As a guy who's been forced to be a racehat tae'dae ever since he started playing his character seriously (ty @Kio!) I welcome the change. Granted, sure, illithoid/something else might be a bit better for an acro munk, but I won't feel like I'm penalized if I want to not wear the race hat. Granted, still keeping mine, for those days when I need to be something else, but having the option to not have to tell tae'dae who try to be something like a Shadowdancer that they're sol, or for making my orclach bard actually be a thing, is awesome.
Yes, this is the benefit of the system in general, but I'm looking at things past that point. After the euphoria of having every race be viable for every class wears off. I'm asking myself, what do these specific perks tell us about the race, and how does it impact the stereotypes.
If the artifacts are important in regards to balancing the demigod powers, then I think its important for us to know what those artifacts might be doing, to be able to figure out the demi powers.
I think there is a hint for the igasho for example, that the artifact might make carry not have a balance cost, but that all it would do, or an additional effect?
Also, is there a table somewhere which shows how common different damage types are, and how many sources there are to increase resistance against them?
Going over feedback from the last couple of days, addressing some of the weaker traits, balancing out a couple of others and fixing some of the parities to split damage.
We'll be going ahead with the four level system with a fifth unlocked by artifact, adding an extra tier leans itself to power creep, and racial homogenisation, there's only so many traits and abilities you can give out before everyone starts to feel the same.
While some players may feel dismayed that they've lost certain advantages, it should be compensated by a loss of debilitating vulnerabilities. While certain "master races" may feel like they've been nerfed, in that they no longer hold the edge over others, the general goal is that no matter what race you pick, you'll feel you're able to partake fairly in all aspects of Lusternia.
This is looking to be submitted and overlooked by Estarra for implementation soon, so any final suggestions would be appreciated quickly. At this point I'm looking for actual numbers, or modifications to perks, as opposed to voicing a dislike for something.
General changes.
All org races have had their regenerations moved to tier 3, this is a standard 1/10 health/mana regeneration when in their org's environmental effect.
All org races have had their damage buff split into pairs of 1/4 to two different sources.
Aslaran.
Health regeneration works in all natural areas, indoors and outdoors.
PURSUIT no longer has a ten second window of opportunity. Instead when it fires, the Aslaran cannot use this ability for 5 seconds.
Dracnari
Tier 1 reworked. Now grants 1/4 psychic resistance and BREATHE FIRE. This can melt icewalls at the same balance speed as an ignite enchant.
Tier 5 trait: Breath of Dracnoris. BREATHE FIRE now also burns away briar and thorn walls as well as its current effect, balance speed increased. Breath of Dracnoris grants an automatic passive lighting of pipes, and when attacking another player has a % chance to breathe fire at the target, causing fire damage and inflicting them with ablaze.
Elfen
Tier 1 changed to 2/4 magical resistance
One with Nature now grants 6/10 health/mana/ego regeneration in all natural or forested environments.
Faeling
Tier 1 changed to 2/4 divinus resistance.
Faeling who are able to FLY by personal means (read: No beast riding) then high winds will no longer knock them out of the sky, instead stunning them for two seconds.
One with nature changed as per Elfen notes.
Fink
Tier 3 changed. All PERFORMANCES in dramatics have an increased effect.
Igasho
Carry has a 10 second cooldown.
Illithoid
Tier 2 changed to 2/4 excorable resistance.
Loboshigaru
Enhanced regeneration increased to 8/10 health regeneration plus 2/10 to mana and ego.
Lucidian
Supercharged now increases the Lucidian's base maximum reserves to 125%
Merian
Tier 1 changed to 2/4 cold resistance.
Tier 2 adjusted. Merians who have DIVE in environment gain reduced balance time on SWIM while underwater.
Mugwump
Tier 2 adjusted. Mugwumps who have DIVE in environment gain reduced balance time on SWIM while underwater.
Trill
Trill who are able to FLY by personal means (read: No beast riding) then high winds will no longer knock them out of the sky, instead stunning them for two seconds.
Viscanti
Tier 2 now grants 2/4 poison resist.
BREATHE GAS reworked. Now grants an immunity to poison gas, when attacking other players the Viscanti has a % chance to breathe gas at their target, causing poison damage and afflicting the victim with asthma.
