It is very apparent that he hasn't done everything he could (because I guarantee you that Celina would be using it on the Court clan on a regular basis, if nothing else!). That's not to say that he's under any obligation to do so, of course. However, part of working on relations is actually... interacting. With no interaction, nothing's actually going anywhere.
Celest also had nothing to do with the Mark at all. They and Magnagora worked together for the Xion Initiative, but once it was completed Celest left. Everything that happened after that was Magnagora alone. They were given the choice to do what Nifilhema wanted. Celest's reward was getting the bracelet removed; Magnagora's was being given the option to put their mark on Maeve. Two separate things entirely.
Edit: Basically, he has been putting all his eggs in one basket, by going at the mark directly alone. If he succeeded? That would be a massive coup. But if he doesn't, then he's got nothing to show for it because nobody else knows he's doing a thing.
Just out of curiosity, what do you do when you see Magnagorans in Faethorn?
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Just out of curiosity, what do you do when you see Magnagorans in Faethorn?
Depends on whether they tell us ahead of time what they're doing there or not.
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EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
Good Lord, do you all hear yourselves? From what it looks like, Silvanus went about trying to get the brand removed in a logical way in accordance with appropriate RP. So what if no one saw it? And yes, from a character perspective, we can "know" that Silvanus did "nothing". But for crying out loud, at least acknowledge from a player perspective that he worked hard trying to oblige the demands to remove the brand, and nothing came from it. Acknowledge that the player worked hard in their own way, even though it led to jack squat.
Or stick to your stupid narrative that Celest did a bunch of work (which, really, they didn't) and Magnagora did nothing and use it to justify whatever.
Silvanus, thank you for going out of your way in secret to try to find a solution. I appreciate knowing that this is something you dedicated a lot of time to. Ev has no clue, many no other character has any clue. But player to player, thanks for trying.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
Good Lord, do you all hear yourselves? From what it looks like, Silvanus went about trying to get the brand removed in a logical way in accordance with appropriate RP. So what if no one saw it? And yes, from a character perspective, we can "know" that Silvanus did "nothing". But for crying out loud, at least acknowledge from a player perspective that he worked hard trying to oblige the demands to remove the brand, and nothing came from it. Acknowledge that the player worked hard in their own way, even though it led to jack squat.
Or stick to your stupid narrative that Celest did a bunch of work (which, really, they didn't) and Magnagora did nothing and use it to justify whatever.
Silvanus, thank you for going out of your way in secret to try to find a solution. I appreciate knowing that this is something you dedicated a lot of time to. Ev has no clue, many no other character has any clue. But player to player, thanks for trying.
I'm not sure what you're talking about, because I absolutely watched Celest trying for ages to get something to go somewhere. To say that Celest didn't is pretty absurd (or, to use your own words, a "stupid narrative"). They consistently tried to speak with Maeve, both forests, their own supernals until something stuck and they got the outcome they were looking for.
Yes, it's good to know that he has tried. However, in-character it makes no difference if nobody else knows. As you, yourself, acknowledge.
Edit: Basically, you're taking a discussion of the IC-actions (from my previous post, the ending is: "Edit: Basically, he has been putting all his eggs in one basket, by
going at the mark directly alone. If he succeeded? That would be a
massive coup. But if he doesn't, then he's got nothing to show for it
because nobody else knows he's doing a thing." <-- This is obviously a reference to the in-character results and actions. Of course you can take that and twist it around as if it's talking about OOC things instead, but it doesn't really make sense as part of the discussion. The current political situation is entirely based around the IC interaction between the two orgs, or the more realistically the lack thereof.
Which brings me back to the point that no matter how hard I tried, I am pretty sure this has Admin decision all over, and Magnagora is going to get the short end of the stick, as has been happening.
Either way, I'm through with it, whatever happens, will happen. It is quite clear as Ixion said, no matter what happens, nothing will be done until the Brand is removed, and that decision has quite clearly been shown to be out of Magnagoran hands.
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
Answers
I think some of you are misconstruing singular events or statements to fit some narrative of admin bias that doesn't actually exist. In fact, most admin err on the side of not even speaking up about anything political because inevitably someone comes to the forums to complain that we are all evil meddling people with some hidden agenda and as a group we only seek the ruin of <org name here>. I realize that as players, you do not have the benefit of seeing what happens behind the scenes, but outside of godly RP in our organizations, most of us spend time doing projects that help out orgs that are not the ones we patron, including the "enemy" org. I've build a decent amount of things for Gaudi and run a few events for them. Mag admins have done work for Hallifax. Serenwilde admins help out on stuff for Mag.
