@Darvellan for saying hello and making my night by doing so. Was legit nervous/scared since the things I've been hearing outside my house have been... violent, given the ruling that was given in the US today (no, I don't live there), but somehow, that little sprinkle of RP with Darvellan calmed me enough to feel ready for bed.
Many thanks to @Elanorwen who gave me a script for Mudlet that restores the one bit of Nexus functionality I was going to miss most. And for digging up Morbo's aetherspace package so I could learn some Mudlet tricks by comparing it with my Nexus scripts (which I'm chuffed to discover functioned much the same, right down to the autopiloting option). I even managed to make a gliding/steering toggle that works with number pad input. @-)
Raves for people who can separate themselves from their character. I'm with Riluna, I love to rp some good drama. But if it is driving you to complain (a lot) OOCly at people to leave you alone etc...you're too close and you probably need to take a break and remember that it's fiction, and fiction without some conflict gets real boring. Most of us have been in that boat at some point. Deep breaths.
This is a little late but It's not a case of being unable to seperate self from fiction. I am able to do that, very well thank you very much.
As far as I can tell, it is the angst filled flailing of some twit who decided to use me as a convenient target ...because I'm just there. The Hate came out of nowhere for no reason, as far as I can tell. Conflict RP, is more or less expected and consensual. In this case, I don't want it, I don't need it and most certainly didn't ask for it.
I.e raid the fire elemental plane, get caught and expect to get stomped. Insult a magnagorean when you're a celestian - expect to get stomped. Fair poorly in the elections, expect to not be liked for a while (or something). Voice an unpopular opinion in the wrong place and expect to get stomped and ostracized.
This doesn't even fall under "protecting your own interests" because I make sure that I threaten no interest. The work I put into the shofangi, is effectively destroyed. I can live with that. I can put up with "xeria's we don't like you. BOO! You moved to the city". I can live with that too. What I will not put up with, is some idiot using me to get their fill of drama, by deliberately misunderstanding everything I say and twisting the meaning of my words. That's not even RP or story telling. That's like shitting in someone's living room, walking away and then denying the whole thing. Then running around convincing everyone else that I am responsible for the deed.
I'm sorry, but twisting words, lying, deliberately misunderstanding words and vendetta are all perfectly valid and perfectly "consensual" venues of conflict - for us as RPers. In terms of our characters, no conflict is ever "consensual" - the word conflict literally means an inability to understand each other's values to the point where it leads to a breakdown in communications, negotiations and finally, relations. To use your examples, a raider of elemental fire will not "want" to get hunted down for his actions either - his player might have raided just for the conflict, but the character raided for a more fundamental disagreement with his enemies. Everyone wants to be friends, basically, but only if all their friends subscribe to their set of values.
As RPers, it's important to separate ourselves as players from our characters, not to separate types of conflict into "I want this type of conflict but not that type of conflict". How Xeria the character deals with being backstabbed or lied about, or getting reputation-assassinated are ALL valid conflict avenues. If the opposing player is out to attack you as a player, that's harrassment. But when the opposing player is playing a character that is attacking your character, that is RP. The same action done to different targets means very different things. You can't group all kinds of deception, character-assassinations, backstabbings and private vendettas against your character as "shitting in someone's living room", and then turn around and say, "oh, but insulting someone and getting attacked for it is fine".
If you have a problem with someone having a vendetta against you, sure, issue it to get the harrassment stopped or punished. However, a vendetta against your character is something we as roleplayers in an RP-enforced (are we still classified under RP-"encouraged"?) MUD have to face. If you're unsure if the person you're interacting with is harrassing you or not, you could always ask. If they do try to reach out to you as a player and make an effort to let you know it's not personal, then there is absolutely zero reason to have that kind of action grouped as some kind of taboo. It is not.