Wildewood
Tier 2 reworked. Wildewood trees are able to change their PERSPECTIVE between the ground and tree elevations. They are also able to perceive anyone entering, leaving and speaking on both the ground and tree elevations while on either. Also gain the BARKTOUCH attack.
Wyrdenwood
See Wildewood.
As stated this is not the finalised proposal, however this will be the last chance to make modifications before it's submitted for review by Estarra. Please be clear and detailed with any proposed amendments.
For dracnari, can thier their level one ability also allow then to (actively) light pipes? It would be sad if they lost that ability IMO.
I still like my scent idea for finks better, but I'll accept the performance one. Especially in light of certain things revealed to me about Fininkora.
EDIT: Spreadsheet says viscanti poison breath deals fire damage. Hehe.
Whoa, Breath of Dracnoris sounds insane, passive additional damage and ablaze on targets? Fast wall burning and free artifact pipes (?) is plenty effect, especially when compared to regens - even stronger ones than before.
Making the basic properties of Wyrden/Wildewoods take up an entire slot is a raw deal for those (forced) races. Perspective is not a buff, it's what makes them remotely fair to use with the loss of CLIMB from Monkey Totem (which they all have and can't use). Barktouch can go away, with the death of damage typing all it will do is Nature Curse with a different flavour text. Neither of these things are equitable with any of the other utility or dmp racial effects. The -wood races should get three bonuses like everyone else :C.
Whoa, Breath of Dracnoris sounds insane, passive additional damage and ablaze on targets? Fast wall burning and free artifact pipes (?) is plenty effect, especially when compared to regens - even stronger ones than before.
Making the basic properties of Wyrden/Wildewoods take up an entire slot is a raw deal for those (forced) races. Perspective is not a buff, it's what makes them remotely fair to use with the loss of CLIMB from Monkey Totem (which they all have and can't use). Barktouch can go away, with the death of damage typing all it will do is Nature Curse with a different flavour text. Neither of these things are equitable with any of the other utility or dmp racial effects. The -wood races should get three bonuses like everyone else :C.
What Enyalida said regarding Breath of Dracnoris. It should be noted that the Viscanti passive asthma is also a bit overboard. In general, can we try to steer clear of any kind of passive afflicting due to racial choices? Especially locking afflictions like asthma that would allow a lucky aeon tarot fling to immediately apply asthma as well?
EDIT: Lucidian + trill level 50 ability gives a bonus to electrical/asphyx damage for aeromancers and aerochems, but aeromancers do not deal any asphyx damage. As such, this is not comparable to every other mage org spec.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
In addition to supercharged, someone else's idea - Another idea: Give lucidians access to the Ascendant, Descendant, ImumCoeli and MediumCoeli Astrology buffs. For astrologers, these would be increased in power.
Suggest let viscanti poison breath asthma be shruggable.
Bearhug is still silly, how about some weather ignorance, x/10 health buff or more influencing prowess?
I preferred the old wildewood/wyrdenwood demiperks. They didn't seem imbalanced to me.
Adding a 5th tier pre-artifacts does NOT create power creep, nor does it make every race the same anymore than the current abilities make every race the same. It splits the Demi powers into two, allowing races to have their default requirements that make them unique at level 1.
I liked the idea to have spec bonuses be in addition to a regular level 50 racial bonus, instead of instead of one. What happened to that?
The -wood demiperks have changed? They lost some (admittedly redundant) damage resistances (see below for why I say this) on the 25 slot to gain the Perspective ability, without which they can't climb into trees at all. This is a perk in that it is very hard to get a -wood down out of the trees when they're up there.... but perspective is NOT a free action, unlike CLIMB UP | CLING which also blocks the majority of knocking down attacks, and allows for way better tactical mobility - not to mention that you can notice when you're in the room of the -wood but on the wrong elevation, from their branches/trunk. Basically, it's a "perk" that comes pre-packaged with its own downsides: there shouldn't be a need to additionally eat up a whole slot. ESPECIALLY when they eat up a further slot to buff their otherwise painfully useless 'capstone' skill. The -wood races are spec races, and should be on par with their power.
Am I missing how much each regen level is worth? I'm still really skeptical of a regen capstone, especially one with limited range. Compared to say... halve blackout, DOUBLE immunity (does this double immunity before halving duration?), irresistible movements once every 10 seconds, or passive affs. In the current meta (for which there aren't any indications of major upcoming change), damage bursting tends to eliminate targets before the effects of relatively subtle boosts to health or tankiness can really pull their weight.