If there was an OOC admin initiative to support one org, Estarra or another administrator would just come out and say that there was. We aren't up to anything here, except to make the game a better experience for every player.
What if the god's rp is to be heavily interested in player politics and alliances (not that I'm saying any god is like this)? That, for example, Zvoltz was only interested in Hallifax being allies with Celest and no one else? Would he do everything he could to stop Halli from going against this belief?
I can't speak to the Glom situation personally, but @Xenthos has made it pretty clear that it wasn't a divine or administrative rift, and that the mark business could have been easily sidestepped without administrative help.
Seriously, I object pretty loudly and strenuously when I feel that something was executed poorly, or there was some kind of misstep. At least during my time playing, I've never known there to be an obvious political administrative push, even if the gods in question have political agendas or stances ic.
The worst that can be said is that certain events seem to present hurdles to certain orgs pairing with certain others, but that's been a fact since day 1:there are compelling reasons for and against any particular union.
Perception is a powerful tool, and it has very easily felt like we've been getting screwed without lube.
It's not like this was an arc 10 years in the making. At IronCon, when I asked Estarra about it, she seemed absolutely surprised that anyone even cared. I certainly didn't get the sense that there was any plan in place for it, it was simply where that event had gone / ended. The only reason it's being discussed now is RL years of dedicated RP efforts by Glomdoring (and Serenwilde) and Someone came up with what they feel is a good storyline about it. We have no idea what it is, but this is how player-driven RP events work. Glomdoring being released, Raziela's bracelet being removed, even the original historical families, are all about players focusing on something for a great deal of time until an Admin sees it and decides to run with it when it was not In The Works to begin with.
In this case, what would have had the greatest chance of success would have been Magnagora and Glomdoring working together. Nihilists and Shadowdancers speaking with Maeve (and they would have had to do so repeatedly, it could have been part of an overarching central point to an agreement / treaty between the organizations, much as certain ceremonies / festivals are used IRL). It would definitely have been a strong bonding point; my understanding is that Magnagora wasn't aware that Nifilhema was going to do the mark in the first place, and even if they were it wouldn't have been too difficult to convince Glomdoring that they weren't (by putting effort into having it removed).
At least, that's how I see it; in fact, that is kind of what I was even hoping for at the time (I as a person am not actually as hateful towards Magnagora as a whole as one might think, though there are certain elements in Magnagora whom I have a great distaste for I do actually understand that there's a larger-- and much more pleasant to deal with-- base of players there). There was a great opportunity for us to actually have a bonding experience and work together for a common goal (which would have easily worked to sweep away the bad history / blood between the organizations, as well).
Instead we had an uneasy standoffish relationship, and it just didn't work out well for either side in the end.
I'm just confused by it being impossible
to talk with Seren because Lisaera said no once. That's manifestly not true.
When Mag and Glom had a NAP, Mags still were not allowed in. Even before then, there's a many RL year history of non-enemied Mags not being allowed free travel.
Nice try though.
Additionally, if Silvanus had somehow gotten the mark removed behind the scenes, there would have been one heck of a mother flubbing uproar in Mag about it. He is already swimming in enough drama these days as is.
Celest had sent several delegations to Maeve about the brand on Raziela, and were, naturally, rejected each time. The last time they were rejected, they began to consider if there was any other way to get it removed, and then were approached with A DIFFERENT AVENUE to try and get the brand removed, a far more darker alternative. Japhiel informed them that the only being likely to have a possible solution, would be the Queen of bondage and torture herself, Nifilhema, which is frankly a very logical outlook.
This put Celest in a very difficult position, of which they can keep going back to Maeve time and again in the hope that she will have a change of heart (which maybe had a 0.1% chance of working), or to go to their arch-nemesis and ask for their help. Then, with the assistance of Celest, Nifilhema did indeed remove the brand on Raziela (by having Maeve in her control of course), and then went about corrupting faethorn. Frankly it was a long time coming after the drama of hai'gloh.