Its fine if you want to cherry pick what kinds of "conflict" you partake in. No one really cares. But if you start getting angry at the opposing player for trying to RP and start labelling certain kinds of conflict-RP as "angst filled flailing of some twit", then... you definitely should take a break, because you're most definitely not "separating self from fiction".
By the way, Riluna is neither a twit nor angst filled.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
@Lerad This conflict has absolutely nothing to do with the kind of conflict you're talking about. This is isn't a conflict over a clash of values and so on.
That's one.
two: I am simply stating that I will not deal with petty idiocy any longer. The kind that deliberately twists and misrepresents in the pettiest way, for no good reason, even under the guise of "Rpees". If you wish to take that as "labeling all some kinds of rp" as "angst filled". That's you. Not me. Not my issue. We could play a whole 'nother pointless word game around this, but I'd prefer not to.
The conflict you're talking about, is built into the game. That's consensual. You as a player don't want to fight and make enemies, but its' bound to happen. By playing you agree to this kind of conflict in your game. I'm not referring to this type of Rp conflict. I'm talking about the "he said, she said" OOC/IC shenanigans.
three: @Riluna this entire rant really isn't about you. you're just the straw that broke the camel's back.
Four: character assasinations that make flaming sense (like what's going on in the shofangi right now, about my work) I can accept. This one makes no flaming sense. That is why I'm so angry. I'm getting drama for the stupidest of reasons that make no sense within the context of the game.
Why are you so OOCly upset about what some computer text nerds are saying about you? Who cares?
I'm willing to bet that your forum outbursts of angst and vitriol cause them to do whatever drama it is, even more so because your reactions are what they are gunning for. They're looking for your sweet buttery tears and you're just falling right into their hands
Your posts aren't even really making sense at this point. It's really hard to see that you're separating IC from OOC especially when you are saying you can't handle more conflict RP from @Riluna due to too much OOC drama (I don't even know if that's right, it's all a big smudge of reasonings)
Chill out bud, this kind of angst isn't worthwhile, you need to take a step back, take a deep breath and let it roll off you.
... I'm talking about the "he said, she said" OOC/IC shenanigans.
...
There is a clear separation between the two. "he said, she said" shenanigans that take place IC even if it is "for no reason", are perfectly fine as RP avenues of conflict. Yes, shenanigans where a character takes another character's words and simply twist it around because he doesn't like the hair they are wearing is perfectly fine as an RP conflict. And no, this isn't some kind of smokescreen used to hand-wave away some kind of "petty idiocy". (As a slight disgression, "idiocy", when RP'd well, is perfectly valid too. We've had our fair share of characters who were RP'd as less than smart, abrasive, mute, deaf even, and all shades inbetween, and they certainly are perfectly fine examples of great RP.) Being venomous "for no reason" is also perfectly fine... when IC.
When it's OOC, then yes, it can become so intrusive as to be harrassment, and at the point you as a player feel it is so, you certainly have the option of taking action against it. If it's OOC.
You can't group both types together and say "it's all bad, it's all petty, it's all idiotic" etc. Because there's a difference when it is done targeted at a player, and when it is done targeted at a character.
By playing in Lusternia, you also agree to all kinds of conflict, not just PK conflict, and this is also including backstabbings or just personal vendettas for no ostensible reason - that's the entire way the politics system is created. If you don't want to take part in it, that's fine, but it's in no way "petty idiocy". As long as it is IC. Also, note that "as a player", none of us really makes any enemies - our characters do. Again, there is a difference. I have nothing against the people I fight against on a regular basis (not that I fight much nowadays, unfortunately). Lerad rarely insults people, but when he does, what is said is not from me as a player, and most definitely it is not aimed at another player. The idea that players "make enemies" is inherently flawed anyway. I can't make an enemy out of someone I haven't even the slightest idea what they look like.