It's similar to the old problem of greatly overvaluing non-universal dmp resistances: You have to resist a very wide number of types and your enemies will be able to choose their attacks (and boost them more easily) to skip around your racial resistances. Even in a 'flatter' dmp system, that will still be a problem: Even when numerically identical (20:20, or 1/8:1/8), the offensive boost to your damage type is better than a defensive boost to any one (or two, or three) types.
The change to -wood 2nd perk was due to the fact in the current modified system it didn't exist at all. So it was moved to a low perk tier, replacing resistances.
If there's an all around agreed consensus that said perks should be given as freebies, it'll get adjusted to tier 1 and made a bonus.
Should note, neither are set in stone, but poison breath and breathe fire are projected to have a 5% chance to fire, number adjustable for balance.
I find the lucidian demi ability to be terribly lackluster at best. Recommend the following:
Any attack aimed at a lucidian has a chance to fail due to the attacker being blinded by the lucidian's natural radiance. (also blinds attacker, up for discussion) Other lucidian are immune to the effect.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Dodge? No more dodge. It's bad enough that furrikin are going to get contort (wowza), we don't need more of the annoying bard/monk mechanics leaking out to the general populace.
Barktouch can stay (for flavor only) or go. Its purpose no longer makes any sense, as I mentioned. Nature curse for -woods has a cool flavor message that no one currently sees, it can make a full resurgence once -woods' stats don't make it useless.
The Perspective ability can actually be folded into AB WILDEWOOD WILDEWOOD (which is where Barktouch is right now). Druids get treebourne very early in the skillset, which functions much the same.
Should note, neither are set in stone, but poison breath and breathe fire are projected to have a 5% chance to fire, number adjustable for balance.
That's a lot lower than I thought it would be. I think it should be fine at that level (unless they're doing 2k damage or something). I do think asthma should be changed, due to the possibility of use with aeon being too frustrating. I suggest sickening as a replacement.
0
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Rofl at "small chance at a little extra damage OP, give my org passive racial dodge."
Rofl at "small chance at a little extra damage OP, give my org passive racial dodge."
What the what.
I was told to give a suggestion rather than just saying how something is strong/weak, so I did. Passive afflictions are still strong in my opinion, and passive power regen is laughable... but that's me.
EDIT: Of course, it can certainly be a "small chance for racial dodge" too. That wouldn't be op if it's small now, would it?
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
I agree asthma is far too powerful for a passive chance afflict on Viscanti, considering how much aeon spam goes on in Lusternia. You could literally just sit there with 2000 aeon/fool cards and throw them at your target while your friend goes to town on them. Perhaps something more in theme with Magnagora, a random plague affliction or perhaps something different entirely?
I'm not against the passive damage or attack, mind you, just the extra affliction.
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
0
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
5% chance at asthma when combined with aeon is an unrealistic scenario, if they want to stick aeon thru aren't going to be bashing you and praying to the RNG gods. Don't even get me started on how meaningless 5% chance for ablaze is.
To counter that with crazy dodge out of left field for your own org while making s big deal out of this 5% passive affliction nonsense is a little worrisome coming from an envoy.
5% chance at asthma when combined with aeon is an unrealistic scenario, if they want to stick aeon thru aren't going to be bashing you and praying to the RNG gods. Don't even get me started on how meaningless 5% chance for ablaze is.
To counter that with crazy dodge out of left field for your own org while making s big deal out of this 5% passive affliction nonsense is a little worrisome coming from an envoy.
It's not for my own org, it's for every lucidian. Just lucidian master race, everyone plays it and thus nobody gets dodge. Problem solved... It certainly has that flavour niceness... after all, lucidian are able to glow with different colors on demand, pretty much... so why not a dazzling rainbow display as a defensive measure when attacked?
You can't defend something as being 'only 5%' and then go on about how something else that would also be 'only 2-5%' is strong either. That goes both ways. Damage done should be plenty, if necessary give it a bit of a bump up for chance due to the removal of the affliction. Heck, dracnari get a bucket load out of their demi power as is... even without the random breathing of fire at targets. In an overhaul that seems to be aiming at affliction stacking, a free affliction can be anything but hurtful for the person afflicting with it.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
0
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
edited May 2015
Yes...yes I can. A 5% chance to fire on damage attacks only has the definitive limitation of how frequently you mash the button of the relevant skill and recover. A 5% defensive passive becomes more relevant as the number of people targeting you rises and is not limited by mechanics like equilibrium. Offensive is only useful when you can use it, the other is useful all the time.