Why do I bring this story up? Because from what I am seeing, Glomdoring (Xenthos specifically) has been moaning and berating about going to Nifilhema and repeatedly doing the same request of removing the brand, which frankly Nifi wont give 2 shits about. If anything she may twist the brand around and laugh as maeve squirms. How about looking for other possible solutions? I actually have one in mind, but then I would be helping the cause now wouldnt I?
And, no, the Celest "delegation" is not being misrepresented whatsoever. In fact, it is pretty much an exact reflection of what is going on now. This one has just taken a great deal more time. The delegations and attempts were ignored, so they kept RPing and trying until a separate alternative was found that did not involve the organization(s) associated with the aggressor (who were not interested in addressing it themselves). In this case, that seems to be exactly what Lisaera has been telling Silvanus (so far at least, there's nothing to say that whatever they try doesn't work out the first time and Magnagora is given the opportunity to either help or oppose).
Additionally, no, The Celest delegation tried several times with maeve and -got no where-, and then sought other means. Additionally, the brand was placed by Nifilhema, with the powers of Nil and Celestia and is basically the same type of brand that was once placed on Raziela with the same circumstances (That being the magics that only the one whom placed it can remove it).
Quite Frankly, for the all the years of suffering Raziela had to do under the brand, and then the cities had to suffer from the, quite frankly bugged and unfair advantages of the hai'gloh which saw them lose millions of powers, I find it completely warrants to have Maeve in the state she is and hopefully to continue to be so.
P.S: If you think just some interaction with maeve and fancy event magic will get the brand removed, you're quite delusional.
In this case, Glomdoring tried with Magnagora and got nowhere. We then tried via other means. You know, exactly as your "Additionally, no" line goes.
On the other hand, Celest has done roughly the same thing and Xenthos gives them a bye. What's the difference between the two? Has Xenthos seen Silvanus "not doing anything" at all? Can anyone really prove that Silvanus hasn't done everything he could?
In all the time I've played since the Mark was put on Maeve, I don't believe I've ever heard anything from a leader in Celest on plans to try and remove it. Ever. That's not to say people didn't try, but I've never heard about them trying. On the other hand, I've heard from quite a few people in Mag about trying to do it. I've also personally seen Xenthos work against Magnagora in various ways to try and find leverage to get them to "remove the brand", despite the fact that they had no real power to do so. I've never heard of him doing the same to Celest.
However hard he's tried, whatever he's done has been entirely internal. I have indeed seen him doing nothing at all. It is very apparent that he hasn't done everything he could (because I guarantee you that Celina would be using it on the Court clan on a regular basis, if nothing else!). That's not to say that he's under any obligation to do so, of course. However, part of working on relations is actually... interacting. With no interaction, nothing's actually going anywhere.
Celest also had nothing to do with the Mark at all. They and Magnagora worked together for the Xion Initiative, but once it was completed Celest left. Everything that happened after that was Magnagora alone. They were given the choice to do what Nifilhema wanted. Celest's reward was getting the bracelet removed; Magnagora's was being given the option to put their mark on Maeve. Two separate things entirely.
Edit: Basically, he has been putting all his eggs in one basket, by going at the mark directly alone. If he succeeded? That would be a massive coup. But if he doesn't, then he's got nothing to show for it because nobody else knows he's doing a thing.
Or stick to your stupid narrative that Celest did a bunch of work (which, really, they didn't) and Magnagora did nothing and use it to justify whatever.
Silvanus, thank you for going out of your way in secret to try to find a solution. I appreciate knowing that this is something you dedicated a lot of time to. Ev has no clue, many no other character has any clue. But player to player, thanks for trying.
Yes, it's good to know that he has tried. However, in-character it makes no difference if nobody else knows. As you, yourself, acknowledge.
Edit: Basically, you're taking a discussion of the IC-actions (from my previous post, the ending is: "Edit: Basically, he has been putting all his eggs in one basket, by going at the mark directly alone. If he succeeded? That would be a massive coup. But if he doesn't, then he's got nothing to show for it because nobody else knows he's doing a thing." <-- This is obviously a reference to the in-character results and actions. Of course you can take that and twist it around as if it's talking about OOC things instead, but it doesn't really make sense as part of the discussion. The current political situation is entirely based around the IC interaction between the two orgs, or the more realistically the lack thereof.