I've not accused you of doing anything you've not done. As it is you certainly have labelled certain actions as "angst filled drama". And I'm disputing that. The actions that have been described in your posts (and Riluna's, though mostly yours) are certainly not as clearly pigeon-holed into such a label as you have done. The distinction is in the intention, as I've been repeating like a broken record: if it's aimed at the OOC player, it can be so intrusive as to be harrassment, and then, yes, actions should be taken etc... but if it's aimed at the IC character, even if it is "for no reason", it's a perfectly valid form of conflict RP. I don't even know if the people who have attacked Xeria in that way were aiming at you as a player or not, and if they were, you are certainly not wrong to be outraged. But the chances are, most people playing this game who actually take the effort to RP probably feel something similar to what Riluna is feeling - they are here for some good fun, and they did what they did (namely, attack your character) because they felt it would be fun for you (as a player) as well. If you're not feeling the fun from it, tell them so, take a break, or whatever else you need to do to get your fun back.
Because such actions aren't going anywhere. (As long as they are IC.)
You know, this convo would really benefit from two things: A log of said angsty idiocy, and its own thread.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Yay for learning more lore! Been reading my butt off and having a blast trying to memorize all this stuff.
EDIT: Thank you so very much, @Estarra! All this delicious reading should keep me occupied for a while! You've created a wonderful, rich world! Thanks to everyone else too who wrote all these fantastic scholarly books!
I occasionally like to pretend that I'm replanting all of these herbs to attract bees, and might one day form an alliance with the bees and take over the Basin. Then we could have a wonderful tea party with plenty of honey and the best tea blends.
Lerad said: If you're not feeling the fun from it, tell them so, take a break, or whatever else you need to do to get your fun back.
This is not good advice. The reasoning provided (IC vendettas shouldn't bother you OOC) is wrong. And, while I'm not surprised to see someone making this argument, I am disappointed: It shows a profound lack of empathy for you to belittle Xeria's emotional reaction to this. You can't just judge roleplay by whether it is realistic. It has to be good for the game and the community as well.
IC/OOC seperation is a myth. Or, at least it is as far as a player's emotions are concerned. You can't get involved in a character's persona without getting involved emotionally with the character and leaving yourself open to being hurt emotionally by anything that would hurt your character's emotions. It's a choice you have to make as a player: Are you here to play your character or to play a game? Only the second one is going to be any fun, whatever some romanticized myth of "true roleplaying" tells you otherwise.
There is a reason why actors have elaborate choreography and practice at selling blows when performing fight scenes. Knowing what will happen and knowing to act it out as it happens makes the end result convincing without anyone actually getting hurt. As a community, we do not do this. Perhaps even cannot do this. The only way to make a vicious argument in character feel true is to actually be vicious. To use a metaphor, if a realistic character is a mask that you wear, it isn't the sort of mask that will stop a punch to the face from giving you a bloody nose underneath. You can only get that sort of protection by sacrificing realism somewhere, either in your character or in their struggles.
Did you ever wonder why roleplay intense games have such a high suicide rate in their playerbases? This is why. Because, as a community, we don't hold back, even when we should. We'd rather be true to our character than kind to our peers. And when someone says "this is too stressful, I can't deal" we either mock their feelings or tell them to quit the game.
I'm raving because I'm handing off the library for the second time. Hopefully this one sticks!
I'm also raving for a statistic taken from LIBRARIES.I think it's a good legacy for my hopefully permanent retirement from librarianing.
********************The Library of Universal Knowledge********************* Recent Book Rating: 2518 - Book Count: 115
*******************The Archives of Illuminated Mysteries******************* Total Book Rating: 3264 - Book Count: 115
Hallifax has as many recent books as Gaudiguch has total books. Sure, Gaudiguch has more points (I think from prestige wins more than length, although I'd have to do way too much counting to be sure) but even being equal on volume counts is pretty nifty.
Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
I'll be honest, I don't really know what's happening between Riluna and Xeria. I can't tell what the issue is from these posts, but I think whatever it is, Xeria the player is taking it too personally.