It also depends on what 'attacks' means. Attacks can mean 'bashing attacks', or it can mean 'any attack that does damage', or it can mean 'any ability that targets another player'. A 5% chance to fire on a bashing attack is very different than a 5% chance to fire on every fae attack from a dracnari wiccan, or every demesne effect for a pyromancer.
Any direct attack that does damage, treat it as you would current offensive damage procs.
It won't be proccing on bleeds or passives such as melds. It's an ability that takes up the Dracnari/Viscanti's balance that deals damage to their victim.
Any direct attack that does damage, treat it as you would current offensive damage procs.
It won't be proccing on bleeds or passives such as melds. It's an ability that takes up the Dracnari/Viscanti's balance that deals damage to their victim.
So it takes up further balance from the original attack it procs from?
Any direct attack that does damage, treat it as you would current offensive damage procs.
It won't be proccing on bleeds or passives such as melds. It's an ability that takes up the Dracnari/Viscanti's balance that deals damage to their victim.
So it takes up further balance from the original attack it procs from?
No. That was just listing the criteria for what counts as an attack that can proc the racial.
The Orclach DMP scaling seems way too strong. That should be toned down. I think the 25/50/75% health levels seems more reasonable. Maybe even just 33% and 67%. Also potentially lowering it to be X/4. As it is they get access to huge uncapped DMP numbers. While the other races cap out at 4.
When you say "reduced balance from swimming," you mean "the actual swim command goes quicker," right? The delay on swimming isn't a balance delay, it actually takes a bit of time for the swim command to finish.
Other than that: Thank you so much for giving the org races something at level 3 aside from the specialization, and for tweaking the Fly / Dive abilities so that they still provide some bonus. I now feel that there aren't any inherent weaknesses in the design, so now it's all just down to number crunching and final cleanup. (Note that part of number-crunching is knowing what regeneration will be like, so we can tell if it's worthwhile, though I know you've said that you want to make it so!)
When you say "reduced balance from swimming," you mean "the actual swim command goes quicker," right? The delay on swimming isn't a balance delay, it actually takes a bit of time for the swim command to finish.
Other than that: Thank you so much for giving the org races something at level 3 aside from the specialization, and for tweaking the Fly / Dive abilities so that they still provide some bonus. I now feel that there aren't any inherent weaknesses in the design, so now it's all just down to number crunching and final cleanup. (Note that part of number-crunching is knowing what regeneration will be like, so we can tell if it's worthwhile, though I know you've said that you want to make it so!)
PS: I really want to see the demi-traits!
Edit: I mean the arty-traits, obviously.
I'd like to see the arti-traits too... although it's a really tricky situation. If demi-traits are balanced around the strength of arti-traits, things get a bit messy because then it becomes a 'buy the arti or have a sucky race' thing.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
The demigod and artifact traits are thematically and mechanically linked into each other, it's like a demigod perk + level. Tier four aren't designed to suck because they get amazing at tier 5. But they have a theme that remains because the tier 5 is designed on that same theme.
Some of the suggestions to improve tier 4 have been nixed because they are infact on the proposal for tier 5.
That said we won't be releasing details on those until the free to play perks have been resolved, we didn't want to distract from the overall objective of this public feedback pass.
And yes, swim speed, you understood what I meant, will change the writing for better clarification. Thanks!
Comments
We'll be going ahead with the four level system with a fifth unlocked by artifact, adding an extra tier leans itself to power creep, and racial homogenisation, there's only so many traits and abilities you can give out before everyone starts to feel the same.
While some players may feel dismayed that they've lost certain advantages, it should be compensated by a loss of debilitating vulnerabilities. While certain "master races" may feel like they've been nerfed, in that they no longer hold the edge over others, the general goal is that no matter what race you pick, you'll feel you're able to partake fairly in all aspects of Lusternia.
This is looking to be submitted and overlooked by Estarra for implementation soon, so any final suggestions would be appreciated quickly. At this point I'm looking for actual numbers, or modifications to perks, as opposed to voicing a dislike for something.
I still like my scent idea for finks better, but I'll accept the performance one. Especially in light of certain things revealed to me about Fininkora.
EDIT: Spreadsheet says viscanti poison breath deals fire damage. Hehe.
EDIT: Lucidian + trill level 50 ability gives a bonus to electrical/asphyx damage for aeromancers and aerochems, but aeromancers do not deal any asphyx damage. As such, this is not comparable to every other mage org spec.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Suggest let viscanti poison breath asthma be shruggable.
Bearhug is still silly, how about some weather ignorance, x/10 health buff or more influencing prowess?
I preferred the old wildewood/wyrdenwood demiperks. They didn't seem imbalanced to me.
The -wood demiperks have changed? They lost some (admittedly redundant) damage resistances (see below for why I say this) on the 25 slot to gain the Perspective ability, without which they can't climb into trees at all. This is a perk in that it is very hard to get a -wood down out of the trees when they're up there.... but perspective is NOT a free action, unlike CLIMB UP | CLING which also blocks the majority of knocking down attacks, and allows for way better tactical mobility - not to mention that you can notice when you're in the room of the -wood but on the wrong elevation, from their branches/trunk. Basically, it's a "perk" that comes pre-packaged with its own downsides: there shouldn't be a need to additionally eat up a whole slot. ESPECIALLY when they eat up a further slot to buff their otherwise painfully useless 'capstone' skill. The -wood races are spec races, and should be on par with their power.
It's similar to the old problem of greatly overvaluing non-universal dmp resistances: You have to resist a very wide number of types and your enemies will be able to choose their attacks (and boost them more easily) to skip around your racial resistances. Even in a 'flatter' dmp system, that will still be a problem: Even when numerically identical (20:20, or 1/8:1/8), the offensive boost to your damage type is better than a defensive boost to any one (or two, or three) types.
The change to -wood 2nd perk was due to the fact in the current modified system it didn't exist at all. So it was moved to a low perk tier, replacing resistances.
If there's an all around agreed consensus that said perks should be given as freebies, it'll get adjusted to tier 1 and made a bonus.
Should note, neither are set in stone, but poison breath and breathe fire are projected to have a 5% chance to fire, number adjustable for balance.
Any attack aimed at a lucidian has a chance to fail due to the attacker being blinded by the lucidian's natural radiance. (also blinds attacker, up for discussion) Other lucidian are immune to the effect.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
The Perspective ability can actually be folded into AB WILDEWOOD WILDEWOOD (which is where Barktouch is right now). Druids get treebourne very early in the skillset, which functions much the same.
What the what.
EDIT: Of course, it can certainly be a "small chance for racial dodge" too. That wouldn't be op if it's small now, would it?
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
To counter that with crazy dodge out of left field for your own org while making s big deal out of this 5% passive affliction nonsense is a little worrisome coming from an envoy.
You can't defend something as being 'only 5%' and then go on about how something else that would also be 'only 2-5%' is strong either. That goes both ways. Damage done should be plenty, if necessary give it a bit of a bump up for chance due to the removal of the affliction. Heck, dracnari get a bucket load out of their demi power as is... even without the random breathing of fire at targets. In an overhaul that seems to be aiming at affliction stacking, a free affliction can be anything but hurtful for the person afflicting with it.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Girl. Context is important.
It won't be proccing on bleeds or passives such as melds. It's an ability that takes up the Dracnari/Viscanti's balance that deals damage to their victim.
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
Other than that: Thank you so much for giving the org races something at level 3 aside from the specialization, and for tweaking the Fly / Dive abilities so that they still provide some bonus. I now feel that there aren't any inherent weaknesses in the design, so now it's all just down to number crunching and final cleanup. (Note that part of number-crunching is knowing what regeneration will be like, so we can tell if it's worthwhile, though I know you've said that you want to make it so!)
PS: I really want to see the demi-traits!
Edit: I mean the arty-traits, obviously.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Some of the suggestions to improve tier 4 have been nixed because they are infact on the proposal for tier 5.
That said we won't be releasing details on those until the free to play perks have been resolved, we didn't want to distract from the overall objective of this public feedback pass.
And yes, swim speed, you understood what I meant, will change the writing for better clarification. Thanks!
I missed the minor terrain regen added to the spec races.