I can promise you that while taking things personally isn't an uncommon occurrence, and it's not always unhealthy, it can be. I can't count how many times I've snapped at my kids for interrupting me while my current org is being raided, or times I've left work early because something is going down ingame and I can't stand not being able to be part of it. No matter how you handle things, you -have- to be able to step back, take a break, and understand that while your emotions matter and they're healthy to feel, you can't let it ruin your self esteem or make you treat other people badly because of it. Hell, I recently unfriended 90% of the admin on Facebook lately because I was misinformed and told that new ephs were advised to unfriend me. A lot of these people were my friends, or just people I tended to like chatting with about IRL things, and I alienated some people because of misinformation and quite frankly, butthurt.
At the end of the day, Lusternia is just a game no matter how much money, emotions, and hard work we've invested into it.
TL;DR: Your mental wellbeing is important. Take any steps you need to keep things from harming it.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
I would totally welcome a new thread, since this conversation is way, way off from the initial rave now.
Briefly, @Iytha, and not with the attention your points deserve, I agree that emotional investment is absolutely necessary simply to enjoy the game. But emotional investment is NOT mutually exclusive with player/character separation. Your character can be completely passionate about something you truly don't give a damn about, and vice versa. It gets a lot more complicated than that.
Lerad's advice was actually quite fine. Ultimately, the goal here for all of us should be fun. If a game is causing you that much pain, it's very simply not a game for you anymore. Taking a step back to take a breath, to take your bearings (maybe even find out where things went wrong?) is actually very healthy. If it's not fun, continuing to log in for the sake of habit, when it might actually be harming your emotional well-being is not healthy at all.
I don't think anyone is belittling or mocking Xeria. Not at all. I've been there, too, and at the time, exactly what I needed was a small break. Sometimes we just get a little too invested. Nobody is telling her to leave forever because she can't handle something. Just to stop and take a breath.
Secondly, I have no idea where this came from:
Did you ever wonder why roleplay intense games have such a high suicide rate in their playerbases?
I'd like to throw out a thanks to @Kurut for helping me out with my Collegiate stuff. It was really frustrating getting hit with Stupidity, finding out that the listed cure doesn't work, looking for the actual cure to find out no shops in the city sell it, all the while your character is falling asleep, yelling and eating random things. I was actually about to just stop playing Lusternia at that point, but Kurut to the rescue!
This rave is for @Daganev, for putting up with angry Kurut's crap and not losing his cool. Much
I occasionally like to pretend that I'm replanting all of these herbs to attract bees, and might one day form an alliance with the bees and take over the Basin. Then we could have a wonderful tea party with plenty of honey and the best tea blends.
3
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Whoa, where did suicide come from? There're plenty of points I want to rebut, but eh, I've derailed raves enough. I'll just say one thing: While I certainly don't rate myself very high on the empathy scale, I also most definitely did not belittle Xeria's emotional response. If you actually read my post, I even stated that she has every right to be outraged... when certain specific situations happen. Sure, we might disagree on when or what circumstances constitute those "specific situations", but in no where did I say her emotions was to be disregarded, or was somehow bad. I simply defended certain RP actions from being broadly labelled as unacceptable when there is a lot more nuance to it.
4
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
You're going to hate me, but I didn't keep any logs this time .
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
I have no idea how @Everiine puts up with Selenity, but I love him for it all the same. The RP with you is great dude. Thank you for letting my character be herself (and for letting me not RP a happy-go-lucky char constantly). You are awesome.
God Blogs, and the personal observation that the average suicide rate in the US has remained steady at around 12 per 100,000 for the last decade. If we got together a thousand MUDs the size of Lusternia and combined their statistics, we should expect to see, on average, just one suicide related death in the entire collection over the past decade. Lusternia, all by itself, discounting the entire rest of the MUD community, has had at least two.
Even if nobody in this thread is considering it, it's still an issue. And I think my broader point of "Maybe it should become a community norm to back off when someone says OOC that they're feeling stressed out." is a good one. We can't rely on the person who is stressed to make rational choices about whether they need a break: the whole reason they might need a break in the first place is that emotional stress makes people do things they regret later.
Twenty-four bits of silvery essence are absorbed into the bark of the Moonhart Mother Tree. You have received the Flame of Glinshari ikon as a quest reward!
48811 Serenwild legendary prop 1x the Flame of Glinshari
Comments
Dawww sexy pirate god guy is the bomb
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
As far as I can tell, it is the angst filled flailing of some twit who decided to use me as a convenient target ...because I'm just there. The Hate came out of nowhere for no reason, as far as I can tell. Conflict RP, is more or less expected and consensual. In this case, I don't want it, I don't need it and most certainly didn't ask for it.
Hrmph.
@Rilunathis isn't aimed at you. I should have made it clear from the start. Sorry. OOC I still love you, but don't desire any more conflict RP
As RPers, it's important to separate ourselves as players from our characters, not to separate types of conflict into "I want this type of conflict but not that type of conflict". How Xeria the character deals with being backstabbed or lied about, or getting reputation-assassinated are ALL valid conflict avenues. If the opposing player is out to attack you as a player, that's harrassment. But when the opposing player is playing a character that is attacking your character, that is RP. The same action done to different targets means very different things. You can't group all kinds of deception, character-assassinations, backstabbings and private vendettas against your character as "shitting in someone's living room", and then turn around and say, "oh, but insulting someone and getting attacked for it is fine".
If you have a problem with someone having a vendetta against you, sure, issue it to get the harrassment stopped or punished. However, a vendetta against your character is something we as roleplayers in an RP-enforced (are we still classified under RP-"encouraged"?) MUD have to face. If you're unsure if the person you're interacting with is harrassing you or not, you could always ask. If they do try to reach out to you as a player and make an effort to let you know it's not personal, then there is absolutely zero reason to have that kind of action grouped as some kind of taboo. It is not.
Its fine if you want to cherry pick what kinds of "conflict" you partake in. No one really cares. But if you start getting angry at the opposing player for trying to RP and start labelling certain kinds of conflict-RP as "angst filled flailing of some twit", then... you definitely should take a break, because you're most definitely not "separating self from fiction".
The conflict you're talking about, is built into the game. That's consensual. You as a player don't want to fight and make enemies, but its' bound to happen. By playing you agree to this kind of conflict in your game. I'm not referring to this type of Rp conflict. I'm talking about the "he said, she said" OOC/IC shenanigans.
When it's OOC, then yes, it can become so intrusive as to be harrassment, and at the point you as a player feel it is so, you certainly have the option of taking action against it. If it's OOC.
You can't group both types together and say "it's all bad, it's all petty, it's all idiotic" etc. Because there's a difference when it is done targeted at a player, and when it is done targeted at a character.
By playing in Lusternia, you also agree to all kinds of conflict, not just PK conflict, and this is also including backstabbings or just personal vendettas for no ostensible reason - that's the entire way the politics system is created. If you don't want to take part in it, that's fine, but it's in no way "petty idiocy". As long as it is IC. Also, note that "as a player", none of us really makes any enemies - our characters do. Again, there is a difference. I have nothing against the people I fight against on a regular basis (not that I fight much nowadays, unfortunately). Lerad rarely insults people, but when he does, what is said is not from me as a player, and most definitely it is not aimed at another player. The idea that players "make enemies" is inherently flawed anyway. I can't make an enemy out of someone I haven't even the slightest idea what they look like.
I've not accused you of doing anything you've not done. As it is you certainly have labelled certain actions as "angst filled drama". And I'm disputing that. The actions that have been described in your posts (and Riluna's, though mostly yours) are certainly not as clearly pigeon-holed into such a label as you have done. The distinction is in the intention, as I've been repeating like a broken record: if it's aimed at the OOC player, it can be so intrusive as to be harrassment, and then, yes, actions should be taken etc... but if it's aimed at the IC character, even if it is "for no reason", it's a perfectly valid form of conflict RP. I don't even know if the people who have attacked Xeria in that way were aiming at you as a player or not, and if they were, you are certainly not wrong to be outraged. But the chances are, most people playing this game who actually take the effort to RP probably feel something similar to what Riluna is feeling - they are here for some good fun, and they did what they did (namely, attack your character) because they felt it would be fun for you (as a player) as well. If you're not feeling the fun from it, tell them so, take a break, or whatever else you need to do to get your fun back.
Because such actions aren't going anywhere. (As long as they are IC.)
IC/OOC seperation is a myth. Or, at least it is as far as a player's emotions are concerned. You can't get involved in a character's persona without getting involved emotionally with the character and leaving yourself open to being hurt emotionally by anything that would hurt your character's emotions. It's a choice you have to make as a player: Are you here to play your character or to play a game? Only the second one is going to be any fun, whatever some romanticized myth of "true roleplaying" tells you otherwise.
There is a reason why actors have elaborate choreography and practice at selling blows when performing fight scenes. Knowing what will happen and knowing to act it out as it happens makes the end result convincing without anyone actually getting hurt. As a community, we do not do this. Perhaps even cannot do this. The only way to make a vicious argument in character feel true is to actually be vicious. To use a metaphor, if a realistic character is a mask that you wear, it isn't the sort of mask that will stop a punch to the face from giving you a bloody nose underneath. You can only get that sort of protection by sacrificing realism somewhere, either in your character or in their struggles.
Did you ever wonder why roleplay intense games have such a high suicide rate in their playerbases? This is why. Because, as a community, we don't hold back, even when we should. We'd rather be true to our character than kind to our peers. And when someone says "this is too stressful, I can't deal" we either mock their feelings or tell them to quit the game.
I'm raving because I'm handing off the library for the second time. Hopefully this one sticks!
I'm also raving for a statistic taken from LIBRARIES.I think it's a good legacy for my hopefully permanent retirement from librarianing.
********************The Library of Universal Knowledge*********************
Recent Book Rating: 2518 - Book Count: 115
*******************The Archives of Illuminated Mysteries*******************
Total Book Rating: 3264 - Book Count: 115
Hallifax has as many recent books as Gaudiguch has total books. Sure, Gaudiguch has more points (I think from prestige wins more than length, although I'd have to do way too much counting to be sure) but even being equal on volume counts is pretty nifty.
I can promise you that while taking things personally isn't an uncommon occurrence, and it's not always unhealthy, it can be. I can't count how many times I've snapped at my kids for interrupting me while my current org is being raided, or times I've left work early because something is going down ingame and I can't stand not being able to be part of it. No matter how you handle things, you -have- to be able to step back, take a break, and understand that while your emotions matter and they're healthy to feel, you can't let it ruin your self esteem or make you treat other people badly because of it. Hell, I recently unfriended 90% of the admin on Facebook lately because I was misinformed and told that new ephs were advised to unfriend me. A lot of these people were my friends, or just people I tended to like chatting with about IRL things, and I alienated some people because of misinformation and quite frankly, butthurt.
At the end of the day, Lusternia is just a game no matter how much money, emotions, and hard work we've invested into it.
TL;DR: Your mental wellbeing is important. Take any steps you need to keep things from harming it.
(no, really. We want logs)
Even if nobody in this thread is considering it, it's still an issue. And I think my broader point of "Maybe it should become a community norm to back off when someone says OOC that they're feeling stressed out." is a good one. We can't rely on the person who is stressed to make rational choices about whether they need a break: the whole reason they might need a break in the first place is that emotional stress makes people do things they regret later.
Mother Tree.
You have received the Flame of Glinshari ikon as a quest reward!